[Primer] UR Delver

[rcwraspy]

Make a starting hand with your favorite 6 spells and reef as your only land. Randomize rest of deck and see what happens. I bet it's not good.

[Valdarith]

You absolutely need to be running at least 8 fetches.

[zemanjaski]

Zem, how would you rate the caliber of players you are playing against? Your W:L ratio is insane.

My core test group are PT players (I'm the least accomplished player in the group). Melbourne has the strongest mtg scene in the country; but obviously player skill varies greatly. I'd describe more than half of my matches over the weekend as "challenging".

I think I'm a high 60s to very low 70s winrate player, but I've often got the best deck at any given tournament over the last few years. My focus during the last thereto four months has been on improving my mechanical play to match my deck building and it's showing results!

[Purp]

I'm differnet from you Plat... I have 4 of every fetchland, but only 1 tarn...which is why I'm curious how much replacing them with flooded strands or mesa/foothills etc would really hurt me

[zemanjaski]

It probably costs you 1-1.5% against the field. It's great to fetch for a mountain but most games don't come down to a race.

[Valdarith]

I'm differnet from you Plat... I have 4 of every fetchland, but only 1 tarn...which is why I'm curious how much replacing them with flooded strands or mesa/foothills etc would really hurt me

If you just want to get some practice in with the deck at FNM or even IQ-level events, go for it. I would not play in any event higher than that without Tarns though.

[zemanjaski]

I think I fetches the Mountain three times over the weekend and it was definitely a losing play to not be able to fetch it once (which would've lost me the match). It might be more important than I realised.

[Platypus]

You absolutely need to be running at least 8 fetches.

Well, sure. I intend to some more eventually. The question is what to run instead in the meantime at the occational FNM tournaments I go to.

I think I'll go with 2 Shivan Reef and 2 Gemstone Mine this Friday and see what happens.

[rcwraspy]

Thoughts on a bug variant? Tarmogoyf and abrupt decay both seem silly strong right now. Having issues nailing down creatures 8-12 though. Tombstalker is good but having 6+ delve spells is a bit much alongside goyf. V-clique also good but don't want more than 2.

Snapcaster is another option of course but I feel his value diminishes if you don't have bolt.

Edit: golgari charm strong now too.

[zemanjaski]

Funny, I was talking about this yesterday with DXI-Edge. I came up with Ooze plus Clique (20 land). Dark Blast and a small amount of discard are good too; I looked at Dimir Charm and Sultai Charm also.

Losing bolt is a big loss, and you're weaker to Burn also.

It's an idea worth exploring IMHO.

[Calamity]

What sort of UR build would you guys recommend for a completely open and random meta? It's pretty difficult to predict what will show up in my local meta, with different people bringing different decks every week. Even though i like the DTT/snapcaster builds more, I think the swiftspear/cruise version would be better if I have no idea what I'm going to be playing against since i can put out a faster clock and kill them before their plan can get off the ground.

[Valdarith]

In an open meta, play what you're comfortable playing.

[zemanjaski]

The Snapcaster version is I my good if you're very experienced with Modern as the deck succeeds on fails on difficult evaluative scenarios - without a lot if exoerience you can't value your cards properly.

[Calamity]

I've been playing Modern for awhile (about a year on and off), but most of my experience is on Scapeshift (formerly the RG titan version, now the RUG with four DTT's). I'm trying to practice as much Delver as I can as the archetype fascinates and excites me but hasn't been real strong in Modern until KtK came out (and i don't have the volcanics/FoW's for the legacy version lol).

[rcwraspy]

Funny, I was talking about this yesterday with DXI-Edge. I came up with Ooze plus Clique (20 land). Dark Blast and a small amount of discard are good too; I looked at Dimir Charm and Sultai Charm also.

Losing bolt is a big loss, and you're weaker to Burn also.

It's an idea worth exploring IMHO.

Good to know. I had assumed 20 land also. I may value disfigure over darkblast main since it's easier and broader, though dredge plus delve is nice. Good call on ooze - hadn't considered it.

[zemanjaski]

Something like:

12 creatures
20 land

4 Abrupt Decay
1 Dark Blast
1 Dimir Charm
1 Doom Blade
1 Golgari Charm
1 Sultai Charm
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Mana Leak
4 Serum Visions
4 Treasure Cruise
2 Thoughtscour

[rcwraspy]

This is the spell package I initially considered:

4x abrupt decay
1x countersquall
3x disfigure
1x golgari charm
2x mana leak
4x remand
4x serum visions
1x spell Pierce
2x spell Snare
2x thought scour
4x treasure cruise

Maybe discard is just stronger than that much permission. Also counter squall is probably bad but wanted to see for sure.

[Valdarith]

I guess the 12 creatures are Goyf, Snappy, and Delver?

Needs Raven's Crime.

[LP, of the Fires]

Countersquall actually seems very powerful.

[MattT]

Funny, I was talking about this yesterday with DXI-Edge. I came up with Ooze plus Clique (20 land). Dark Blast and a small amount of discard are good too; I looked at Dimir Charm and Sultai Charm also.

Losing bolt is a big loss, and you're weaker to Burn also.

It's an idea worth exploring IMHO.

Side comment on the Grixis archetype post some testing. Path to Exile and other removal is a bother that you escape with the Bloodsoaked Champ/Bloodghast/Darkblast line. It´s priceless to see the opponents expression when I Darkblast my own Ghast or Champ in response to removal. And guess what, I can always get Blast back all the while I get more Ghasts and Champs into the grave plus getting nearer Delving. Lightning Bolt & Thought Scour on top of that alongside a drip of Doom Blades/derivates for Ooze/Goyfs/random fatties is the skeleton so far. It´s very easy to amass quite and army by only Scouring and dredging Blasts. The bother is balancing the remaining spell suite and support critters. Tombstalkers/Snapcasters/Swiftspears/Delver?

Short list

Bloodsoaked Champion
Bloodghast
Darkblast
Lightning Bolt
Thought Scour
Delve card(s)

[rcwraspy]

Countersquall actually seems very powerful.

If the mana base starts with 2-4 darkslick shores then it has potential.

[rcwraspy]

Hrm, if Delver and goyf are creatures 1-8 and we have a hard time pinning down 9-12, what about bitterblossom?

[DXI-Edge]

what would be really fun is Bloodghast and Thoughtscour with Treasure Cruise and Delver and Goyf and Abrupt Decay and Darkblast

[rcwraspy]

This list day 2'd GP Madrid:

[deck]
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacomb
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Creeping Tar Pit

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

3 Liliana of the Veil

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
1 Remand
4 Doom Blade
4 Treasure Cruise

Sideboard
2 Dimir Charm
2 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Thoughtseize
2 Spellskite
2 Disfigure
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Threats of Disloyalty
[/deck]

Not a very big fan of some of the decisions, like no MD Abrupt Decay. I feel that card is reason number 1 to play BUG colors. The 4 MD Doom Blade are the replacement, and they're very risk/reward susceptible. For instance Siege Rhino is gaining ground in Modern (then again Decay can't hit it either). I also want something uncounterable if I'm killing flipped delvers and swiftspears.

[Calamity]

Young pyromancer let me come back from one life against a Wu hatebears deck that cast all 4 of this Thalia's on one game tonight

also there seems to be a LOT of batterskull around where i play, going to try running some smash to smithereens in my SB

[DXI-Edge]

I'm finding against Scapeshift and the new Pyroclasm decks, and vs. Pod having Swiftspear has been very helpful.

I'm actually moving towards the Swiftspears main, just trying to decide on 4 cruise or a mix of Cruise/Digs.

But I missed having 8 Delvers, thats for sure.

[Jojja]

I have just started playing U/R Delver and I'm going a slightly different route then you guys seem to be. I'm a very aggressive player and found the more reactive style of delver that most "stock" decks run to not really fit my play-style. When I was cantripping or cruising I was just drawing more cantrips so I added more threats to the deck and I feel like it's been working better for me. I'm not really sure about the Mana Leaks in the deck and I'll be testing them out some more, but they may end up being cut for Spell Pierce and Spell Snare from the side. That would free up some more slots there, and I'm thinking about adding 2 Sudden Shock instead. Having burn that can't be countered seems like something the deck would want while keeping up pressure.

I'm not running Scalding Tarn for monetary reasons but other then that is there any thoughts on my deck or anyone with experience running the more aggro oriented U/R Delver style?

[deck]
Instant (10)

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Mana Leak
2x Remand

Sorcery (18)

2x Forked Bolt
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Lava Spike
4x Serum Visions
4x Treasure Cruise

Creature (15)

4x Delver of Secrets Flip
4x Goblin Guide
4x Monastery Swiftspear
3x Young Pyromancer

Land (17)

4x Flooded Strand
2x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
4x Steam Vents
2x Wooded Foothills


Sideboard (15)

3x Dragon's Claw
2x Electrickery
3x Smash to Smithereens
3x Spell Pierce
2x Spell Snare
2x Combust

[/deck]

[Valdarith]

I think you'd be better off playing Burn.

[Valdarith]

When you have Lava Spikes in the main of your UR Delver deck and Goblin Guides that nonbo with your Mana Leaks you end up just playing a bad Burn deck.

[Valdarith]

[deck]
4 monastery swiftspear
4 delver of secrets
4 young pyromancer
1 snapcaster mage

4 lightning bolt
2 forked bolt
4 serum visions
4 gitaxian probe
3 vapor snag
2 spell pierce
2 spell snare
4 remand
4 treasure cruise

4 scalding tarn
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
4 steam vents
3 island
1 mountain
[/deck]

If I were going the aggressive route I'd run something like this.

[vieko]

Should my beloved Burn Deck spontaneously combust and I had no other choice but to play Delver, this seems aggressive enough to be considered: http://themeadery.org/articles/delver-now ... All joking aside, what do you guys think?

[Valdarith]

I think the idea is sound. It's something I'd be willing to try out with some small adjustments. I think Gut Shot is good but not 4-of good.

[cloudscraper]

This top8d a 120 ppl tournament here in Italy today

[deck]4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Pack Rat

3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
2 Darkblast
4 Treasure Cruise
2 Disfigure
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Darkslick Shores

Sideboard:
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Seal of Primordium
2 Deathmark
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Flashfreeze
1 Dispel
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Negate
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Annul[/deck]

[rcwraspy]

huh. There are changes I'd make based on personal choices (like dropping down to 9 fetches to add a 3rd Darkslick Shore and turning Darkblast #2 into Abrupt Decay #4) but it's interesting that they landed on Pack Rat as creatures 9-X. Seems to have synergy with both Delve and 'Goyf and we all know how it can snowball if unanswered. I like going to 19 lands because of the Rat too. I think that's an interesting list.

[Nezeru]

Why is Young Pyromancer always conspicuously absent from these lists? Also, has anyone else considered Delver, Jeskai Ascendancy, Stoke the Flames? (or maybe Delverless with just Pyromancers and maybe Fatestitchers...wait, that's a Legacy deck)

[RedNihilist]

This top8d a 120 ppl tournament here in Italy today

[deck]4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Pack Rat

3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
2 Darkblast
4 Treasure Cruise
2 Disfigure
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Darkslick Shores

Sideboard:
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Seal of Primordium
2 Deathmark
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Flashfreeze
1 Dispel
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Negate
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Annul[/deck]

Are you by any chance Falconetti? I think I've seen him play something like this at GP Milan.

[Whole]

Does anyone think a competitive Delver list with Temporal Trespass can pop up now that T Cruise is banned?

[zemanjaski]

No.

[Kaitscralt]

No place for Trespass

The better question is if Tasigur finds a place in Modern

[Kaitscralt]

To better answer the question, 11 Delve mana is way to steep for just a Time Walk, which sometimes equates just a cantrip. Add on top of it the triple blue and you have an unplayable card in essentially every format, even Limited.