[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[TBuzzsaw]

Boom.

[Mcdonalds]

Cool

[Valdarith]

jsilv - is CFB really out of stock on Ensoul Artifact or did you guys pull your stock away in anticipation of a price increase?

I'm not asking to demonize, I just want to know if there is a buyout going on. You guys, TCGPlayer, eBay, and SCG are all out.

[jsilv]

jsilv - is CFB really out of stock on Ensoul Artifact or did you guys pull your stock away in anticipation of a price increase?

I'm not asking to demonize, I just want to know if there is a buyout going on. You guys, TCGPlayer, eBay, and SCG are all out.

Sold out. TBF, it's not like we were sitting on a thousand of the things, we only had 80 at the start of the PT. People saw a sweet deck that they could put together on the cheap if they had Hangarbacks and bought us out*. We may put up more, but those will purely be from buys that we already received that we finished processing / store buys / already in the GP San Diego inventory.

*To clarify, no orders were placed for more than a playset of these.

[Valdarith]

I figured this was the case. I noticed the low stock last night and threw up a PSA on reddit and there were some wondering if it was demand - driven (myself included). Thanks!

[Kaitscralt]

jsilv - is CFB really out of stock on Ensoul Artifact or did you guys pull your stock away in anticipation of a price increase?

I'm not asking to demonize, I just want to know if there is a buyout going on. You guys, TCGPlayer, eBay, and SCG are all out.

Sold out. TBF, it's not like we were sitting on a thousand of the things, we only had 80 at the start of the PT. People saw a sweet deck that they could put together on the cheap if they had Hangarbacks and bought us out*. We may put up more, but those will purely be from buys that we already received that we finished processing / store buys / already in the GP San Diego inventory.

*To clarify, no orders were placed for more than a playset of these.

[Blackhound]

huuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Kaitscralt]

shut down the site

[Mcdonalds]

[Valdarith]

No! I just sent my buylist items to them!

[Kaitscralt]

i meant this site

[jsilv]

shut them all down.

[Mcdonalds]

Fuckin cancer merchants

[Valdarith]

i meant this site

It can't get much more barren than it already is.

[Kaitscralt]

when RDW wins the pro tour and there's no fos celebration (matching fedoras and punch spiked with Mountain Dew) you know that DTR is dead

[Valdarith]

Back to Sally!

[Khaospawn]

The fedoras roll by like tumbleweeds here.

[Platypus]

We have all secretly started playing Grixis and UB decks...

[Thrillho]

I have built a Small Presidents deck, so even that has gone to hell.

[LP, of the Fires]

More then anything, PT tilted me because the two decks me and my 'team' worked on where the best performing decks and I was hoping we could keep that shit under wraps till the GP.

As is, I've tested red and Thopters against everything and thopters wins slightly more with all the tech we added.

[Kaitscralt]

sorry, everyone in the universe figured those decks out as well.

[Valdarith]

Yeah even Kait was able to build the Thopter deck within 2 cards. Jeez...

[hamfactorial]

Thank the red gods for letting RDW win, so I could sell off my Eidolons at these grossly inflated prices

[Kaitscralt]

As a spike, I tend to resent anything in the design of the game that skews towards luck rather than skill, except when it's necessary. The upcoming rule change intended to alleviate mulligan luck makes me wonder whether the legend rule might change.

The thing about the legend rule that makes it more random is that there is a high penalty to drawing multiples, and whether you draw multiples is luck based. Of course, you can always just run one copy of a particular legend, and then you for sure won't draw any multiples. But inevitably there are legendary creatures that are good enough that you have to take the risk, and the correct deckbuilding decision is to go for the multiples. That deckbuilding decision is not the problem, the legend rule works great in the deckbuilding phase, deciding between 1, 2, 3, and 4 depends a lot on how good the legend is, whether you have Fling or other mitigating things in your deck to make drawing multiples more ok, and whether you think your opponents will kill your legend, and in which matchups they will kill it. That's all good stuff. But the deckbuilding phase of constructed is not the place where Magic is generally hurting for more strategic intensity (although that strategy gets crowdsourced, which is a huge dampening issue), it's the play phase that needs help, where decks vary in the number of meaningful sequencing choices and other decisions and don't always have enough. That's where the legend rule hurts. It's almost never hard to decide whether to cast a Legendary creature while you control a legendary creature with the same name: don't. So the rule is removing a choice, with no legendary rule, it is a meaningful choice to decide whether to cast Isamaru, Hound of Konda or Mother of Runes when you already control a hound and a mother. With the legendary rule, the choice is trivial.
Alongside that choice removal, a powerful luck factor is added, where a player who draws multiples of a legendary randomly faces a disadvantage against another player, possibly playing the exact same decklist, who drew creatures with a variety of names instead. It's an unnecessary addition of luck onto tournament playable cards that don't need it, as unsuitable as if Lightning Strike or Lightning Bolt was printed with a Mana Clash stapled onto the cards effect.
Surprisingly the legend rule isn't even something that is randomly good. Randomly good often divides players, with some finding it enjoyable and others arguing that the luck is too hurtful to skillful play. Cascade was an example of that, and it still might be reprinted because it does give the Timmy in you a good time. Randomly bad doesn't generally make anyone happy, so it's kind of surprising we still have the rule, really. An example of a randomly bad effect would be Gamble, and it's necessary to pick a card that old because Wizards knows players don't enjoy it when their own cards randomly fail them.

The GOOD thing about the legendary rule is that it's flavorful. I dig that, and I get that, and I like it, or liked it, back when it actually provided any flavor. But now we see Dragonlord Silumgar and Silumgar, the Drifting Death, in consecutive sets, with sufficiently similar uses that they end up on the battlefield at the same time. If letting each player have one legendary creature apiece didn't erode the idea of a legendary creature's unique identity enough, WotC's apparent need to print back to back versions of the same legendary identity destroys what's left of the flavor. The mechanical issues used to be an acceptable cost for the flavor benefits, but now there's little to no flavor benefits left.


Right now I see a few possibilities:

1.) Change the legendary rule to a singleton deck construction rule. This replaces one randomness problem with another randomness problem, but a much less severe one: a legendary might be really powerful for your deck, but you only inconsistently draw the singleton. But that's much less severe, drawing a second best creature instead your singleton legend might unexpectedly cause you to produce like 2 less damage of pressure, while drawing multiple legendaries can result in Mind Roting yourself, or at least an Unsummon's worth of tempo if you waste mana waiting around for your legendary creature to die so you can play another.

2.) Just remove the legendary rule. The shred of flavor benefit it was providing is gone, but now constructed is much more consistent and skillbased.

3.) Stop printing renames of the same legendary identity in back-to-back sets if you're going to keep the existing legendary rule. This can bring some of the legend flavor back at least for Standard. However WotC can only print one card for legend, so there is some loss of upside, the lore and cards from the Tarkir block went to a lot of effort to explain who Silumgar is, if they did all that effort only to put him on one mythic arguably that sucks a little bit.

[Alex]

I'm just here for the fedoras.

[Mcdonalds]

Tell us about mystical teachings next

[Valdarith]

1) would ruin Death and Taxes, 2) would make it ridiculously good.

I think the legendary rule is fine, but I like the approach you took in your argument.

[Valdarith]

UR Artifacts I can see having even an iota of hope for remaining under wraps, but the RDW build is pretty obvious.

It's also actually a red deck I can endorse. The creatures, for the most part, aren't boring pieces of shit. Most of the spells are interesting. I love everything about Exquisite Firecraft. If Eidolon didn't cost a billion dollars for a card that's rotating in negative five days (neither of those are exaggerations) I might even build it and go to an FNM for once.

You can borrow my playset of foil Eidolons.





















Just kidding. You can't.

[Kaitscralt]

1) would ruin Death and Taxes, 2) would make it ridiculously good.

I think the legendary rule is fine, but I like the approach you took in your argument.

[Mcdonalds]

That deck needs more card advantage, not more Thalias

[Kaitscralt]

I can currently loop Thoughtseize with Den Protector and nobody is really bothered by that interaction besides some control players.
Last Standard season was dominated by a Mono-Black deck which discarded and killed everything you had and then beat you down it just played a Turn 2 Pack Rat against you which was potentially game over already.
In Innistrad-RTR Standard Im sure the most "unfun" card was Bonfire of the Damned. "I navigated the entire game carefully and eventually came out ahead and was about to win but then my opponent topdecked Bonfire of the Damned..." is a common story from that time.
You mention a card like Reap Intellect and yet UW got Sphinx's Revelation and BR got Rakdos's Return. When these spells resolved in big numbers you were guaranteed to not have any fun anymore.

Even leaving this topic alone there are also other things that just bother me.
What's for example up with Duskmantle Seer? Why is this card bad? Yeah we get it that Dark Confidant is far too powerful but having that text on a 4 mana mythic rare gold card is even too much to ask? Yeah but let's give Orzhov or Selesnya ridiculously good and pushed cards like Obzedat, Ghost Council, Blood Baron of Vizkopa or Voice of Resurgence.
What's up with Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker? Doesn't the title "Mind Drinker" imply that you gain something? Nope, just another card with some useless mill slapped on. At least he is a 5 mana 2/4 flyer. Still better than a rare sorcery that just mills like Mind Grind.
Dimir was terrible as a whole in the entire RTR block. I have trouble remembering even a single Dimir card that saw serious play. Cipher was completely unplayable.
I even played a pre-release event choosing Dimir and of course I got steamrolled because Dimir was full of bad cards while the people choosing Boros had an easy way to victory because their cards where so good they just crushed everyone.

Bah, it's just so annoying.

[Kaitscralt]

So I have this awkward thing going on. As you can see my decks that I currently own are Jund, Abzan Company, Abzan Midrange and Grixis Control. Im also planning to invest into Standard again by building that sweet BG Demonic Pact deck.
Now here comes the thing. I actually hate what red and green stand for and what they value. I mean green is the enemy of my favorite color which is black yet I find myself gravitating to these kind of decks that are in BG/x colors and which are often reminiscent of the original "The Rock" deck.
Philosophically speaking my favorite colors are black then blue and lastly white so Im in the Esper realm but yet every time I play decks of that color combination I quit them soon after since I just don't find them as enjoyable. It's just really funny how that works for me.

Im interested if Im the only one with this "problem" or if there are others too who find themselves playing colors constantly which they actually don't like that much.

[Mcdonalds]

Yes you are

[Midnight_v]

So I have this awkward thing going on. As you can see my decks that I currently own are Jund, Abzan Company, Abzan Midrange and Grixis Control. Im also planning to invest into Standard again by building that sweet BG Demonic Pact deck.

Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion

c'mere. I'm so glad to see you suffering, and red decks winning. You've made my day.

[Kaitscralt]

I posted a question a week or so ago regarding deck checks at high level tournaments (inquiry what judges check on when doing a deck check) a week or two ago. I posted that question after encountering some incredibly high quality "proxies" from China. I have now encountered even more of these "proxies" over the past week. The quality of the "proxies" is incredibly high and the only distinguishing feature between them and real cards is that the cards have a glossier finish to them and some (not all, SOME) of the cards show variations in color. In sleeves, however, the cards are indistinguishable from the real thing. They are so nice that some "proxies" were sleeved and mixed in with a deck, the deck was given to me to peruse (in the sleeves), and I was unable to distinguish the real cards from the "proxies". This coupled with watching some videos on YouTube of people making actual proxies (nothing that would ever pass for the real thing, not because the quality is bad, but because the art is different) got me to thinking the following....

There are people at home all across the world that can make their own Magic "proxies". You can easily buy "proxies" from China. These "proxies", especially when sleeved, are nearly identical to the real thing. At some point someone is going to perfect the art and real cards will be absolutely indistinguishable from "proxies". However, in the meantime, I have come to believe 100% that there are fakes, "proxies", and forgeries of one stripe or another being played with at FNMs, at local Legacy and Modern tournies, at SCG and other higher level events, and likely even on the Pro Tour.

How often have you shown up to an FNM on the day of a release only to find that one of your opponents already has every single copy in their deck of some highly sought after Mythic Rare from the new set? There is a finite number of real, old school dual lands, but how is it that more and more people are showing up to play Legacy with all the required duals and everything else necessary to play?

I have come to believe that fake cards are everywhere. They might not be traded and sold en masse yet, because the technology isn't quite there (at least of the ones that I've known have been proxies), but in sleeves where they are virtually indecipherable from the real thing?

So what do you think? Have you ever encountered someone in a tournament that you believe or suspect was playing with fakes? Has anyone ever been busted? How often have you had a deck check performed against you? Anyone care to admit ever having played with known fakes? Have you ever played or owned a card that you believed to be real and only later realized (perhaps when trading it or selling it to someone) that it was a fake?

In all my years of playing Magic I have only been deck checked one time. In the past I have played with (in black backed sleeves) Collector's and International Edition cards whose corners had been rounded- they weren't rebacked, they still had the gold CE/IE borders, but with the black sleeves no one had a clue. This was in a low level local tournament.

Every Vintage Magic tournament that I am aware of currently allows proxy cards. Proxies are used regularly and knowingly in EDH/Commander, 5-Color, and some of the other "casual", alternate formats. I know of local Legacy scenes that have now jumped on board and allow unlimited proxies.

In my view, WOTC has specifically facilitated this problem with the Reserved List, but we are now seeing cards that are not on the reserved list "proxied". Everything from Tarmogoyf and Jace the Mind Sculptor to Splinter Twin and Ugin the Spirit Dragon and all Mythics and Rares and a lot of uncommons and commons in between.

If a card reaches a high price, why wouldn't one look for a cheaper option?


What is more important? The game or one's collection value?

And I will leave you with one more thought....

If the "fake" is as good as the real thing... Is it really a "fake"?

[hamfactorial]

It's MagicMage

[Valdarith]

OMG a mill deck won the GP. Call the cops!

[Valdarith]

I've totally been playing it online too.

[Mcdonalds]

Mother of god...

[Valdarith]

It reminds me of my time with Drownyard control except I don't get to play Snapcaster Mage and my wincon can be countered.