[Primer] Boros Burn

[BiddingMaster]

Getting really fucking sick of UW. I was just elixir'd 5 times in three games. Also just lost to FSP. Guy didn't get the memo to run rams... tilting.... poor dragon got countered... guy just refused to tap out...

Any concrete advice on this matchup?

I want 4 eidolon and 4 firedrinker satyr and 3 chandra and 3 glare but 2 wear and tear is the status quo. my game plan is to force them to use detention spheres aggressively then drop chandra and then wear and tear a sphere. its really hard without eidolon and firedrinker plus some other whammy be it dragons/chandra/toil//trouble. also not drawing a brace of chandra's phoenix is a good way to seal the deal. personally I prefer glare to wear and tear because it cant hit fiendslayer paladin/
ram and detention sphere and i dont feel like it is worth it enough to have an instant speed enchantment removal. also any time they drop elixir its ridiculously hard to beat them but if they cant d sphere a chandra or you have an anwer to a detention sphere than it evens out. chandra imo is one of the best sideboard cards we have.

[BiddingMaster]

Dropped from FNM. Lost to mono black in the third game because mull to 5 into 2x toughtseize is GG. I know that one is just variance, but I actually can't remember the last time I beat UW in a real event. Give me some advice please guys. How / what are you boarding?

how well we do vs mono black is how and why are we keeping our opening hands. ive come to the conclusion that if i cant kill a turn 2 critter then i pitch it immediately regardless on whether I know what the opponent is playing. I like chandra and yp/eidolon. I know some people are running no yps and running firedrinkers so firedrinkers/eidolon is a good combo as well but you really need some inevitability like chandra because its really hard to win if you cant draw a phoenix so
having more cards that they have to deal with or die is good for your sideboard. All i know is that I am not leaving the house without three chandra in my sideboard.

[BiddingMaster]

From some of the comments I've read by Purp, Dauntless, and Val, my assumptions on Eidolon are seemingly justified, though I haven't really voiced much of them. I've only played 9 matches with Eidolon (hey, don't judge me! I'm coming back from a 6 week hiatus and I've been dealing with some life problems such as dead vehicle, pulled teeth, and the joys [and pitfalls] of prescription painkillers ), but those games and the major theory crafting/debating/gollum-ing I'v done with myself has made me realize a few things about our favorite little bear.

Eidolon of the Great Revel is actually a skill intensive card to play with. I say this because it's quite easy to
dig a hole that you can't climb out of with this guy. I did it in my very first match with him, and so did Purp (if anyone bothered to read his States report). The skill lies in knowing when to ride his ability to a win and when to 'throw him away.' He's an aggressive creature through and through. The opponents know this, and that's why they can make some crazy mistakes, such as throwing mutavaults away to chump him. He changes the entire sequencing of your spells - do you run the bear out and take 2 damage to Searing Blood a creature next turn, thereby putting you 'ahead' in life totals and clearing room for an attack? Or do you burn first and ride the Eidolon out for some potentially additional damage either by attacking or baiting a removal spell that shocks the opponent? Do you try to run 2 out and build your hand up with more burn so you can suicide attack/block and then unload on your opponent?

Position is very important with Pillar Bear. We can't help our position in Game 1 - we either win
the dice roll or not. But the fact remains that maindecking him gives us an edge Game 1 against Control, and when we're in a bad matchup with him Game 1 versus, say, Monsters we are fully prepared with a sideboard to turn that around. I played some games against Mono Black and B/g and I enjoyed the Eidolon while on the play, but I boarded him out while on the draw. My position in each game determined when he'll be at his best. Realizing that lets you use him more effectively.

I know it was mentioned before that YP$ is better in an unknown meta, while Eidolon is better in a known meta. But at the end of the day, choosing to go with the Eidolon maindecked will test your skill of metagaming too. That's big. Looking back on the last two little tournaments I played in (FNM and MNM), I'd say I was correct in playing Pillar Bear at my usual stomping grounds on Friday, but I was an idiot for maindecking him going to a store on Monday that I play at once every 3 or 4 months. Now, will I play the Eidolon
tonight? Most likely, since I do predict that most of the same decks and players will still be there and I'll take any little edge that I can get.

I'm pretty sure that there are some points that eluded me now that I've put most of this out in text for you guys to read, but I think I've delivered the gist of it. On the surface, Eidolon may seem like it's favored by the people that want to interact the least, but I think there's actually a bigger picture to see. I think the more skilled players will be able to be more successful when playing around his "drawback." Just like with Young Pyromancer, I think that playing with Eidolon will force you to make some difficult choices, but the choices you'll have to make are just different ones. The decision trees you'll have to mull over with YP$ are going to be completely different, or even opposite, to what you'll have to decide with the Eidolon.

I feel like the paper metagame makes yp weaker because there are far less mono
blue devotion/aggro/aggrois-midrange. Personally for a paper meta i cut shocks in favor of having yp+eidolon. Shock is just wonderfully mediocre unless you epxect to see small aggro like humans/mono blue/rdw/red devotion. Even against mono green shock is good and I like it is vs green white aggro. I feel like shock is a very narrow card for what I have seen in the paper meta but it has shown to be game breaking with the online meta. I ran eidolon through the online gauntlet of a few daily events and found that without yp to back him up he puts you in a spot where you have to draw exceptionally well to win. I tried my list where i had three eidolon in my main with 4 yp and i still didnt like it because I have seen a resurgence of mono blue/mono green/red devotion/mirror lately and the reason I pushed for eidolon was that I was playing almost exclusively midrange and control decks. Modo is a different animal nowadays from what I have seen. I want to try and split between two eidolon and two satyr firedancer
personally and have the othe 2/2 split in the sideboard in favor of cutting mortars for the online meta.

[Nezeru]

Won FNM today. Will keep this short because I have a major chess tournament tomorrow:

Match 1: 2-0 vs GB Dredge. Eidolon of the Great Revel allowed me to kill him turn 4 on the play.
Match 2: 2-0 vs MonoU Devotion. Game 1 Eidolon helped me win, I burned his guys and killed him slowly. Game 2 I let him get 5 devotion for Thassa so I could Chain it, then won off of the back of Satyr Firedancer.
Match 3: 2-0 vs GW Enchantress. Game 1 he played Courser of Kruphix and Primeval Bounty...and lost. Game 2 he played Archangel of Thune and Ajani, Mentor of Heroes...and lost.
Match 4: 2-0 vs Brw midrange with Gray Merchant. Game 1 I won easily from 18 life. Eidolon helped here too. Game 2 I mulliganed two no-landers to a 5-card one-lander with a Mountain, Boros Charm, Skullcrack, Phoenix, Shock. He t1 Thoughtseized my Boros Charm, I drew two Mountains and started applying pressure with the Phoenix. The turn I cast the
Phoenix he Rakdos's Returned my hand of two cards. I proceeded to draw my other three Phoenixes and all white spells and won through his board of Desecration Demon, 2x Sin Collector, Rakdos Keyrune after he killed all four of my Phoenixes. The key turn was when he got me to 4 life and I had one card in hand and three tapped Mountains. He was at 3 life. At this point my outs were any untapped white source (hand card was Warleader's Helix, which he didn't know) or any 3+ damage burn spell including Searing Blood (but not Boros Charm or Warleader's Helix). He decided to Thoughtseize my Helix, changing my outs to any burn spell except Boros Charm or Helix. It turns out I got 6 more outs from his Thoughtseize (2 Shock, 4 Magma Jet) and lost 6 outs (4 Sacred Foundry, 2 Mana Confluence) so it didn't matter whether he played it or not in theory (but my topdeck was a lethal Magma Jet). However, he had missed a chance to attack with his Demon, which I would block and go to 2, reducing my outs by 4 Sacred Foundry,
and I would have lost if he did that line(which was strictly better than what he did as I had zero hasty creatures left in the deck, and certainly no 3-power ones) or if he didn't Thoughtseize. However, it was funny to mulligan to 5, never hit white mana, and still win.

[LaZerBurn]

I watched it. I think I just drew badly. I'll get over it.

Your mindset has shifted so dramatically over the last few months it is inspirational!

[HK1997]

@MDU: I've noticed your videos are exclusively single eliminations... Why? Is the EV for SEs higher than Dailies? Or do you have such a high win ratio, you'd rather play 2 SE's in the time it takes to play one Daily? Or do you not record your daily events? Or is it a meta choice? Play style? Tell me!!!

@Biddingmaster: Thanks for the detailed report mate!

@Nezeru: Congrats!

@Everyone else: I find UW/Esper control to be quite tough indeed, also when sideboarding. Ive run into the same Esper Control matchup as MDU in his last video, and post board you suddenly face down FSPs, BBV, Obzedats and Angels with zero chains and mortars boarded in.
The biggest problem with playing vs. Control is that you cant play around EVERYTHING they MIGHT have. Because if they have everything you are afraid of, you are dead and cant win anyways. If you
had a slow start and no threat to pressure him, youll have to do it the old fashioned way of burning him out. Test the waters, throw a LS here or there to see if you can bait out a dissolve. We have a number of draws and opening hands plus a stacked SB for this MU and it isnt the hardest imo, BW midrange is my Everest. Dont ever tap out when they have reached 6 Mana (rev for 3). Depending on the game state you just might have to let your oppenent have his lifegain from revel for 2 or 3, because skullcracking would tap you out on your end step, giving him free reign to cast another rev or whatever without interference. This is where I get into bad waters. The situations of: "If he has another, then this play is bad, if he doesn't, then it is good." A lot of coin flips about wether he has IT (insert dissolve, dispell, negate, syncopade, rev here) or not.

[Elricity]

@MDU: I've noticed your videos are exclusively single eliminations... Why? Is the EV for SEs higher than Dailies? Or do you have such a high win ratio, you'd rather play 2 SE's in the time it takes to play one Daily? Or do you not record your daily events? Or is it a meta choice? Play style? Tell me!!!

He's grinding qualifier points and it's faster doing that in SE than DE.

[magicdownunder]

@MDU: I've noticed your videos are exclusively single eliminations... Why? Is the EV for SEs higher than Dailies? Or do you have such a high win ratio, you'd rather play 2 SE's in the time it takes to play one Daily? Or do you not record your daily events? Or is it a meta choice? Play style? Tell me!!!

He's grinding qualifier points and it's faster doing that in SE than DE.

Spot on

DE's are better though (which i'm sure you know HK1997 since you play both), I'll def. recommend them over SE if you have the time.

[Infermofperpus]

Hi guys, just new here but been reading for a while. Lots of good info here.

I've been playing the RW Burn now and had a fair bit of success in FNM. Recently though due me winning a fair bit a lot of decks are now running BVB, 4 x Nyx Fleece Ram, FSP and sometime Obzedat. I can deal with say 1 of these, but recently played an Esper control who ran 4 ram sideboard and got them all in play by turn 9... Then dropped a blood baron the seal the deal. The Ram is proving a big issue in multiples as it blocks all out ground troopers leaving them with only Phoenix to deal with. It's difficult to run chain due to d sphere and banishing light... I'm feeling it my time to change decks. Life gain just wrecks it and you only have so many skullcracks.

Cheers.

[dauntless268]

@ control haters:

I'd suggest BL. I don't exactly love the card but it's the one catch all you can bring in against control g2 that doesn't care whether they bring in FSP, Ram or Angel while never a dead card.

I' m also considering a singleton Hammer in place of a T/T, but would only recommend it if you run 24 lands post board

[HK1997]

[quote="Infermofperpus » Sat May 24, 2014 10:23 am"]Hi guys, just new here but been reading for a while. Lots of good info here.

I've been playing the RW Burn now and had a fair bit of success in FNM. Recently though due me winning a fair bit a lot of decks are now running BVB, 4 x Nyx Fleece Ram, FSP and sometime Obzedat. I can deal with say 1 of these, but recently played an Esper control who ran 4 ram sideboard and got them all in play by turn 9... Then dropped a blood baron the seal the deal. The Ram is proving a big issue in multiples as it blocks all out ground troopers leaving them with only Phoenix to deal with. It's difficult to run chain due to d sphere and banishing light... I'm feeling it my time to change decks. Life gain just wrecks it and you only have so many skullcracks.

Cheers.[/
quote]

What are you bringing in vs Control?
If your local store has been infected with that Esper Control to Midrange morph, you could take a look at Zem's last post for paper, running Erebos to prevent all lifegain.
If it is just a few and you dont want to change everything, I believe in diversifying my answers and racing. BBV requires Mizziums or two burn spells, Obzedat requires 2 burn spells or reprisal or fated, FSP requires chains, BL or anger or two blockers, Ram requires fated, wear/tear, chains or BL. If you try to be safe against all threats, you wont have any burn spells left in your 75. I personally find Obzedat to be the toughest beast of all to deal with, but two thirds of the time, the control players life total should be in killing range, that a single skullcrack is enough to close out the game. I suggest playing this matchup G2 post board, like any BW midrange. He isnt running a lot of counters, besides dissolve and syncopade, if he is that creature heavy. Ignore his board, if
you dont happen to have the right answer in hand and try to race it, saving skullcrack for lifegains bigger than 2-3, while keeping ram lifegain in check with phoenixes and maybe even tokens. Chandra helps a lot to attack thru those sheep.
If you find racing them does not work out for you, my last resort would be to bring in 4 of satyr firedancers. It can target ALL of the above threats. Back it up with some W/Ts or glares or deicides or BLs to free him or chandra and her pheonix from detention spheres. T/T is still one of the most devestating active spells you can board in.
If my meta was so BW heavy, Id definitely run Dancers since it stops you from having the difficult choice of trying to control his board or go to the face. Hope this helps.

Biddingmaster and I were in a couple of dailies together yesterday and the first one I lost 2 out of 4 rounds. The matchups were.... BW midrange, BWmidrange, MonoU and Dredge. I was totally unprepared for this with only 1 fated and 1 reprisal in the sideboard.
First BW match I won due to godly draws, being able to T5 kill twice in a row. The second was the burn mages nightmare. Both players had T5 Obzedat in all 5 games (how do they do that with only 2 of?), just in the second round I flooded like a landlord two games and he curved out twice with FSPs, BBV and 2x Obzedat. There is nothing you realistically can do when your opponent has that kind of a nut draw. But remember this: that goes for ANY MU. The daily after that, I went 3-1, dropping the first round 2-0 against RDW - one of our easiest matchups and basically a bye. Nothing you can do, when one T3 there are 6 creatures out and you just happen to not have 6x removals with the avaiable mana to control the aggro.

[Infermofperpus]

Thanks HK. advice is appreciated.

For my board I go:
+ 3 Mortars
- 3 Searing Blood
+ 2 Toil/Trouble
- 2 shock
+ 1 Erebos
- 1 Chains

One loss today was against WBG. First game he got T3 Big D, T4 Obzedat, T5 Blood Baron. And pretty much repeated that against me game 3.

Against Esper he got both of his two blood barons out and had two dissolves in hand to counter my two mortars. I played Erebos, but he D-Sphered it his next turn.... Just hate it when they have the answer for everything. One game he had four rams out by turn 9. I usually get him down to kill range but then I just top deck lands and he climbs back up.

Think I need to run wear/tear, glare, and mortars in the SB. Don't like BL ATM due to BL itself, golgari charm, and D Sphere.

Btw my list is rather standard set up, running two shocks and three Searing Blood and two chained and one BL main. everything else is standard.

[magicdownunder]

From some of the comments I've read by Purp, Dauntless, and Val, my assumptions on Eidolon are seemingly justified, though I haven't really voiced much of them. I've only played 9 matches with Eidolon (hey, don't judge me! I'm coming back from a 6 week hiatus and I've been dealing with some life problems such as dead vehicle, pulled teeth, and the joys [and pitfalls] of prescription painkillers ), but those games and the major theory crafting/debating/gollum-ing I'v done with myself has made me realize a few things about our favorite little bear.

Eidolon of the Great Revel is actually a skill intensive card to play with. I say this because it's quite easy to
dig a hole that you can't climb out of with this guy. I did it in my very first match with him, and so did Purp (if anyone bothered to read his States report). The skill lies in knowing when to ride his ability to a win and when to 'throw him away.' He's an aggressive creature through and through. The opponents know this, and that's why they can make some crazy mistakes, such as throwing mutavaults away to chump him. He changes the entire sequencing of your spells - do you run the bear out and take 2 damage to Searing Blood a creature next turn, thereby putting you 'ahead' in life totals and clearing room for an attack? Or do you burn first and ride the Eidolon out for some potentially additional damage either by attacking or baiting a removal spell that shocks the opponent? Do you try to run 2 out and build your hand up with more burn so you can suicide attack/block and then unload on your opponent?

Position is very important with Pillar Bear. We can't help our position in Game 1 - we either win
the dice roll or not. But the fact remains that maindecking him gives us an edge Game 1 against Control, and when we're in a bad matchup with him Game 1 versus, say, Monsters we are fully prepared with a sideboard to turn that around. I played some games against Mono Black and B/g and I enjoyed the Eidolon while on the play, but I boarded him out while on the draw. My position in each game determined when he'll be at his best. Realizing that lets you use him more effectively.

I know it was mentioned before that YP$ is better in an unknown meta, while Eidolon is better in a known meta. But at the end of the day, choosing to go with the Eidolon maindecked will test your skill of metagaming too. That's big. Looking back on the last two little tournaments I played in (FNM and MNM), I'd say I was correct in playing Pillar Bear at my usual stomping grounds on Friday, but I was an idiot for maindecking him going to a store on Monday that I play at once every 3 or 4 months. Now, will I play the Eidolon
tonight? Most likely, since I do predict that most of the same decks and players will still be there and I'll take any little edge that I can get.

I'm pretty sure that there are some points that eluded me now that I've put most of this out in text for you guys to read, but I think I've delivered the gist of it. On the surface, Eidolon may seem like it's favored by the people that want to interact the least, but I think there's actually a bigger picture to see. I think the more skilled players will be able to be more successful when playing around his "drawback." Just like with Young Pyromancer, I think that playing with Eidolon will force you to make some difficult choices, but the choices you'll have to make are just different ones. The decision trees you'll have to mull over with YP$ are going to be completely different, or even opposite, to what you'll have to decide with the Eidolon.

I hope more people read this post because its great

@Infermofperpus: BWG aka Junk is a very hard MU, Elricity suggested running Eidolon of the Great Revel since this is one of those MUS where your odds of losing increases dramatically every turn - I'll take that a step further and suggest running Dictate of the Twin Gods as well.

@HK1997: Your contribution too the thread so far has been fantastic, keep up the good work (p.s. have you tried Flames of the Firebrand over Anger vs Wx and Bx? it just seems better)

@Purp: I know you've been testing Dictate of the Twin Gods before, what are your current thoughts on it? Janky or possible amazing anti-Junk, Control and Bx tech?

@All: I'm finally free next week (Mon-Fri vids will return next next week) so I'm really
glad about these reports and debates since it keeps me in the loop for my return

[HK1997]

Thanks for the kind words MDU! The great posts, advice and contributions of others are inspiring and I hope that I'm doing them justice. Yeah that post by Khaos is fantastic!

Ive actually been running flames instead of searing blood for a month until JOU came out. I was always happy with it and it is definitely better than anger of the gods, despite not being able to target FSP. Flames is a downright legitimate replacement for searing blood from my own play experience. It's clunky and slow but so versatile, it's worth it. Just right now with so many targets for searing blood, I dont want to give up the 3 dmg to face for the chance of a 2 or 3 for 1. If I can figure out a way to play both searing blood and flames, I'll post the deck if it is successful. I like the idea to have more BURN in the SB. How much does our playstyle change, if we have 8-12 additional burn spells in the SB to bring, instead of the reactive
cards.... going to have to think on that.

And to be quite honest, playing anger was a lot of fun, and at times very very useful. Mostly for the MonoU matchup, which used to be very tough for me pre JOU, for some reason. Post JOU I have yet to loose against MonoU.... I dont know what happened to that deck, but for some reason its not beating burn anymore, like it used to. So anger of the Gods is out for me again, until I consistently face multiple FSPs on the board or when Naya Hexproof has it's two weeks of fame again.

[Lightning_Dolt]

How many black sources do we need for erebos?

[BiddingMaster]

How many black sources do we need for erebos?

4 seems to work fine for me. i never want for a black source.

[zenbitz]

That... is not mathematically sound.

[BiddingMaster]

[deck]creatures
4 young pyromancer
4 chandra's phoenix

instant/sorcery
4 boros charm
3 searing blood
3 shock
4 skullcrack
4 warleader's helix
4 lightning strike
4 magma jet

enchantments
3 chained to the rocks

lands
4 sacred foundry
4 temple of triumph
1 temple of malice
1 temple of silence
8 mountain
3 mutavault
2 boros guildgate

sideboard
4 satyr firedancer
3 wear//tear
3 chandra, pyromaster
4 eidolon of the great revel
1 chained to the rocks[/deck]

as far as my last test deck it is pretty bad for the online meta. If you are going to a big paper tournament i suggest giving that version some testing and its what im going to run if I go to one again. the next change is im going down one eidolon in the main and run an addition searing blood. For this iteration of my test deck im trying to see if satyr firedancer is better than mortars. I still think mortars would be better in this list
but I think satyr deserves some testing alongside young pyro. If anyone wants a sideboard guide just pm me. I check the forum daily if not every 2-3 days.

[BiddingMaster]

That... is not mathematically sound.

well im not a math aficionado so I dont know the exact % of drawing a black source for one black card in our deck. Yes I know tt has a black side but I never not been able to cast toil with 4 black sources of mana. From my personal experince I have only had one time where I really needed to have black source and didnt when I needed.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Looking at the tables, 5 gives us 61%.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'd like 6... but can we get away with 6 mountains and four foundries plus chains? Is ten mountains enough for chained?

[Lightning_Dolt]

6 mountains plus 4 foudry gives us 74% change on turn one and it goes up from there...

So:

[deck]4 sacred foundry
4 temple of triumph
2 temple of silence
2 temple of malice
2 mana confluence
3 mutavault
6 mountain[/deck]

Too greedy? Feedback?

[dauntless268]

6 mountains plus 4 foudry gives us 74% change on turn one and it goes up from there...

So:

[deck]4 sacred foundry
4 temple of triumph
2 temple of silence
2 temple of malice
2 mana confluence
3 mutavault
6 mountain[/deck]

Too greedy? Feedback?

Yes, I think so, Keith. Technically, you need 20 red sources and 13 untapped sources for t2 Eidolon (you have 18 and 12, respectively). Eidolon on t3 is not where you want to be IMO.

I would go at the very least -1 Temple of Silence +1 Temple of Malice if you REALLY want to have 6 Black Mana, otherwise -1 ToS +1 Mountain. All assuming you insist on Erebos, which in my opinion is a pretty weak argument for destroying our manabase.

I used to run a lot of scry last season, but aggro was
completely absent then, now you may want to cast that shock on t1...

For reference, my 23 land manabase is

[deck]
4 sacred foundry
4 temple of triumph
1 temple of silence
1 temple of malice
2 mana confluence
3 mutavault
8 mountain[/deck]

[Khaospawn]

Gonna take this to a Game Day tonight:

[Deck]
Creature 8
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells 29
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Shock
3 Searing Blood
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Land 23
3 Mutavault
2 Mana Confluence
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
10 Mountain

Sideboard 15
3 Satyr Firedancer
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Blind Obedience
2 Spark Trooper
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
[/DECK]

Bringing it back old school. Why? Cuz, fuck it. That's why.

[NotARobot]

Hey guys! Just wanna say thanks so much for all the discussion here, helped me immensely! I went 7-1 to be the game day champ at my LGS. Didn't win much but the playmat and a bunch of packs, but it feels really good to be winning an event for once!

I ran this list:

[deck]
Creature 8
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells 29
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Shock
3 Searing Blood
4 Boros Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Land 23
3 Mutavault
1 Mana Confluence
1 Boros Guildgate
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
8 Mountain

Sideboard 15
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Chained to the Rocks
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Toil // Trouble
1 Reprisal
1 Wear // Tear
2 Anger of the Gods
[/deck]

Basically MDU's list. Took down monob devotion, jund, monsters, monob agro, monou, and naya hexproof (was shitting myself during this
entire round lol) and a few brews. I will never take out yps from the main again, they were just insane value today. So good luck to the rest of you and thanks so much for helping me learn

[LaZerBurn]

Well done NaR!

[dauntless268]

So... Khaos is playing "Retro Burn" tonight... awesome man, I admire your flexibility!

On the same lines, and not really knowing which list I prefer at the moment I managed to 3-0 two SEs tonight, with 2 different builds :

[Deck= SE1: Spark Burn 25 May]
Creatures 10
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Spark Trooper

Spells 26
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix

Land 24
3 Mutavault
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Malice
1 Boros Guildgate
2 Mana Confluence
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
8 Mountain

Sideboard 15
4 Satyr Firedancer
3 Toil/Trouble
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Banishing Light
1 Mizzium
Mortars
1 Hammer of Purphorous
[/DECK]

Matchups were Grixis Devotion (2-0), Esper Control (2-1), Junk Reanimator (2-0)

and then

[Deck= SE2: Good Ol' YP Burn 25 May]
Creatures 8
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells 29
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Shock
2 Searing Blood
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix

Land 23
3 Mutavault
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Malice
2 Mana Confluence
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
8 Mountain

Sideboard 15
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Toil/Trouble
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Banishing Light
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Hammer of Purphorous
1 Spark Trooper
[/DECK]

This time around I had Flamespeaker RDW (2-1), BG Midrange (2-1), RW Devotion (2-1)

I got my 15 QPs with this, unfortunately I still can't say with absolute certainty which version I like better, but here's a few thoughts that let me lean towards the second list:

Vs. B and especially BG
Devo, I like YP better g1, as it provides you another out to the Demon mess if your CttR gets Thoughtseized or Abrupt Decayed. Spark Trooper is more difficult to use here than I originally thought, because if I play it in response to Demon or Gray Merchant, it acts as a slightly overpriced removal spell that gains you life

Vs. BW Control, I do like Spark Trooper against Obzedat. You do have to be able to kill BB, though - so Spark Trooper is better out of the Side than which is better after SB when you have access to MM.

The combination of Eidolon MD and Satyr Firedancer SB is really a double Hit and Miss. The intensity is nice , but Variance is definitely higher here. In the YP build, I'm don't think I need 4 Eidolons side, as I feel quite comfortable keeping all 4 YP in post SB vs. both UW / Esper Control and Black Devo. This gives me the room in the SB
I was missing in my previous iterations of the YP deck.

Last but, not least, I did read Khaospawns excellent post. Applying his "unknown meta" argument to MTGO (just look at the variety of decks I played today!), YP may just be the safer choice online

[Toddington]

@dauntless268

Spark Burn makes me a bit hot under the collar.

[LaZerBurn]

@ dauntless - Well done again!

I like -2 Eidolon + 2 Chandra

I'm still happy with GG over MC for mana otherwise I'm the same MD.

Rest of the SB is currently -1 BL, -1 Hammer, -1 Spark for +1 Reprisal +1 Wear (am dropping this) +1 T//T (I like 4 especially with 2 Eidolon though maybe 3/3 would work though) I need to tweak this and redo my SB plan though

I read Khaos's post too - was excellent. The thread is great again right now I enjoyed MJ and Ari playing Burn personally and look forward to your vids returning MDU. If I can find the time to play I'll do some more too - I could do with the feedback!

[dpaine88]

Won Game Day today with a modified list of Zem's most recent Toil/Trouble build.

Ran this

[deck] 1st place at Game Day[/deck]

Just 10 people but all running Tier 1/2 decks mostly midrange
and control, hence why I brought Zem's latest.

We did 4 rounds and winner take it- I went 4-0.

Round 1 - U/W/R control - Won in a very close game 3 after he countered 2 early T/T's game 1.

Round 2 - Esper Aggro - Satyr Firedancer - nuff said.

Round 3 - Naya Control - Easy games... not enough threats on his part. Got to T/T three turns in a row for 6 each...feels good man.

Round 4 - Junk Midrange -- came down to wire game 3 ---after a game 2 loss where he opened with Duress x2 and Thoughtseize. I pulled it out though on the back of Skullcrack.


Loved this version of the deck. T/T is sweet.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Guess who finished second for the 4th Game Day in a row? So fucking salty. I am never going to get one of those fucking play mats.

Ended up playing:


[deck] Dega Burn by Lightning_Dolt 2nd place at Game Day[/deck]

Played:

R1: Izzet Blitz (2-1)
R2: UW Control (0-2)
R3: Naya Hexproof (0-2)
R4: RW Burn (2-0)
R5: RW Burn (
2-1)

Top 8: Esper Control (2-1)
Top 4: GW Aggro (2-1)
Finals: UW Control (guy from play night, and round 2) (1-2)

I just cannot beat UW. The deck feels well tuned, but I just can't beat Fiendslayer Paladin, Counters and a million Orings. I am, 0-6 vs UW in paper. Seriously. Help.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I never had issues casting Erebos with this mana base. Did have issues with him getting o-ringed as I was about to win the finals. So salty.

[dpaine88]

Thoughts on YP vs EotGR?

[Lightning_Dolt]

I wish I had EGR Main in 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7.

[Lightning_Dolt]

At risk of coming across like a troll, I actually think YP$ is a lot easier to play with

[Lightning_Dolt]

I like MDU's setup with both though...

[dpaine88]

I personally didn't really miss him. T/T was amazing.

Running 4 shocks and then the FireDancers in the board shore up the aggro matchup that T/T is a little weak to.

Regularly hit for 4-6 damage.

One game I hit for 6 three turns in a row.

Would certainly help you beat U/W...


Also I was running EotGR in the sideboard over Firedrinker Satyr.

[naranja]

Made Top 8 at GameDay with this list

[deck]BURN (26)
3 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Skullcrack

REMOVAL (3)
1 Banishing Light
2 Chained to the Rocks

CREATURES (8)
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

LAND (23)
8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
2 Mana Confluence
3 Mutavault

SIDEBOARD
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Banishing Light
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Satyr Firedancer
4 Toil // Trouble
2 Wear // Tear
[/deck]

I felt uneasy about sideboard going in but I expected a fair bit of aggro at the LGS and control as well. Not many seem to play the Junk deck variants. I with with [card]Toil // Trouble[/card] over Firedrinker Satyr because control players here like to play Nyx-fleece Ram in sideboard. I debated [
card]Chandra, Pyromaster[/card] but couldn't find a home.

Still not 100% happy with the SB here and want to do more significant work.

Round 1: GR Aggro (Lose 0-2)

---

Opponent had a variant I had not played against much, with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and both incarnations of Xenagos. Game 1 he just got ahead very quickly and I couldn't catch up. Game 2 I had a nice board state going but didn't have mana up for Boros Charm and got swept away by Mizzium Mortars cast by opponent. The game dragged on for a very long time with me at 1 life and stalling ( drawing 5 of the 6 exile effects I had in ) but I eventually lost. Not how I wanted to start my day!

Sideboard:
-3 Shock
-3 Searing Blood
-3 Skullcrack
+2 [card]
Anger of the Gods[/card]
+2 Mizzium Mortars
+3 Satyr Firedancer
+2 Banishing Light

I worry about being too reactive here, but the opponent had so few small targets that I just wanted to upgrade for power. Problem is, SFD is poorly positioned when I remove 9 burn spells. On the other hand, those were often useless or underperforming in hand vs Polukranos, Xenagos, Mistcutter Hydra, and of course the dreaded Courser. I chalked it up to a tough matchup and moved on.

Round 2: WB Midrange (Win 2-0)

---

Not exactly sure what this build was, but I won pretty easily. Opponent was less experienced with the matchup (for example running a Turn 2 Pack Rat into my burn spell).

Sideboard:
-3 Shock
-3 Searing Blood
+2 [card:
3eb3ah7t]Anger of the Gods[/card]
+2 [card]Wear // Tear[/card]
+2 Banishing Light

I boarded out the shock and searing blood expecting opponent to board out the targets because he was so owned by Searing Blood in G1. I think I was right as opponent never played a Pack Rat or other small target in G2. I kept in Anger just in case I was wrong.

Round 3: UWR control (Win 2-1)

---

This opponent was experienced but a little rusty and said he had borrowed his friend's deck. He made a few misplays that gave me openings which I could exploit. YP tokens were very handy here.

Sideboard:
-3 Shock
-3 Searing Blood
-2 Chained to the Rocks
+2 Banishing Light
+2 [card]Wear // Tear[/card]
+4 [card]Toil // Trouble[/
card]

My logic on the Chained/Banishing Light swap is that he wasn't playing creatures, but had other threats on board like Keranos, Elixir, and Planeswalkers so BL would be very unlikely to be dead in hand while Chained almost certainly was. I never drew a Toil // Trouble in opening hand so it ended up being an undervalued card when I drew it later.

Round 4: BW Humans (Win 2-1)

---

I got mana screwed in Game 1, being stuck on 2 mountains 5 turns. I ended up being 1 turn away from the win when opponent attacked for lethal. I won the next two thanks to Anger of the Gods. The SFD never came into play in either post-board game, but I was able to tune the strategy better.

Sideboard:
-4 Young Pyromancer
-3 Skullcrack
-2 Chained to the Rocks
+2 [card]Anger of the Gods[/card:
3eb3ah7t]
+2 Mizzium Mortars
+2 Banishing Light
+3 Satyr Firedancer

Anger was amazing here and I was happy I ran it expecting to see Aggro matchups. In one game I drew it in opener and prayed my opponent sided out Thoughtseize (I assume he did because I never saw it in G2 or G3). I patiently waited for opponent to empty his hand and he obliged, including dumping Fiendslayer Paladin on board next to 4 other creatures. Anger was a total blowout here as expected as it also blanked the Athreos, God of Passage and Xathrid Necromancer triggers. After that I dropped my second Phoenix and that was that.

I was happy with how I approached the game post-board. Keep the board manageable early before Athreos, God of Passage lands, be happy to trade creatures when I can with Phoenix, and YP
was a stud. Play around Brave the Elements in opponent's hand at all times. By turn 5 opponent is almost out of cards so now I can burn away especially if I land Anger. Eventually win with Phoenix and Mutavault backed by burn to the face. Helix was super powerful here as it buys a turn each time I cast but brings opponent 1 turn closer to death, effectively 2 turn swing.

Round 5: Bant control (Win 2-0)

---

Opponent was a teenager I have played before (I recall him Kiora-ing me to death several weeks ago). Struck me as smart and creative, if new to the game. Said he had been playing since Gatecrash.

Sideboard:
-3 Shock
-3 Searing Blood
-2 Chained to the Rocks
+4 [card]Toil // Trouble[/card]
+2 [card]Wear // Tear[/card]
+2 [card]
Banishing Light[/card]

In Game 2 I started with Mountain, Temple of Triumph, Toil // Trouble, Wear // Tear, Magma Jet, Skullcrack, and something I forget. My plan was to scry my way to land no matter what so that I could cast T/T on turn 3. The plan was disrupted when opponent played Elixir of Immortality on Turn 2. I stopped everything and used Wear to destroy it knowing I may never have a chance at it. That decision cost me the ability to cast T/T for anything more than 4 for the rest of the match. I ended up winning a grindy game, and I think it was the right call, but I was sad that I had to give up my dream of Trouble for 6

I was amused when opponent told me after match that he sideboarded out Worst Fears. Amazing that he runs that card as a splash in his deck!

Round 6 BW humans (Win 2-1)

---

This match was win and in to top 8. I realized that it also likely meant top seed since everyone else at the top table was taking intentional draws, leaving a win with the most points.

Game 1 I made a big mistake in not burning Imposing Sovereign on turn 3 when I could. Instead I tried to land Phoenix tapped and go for value with YP on turn 4. That cost me the match as by the next turn I was far behind, and the YP and tokens always came in tapped and I could never get anywhere. Lesson learned.

In Game 2 both of us mulliganed to 5. Surprisngly the match turned out interesting and I won a close game. A key play ended up being when I had Phoenix and Satyr Firedancer on board and no burn in hand other than Anger. Since I couldn't get the SFD engine rolling I knew I had to cast Anger or I was gonna be toast in two turns. So I attacked with both pretending to forget about opponent's Mutavault - it looked like I wanted to chump into Boros Elite,
or sneak him by the elite. Opponent activated vault and blocked. Cool. I cast Anger after combat and wiped the vault and the rest of the board away. I won a few turns later with my own vault and a second phoenix waiting in the wings.

In Game 3 it was super close but again Anger wiped the board. The opponent did not play Athreos so I never had to worry about that. Instead I just got him with mutavaults and phoenix and burn. He was upset he lost the match.

Sideboard:
-4 Young Pyromancer
-3 Skullcrack
-2 Chained to the Rocks
+2 Anger of the Gods
+2 Mizzium Mortars
+2 Banishing Light
+3 Satyr Firedancer

Same sideboard plan here as before. Go all-in on the SFD plan and board sweeping, and swap Chained for Banishing as an all purpose answer (I wasn't
sure what he would land post-board).

I finished the swiss in the #1 seed overall since I had to win to get in, while many others were able to draw in.

Top 8 round 1: UWR control (Lose 0-2)

---

In game 1 I got frustratingly close. I had 3 mountains and a Temple of Malice on board, with Lightning Strike and Boros Charm in hand, and opponent in range for lethal, and tapped out, but couldn't do it. The game dragged on a few more turns and I went for the kill with [card]Warleader's Helix[/card] on his upkeep, backed by Skullcrack but he responded with Izzet Charm to counter. That turn ended up being the game as after that point I couldn't quite catch him.

Sideboard:
-3 Shock
-3 [card]Searing
Blood[/card]
-2 Chained to the Rocks
+2 Banishing Light
+2 [card]Wear // Tear[/card]
+4 [card]Toil // Trouble[/card]

In game 2 I drew T/T again later in the match than I wanted, and I never saw a Phoenix or YP. Opponent landed 2 Rams and I was unable to ever beat them without a Phoenix on board. I conceded when I was out of cards and he cast the second Revelations for 5 as there was no way I could come back.

Stats
Match results 5-2

Game win % on play: 4/8 - 50%
Game win % on draw: 6/9 - 66%
Overall game win%: 58.8%

Win% pre-board: 3/7 - 42.8%
Win% post-board: 7/10 - 70%

Mulliganed: 3/17 - 17.6% of games, win% 1/3 - 33% (win was the mul 5
win vs WB Humans where both players went to 5)

Conclusions
Frustrating to do so well on the day and then get outdrawn twice by control, but that's how it goes. Talked it over with my buddy who was observing and neither of us could identify a sequencing error, so I'm OK with that. Cards just went his way. Overall really happy with how I played and I confirmed my love for the YP build. It works well for me.

One thing I wished is that in game 1 that Temple of Malice had been Temple of Silence. My logic in the mana build was that 11 white sources should be enough, and I am running stuff like Searing Blood as 3-ofs where I want to cast it on turn 2 sometimes. Still, if that temple was the other land I win Game 1 and who knows.

Others on this thread have said they find Control to be an easy matchup but I can sympathize with Lightning_Dolt - I have difficulty winning consistently. A player that doesn't tap out is hard to beat. I guess I am not pushing hard enough, and making
poor Jace decisions. Not sure.

I really didn't like Toil // Trouble in the side. I felt like it was the right call for the meta with Ram being played against me several times, but if I don't draw it in opener, it's quickly a low-value card. I may try Eidolon of the Great Revel in sideboard because it seems like it wouldn't be a dead card on Turn 5 like T/T is in many spots vs Control. Still, when I tested EGR in the main I had terrible results.

Definitely need to work on the sideboard more to feel as comfortable as I did pre-JOU. Though, winning 70% of matches post-board shows maybe I did just fine there, despite my discomfort... and always drawing Anger when I needed it didn't hurt either

[magicdownunder]

@All: Gameday players, good results keep it up

@dpaine88: T//T is amazing, I ran that variant for about week pre-JOU (it was Z list card for card I couldn't really change it at the time) and had allot of success (I have really bad naming sense so I don't know which videos they were ) its just outside the control MU I always would have rather had the YP$ simply because he make so many games that much easier.

@J_S: How are you SB'ing vs UWx Control? What are your sequences/Game Plan with your burns? I also find UWx to be a hard MU where we're only slightly favored (though for some reason a few people think its a bye, that said dpaine88 list would crush UW (4x T//T and Revel + Chandra and SBD = GG)).

[Lightning_Dolt]

I boarded:

+4 [card]Toil // Trouble[/card], +4 Eidolon of the Great Revel, +1 Erebos, God of the Dead

-4 Shock, -1 [card]Warleader's Helix[/card], -2 Searing Blood, -2 Chained to the Rocks

I don't think it's play mistakes, guy always just has everything. I don't know what to do, but I'm seriously sick of losing to that deck. Do you think leaving in Chained to the Rocks is correct? Guy runs 4x Detention Sphere and at least 2x Banishing Light... He always rips them like a champ... Game 3 he had five of my permanents locked down.

I want to just shrug it off, but I'm sick of losing to the fucking guy / deck.