Red Theros Spoilers General Discussion

[Haplo19]

K, I've got some hard dick for these Theros spoilers. Is it just me or is Red being given a lot of great tools to shore up the color's traditional weaknesses?

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PROBLEM: Topdecking weak creatures late in the game.

SOLUTION:

Yeah that'll help. Turns every crappy topdeck into at least a Shock. And also has a relevant pump ability which further synergizes with creatures.

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PROBLEM: Topdecking lands late in the game.

SOLUTION:

Snootch to the nootch; we can turn excess mountains into hasty dudes all day long as a mana sink.

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PROBLEM: No control over our draws, being at the mercy of the topdeck

SOLUTION:

I for one am stoked to play with this card. I think the extra mana for the shock is easily worth the improved consistency we will get from our draws. But, only time and testing will tell.
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It's weird because all of these cards seem specifically aimed at helping red in areas is struggles with. Not to mention the new Chandra's 0 ability is designed to help red decks with another common problem: running out of gas late game. I'm not saying these are all going to be in the same deck, but looking at these four
cards makes me really excited for standard right now. We are going to be able to brew some really fun and competitive mono-red decks.

[DerWille]

I'm liking the new Theros cards for red as well. Now that we've got Searing Spear, Lightning Strike we've got our staple burn spell. I'm thinking 2 drops might be big for red coming up, BTE chains, Lightning Strike, and Magma Jet.

Sorry, completely misread what you said about the red god. Yeah, he could be useful for turning crappy top decks into a free shock. I'm not sure about the number of them we'd want to run though. He doesn't strike me as a card that can close out the game, unless you already have 5 red worth of creatures on it already (which makes him feel a little win more-ish).

I like the controversy dragon. He comes down with evasion and haste. His monstrosity is a lot harder to activate than the god's devotion, but I can see myself wanting to top deck the dragon more than the god.

Also, how does everyone feel about Akroan Crusader?
[img:
1zybzruh]http://mythicspoiler.com/ths/cards/akroancrusader.jpg[/img]

Think this might be a playable common?

[warwizard87]

I dont know depends on how many effects we can reasonably target him with, right now I can only beg two auraes worth it, order and mad capskills beyond that its kind of iffy. I am seeing the definitive chance of a mono red blitz deck forming out of this atm though, I am a bit saddend however I dont think r/b aggro is going to work since we didn't get the dule it needed. R/g and r/w both have definitely a chance though.

[Haplo19]

I have a well-documented love of auras that blinds my judgement. I was even trying to play Civic Saber in Dos Rakis (and yes, I am giddy for this set when I might be able to play auras competitively).

But:

I think crusader and madcap skills might be a good play;

1. If the crusader gets removed you at least have the token so you didn't just get 2-for-1'd
2. Gives the little dude evasion and we hit for 4 on Turn 2
3. With all those tokens being generated it will probably be easier to activate battalion triggers (thinking Legion Loyalist, Combat medic etc.)
4. With Purphoros every token created will shock your opponent.

I've got to say though, if they really wanted to push that one drop, the crusader should be "creates a token that is a copy of this creature" instead of just a 1/1. I mean, if they printed the Bomb Rats why not? That would be fun as hell and worth building around. Ah well

I am a bit saddend however I dont think r/b aggro is going to work since we didn't get the dule it needed.

Say again? (sorry been out of the loop for a while)

[Thrillho]

I am excited to have to acquire new foil Searing Spears with a different name YOU'RE IN A BLOCK BASED ON ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME AND YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT MAGES DON'T CONJURE BURN SPELLS SIMILAR TO THE WEAPONRY OF THEIR SURROUNDINGS GIVE ME A BREAK.

I am also pretty excited to have Magma Jet back, as well as any card with Scry, really.
Not sure about Purphoros or his hammer, as they both seem way slower than what you want to be doing in aggro decks. Purphoros would be really cool with Guttersnipe, that m14 Ogre, and Young Pyromancer. Play a spell, deal 2 damage, make a token, deal 2 damage, it gets haste and +2/+0, attack for 3. That combination of cards is likely completely unreasonable to assemble, but the idea of a static 7-damage per spell after assembling your 5-card combo is kind of entertaining.

[Kaitscralt]

I think Purphoros is definitely overhyped right now

[Kaitscralt]

but then so are most of the sets mythics, but that's good because it means the sets mythics aren't total shit

[zemanjaski]

I agree, I don't think he is that good. His Hammer is very good though, testing absurdly.

[warwizard87]

Z what style are you playing the hammer in? Sledgehammer or aggro? I am liking the god so far but I also like the hammer a lot. Not sure on the numbers at all yet.

[zemanjaski]

Neither. I guess you would call it midrange. I've posted the list several times in the clan threads.

[warwizard87]

well i proxied up 2 decks last night at work a rdws and a esper played 20 preside-boarded games rdws won 13-7 (7-3 rdws on the play 6-4 esper on the play)

the rdws list i brought to the table was

[deck]

4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Firefist Striker
4 Burning-Tree Emmisary
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
3 Chandras Phoenix
3 Hammer Of Purphoros
2 Purphoros

18 Mountain
3 Mutavault[/deck]

Purphoros under preformed massively, he only won me one game in 20, aided (slightly) in 2 games and cost me 2 games. I drew both of them and stalled on 3 lands one game and the other esper managed to survive dropped a jace and then a Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver milled for 2 hit purphoros in the top 2. next turn dropped Elspath. -4 the Ashiok to get my God, then started making 3 dudes hitting me for 6 a turn. That was pretty nasty. every other time when i drew it it either got counterd,
or exiled with Detainment Sphere. Magma jet is super good(like we didnt know that already, right?) it feels really nice to go BTE into Jet turn 2 get the land for Phoenix on 3. Phoenix preformed really well.

After my first real play testing session. my new list is as follows.

[deck]

4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firefist Striker
4 Burning-Tree Emmisary
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Chandras Phoenix
2 Hammer Of Purphoros

18 Mountain
3 Mutavault[/deck]

Added the morters since form time to time i REALLY needed to kill the oracle on turn 2 or Archangel of Thrun ASAP, +1 Striker and +1 Phoenix i think i should of played 4 the entire time. -1 hammer. i got flooded with a 2nd hammer in hand a few to many times the haste is relevant and making tokens is obv powerful.
Of course thiscould all change daily cuz of spoilers, and this is only the MONO red build i haven't had a chance yet to sink my teeth into Boros yet. cant wait for
more spoilers
i am not sold on Ash Zealot yet he just dosnt have the umph that the BTE builds have atm. and right now I like the Young Pyro with 12+ burn spells.

I am a bit saddend however I dont think r/b aggro is going to work since we didn't get the dule it needed.

Say again? (sorry been out of the loop for a while)

We didnt get a scry land for R/B just R/W and R/G so the mana base for R/B is only blood crypt and rakdos guildgate....makes the mana for dos rakies really really greedy =[

Edit: its nice having a computer back to post REAL actual content. instead of short crappy half paragraph posts =/

[warwizard87]

Neither. I guess you would call it midrange. I've posted the list several times in the clan threads.

i dont have access to the clan threads i guess when i went awol this summer due to lack of magic events to play in i got taken off the roster.

EDIT:wait nm i found it i need a head desk icon to show that much fail on my part.....

[zemanjaski]

I don't think the quality of the 1 drops make straight aggro attractive enough for me to play it, but I think there are still a few rates left, so we might get another powerful 1 drop.

[warwizard87]

I don't think the quality of the 1 drops make straight aggro attractive enough for me to play it, but I think there are still a few rates left, so we might get another powerful 1 drop.

it definitely feels like we need another one drop, i been thinking of trying foundry street denizen, he was a house in block. not sure if that can transfer over to this standard or not. But i am def hoping for a 2/x for 1 i prefer aggro to midrange so fingers are crossed.

[Yarpus]

I believe you are all underestimating Legion Loyalist. Raging Goblin might not be the best card in history of humankind, but he's playable.
Let's compare him to Rakdos Cackler.

T1: Rakdos Cackler
T2: Swing for 2

T1: Legion Loyalist, Swing for 1
T2: Swing for 1

My opponent's plays don't actually make any difference. Swinging into Augur/Omenspeaker is pointless either with LL and Cackler.
Cackler's damage matters only in Control matchups if board is open. Then he starts to deal additional point of damage per turn.
T1: Cackler 0, Loyalist 1
T2: Cackler 2, Loyalist 2,
T3: Cackler 4, Loyalist 3,
T4: Cackler 6, Loyalist 4
And then both of their lifespans should end.
So we are talking about Shock of difference over 4 turns.
But Loyalist has his mad-batshit-fucking-crayzay Battalion Trigger. And Haste which might be relevant in some situations (playing Bloodrush cards), triggering as Combat Damage, obtaining
+x/0 buffs.

Oh, there's situation when it gets different. Opponent has MANA DORK.
But tell me, how many times anyone blocked your Cackler with his dork.
And I'd trade my T1 LL for Elvish Mystic all day everyday. Don't even get me started on Experiment One.

As long as there are no relevant 1/2 creatures in the format, there's little to no difference. Legion Loyalist IS good aggro drop. Even as 4 off.

[warwizard87]

I believe you are all underestimating Legion Loyalist. Raging Goblin might not be the best card in history of humankind, but he's playable.
Let's compare him to Rakdos Cackler.

T1: Rakdos Cackler
T2: Swing for 2

T1: Legion Loyalist, Swing for 1
T2: Swing for 1

My opponent's plays don't actually make any difference. Swinging into Augur/Omenspeaker is pointless either with LL and Cackler.
Cackler's damage matters only in Control matchups if board is open. Then he starts to deal additional point of damage per turn.
T1: Cackler 0, Loyalist 1
T2: Cackler 2, Loyalist 2,
T3: Cackler 4, Loyalist 3,
T4: Cackler 6, Loyalist 4
And then both of their lifespans should end.
So we are talking about Shock of difference over 4 turns.
But Loyalist has his mad-
batshit-fucking-crayzay Battalion Trigger. And Haste which might be relevant in some situations (playing Bloodrush cards), triggering as Combat Damage, obtaining +x/0 buffs.

Oh, there's situation when it gets different. Opponent has MANA DORK.
But tell me, how many times anyone blocked your Cackler with his dork.
And I'd trade my T1 LL for Elvish Mystic all day everyday. Don't even get me started on Experiment One.

As long as there are no relevant 1/2 creatures in the format, there's little to no difference. Legion Loyalist IS good aggro drop. Even as 4 off.

you misunderstand, i dont want to cut LL or RC I want 12 1 drops that are legit. I love LL he is a one drop that later on is a hell of a psudo combat trick. several times during that play testing session if i had ripped a LL of the top i would of won by running past 5-6 elspath tokens for the win. you know a cards good when your wanting your 1 drop on turn 7 to win the game.

[Yarpus]

you misunderstand, i dont want to cut LL or RC I want 12 1 drops that are legit. I love LL he is a one drop that later on is a hell of a psudo combat trick. several times during that play testing session if i had ripped a LL of the top i would of won by running past 5-6 elspath tokens for the win. you know a cards good when your wanting your 1 drop on turn 7 to win the game.

For 2-colour deck, you're okay with just 8 1CMC drops and 4 Scrylands actually. I'm on BTE camp, so... I'd rather have 12 2-CMC creatures and 8 additional 2CMC burn spells.

[warwizard87]

some more testing results over the last 2 days. 12-8 vs G/W little kid, (6-4 on play 6-4 on the draw) this match up feels more 50/50 then my results I bet it would of been closer more 50/50 if I had spent more time tuning the g/w deck. fleecemane lion is the real deal, stricker and LL does the most work in this match up breaking the stalled board positions, though if the g/w can land a early fiendslayer into a archangel of thrun I don't think red can win that match up from that point.

vs the rock 14-5 o_O 8-2 on the play 7-3 on the draw. Yes I think we win game 1 almost every time, game 2 ummm they can pretty much blow us out with sideboard options extra doomblades, decays, gaze of gorgans and ratchet bombs I think will make life hard, main deck in the build I used wasn't tuned and still a bit scatter brained, reaper of the wild is the new huntmaster/thragtusk this guy is boss, I was running 3...this is a mistake it
should be 4 when he hit the table on turn 4 if they were not dead on board he quickly took over the game. even if he only lived that turn. I was running a trading post build ment to utilize erobos and post synergy, of course wasn't good vs RDW but def a strong combo. Bow of nylia is annoying as hell, as is trading post both can keep b/g in the game almost forever. don't let the numbers fool, most of the games were either over quick or a grindfest trying to out damage the trading post before a gaze of granite cleared the table.

trying to keep pace with the spoilers, think I might add a couple heroes demise to the esper deck I used and maybe try to squeeze the spear of heliod into the G/W, I need to build a grixis cuz that's starting to look like it might be a thing, strike, jet, rackdos return, counterflux, shock, young pyro, the new fact or fiction, chandras phoenix, Chandra herself and jace, doomblade thoughtsize, hammer might be a deck worth testing against at some point. Yarpus I am not sold on the
R/G build splashing for rampager is fine but with only 8 duels and with the luck I have rampager would just sit in my hand and collect dust all event =/ I am thinking of trying boros but cant bring myself to do it the mono red has been playing really well its fast but with hammer, y.pyro, and phoenix I almost feel I can grind as well as most midrange decks.