Rx Burn

[Khaospawn]

Geez that list is so greedy

How's it been doing?

[Purp]

Been grinding a bunch of modern decks the past month, and have found one i really enjoy. Grixis Delver. However, I can not bring myself to buy scalding tarns or the last two snaps I need, so I am going to be playing burn for modern states.

What do we think of the top4 wmcq list from cfb?

[deck]
Lands
3 x Bloodstained Mire
3 x Scalding Tarn
3 x Arid Mesa
2 x Wooded Foothills
3 x Sacred Foundry
2 x Stomping Ground
4 x Mountain
Creatures
4 x Goblin Guide
4 x Monastery Swiftspear
2 x Grim Lavamancer
4 x Eidolon of the Great Revel
Spells
4 x Lightning Bolt
4 x Lava Spike
2 x Shard Volley
3 x Atarka’s Command
1 x Skullcrack
4 x Searing Blaze
4 x Boros Charm
4 x Rift Bolt

Sideboard
2 x Molten Rain
2 x Skullcrack
3 x Destructive Revelry
1 x Relic of Progenitus
1 x Stony Silence
2 x Kor Firewalker
1 x Deflecting Palm
1 x Path to Exile
1 x Exquisite Firecraft
1 x Rending Volley
[/deck]

[Valdarith]

I like the 60.

[Purp]

how do we feel about stony silence? heading into states, you can expect to face hella affinity.


also, almost all grixis decks are boarding in vampiric link now. how would you board with that 75 vs grixis control?

[Valdarith]

Path to Exile is totally reasonable vs Grixis. I would actually replace a Rending Volley and a Relic for two more Path. I really don't like Rending Volley in Burn. Path serves a similar purpose, and though it can get countered vs Twin, they have to play around it until they have the counter backup along with their Twin. The earliest this can happen is turn five, and if you can't win by then, oh well.

Affinity and Tron can be a difficult matchup for Burn, so Stony Silence seems excellent there. I might even be tempted to play two if you expect enough of them.

[magicdownunder]

1-2 PtE should be enough against Grixis, I don't like Stony Silence but Robots is a common enough MU to run a hoser.

I'm surprised people are struggling against Tron with Burn.

- - - - -

Not concerned about Bloom, Auras, Folk and Griselshoul? I know Lee's burn dream was crushed during worlds by some of these list.

[Purp]

I don't believe there's anything you can do to improve the bloom match up especially when the bloom player is good with his deck.

[Purp]

Guy who top 64 Charlotte trying to convince Atlanta players to play vexing devil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG0THhT ... VCvojkvgiH

[Valdarith]

Video was hard to watch.

[Khaospawn]

Vexing Devil is good again, I think.

I played 5 games last night and lost all but 1. A bad night, yes, but I realized that I was only facing Zoo, Burn, and Grixis varieties. All decks that would be soft to the Devil.

[Khaospawn]

Probably gonna try this list next:
[deck]

Creature 16

4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Vexing Devil
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

Spells 24

1 Shard Volley
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
3 Searing Blaze
2 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm

Land 20

4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground

Sideboard 15

3 Destructive Revelry
1 Smash to Smithereens
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Skullcrack
3 Molten Rain
[/deck]

[magicdownunder]

I don't believe there's anything you can do to improve the bloom match up especially when the bloom player is good with his deck.

You could try 3-4x PtE - PtE is decent against many other decks as well (like Folk, Griselshoul, Company and Robots) just don't bring them all in vs Jund, Junk, Grixis.deck and they won't be a liability.

I've been testing Bridge against them as well... no enough rounds with it to confirm how well it goes yet.

[Khaospawn]

Against those decks you need help hitting your nutdraw and i think VD helps there.

[magicdownunder]

Against those decks you need help hitting your nutdraw and i think VD helps there.

VD is decent vs decks with limited removals and sweepers, its just that if your going to play Naya you might as well run Wild Nacatl over VD since they're even better then just 4-damage vs those decks with limited removals and sweepers (bloom and aura run Leylines as well which gives an extra + for the cat).

[LaZerBurn]

Not sure if anyone else is still playing - MDU? , Khaos? - but I've been playing a lot on MTGO recently. I ran Wild Nactyl for a while but I like Jasper Johnson-Epstein's list better

[deck=LaZer's Nacatl Burn]
Creature 18
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

Spells 24
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
2 Searing Blaze
1 Skullcrack

Land 19
2 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Copperline Gorge

Sideboard 15
3 Destructive Revelry
1 Deflecting Palm
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Searing Blaze
2 Skullcrack
2 Rending Volley
[/deck]

[deck=Jasper Johnson-Epstein's Naya Burn]
Creatures 15
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Vexing Devil

Burn 25
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
2 Searing Blaze
2 Skullcrack
1 Shard Volley

Land 20
3 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Mountain
1 Copperline Gorge

Sideboard
3 Destructive Revelry
1 Deflecting Palm
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Rending Volley
2 Path To Exile
2 Searing Blaze
1 Skullcrack
1 Electrickery
1 Grafdigger's Cage
[/deck]

[magicdownunder]

I'm still playing - just waiting for the next patch update since I already have tons of videos stocked up + 35 QP.

I also prefer Naya Burn over Nacatl Burn mainly because Jund/Junk (+company) is on the upscale.

[Platypus]

So Atarka's Command in the main is more or less the way to go these days?

[Valdarith]

My opinion (and the opinion of many high level burn players):

If you want to play Wild Nacatl, play Zoo. If you want to play a Zoo list that's pretty similar to Burn's playstyle, play the deck Cedric Phillips has been playing on Modern Super League. It's literally Patrick Sullivan's list card for card and he's been having a lot of success with it. I've been playing a slightly different list with good results too.

[Platypus]

A Zoo list without Tarmogoyf, I like that.

[LaZerBurn]

I much prefer Naya Burn over Nacatl Burn having played both builds a lot recently on MTGO. RW is also a very viable option for the reasons Khaos outlines in his Modern Burn Primer Part 3 https://www.wizardscupboard.com/wordpre ... er-part-3/

While I recommend reading all 3 articles this is the relevant bit on RW over Naya

"After much playtesting with the high-octane RWG Burn build using Atarka’s Command, I can say now that the card is the real deal. Command does it all by punching out absurd amounts of damage, preserving your team, and preventing life gain. In the right metagame, that extra power is certainly worth the cost of awkward manabase.

Note that awkward manabase. And sideboard. But what coherent plan does it have against other aggressive decks?

Now, it is completely feasible to run a RG Burn deck solely to take advantage of Atarka’s Command and Skullcrack, giving you access to 8 anti-lifegain cards in the main. Doing this means that you cannot take advantage of the powerful White splash, but it does make your manabase a lot less painful since you can run Copperline Gorge now.

With that said, I have decided to move on from the Green splash to pursue a more streamlined approach, one that is more consistent in keeping its life total high. As the metagame shifts into a more aggressive environment, the dilemma of having to construct a deck that is forced to move its colors around postboard is a bit confusing. White is still the most powerful splash the deck can play, as Boros Charm is a consistent 4 damage that also has the options to help your ground team, and Firewalker is just a serious beating against the mirror. Burn is becoming increasingly more common and a very aggressive version of Grixis Delver is now beginning to make it’s presence widely known. I don’t make that statement lightly, and both of these decks must be respected moving forward.

Recently, the post-Treasure Cruise U/R Delver decks picked up some steam with the additions of Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Gurmag Angler, and Kolaghan’s Command. I daresay that the deck now is probably more powerful than it was when Treasure Cruise existed. Capable of a super aggressive start, it can also play the control or tempo game until it closes out with a Banana Man or an army of Elemental tokens. Considering that the deck also sides in 2-4 Dragon’s Claw, it’s pretty easy to see why this deck is certainly worthy of our attention. Do you hurt yourself more just to play Firewalker and Destructive Revelry? Or do you cut the Green (and the pain) to focus solely on White, using Wear//Tear?

The less painful manabase of the strict RW Burn deck has also given me an incredible edge on MTGO, as I tend to often face a lot of Burn decks, especially the newest RWG Atarka’s Command versions. The ability to fix your colors effortlessly cannot be stressed enough. Sometimes, the less you thinking you have to do is enough to get you to win."

[magicdownunder]

If URx Delver is a huge problem in your timezone I would recommend just running 2x Fallout in your sideboard (I don't think its worth shifting into 2c just for this MU though I have nothing against RW(g)).

In regards with Kor vs Claw, Kor has won me many matches on his own against URx Twin, Delver and Control while claw is really only decent against the mirror.

[amcfvieira]

Great articles. Thanks Lazerburn.

[Khaospawn]

Man, I'd forgotten that I wrote all of that.

[amcfvieira]

Man, I'd forgotten that I wrote all of that.

I didn't realized that you wrote this. Thanks, it's great stuff.

[Platypus]

It's a great read, that's sure!

My current version:

[deck]
Land
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Stomping Ground
4 Mountain

Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer

Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Searing Blaze
2 Skullcrack

Sideboard
2 Skullcrack
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Rending Volley
2 Relic of Progenitus
[/deck]

It's based on the 2nd place deck from the SCG Premier IQ in Milwaukee a few weeks back. I did some playtesting with it with a friend so it was already assembled for last week's FNM. Went 4-0 with it, but the opposition was weak this time. A few new faces, and I got a bit lucky in the pairings against a few returning players that haven't played in a while. Faced a RW Soul Sisters homebrew, Ad Nauseam combo, something Abzan colored, and some UW Tron deck. But I like the list so far, so I will continue with slight variations on it.

Some thoughts:

- I like Atarka's Command better since I realized that the damage don't target. Helps against Leylines.
- The Searing Blaze/Skullcrack split between main deck and sideboard could just as well be 3/3+1/1, or 2/4+2. Depends on what I feel the metagame is like. We have an aggro-centered meta game locally, so I wanted the Blazes more.
- I could change one of the Skullcracks to a Shard Volley, and a Searing Blaze a Searing Blood. Again, depends a bit on the meta.
- The Rending Volleys and Relic of Progenitus are flex slots, could be Path to Exile and Molten Rain instead. I did want to try the Relics against my friend's Living End, but I'm not sure they're needed. So I'll probably go with 2 Path to Exile and 2 Molten Rain next time. I could even try a few Volcanic Fallouts.

[amcfvieira]

Some thoughts:

- I like Atarka's Command better since I realized that the damage don't target. Helps against Leylines.
- The Searing Blaze/Skullcrack split between main deck and sideboard could just as well be 3/3+1/1, or 2/4+2. Depends on what I feel the metagame is like. We have an aggro-centered meta game locally, so I wanted the Blazes more.
- I could change one of the Skullcracks to a Shard Volley, and a Searing Blaze a Searing Blood. Again, depends a bit on the meta.
- The Rending Volleys and Relic of Progenitus are flex slots, could be Path to Exile and Molten Rain instead. I did want to try the Relics against my fiend's Living End, but I'm not sure they're needed. So I'll probably go with 2 Path to Exile and 2 Molten Rain next time. I could even try a few Volcanic Fallouts.

I notice that you don't play Lightning Helix in your list and don't refer to the card in your another choices. In my heavy "Burn" meta I never consider run less than 3 in my 75. My favourite card against graveyard strategies in Modern, in special Living End decks, it's Faerie Macabre. The reasons are simple: we don't waste mana to cast (don't slow down our game), it's impossible to counter and can give you a creature with evasion in Living End matchup.
With your list of 2 Grim Lavamancer and 4 Searing Blaze I will play 2 or 3 more fetchs.

[Platypus]

I might have a third Scalding Tarn in the list, I can't remember right now. Anyway, that's all I have available red-wise so it'll have to do for now. 2x Lightning Helix are certainly an option, I'm not sure we have many other Burn players so it doesn't feel that necessary right now. Faerie Macabre might be ok I guess, Relic didn't feel like it did enough when I tried it so I'll probably just leave them at home in future and just try to race the Living End deck if I face it.

Edit: With fewer fetches one Searing Blood instead of the fourth Searing Blaze might be a good idea.

[Longtoe]

Hey fellow red mages. I haven't posted in a long time due to inability to play mtgo (children). I still play modern on paper with a local community. I recently took burn to a top 8 at Michigan SCG states recently. I went through the swiss portion dropping just 2 games one to burn mirror and one to living end. My list is over at starcitygames under Michigan states burn, Matthew Stevens. I ended up losing in the TOP 8 to Patrick Sullivan's version of Zoo in the hands of a competent pilot. I didn't read what deck my opponent was on due to my lack of paying attention and punted game three by fetching away the scryed top deck of a kor firewalker. I forgot how much information is on this site and I did lurk the week before states as I was deciding between Burn or Tokens to take to states. I just wanted to say thanks to MDU for his videos and the crew here for discussions on appropriate cards.

[Platypus]

I like your list, I'll probably try that one next Modern FNM.

[Whole]

grats on your top 8. Would you change anything in your board? It's very similar to mine, but I haven't updated mine in a while.

[Whole]

hmmm i got this hand twice just now, and i'd like y'all thoughts. would you keep or mull 1 land, 1 goblin guide, 2 grim lavamancer, 1 Bolt, 2 two-cmc burn spells

[Platypus]

I'd keep.

[Longtoe]

For that specific tournament I would switch the Firewalker to dragon's claw. Easier on the pain of the lands and there was an abundance of burn. I also think I would like an additional deflecting palm as it is an addition card against obnoxious decks like bogles. So in essence ditch the 3 firewalkers and go 2 claw and 1 palm.

[Whole]

do yall side in kor firewalker vs uwr control?

[magicdownunder]

I wouldn't unless your other options are really really horrible (PtE + Snapcaster make firewalker less impressive).

[Jack]

hmmm i got this hand twice just now, and i'd like y'all thoughts. would you keep or mull 1 land, 1 goblin guide, 2 grim lavamancer, 1 Bolt, 2 two-cmc burn spells

I never mulligan with burn unless I can't play a creature. This deck mulligans so fucking poorly, and the hand gets real good with another land or a 1 drop, so that's a keep.

[magicdownunder]

I never mulligan with burn unless I can't play a creature. This deck mulligans so fucking poorly, and the hand gets real good with another land or a 1 drop, so that's a keep.

We're only running 8-15 creatures at most so you'll be mulliganing often with that rule, I do however agree that the deck mulligans very poorly - thus I limit my mulligan's for 5 or more landers, I would like to mulligan 4 landers as well but mulling is horrible for burn so I just keep them as long as I have a creature somewhere in the 3 remaining action cards.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I'll mull 0 landers as well

[Jack]

I mean, there are keepable creature less hands, but I'm saying that if you can play a creature and the rest of your hand isn't like, 5 lands, you can potentially win a game with it.

[GoblinWarchief]

Now that there is the option to scry i think it is correct to be a little more aggressive with mulligans.
I always mulled 4 landers (unless they were very good like guide eidolon searing blaze) and now i will have no doubt anymore in doing so. This deck loses mostly due to flooding, so i prefer to keep one landers (unless they have almost only 2 cost spells) rather than 4 landers.

[Whole]

So I'm running straight RW burn with 20 lands & Destructive Revelry in the board. Is it better to run 3 Mountain, 4 Sacred Foundry, 1 Stomping Ground, 12 Fetch or 3 Mountain, 3 Sacred Foundry, 1 Stomping Ground, 13 Fetch...or is there a more optimal configuration?