GOP Candidates Mafia 2016 - GAME OVER - PATAKI TAKES ALL

[hamfactorial]

Interesting, Stardust.

I am town, and I trust Manders to have balanced the game appropriately. I see where you're going with the D2 control of the game by the masons, though.

Assuming your non-mason D1/N1 kill, how many votes would be required for a D2 lynch with 7 alive?

[RedNihilist]

On the other side, if we had 3 scum players to begin with we'd risk to lose the game on N1.

Do you think that it'll be likely?

Other routes would be having a self-aligned player or a traitor in the Investigative Committee, thoughts?

[hamfactorial]

3 scum would be a pretty difficult game for town unless we have a lot of power roles in addition to the masons.

Interesting thought about a traitor in the Investigation Committee. Which of us do you think that might be?

[RedNihilist]

With two of them dead and confirmed town... you know...
Who was the third again?

[Stardust]

You see my concern. 3 neighbours with 1 as scum is the classic three-person neighbourhood. ham claims they were masons, and imopen certainly acted as though they were, so I'm not sure.

Assuming your non-mason D1/N1 kill, how many votes would be required for a D2 lynch with 7 alive?

4, obviously. But then the masons come out in the open, maybe the whole game full-claims, whatever. Since 3 mafia is busted to shit, none of those masons are likely to be lynched, so they lynch someone else (let's say one of the two other townies). Now we're at 6 Alive come Night 2 with 3 masons, 1 other-town, and 2 mafia. If mafia kill the other-town, the masons now control the lynch and the mafia can't win, period. So they have to kill a mason, but that confirms the others were telling the truth which is almost just as bad. It's way too far out there.

100% we either have more than two scum (maybe that end of Day kill on imopen was a serial killer?) or ham's lying. Even the serial killer theory doesn't feel good. Half your town being confirmed town kinda misses the point of mafia, you know?

[Stardust]

Actually, we should talk too about imopen's death. If you were responsible for that (or know anything about it), you should consider speaking up. Understanding more about this setup would go a long way towards breaking this open.

[hamfactorial]

I know exactly why io2 died, and I'm happy to share the reasons in a little bit.

I woke this morning to a surprise addition to our Committee quicktopic: a new member! Unfortunately, this new member entered at the same time the beloved Col K died. I don't yet know if these facts are related.

If anyone else has anything they'd like to share about Col K, please speak up. You don't have to say what you know, I just need some help figuring out of this mysterious guest is representing himself honestly.

[hamfactorial]

You see my concern. 3 neighbours with 1 as scum is the classic three-person neighbourhood. ham claims they were masons, and imopen certainly acted as though they were, so I'm not sure.

I hadn't considered that possibility, but I see the issue from your POV.

If the new member wishes to out himself and protect me from doubt, he may scroll back in the quicktopic and see that Manders confirmed that the original committee members had identical role PMs. See messages #1 and #5!

If I was a scum plant on the committee, Manders wouldn't have made that statement.

[Stardust]

This game is weird. I have no idea what's going on.

[RedNihilist]

Are you asking me who I trust less between the two of you?

[RedNihilist]

Meanwhile I'm waiting for somebody to explain me how I got to L-2 without any reason, if you don't mind.

[hamfactorial]

Fight me, Red

[Manders]

Vote Count 2.1

Pedrobear (1): ( G_R )
RedNihilist (1): Kraj

Not Voting (4): Pedrobear, RedNihilist, hamfactorial; Stardust


With 6 alive, it is 4 to lynch

Let me know if I missed anything.

[Kraj]

You see my concern. 3 neighbours with 1 as scum is the classic three-person neighbourhood. ham claims they were masons, and imopen certainly acted as though they were, so I'm not sure.

I see what you mean, but if imopen was directly told ColK and ham had the same role PM as him, that's bastard mod territory. Based on the information we have thus far, ham is as confirmed town as anyone ever is in mafia. That doesn't mean there's no possible way he's scum, but it does mean it makes absolutely no sense to suspect him more than any other player.

Meanwhile I'm waiting for somebody to explain me how I got to L-2 without any reason, if you don't mind.

Unless I missed something you've never had more than one vote on you. But given that I made a detailed case against you that two other people agree with, I think you should be explaining why you shouldn't be lynched. Or at the very least, you could pop the cherry and actually post an opinion on someone's alignment. If you don't mind.

[( G_R )]

Ah modgaming...

Where is that Pedro guy?

[RedNihilist]

Meanwhile I'm waiting for somebody to explain me how I got to L-2 without any reason, if you don't mind.

Unless I missed something you've never had more than one vote on you. But given that I made a detailed case against you that two other people agree with, I think you should be explaining why you shouldn't be lynched. Or at the very least, you could pop the cherry and actually post an opinion on someone's alignment. If you don't mind.[/quote]

I thought that I had a second vote on me, still with you + ham + Stardust I'm at L-1 at the "exit polls".

I also find funny the fact that you consider a "detailed case against me" a 3 lines paragraph where you basically said "he posts a lot, but I don't like his posts, so he must be scum" - I'm sure that's considered top-quality content in your country.

My opinions:
GR - the only player whose posts I can relate with so far;
Stardust - Godfather as usual;
ham - this whole Committee thing is fishy;
you - I felt good vibes from rezmo, not from you;
Pedro - scum feelings from him.

You see my concern. 3 neighbours with 1 as scum is the classic three-person neighbourhood. ham claims they were masons, and imopen certainly acted as though they were, so I'm not sure.

I see what you mean, but if imopen was directly told ColK and ham had the same role PM as him, that's bastard mod territory. Based on the information we have thus far, ham is as confirmed town as anyone ever is in mafia. That doesn't mean there's no possible way he's scum, but it does mean it makes absolutely no sense to suspect him more than any other player.

Top quality content, see above.
Are you suspecting ham or are you considering him Town?

[Pedrobear]

Ah modgaming...

Where is that Pedro guy?

I'm there ! And I have completely no fucking idea what is going on in this game !

[RedNihilist]

Ah modgaming...

Where is that Pedro guy?

I'm there ! And I have completely no fucking idea what is going on in this game !

Are you town?
Without considering yourself, there are only 5 other players left, what do you think of them?

[Kraj]

I also find funny the fact that you consider a "detailed case against me" a 3 lines paragraph where you basically said "he posts a lot, but I don't like his posts, so he must be scum" - I'm sure that's considered top-quality content in your country.

I'm glad you're amused but this is a blatant strawman dismissal. There's a big difference between "I don't like his posts" and "His posts lack content, stances on other players, votes, or anything that looks like a townie scumhunting". Active lurking is scum behavior; you don't get to just pretend it's not. I also referenced specific posts and behaviors. So I'm curious what level of detail you would find acceptable.

Since we're having a laugh, I find it funny that belittle my case but then act on my argument by finally posting opinions. And that list of opinions literally calls everyone scummy except GR, whom you merely imply you think is town.

You see my concern. 3 neighbours with 1 as scum is the classic three-person neighbourhood. ham claims they were masons, and imopen certainly acted as though they were, so I'm not sure.

I see what you mean, but if imopen was directly told ColK and ham had the same role PM as him, that's bastard mod territory. Based on the information we have thus far, ham is as confirmed town as anyone ever is in mafia. That doesn't mean there's no possible way he's scum, but it does mean it makes absolutely no sense to suspect him more than any other player.
Top quality content, see above.
Are you suspecting ham or are you considering him Town?

Again, insulting my play isn't going to get you anywhere. I also have a problem with repeating myself for people who don't bother to read my posts for themselves, especially when I think they're scum. My T/S very clearly states Ham is confirmed town. Above clealry states he's confirmed. Stardust is the one suggesting otherwise. He's not wrong to critically examine the setup, but that's looking in the wrong place. It's like you're searching for something and you keep looking in the same place because there's a chance it might still be there somewhere instead of looking other places where it could be.

[hamfactorial]

Ok, now that we've heard from everyone, here's what happened to imopen2.

As part of an investigation committee, we have an active power. Each night, and only when we are all alive, we may agree and submit a name and learn the alignment of that player.

We also had a last resort power that gave us the ability to learn the identity of one of Trump's supporters, once per game, but only when all of us were alive. The catch is that to pay for this information, one of us would die at beginning of the next night, chosen at random.

Manders didn't specify when the last resort ability could be used, so I asked if it could be used in the daytime. She said yes, but the sacrifice would happen at close of day.

Going into N1, io2 and I had painted a big target on our heads with our blatant D1 claim. I suggested that we use the last resort power. Since we had a third member (Col K), even if scum killed one of us and the other died to the last resort power, the third member could reveal himself on D2 and explain the power and be confirmed town.

Manders told us NightArcher was scum, so I laid it on thick and pushed hard for him to get lynched. It was a success, and we were happy to trade one of us for a guaranteed dead scum.

When scum killed Col K overnight and not me, I immediately watched out for anyone who accused me of being scum or killing io2 despite delivering town a scum lynch on D1. Red and Stardust both are leaning on me about this.

[RedNihilist]

I also find funny the fact that you consider a "detailed case against me" a 3 lines paragraph where you basically said "he posts a lot, but I don't like his posts, so he must be scum" - I'm sure that's considered top-quality content in your country.

I'm glad you're amused but this is a blatant strawman dismissal. There's a big difference between "I don't like his posts" and "His posts lack content, stances on other players, votes, or anything that looks like a townie scumhunting". Active lurking is scum behavior; you don't get to just pretend it's not. I also referenced specific posts and behaviors. So I'm curious what level of detail you would find acceptable.

I wouldn't find any level of detail acceptable because, being myself a good townie citizen, you'd wasting your time anyway.
I still don't think that your case is strong at all, especially in a game when half of the people involved say "I don't know that's up with this game", but feel free to think otherwise.

Since we're having a laugh, I find it funny that belittle my case but then act on my argument by finally posting opinions. And that list of opinions literally calls everyone scummy except GR, whom you merely imply you think is town.

Since you were having hard time understanding what's up in my head, I thought it would be cute to make you guys know that I'm lacking good reads, but I've never been the sharpest tool in the box so I'm not even that bothered from that.

You see my concern. 3 neighbours with 1 as scum is the classic three-person neighbourhood. ham claims they were masons, and imopen certainly acted as though they were, so I'm not sure.

I see what you mean, but if imopen was directly told ColK and ham had the same role PM as him, that's bastard mod territory. Based on the information we have thus far, ham is as confirmed town as anyone ever is in mafia. That doesn't mean there's no possible way he's scum, but it does mean it makes absolutely no sense to suspect him more than any other player.
Top quality content, see above.
Are you suspecting ham or are you considering him Town?

Again, insulting my play isn't going to get you anywhere. I also have a problem with repeating myself for people who don't bother to read my posts for themselves, especially when I think they're scum. My T/S very clearly states Ham is confirmed town. Above clealry states he's confirmed. Stardust is the one suggesting otherwise. He's not wrong to critically examine the setup, but that's looking in the wrong place. It's like you're searching for something and you keep looking in the same place because there's a chance it might still be there somewhere instead of looking other places where it could be.

Blah blah blah.
You say Stardust's looking in the wrong place, but I know for a fact that I'm town so I don't really get where you're aiming at.
Try looking somewhere else.

For example there's this player that's trying to push a wagon on this other players without any good case just because he's seen him antagonizing this third supposedly "confirmed town" guy...

[( G_R )]

Are you scum, Stardust, or just independently aligned?

What are your thoughts on Red and Pedrobear?

[( G_R )]

EBWOP: Thanks for the info Ham.

[( G_R )]

I'll unvote for now.

[( G_R )]

BTW, I'm exiting the country as I type this and enter the sister republic of El Salvador. I'll try to check the game at the hotel.

[Stardust]

Are you scum, Stardust, or just independently aligned?

What are your thoughts on Red and Pedrobear?

I'm not sure. Red is tough for me to read at the best of times, and this is not the best of times. Based on Day 1, scum. Day 2 feels a bit better, but I think that's only because he's fighting with Kraj. If Nightarcher has a buddy though, this is it.

Pedrobear lurks. I recall leaning scum on him, but I don't remember why off hand. I think at this point an independant is basically guaranteed. I see no reason not to trust ham at this point, which makes this a weird game, for sure. With that last resort ability, maybe it is possible we have 3 Mafia, though I'm not sure why Manders would effectively turn a 9 player game into a 7 for no reason. I guess I can say, if we do have a neutral, I'm not sure what that would look like.

[hamfactorial]

I'm in the mood to shake up this election cycle.

I'm publicly stating my intent to reveal the identity of the mysterious committee guest, along with his role PM, and irregularities I've found in his statements to me regarding Col K and imopen2's deaths.

He may take this opportunity to come clean and tell us here, on the record, what he's up to!

I suspect that he's the dark horse independent, and I want him to coordinate with town in the open instead of sneaking into backrooms.

He has 24 hours to respond to this post or risk having his dirty secrets revealed for everyone to see. Do the right thing! God bless America!

[RedNihilist]

Are you scum, Stardust, or just independently aligned?

What are your thoughts on Red and Pedrobear?

I'm not sure. Red is tough for me to read at the best of times, and this is not the best of times. Based on Day 1, scum. Day 2 feels a bit better, but I think that's only because he's fighting with Kraj. If Nightarcher has a buddy though, this is it.

Pedrobear lurks. I recall leaning scum on him, but I don't remember why off hand. I think at this point an independant is basically guaranteed. I see no reason not to trust ham at this point, which makes this a weird game, for sure. With that last resort ability, maybe it is possible we have 3 Mafia, though I'm not sure why Manders would effectively turn a 9 player game into a 7 for no reason. I guess I can say, if we do have a neutral, I'm not sure what that would look like.

Why did you just stop there?
Tell me more about Kraj and GR, Dustie-sensei!

[Stardust]

More later. I'm way too sick to dive into this right now. I think I might have been on drugs while making my last post. A bit rambly, right?

[hamfactorial]

Don't die on us, Dusty!

[RedNihilist]

I'm in the mood to shake up this election cycle.

I'm publicly stating my intent to reveal the identity of the mysterious committee guest, along with his role PM, and irregularities I've found in his statements to me regarding Col K and imopen2's deaths.

He may take this opportunity to come clean and tell us here, on the record, what he's up to!

I suspect that he's the dark horse independent, and I want him to coordinate with town in the open instead of sneaking into backrooms.

He has 24 hours to respond to this post or risk having his dirty secrets revealed for everyone to see. Do the right thing! God bless America!

The clock is ticking...

[( G_R )]

So you're not it? I'm not it either.

[hamfactorial]

Heading back into the conference room, you all look around to see how many have returned for Day 2. A quick head count shows there to be 6; Col. Khaddafi hasn't arrived yet. Suddenly his picture is shown on the projector screen with a giant red X drawn over his face.

Col. Khaddafi has been killed overnight. He was Jim Gilmore, Town Investigative Committee member

It is now Day 2. With 6 alive, it is 4 to lynch.

This is the start of D2. I'm located in the Pacific time zone, and the game opened on D2 at 9:33 a.m.

Over in the committee QT, at 9:36 a.m. Pacific time, I was told that:
1. RedNihilist was now part of my committee and could chat with me anytime
2. Col. Khadaffi has been killed.

Strange thing to see this happen! Coincidence? I vowed to learn more. I immediately asked Red what he was doing in my QT, and he informed me that he can copy the ability of a dead player. Suspecting the worst, I asked why he had targeted Col K, and he told me that his role included "Investigative" and that sounded more useful than "Party Spy for Trump".

He followed this explanation by posting his role PM. He claimed to be Jeb Bush, Town Party Poser. His active ability is that, during Day or Night, he may PM Manders the name of one dead player. He will then inherit their ability until the next Day begins. He will not inherit their Last Resort power.

His Last Resort ability was such that once per game, he may PM Manders the name of a dead player. He will then inherit their ability for the rest of the game, but his posting will be limited to one entry with content per day (not capitalized). He may post smilies, vote, and quote other players, but cannot post words more than once a day. I assume this is a real life time limit (24 hours), and not an in-game Day restriction, because Manders likes to capitalize Day and Night on purpose.

I could understand his choice, but there was something wrong with his story; He entered my chat before Manders told anyone that Col K was dead!

I asked him for clarification about which ability he had inherited from Col K. He responded that he was successfully posing as imopen2, not Col K, and he had mixed them up when answering my questions. Further, he said that he can communicate with me via the QT, that's all. I asked him this early on purpose, because my colleagues imopen2, Col K and I all have an active power which I described earlier in this thread. However, since Manders informed us that we had identical role PMs, none of us discussed our power in the thread. Thus, Red was not able to know what our Active Power was upon re-reading. If his Active Power truly works as described, why would he not be given the investigative ability as well?

The second thing that made me uneasy about his claim was the timing of his Active Power. He claims that he can use it Day or Night, but the ability that he inherits will wear off at the start of the next Day. Going into N1, the only two dead players were imopen2 and NightArcher. If he had chosen imopen2 as a N1 target, the inherited ability would have expired immediately upon the start of D2. I would have received the notification during the 3-4 day gap between the end of D1 and the end of N1.

But no, I received notification several minutes before D2 started, indicating that Red had targeted somebody on D2 (otherwise the ability would have already worn off). But, as I described above, he was in my QT several minutes before the official start of D2. He did not balk at me asking why he targeted Col K, only clarifying later. Perhaps he had targeted Col K with a mafia NK, and did not realize I was trying to be tricky into later.

The third thing I find troubling is the wording of his role PM. "Town Party Poser" seems contradictory. Why would a Town player be a Party Poser? The role strikes me as an independent role, especially since he can use his ability during the Day and again at Night. If he's a Town player, his role is extremely powerful. A 3-mason team plus a role like this would suggest that there is an extremely powerful mafia team somewhere.

Or maybe he's scum!

[hamfactorial]

Sorry gentlemen, upon rereading my post I noticed that I had confused the timing on D2 / Red joining my chat.

There were 3 minutes between start of D2 and me getting notification that Col K was dead and Red was in the chat. He wasn't already in the chat when D2 started, there was a sight delay.

I suppose it's possible that Red could have targeted io2/Col K and been given access to chat in the 3 minutes after D2 started, but I doubt it.

[RedNihilist]

Normally I'd be baffled, but after several games with you I've noticed that your decisions are generally pointed towards my defeat, especially when we're bot Town.
Now, I'll avoid asking questions about the whole timing thing because you're just losing your mind, I'll just make clear for the public that my comrade here, while not being at the best of his mental capabilities, is "absolutely confirmed as town committee" (sic).

Also, since he has hard claimed my role in detail, feel free to ask me any kind of question.

[hamfactorial]

I have a question: why did you kill Col K instead of me?

[RedNihilist]

I didn't kill anybody

[hamfactorial]

When did you target imopen2?

[hamfactorial]

I didn't target anybody, you racist.

Lies and deception

[Kraj]

Well I already thought Red was scum based on behavior, so it should be no surprise I think this just makes him look worse. Getting Col K's ability the same time he turns up dead, claiming not to have targeted anyone when he did, then explaining why he targeted Col K and later revising it to targeting imopen is pretty definitive. That's much scummier than the particulars of his role claim, but the ability doesn't sound at all like a town-only ability. A mafia who gains the abilities of who they kill would be a power level I'd expect against three confirmed masons.

The role strikes me as an independent role, especially since he can use his ability during the Day and again at Night.

An independent is certainly possible, and more likely than a third mafia. But isn't Red being the second mafia more likely?

I think at this point an independant is basically guaranteed.

Why? Maybe I'm missing something.