MDU's Rx Builds

[dauntless268]

I of course scrubbed out of the FNM, including a rather disappoint loss against a GR Ramp deck that seemed to be my only good matchup in what was otherwise a sea of Human decks of all varieties, somewhat expectedly. Still it is a lot of fund to play Draconic Roar with hammering a Thunderbreak Regent on the table

I think the deck should devleop further. I think the MonoRed version is OK, but I would recommend it only in a Meta that at least to some degree is made up of Languish decks (where Berserker is great), which seems less and less the case....

I currently see three principal directions in which we can take this

1. UR Dragons This would give us Dimensional Infiltrator and Rattlechains as a way to make Messenger Really good and Icefall Regent as Dragon # 5 and possibly 6 to have Draconic Roar be more consistent. 23 lands with 8 1-drops (Neonate + Messenger) is what we'd probably be looking at

2. Atarka Dragons I still think Atarka's Command is a great card that is difficult to miss out on and that your build has a lot going for it. I would be tempted to add a 2-3 Forests rather than the CIPT dual for consistency and max out on Ire Shamans and Abbots rather than playing Berserker, but have not tested that at all. Let's not forget that Den Protector is still a card, too.

3. RB Midrange Dragons If we want to remain aggro (which I firmly believe is right) I think we should start by adding Olivia's Bloodsworn - which of course can't block but seems to be the best of the bunch. I would try to go 25 lands and include a singleton Dragonlord Kolaghan.

Let me know what you think!

[dauntless268]

....WHAT MADNESS IS THIS: UR Fliers <-- So Cheap - is this the GW Killer we need? Can this beat BW or Grxis Control?

This is a Tomahiro Saito build, I believe...

[magicdownunder]

I actually don't mind the human MU (that much) because its so fair, thus it comes down to slowly grinding them out. My issues is with the dreaded GW Token deck and random early rites into company into abby.

Anyhows:

(*) I like UR Fliers / Dragons because tempo is quite strong in a slow format (which is current standard... unless you get paired with Wx Humans).

(*) I don't like Midrange Dragons because I feel that WBx and Gxx just does it better (much like how I don't like going small or wide with Rx Aggro because Wx does it better).

(*) Atarka Dragons is just like MonoR except it add cards to help against the BS plays (Abby, Lifegain and Big Fliers) so if your not a fan of MonoR you might actually dislike Atarka even more.

[dauntless268]

It's go grindy that I ended up drawing against a mono white version at the FNM... (Yes that happens in paper magic... )

The Bant Human matchup is pretty terrible unless they stumble (which admittedly happens sometimes due to their much more shaky manabase)...

I don't dislike MonoRed at all, and it's been a fantastic journey from considering the deck essentially unplayable this season to the 5-0...
I just think now that we have a solid understanding of the basics and the matchups, it's time to respond to the Meta and see where this takes the core of this deck...

[magicdownunder]

Bant can be rough (esp. with 2+ Mage draws)...

P.S. I was wrong about UR Fliers having a poor MU with Humans (its actually a lot better then I thought it would be... the deck is legit).

[dauntless268]

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/33 ... Flash.html

[magicdownunder]

I really need a SCG account T_T - though I'm glad the list is doing well (its tons of fun).

- - -

Testing "burn heavy" aggro (basically copying Dauntless268 list but with Voices):

[deck=MDU's Mad Red]Lands 23
20 Mountain
3 Looming Spires

Creatures 22
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lightning Berserker
4 Village Messenger
2 Zurgo Bellstriker
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
4 Thunderbreak Regent

Spells 15
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Draconic Roar
4 Fiery Temper
2 Tormenting Voice
1 Avacyn's Judgment

Sideboard 15
2 Roast
2 Rending Volley
4 Goldnight Castigator
4 Fiery Impulse
3 Twin Bolt[/deck]

- - -

I'm still waiting to lose with my other MonoR list before I can test Mad Red (currently have 4 finishes in a row (all 5-0 or 4-1)).

- - -

I was testing the Mad Red list in the TP Room (yeah I know... how hypocritical) but I just wanted to get a feel about the numbers... I have to say it feels clunky as heck - not sure if its the correct direction moving forward.

[dauntless268]

The list is pretty much where I was at before you told me that Tormenting Voice is too cute...
I think Ire Shaman is the better choice because of it's flexibility on the curve.

What is the current MonoRed List you are posting those incredible results with?

[magicdownunder]

^this:

[deck=MDU's R Aggro] Lands 23
21 Mountain
2 Looming Spires

Creatures 24
4 Village Messenger
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lightning Berserker
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
4 Dragon Whisperer
4 Thunderbreak Regent

Spells 13
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Draconic Roar
3 Titan's Strengh
2 Fiery Temper

Sideboard 15
4 Fiery Impulse
4 Goldnight Castigator
2 Twin Bolt
2 Rending Volley
2 Roast
1 Chandra's Fury[/deck]

Video report (click to watch):
G1 BW Control vs R Aggro Standard LE 27
G2 Wr Humans vs R Aggro Standard LE 27
G3 Sultai vs R Aggro Standard LE 27
G4 Wr Humans vs R Aggro Standard LE 27
G5 Mardu Midrange vs R Aggro Standard LE 27

Video report (click to watch):
G1 UR Eldrazi Control vs R Aggro Standard LE 28
G2 Grixis vs R Aggro Standard LE 28
G3 Sultai Midrange vs R Aggro Standard LE 28
G4 Brain In The Jar vs R Aggro Standard LE 28
G5 Naya Midrange vs R Aggro Standard LE 28

Video report (click to watch):
G1 Grixis Control vs R Aggro Standard LE 29
G2 Temur Midrange vs R Aggro Standard LE 29
G3 Blue Prison vs R Aggro Standard LE 29
G4 R Eldrazi vs R Aggro Standard LE 29
G5 Temur Midrange vs R Aggro Standard LE 29

Except I just got knocked down my throne via Sultai Midrange and GW Token... and 3-2 \T_T/ - I currently have 30 finishes so I need 4 more but I'm not sure what to run with - I don't think Mad Red is correct so maybe something with MD Goldnight for Pressure or I can try my hand at RB Madness again for one last hurrah! (though I think UR does what RB Madness wants to do but better).

[dauntless268]

Are you open to trying Saito's UR fliers deck or is that not close enough for you to being red Aggro? Heck, we could even build a Dragons Version of it if we wanted...

[magicdownunder]

I would play Saito's list if I didn't have to buy the cards (I don't think its worth buying this late into the season... esp. with only 4 finishes left).

I'm most likely going to work on something which can beat GW slightly more consistently (which I don't believe is possible in mono red), maybe Akoum Firebird might be better then Goldnight - I'll think about it 2morrow and toss together a 75.

[dauntless268]

The cards for Saito's list cost next to nothing over what we already have, unless I'm missing something....

-----------

Tom Ross plays the deck in a new vs. Video and substituted the 3 mana counterspells with Twin bolt...haven't watched it yet

[magicdownunder]

I'm missing all the blue cards and lands which are worth 50+ tickets (it isn't much true but not worth the price for the limited number games I intend to play with standard).

- - -

[deck=MDU's R Aggro] Lands 24
20 Mountain
4 Looming Spires

Creatures 22
4 Village Messenger
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lightning Berserker
4 Thunderbreak Regent
3 Goldnight Castigator
3 Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh

Spells 14
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Draconic Roar
4 Fiery Impulse
2 Fiery Temper

Sideboard 15
4 Roast
3 Twin Bolt
2 Tears of Valakut
2 Rending Volley
2 Titan's Strength
1 Chandra's Fury
1 Act of Treason [/deck]

I 4-1 the LE beating: BW Control, Bant Humans, Wr Humans and BG Control - I lost against Mini_Gnarls R Whacker which I fork up to the variance gods because my list should of been REALLY good against x/1.deck but it just wasn't meant to be...

Anyhow I didn't like playing without Abbot so I don't think I'll run it again (though I LOVED 3x Chandra - granted I faced 2x Human builds so I'm kinda bias now).

[magicdownunder]

I'm having success this list (4-1x2):

[deck=MDU's R Aggro] Lands 23
21 Mountain
2 Looming Spires

Creatures 24
4 Village Messenger
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lightning Berserker
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
3 Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
4 Thunderbreak Regent
1 Goldnight Castigator

Spells 13
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Draconic Roar
3 Titan's Strength
2 Fiery Temper

Sideboard 15
4 Fiery Impulse
3 Roast
3 Goldnight Castigator
3 Twin Bolt
2 Rending Volley [/deck]

I think it might have a slot vs the evil GW Tokens list...

[stuffydollfan]

Im sticking to R/B list cuz i'm rakdos for life!
But that blue list is pretty neat.

Anyways, I bought the R/B madness dragon deck on MTGO and been playing it a bunch in tournament practice. I still have the same list that is on page 2 and been getting a good feel for it and a good feel for the decks that are out there in standard.

There are a couple things I would like to further reflect on. It feels like the creature composition is fine. Maybe we want different creatures at different slots but I don't feel adding a bunch of one drops wont help this version of the deck. I will probably try out a 3 or 4 of Olivia. She seems like she would be perfect with all these other flyers here. Also for other four drops, I might try out the Avaricious Dragon since rakdos likes to be greedy and this is as greedy as it gets. Can't think of any other 4 drop i like aside from the dragon but its good enough to be in the deck as our 4 drop. If the deck goes more of a midrange route, i can see adding a 1 or 2 of Dragonlord Kolaghan. Aside from being big and hasty, it does add more dragons to help trigger Draconic Roar.

I like all of our spells except maybe for Draconic Roar since it ranges from big hit to miss. Sometimes I find myself wanting to go to the face and Draconic Roar being a dud in my hand. Other times it's hitting creatues and deals damage to the opponent. At least the deck does let you discard it if the card isnt being all that great. The other card I am liking a bit is Avacyn's Judgement. At the very worst it's gonna hit the opponent for a measly 2 damage but having the ability to madness and go for X is very nice.

With all that said the core is nice and has multiple paths to victory. Having a turn 2 Heir of Falkenrath makes things so much easier. But even if I dont manage to get a creature, games are still very winable.

[magicdownunder]

The thing is that Rb Deck I posted on page 2 is AMAZING when everything fall together - the problem is that it can be very inconsistency and clunky (which means you have to mull... except the deck is terrible to mull with).

We have two solutions:
1) Go Big (though doing this would turn the deck into something else completely).
2) Add more draw cards to help with the inconstancy or just toss in more 1 or 2 drops over some of the 3cc in the deck.

[MrPonsen]

hey there, long time lurker here

thank you MDU and all the others for keeping on working for the good cause
a couple of observations and questions:

one drops: i agree that as counterintuitive as it is, messenger and neonate are actually the best onedrops. im am not enitrely sure about lightning berserker though. you seem to like it a lot, could you maybe give some thoughts on this one? i get that it trades up, but i rarely want to spend my mana this way, since berseker tends to use whole turns that i could use more tempo-efiiciently.

I've been trying to just cut the other one drops (sometimes i have 1-2 berserker or zurgo) I play the Rg version ( no TS or Tempers) and have replaced it with the 4th whisperer, 3rd chandra, an Avaricious dragon and the 23 land. I really like how this makes the deck full of more must-kill things, that make the opponents turns more awkward and more likely to stick one of those potential game enders. I did side out berserkers a lot anyway.

would love to hear your guys' thoughts and thx again for all the work

[magicdownunder]

If your referring to my post on MTGS in regards to the counter-intuitive nature of Messenger - that was in regards to whacker.deck where your encourages to drop your hand as soon as possible (in the type of decks which I run - dropping your hand isn't as important).

Now in regards with Lightning Berserker its one of the best 1-drops because it "can" trade with everything, works well with flipped Messenger and dashing it also means you have higher chances of flipping chandra as well. Even in the the whacker.deck its still powerful since you DON'T have to pump him and can just drop him on the board as a 1/1 - when you have nothing to do then you have a sink.

[MrPonsen]

thx for the quick answer.

i hadnt read your post, just meant that the 2 power onedrops are not the best this time around which is not very intuitive

LB's sinergy with chandra and messenger was not on my radar, gonna give it another shot.

[dauntless268]

X/1s are not very well positioned at the moment, due to Hangarbacks plus the plethora of 2/3 creatures. This is true for Lightning Berserkers as well, but they have the highest upside in terms of the damage they can cause when unopposed.

[stuffydollfan]

I think you might be right with the card draw route. A lot of the times I'm always siding in an extra or two Tormenting Voice. Just feels like having more gas helps a bunch. That and adding a one of or even two of read the bones might be ideal. I will make the changes this week and see how it goes.

I said this before and I am mainly going by my gut feeling here but I don't think adding more 1 or 2 cmc creatures is the way to go for this version of the deck. Most the creatures in the R/B madness decks dont really require much support which many times lets us concentrate on the main goal of going to the face. If we add a creature to the deck it has to either really synergize with the deck or be pretty threatening on its own like the dragon.

[magicdownunder]

@Stuffydollfan: Yeah I think Lightning Axe or some creatures could be cut for Tormenting Voice 3-4 MD - if we do cut a creature it has to be between the Red Vampires...

@Dauntless268: Considering the the two top decks right now are Bant and GW it may not be the worst idea to stack your deck MD to be more favorable against them - that said I prefer building to our strengths rather then testing the middle ground (overly much) thus I would keep the best one drops if possible.

Anyway I don't think Bant is that bad of a MU (I've played against them a lot now and have a favorable record against them) - I do however believe GW to be really difficult (MD Goldnight maybe the correct approach is dealing with them).

[MrPonsen]

@dauntless, mdu: hangarbacks and secure are almost too prevalent to rely this much on berserker. at the minimum i'd max out on whisperers before playing all 4 LBs, most of the time LB isnt a real 1drop anyway so i think thats a fair swap.

[magicdownunder]

@MrPonsen: Can you post your current 75? I like Whisperers as well for the most part, it acts like superior LB (without the haste) until you hit 5+ lands.

[MrPonsen]

[deck]RgMedium[/deck]

Started with one of your lists then made it worse This is what i have been playing the last two days.
The Avaricious Dragon has been quite good for me both as roar enabler and as a last threat once they have dealt with everything. When Topdecking against humans, if they declaration it, you're still up a card. Otherwise you just win.

Not sure about Scab-Clan in the SB anymore. Isnt ideal against the control decks but still decent. On the other hand he wins the game alone vs this monoblue deck.

[magicdownunder]

Firstly - I highly recommend cutting Scab-Clan Berserker, it can be good but that window of usefulness is much to narrow.

I'm not 100% sold on Avaricious Dragon (mainly because its a horrid early/midgame draw) but its def. great with an empty hand - aside from that it looks like your deck is geared more towards beating creature based builds (heck I would almost suggest MD 3x Impulse in the deck over Command - but i'm already concerned about the control/ramp MUs).

[dauntless268]

@MDU

According to the latest Goldfish Stats, GW Tokens, WR Humans and Bant Humans are the top 3 decks and make for about 40% of the online Meta. This means we need a good plan G1 against them and filling the battlefield with mediocre 1-drops in hope that they somehow stumble. Especially against the "Boss Humans" deck type i find our g1 prospects not convincing enough.

Note this is theorycrafting, I haven't been playing during the last days. I have given up on splash ideas for now, mainly because buying the paper cards will be too expensive and I have a real paper tournament (something like an Invitational Qualifier) coming up in about two weeks and not keen on spending much more money, so I wanna stick with the Mono Red experiment for now...

What does that leave me with? My current idea is to try a build with Goblin Dark-Dweller MD. Most likely I would want 23 lands and 2 GDD with a little bit of extra card draw to make sure we get there. Possibly something like:

[deck]
4 Neonate
4 Berserker
4 Abbot
4 Shaman
4 Thunderbreak
2 GDD

4 Firecraft
4 Roar
4 Temper
1 Roast

2 Tormenting Voice

23 Lands

SB
4 Fiery Impulse
2 Roast
2 Rending Volley
2 Twin Bolt
3 Castigator
2 Act of Treason
[/deck]

@ Mr. Ponsen:

Not sure Berserker and Whisperer fill the same role in the deck. Berserker's role is mostly that of a repeatable lightning bolt vs. Languish decks when they are tapped out in order to not overextend, while Whispy is a solid 2-drop vs. GW, where we otherwise have very little in the air on our early turns.

[magicdownunder]

Looks quite good (Messanger is horrid vs the top3) except I'll go for either Chandra, Extra removal or Dragon Whisperer over Shaman (menace isn't as powerful vs those deck, though CA is important vs Aggro and Bant - Whisperer usefulness is more consistence) - I don't like GDD for the same reason reason + it make pitching lands to Neonate much harder early game.

[MrPonsen]

@dauntless: you got a point there, the reach that LB grants makes it a great card vs control ( although BW runs secure). I was more concerned with curving out and getting around h-backs and tokens. whisperer not having haste makes it one of the worst cards against control. its a way different card even if they both breathe fire. so, as you said, probably a question of meta and positioning

@mdu: command is not at its greatest in a non token deck, and it seems a little crazy to make your manabase worse just for that. but as you noted the reach is necessary, as is fighting kalitas and ormendahl. 4dmg in one card is still what we all want

On Dark-Dwelling: Could we maybe take the cheating-on-land-plan to the next level and run all the expedites? goes well with chandra, abbot and turns thunderbreak into stormbreath. all i know is that neonate, expedite and abbot should make 23 land easily possible. we'd probably have to keep some other 1 drops to make sure we cycle the expedites. just a crazy idea so far, wanted to hear your thoughts on how to approach such a build. more removal? fodder/command? way bigger with flamecaller?

[magicdownunder]

Ahhh~ If your focusing on GW Token - I recommend UR Fliers

In MonoR I had success with:

[deck=MDU's R Aggro] Lands 24
20 Mountain
4 Looming Spires

Creatures 22
4 Village Messenger
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lightning Berserker
4 Thunderbreak Regent
3 Goldnight Castigator
3 Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh

Spells 14
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Draconic Roar
4 Fiery Impulse
2 Fiery Temper

Sideboard 15
4 Roast
3 Twin Bolt
2 Tears of Valakut
2 Rending Volley
2 Titan's Strength
1 Chandra's Fury
1 Act of Treason [/deck]

I think you could cut the Messengers and maybe some chandras (though I think 1-2 should be MD) for Whisperers for extra anti-token goodness.

- - -

P.S. Rg is really really good... when the meta is infested with BW, 4C Crats and BG Control - right now its not horrid but I can see the resistances to adding all the "sometimes" citpt lands.

[dauntless268]

After quite some testing, here's what I've ended up with for the next round of Leagues

[deck]Dauntless R Aggro[/deck]

Goblin Dark Dwellers are in SB for grindy matchups - when we board in a TON of extra removal spells, games go MUCH longer and it's quite easy to get to 5 Mana. I didn't like them maindeck, because g1 the deck just needs as many of its ressources available in the first turns as possible

Village Messenger - I've been on and off this guy but I feel this is the best shot we've got for a fast start

Twin Bolt MD... I want more burn and no, I won't run spells that can't hit face Twin Bolt allows the deck to slow roll just a tiny bit, hopefully enough to help Messenger to a few flips against decks where it matters

Will report back how the leagues go...

[MrPonsen]

watching your latest set of videos, berserker sure looks like the mvp, so consider me convinced

vs grixis: you know that you can target fumarole in response to the switch, right? was watching without sound, so dont know if you commented on it or just clicked through it by accident. would have won the game i assume

[magicdownunder]

Yeah... I actually didn't know that until late into the season T_T (I worked it out towards the end when UR Eldrazi got more pop. though).

- - -

How did your leagues go Dauntless (I do think 4x Looming is a bit much in 22 land deck).

P.S. Anyone here interested in Modern Burn (I might start another mini-blog for Rx Burn) or are you focused on Standard?

[stuffydollfan]

Did a whole bunch of practice games this week on MTGO and im feeling pretty good about the deck as is. I tried a couple of different deck configurations and I feel like I'm starting to get into a good stride.

First I should cover what is the latest deck list

[deck]4 Foreboding Ruins
12 Mountains
4 Smoldering Marsh
3 Swamp

4 Insolent Neonate
4 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Ravenous Bloodseeker
3 Olivia, Mobilized for War
4 Thunderbreak Regent

4 Tormenting Voice
4 Alms to the Vein
2 Read the Bones
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Fiery Temper[/deck]

Had a lot of success vs many other agro/midrange decks with this list. As long as we have 3 mana we are usually able to draw into enough gas to get there before they can. Casting creatures helps immensely but they are not necessary to win our matches. The deck can sometimes stumble but that holds true with any deck. Here it feels like there's a good mixture madness enablers with the right amount of madness cards. Aside from the Ravenous Bloodseeker, all of the creatures in this deck have some form of evasion and need very little support from their initial mana investment to do their jobs. Been liking Olivia since she gives us a must answer threat on turn 3. The only downside is that there are lots of ways to removing her efficiently. Still I think having her in the deck is better than having something like Draconic Roar or Lightning Axe.

I did run into a couple of snags along the way. G/R Eldrazi can keep our creatures in check with kill spells and sweepers if we over extend. If we dont deal enough damage early on they have the ability to end games very quick. Not an impossible match but it does feels like there is a smaller window of opportunity here.

G/W/x decks that play the ally that gives lifelink are pretty annoying. Normally i try to go to the face with my burn and if i see one of those fuckers then it will be eating burn asap. If they are gaining life then that is never good for us. More controlling G/W/x decks also run enough removal for our guys which makes it harder life harder for us since it forces us to keep drawing relevant spells.

Guess I could try with a lower curve for some of those matches? I dont know, I'm not feeling going smaller since our creatures are pure crap, except on the first two turns. Gong small also probably means sticking with one color since I dont feel good with the mana base to support a bunch of small creatures. We could also try going the more creature heavy route. Feels like this deck would be very ideal for reanimator if it was tuned just right.

[magicdownunder]

Nice~

I'm really bias toward the Dragon+Roar Combo so I would just cut the Dragons from your list and add more lands (+2) and GDD (+2) - that said I havn't done any testing so I don't know if that is good or not.

[dauntless268]

Yeah... I actually didn't know that until late into the season T_T (I worked it out towards the end when UR Eldrazi got more pop. though).

How did your leagues go Dauntless (I do think 4x Looming is a bit much in 22 land deck).

1-4 (I can't count how many times I mulliganned during that league lol) and 3-2. Aside from variance, biggest issue was definitely Village Messenger doing next to nothing... This leaves us with 8 decent 1-drops.... need to re-think...

[magicdownunder]

Village Messenger is decent vs Wr Humans, Ramp, Midrange, Tempo, Mill and Control - its sometimes ok vs Coco and Token (but mostly trash), I still like it as 1-drop 9-12 but it depends on your meta I guess (if your seeing lots of Coco, Midrange and Token you might be better of with Whisperer or Chandra).

[stuffydollfan]

Nice~

I'm really bias toward the Dragon+Roar Combo so I would just cut the Dragons from your list and add more lands (+2) and GDD (+2) - that said I havn't done any testing so I don't know if that is good or not.

My problem with Draconic Roar was just inconsistencies. When it hits both the creature and the player then it's one of the best spells in the deck but with only 4 dragons in the deck, often times it's just underwhelming. I guess my main beef is the variance of the spells impact. In a deck like ours it feels like we want all of our spells to get us closer to winning the game. I guess you can say that about 1 drop creatures after a certain point in the game, since they are all almost useless but that's why you play at least 8 in a normal rdw deck to try and get a few out early on. Anyways im going off topic. The only other thing i would test out a one of or two of Dragonlord Kholaghan to give us a better chance to hit those Roars. That would require to go up to 24 or 25 lands and maybe cuttin something like Olivia. But aside from giving one of our cards some more consistency, it is also a fantastic finisher, a must answer creature, an excellent top deck, and does not give a fuck about Archangel Avacyn.

I like the Thunderbreak Regent itself since it provides a big threat at the 4 slot. And to end all debate of which dragon we want, Thunderbreak Regent is better than Avarice Dragon. Even in our madness deck the regent is the superior dragon simply because of the immediate pressure it creates and the virtual card advantage we get whenever it gets targeted. With the other dragon, even when you set him up correctly, he has a good chance of doing nothing and you get almost no payback in return.

Haven't tested out GDD yet but it does seem like he could be a decent fit to the deck. I do like that GDD has a bit more utility than the regent, but menace isn't as good as flying especially in the mid game stages, and the cost 5cmc vs 4cmc is huge. What other 4cmc or 5cmc creatures are there that's worth taking a look at? Do we even want or need a fat creature?

[dauntless268]

Stuffydolphan, I've done some testing with a list similar to yours and mainly given up on it because of wanting to play Mono Red on paper. Here's a few pointers from my subjective point of view
- Draconic Roar: in current meta this is perfectly ok even without a Dragon in hand. Consider The rest as a bonus
- GDD: amazing but need to make sure you run enough spells and it definitely pulls the deck into a more midrange direction. Combines amazingly well with Kolaghan's Command for massive card advantage
- Alms: I get it's got madness, but I found the the fact that it's card disadvantage in a vacuum underwhelming in testing
- Olivia: Good but a but a bit meta dependent, as it's vulnerable against Reflector Mage. It's upside is probably big enough to justify the risk. My view is that if you run GDD then I would rather run spells at the 3 drop slot, if not then Olivia is fine
- Dragonlord: Love it - a hasty flier that hits for 6 is very good but need at least 25 lands. Objectively speaking, it's hard to justify not running Chandra once you have access to 6 mana
- last but not least the colors: if you run RB I'd suggest you consider a few Haven of the Spirit Dragon. I personally want to have access to Radiant Flames after SB for 3 Damage and my current take on the deck is Grixis, with Rattlechains and Infiltrator as early blockers and attackers alike. Happy to post the list if interested.

[stuffydollfan]

I was thinking about going the Grixis route earlier for Jace and other support cards but was unsure if the mana was good enough. Hell, I barely feel good with the mana for these 2 color red/x decks. Still I would like to see what you've cooked up.

Draconic Roar:I don't know about you but the way I played the deck is that I usually ignore most of their stuff and attack and throw everything to their face. Since most of our creatures have evasion I will usually try to race with their guys.

Alms: That's why I like Alms so much since it synergizes so well with the deck. It can get pitch to 15 creatures in the deck i'm playing and the 4 Tormenting Voice. I will admit that by itself, this card does not make the cut.

GDD: Yes this card will force us to go a slightly different route here but he might be ok in an agro orientated deck like this one. In our deck he can provide us with either 3 to four points of damage when coming into play or draw us some more cards if we need that.

Olivia: I like her but not married to her. She can be dealt with very efficiently and sometimes it can put us behind. I can cut her for other spells but I'm keeping her for now.

Dragonlord: vs. Chandra I have no experience with either but I think I would rather have the Dragonlord here. Chandra has a little bit extra utility but in the late game, those 3/1 creatures are going to be running into some big walls where the Dragonlord is going to rule the sky and beat all other flyers except for a flipped Avacyn. I have to do more testing.

And yes, I will look into Haven of the Spirit Dragon. looks like a good inclusion for the dragon decks.