[Primer] UR Delver

[LP, of the Fires]

Gotta get those hits.

[zemanjaski]

Yup.
Anyway, trialling some new stuff this weekend, will report back.

[rezombad]

Ive got an article about Treasure Cruise being a joke coming out tonight. CFB asked for me to write it immediately.

solid read.

[zemanjaski]

TY. Finished 2nd in an event today, was unable to draw a second piece of removal in game 3 of the final and succumbed to two top decked Master of Waves. Deck is fine though, magic happens.

[zemanjaski]

Going to write a UR Delver primer in two parts for CFB, would love to get some input.

outline;

PART 1: Deck Construction
- auto includes: delver, snapcaster, pyromancer, lightning bolt, remand, gitaxian probe, serum visions, treasure cruise (brief overview of all of them)
- flex slots (1 mana counters, extra removal, cantrips and creatures
- building the right mana base for your variant
- building a sideboard (and which sideboard cards are good, vs which seem good)
- putting it all together

PART 2: Playing the deck
- understanding role and flags for when role changes
- how to sideboard and how sideboarding effects role
- mulligan decisions
- how to value your cards according to role
- general advice and tips

What do you think? What am I missing? What would you like to see addressed?

[Toddington]

Looking forward to that! Sounds very thorough.

[DXI-Edge]

Ideas for sideboard cards for specific strategies rather than side boarding overall. Similar to Alex Majlatons "encyclopedia" article would probably be more helpful

[LP, of the Fires]

Addressing Monastery swiftspear. Doesn't matter whether you like it or not, just mention it.

[rcwraspy]

Personally I agree that YP is an auto-include, but some people still insist on running the Hoogland Spellstutter Sprite Delver list. Maybe mention it briefly and why you choose the YP version over it?

[Calamity]

Personally I agree that YP is an auto-include, but some people still insist on running the Hoogland Spellstutter Sprite Delver list. Maybe mention it briefly and why you choose the YP version over it?

I wouldn't think the mana base would support running the mutavaults needed to make SSS worth it now that you're running so many fetches so fuel cruise.

I also think YP is just straight up a better card in a deck with cruise.

I could be totally wrong though

[zemanjaski]

You're mostly running too few land to have enough coloured sources AND Mutavaults. You're also incentivised to have a more proactive posture to fuel treasure cruise. Finally YP and SSS aren't remotely close in power level.

[rcwraspy]

Agree on all points. I just know that whenever I break out my UR Delver deck I get asked why I'm playing YP over SSS. Thought it might be worth a quick mention, but obviously it's your call.

[zemanjaski]

I was responding to Calamity, didn't see your post sorry.

[Calamity]

okay, so we basically agree then Zem.

though you ended up answering rcwrapsy's question too

[zemanjaski]

Should be up later this week; thanks for input.

[Nezeru]

This deck is absurd now. Treasure Cruise is terrible against blue Tron, but that was already unfavorable and not popular, so hopefully becoming favored against two bad matchups is worth losing points to a fringe deck.

I tested against Jund a lot over the weekend and won every single match. It wasn't even close.

I'm still testing the Swiftspear because it just kills people and lets us race Burn, but I'm not sold on it being good or bad yet. Certainly you can't run it and Remand in the same deck, which is a red flag.

Treasure Cruise is so insane, I added the fourth copy to my main deck over the weekend and cast it turn 3 and turn 5 of the same game.

Edit - it might be worth a mention that the Swiftspear is actually insane in our bad Tron matchups.

[zemanjaski]

I improved to 3-1 in the modern league, beating Kiki Pod 3-0 last night. I do think my SB needs an overhaul (which yes, I've been saying for a while now...) and two electrolyze main is very likely too greedy.

[Nezeru]

I haven't lost a match yet in testing, just won 2-0 over UWR Kiki, which used to be a terrible matchup (at least, I never did well in it). I'm up to 4 Treasure Cruise maindeck, and casting them turns 3 and 5 is not uncommon.

Current list:
[deck]
Creatures: 14
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Delver of Secrets (sorry, I like having 8 1-drops in my aggressive deck that runs 19 lands)
3 Young Pyromancer (respect)
3 Snapcaster Mage (maybe 2 is better)

Sorceries: 12
4 Treasure Cruise
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe

Instants: 15
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Vapor Snag (great with Swiftspear, fine vs Tron, never really dead)
3 Spell Pierce (on the fence about this card, it's been good, but I miss Remand, so I might try fitting that back in. It's hard to justify Remand and Swiftspear in the same deck, unfortunately. Remand is bad in some matchups, though)
2 Burst Lightning
1 Twisted Image (this is surprisingly relevant, and fine to use on a Swiftspear to do +2 damage and draw a card for one mana)
1 Electrolyze (the greed)

Lands: 19
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
4 Steam Vents
3 Island
1 Mountain

Sideboard: 15
1 Vedalken Shackles
2 Counterflux
3 Pillar of Flame (burn to the face seems more relevant than Magma Spray, and my deck is sorcery speed anyway)
2 Dispel
2 Grim Lavamancer (has been underperforming, maybe I'll try Flashfreeze or something instead)
3 Shattering Spree (just replaced Ancient Grudge and swapped Stomping Ground in the manabase for the fourth Steam Vents, still testing)
2 Combust
[/deck]

The sideboard can probably change dramatically. On paper, I still run a Keranos and Batterskull on the board.

Monastery Swiftspear has actually been amazing in testing, though I had very low expectations for the card. I understand it takes the deck in a different direction (and I hate not running Remand as much as the next guy) but I've also never been a fan of 4x Remand in any Modern deck, so it's been a straight swap for Spell Pierce to keep the 1cmc trend going. One of the reasons for Shattering Spree on the board is getting around Chalice on 1 and 2, something Grudge can't do. Also, it kills more artifacts, and I still don't mind it being a sorcery much in my list.

Jeff Hoogland has a UWR version with Dig Through Time, and perhaps Dig > Cruise in a non-Swiftspear list(though one mana vs two is a big difference) so that might be worth testing.

[zemanjaski]

In not against Dig at all; I've been thinking about it a lot.

[Valdarith]

Dig is really good, but I really like the 1 mana for Cruise. It's possible that for lists without Swiftspear, Dig is better, but so far I've really enjoyed Cruise in my non Swiftspear build.

[DXI-Edge]

Am I crazy for contemplating Rabblemaster as a 2-of?

[Valdarith]

Yes.

[zemanjaski]

What's your board Val? I might be getting to the point of overthinking everything (classic Zem).

[zemanjaski]

Should post mine:

2 Blood Moon
1 Combust
1 Counterflux
1 Dispel
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Magma Spray
1 Negate
2 Shatterstorm
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Vedalken Shackles

[Valdarith]

2 grim lavamancer
2 dispel
1 flame slash
2 magma spray
2 combust
2 negate
1 counterflux
2 electrolyze
1 shatterstorm

Tuned for a meta heavy in Affinity, Twin, and UWR Control.

Like you, I'm constantly questioning my sideboard. If I were to go into a big tournament like a GP, I would consider touching green for Ancient Grudge and EE. It wouldn't be so much for Affinity as it would be for more fringe decks like Boggles and anything running Chalice of the Void. I anticipate that card seeing more play if Delver increases in popularity and I want an out to a resolved one because I'm risk averse (perhaps to a fault).

[zemanjaski]

Yeah, seems allogical.

Thinking about it, besides from affinity hate, UR doesn't really have access to cards that blow MUs wide open, like decks with access to white do. We just don't have the crazy SB cards, so our sideboarding is more about minor upgrades; turning a slightly favourable my into a moderately favourable one basically.

That kinda sucks because that's the nut low of sideboard use, but it's symptomatic of the colour pair AND the cards in the deck being universally insane to at worst fine against very deck.

Something I'll ponder further and let you guys know.

[Valdarith]

Yep, that's about right. You're usually just swapping out cards that are average in a matchup for cards that are above average to very good, which can be difficult to accept since blowout sideboard cards that tend to win the game on their own are so popular in Modern (Blood Moon, Leyline of Sanctity, Shatterstorm, Back to Nature, Suppression Field, Stony Silence immediately come to mind). We're more about boarding for efficiency than blowout potential.

[Jack]

I'm actually much more comfortable sideboarding this way. With decks that tend to play more blowout cards (white aggro, Gifts Tron), you're cutting consistency for power often, and it's hard to determine when that's the right thing to, and to what extent you should do it against certain decks. Here, rather than boarding in hate, our sideboard plans enhance our ability to play out our desired strategy in each match up, so the deck's ability to perform well in games 2 and 3 increases significantly with better understanding of the key parts of the match up. Maybe I was just forced to learn to like it from playing red against Thragtusk for a year.

[Nezeru]

You could sideboard into Twin, but the problem is that Twin and Delver tend to have very similar matchups.

Another option is sideboarding into Blue Moon, but the problem is that Blue Moon and Delver tend to have very similar matchups.

...Also, I played against a guy who was playing white strictly for sideboard cards, so that's a thing too apparently. Touching green for Grudge just makes a good matchup better (and red has a preponderance of effective artifact hate anyway) while touching white gives you Leyline of Sanctity for the Burn matchup (or you can just run Dragon's Claw, which is excellent from our deck full of red spells) and some other matchups, Geist of Saint Traft for shoring up UWR and Tron matchups, and some other options. Wear/Tear is a great card as well.

[zemanjaski]

We should board Hellrider because nostalgia.

[zemanjaski]

Also because it kills people super quickly.

[DXI-Edge]

All the lists performing on MODO seem to be running Monastery Swiftspear...

[Nezeru]

1-1 in the Daily after playing Burn twice, and I've caved and added Dragon's Claws to the board.
Streaming at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru

Here's the list I'm running right now:
[deck]
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage

4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Treasure Cruise
1 Pillar of Flame

4 Vapor Snag
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Pierce
2 Twisted Image
1 Burst Lightning

Sideboard
2 Counterflux
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Vedalken Shackles
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Shattering Spree
2 Combust
2 Dispel
[/deck]

2-1 so far, just beat an Ally deck in r3 (didn't know that was a thing at all)

Ended up 2-2

New sideboard: 3 Dragon's Claw, 12 other cards

Results:
Burn 2-1
Burn 0-2
Allies 2-1
Burn 0-2

WTF was that lol

[zemanjaski]

Worth noting and testing; also please be mindful that Eidolon of the Great Revels was better than Young Pyromancer according to the hivemind ~ needs more testing!

[Nezeru]

Turn 3 kill fast enough for Modern from a Delver deck?

http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru/c/5304505

[GoblinWarchief]

A friend of mine runs a swiftspear list with a 1-of dynacharge maindeck and a couple mutagenic growths ..... dynacharge wins games in some occasions an i think could be a nice surprise tech.... i don't like growth but it can save swiftspears/flipped delvers from a bolt.

He also runs unified will in sideboard, but really it can be sided in safely in very few matchups.

By the way, i'm writing here because i would like to play u/r delver when i manage to trade my tarmogoyf for 4 snaps and acquire the scalding tarns... in the mean time i learn from you all

[Jedi]

Some things I've noticed with the deck:

1) needs more threats. I'm going up to 4 Pyromancers most likely. On that note...
2) Grim Lavamancer is pretty meh game 1. Which is scary because we need more threats. To compensate:

I agree on both of these points. I posted earlier that I moved from UR to RUg and it's mostly because of this. At the risk of some flaming (since I know this is the UR thread), I'll post my current/evolving list:

[deck=Jedi's RUg Delver]
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique

Spells
2 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
2 Flame Slash
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
4 Serum Visions
2 Simic Charm
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare

Plansewalkers
1 Jace, Architect of Thought

Lands
2 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
6 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground

Sideboard
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Combust
2 Counterflux
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Thrun, the Last Troll[/deck]

This deck has a harder time against aggro decks as it plays as more of a control deck. I went RUg mostly to replace YP with Tarmogoyf for exactly the reason DXI stated (yes, I'm aware it doesn't play well with Snappy.) Jace is a test card I put in there pre KTK. I'm considering Treasure Cruise for it and an Electrolyze. If I do this, I may remove 2 of the Snapcasters for something else (unsure what yet.)

Constructive criticism/advise is welcomed. I'd be happy to discuss card decisions if anyone's interested too. As I said, it's an evolving list, but I've been putting up consistent 4-0/3-1 results at my LGS's weekly Modern events.

[Nezeru]

Why the 2 Flame Slash, 2 Simic Charm, Jace, and more Mana Leak than Remand?

[Jedi]

Why the 2 Flame Slash, 2 Simic Charm, Jace, and more Mana Leak than Remand?

I have more Mana Leaks because they actually counter the spell vs Remand's delay. The 4 damage from Flame Slash has been pretty relevant. Jace was/is a test card. I've only played him once and it won me the game; I've had it dead in hand a couple of times though too. I'm not really sold on it. I want to use Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time because I could really use some extra card draw, but I'll need to make some other changes for them to make it into my main 60. Simic Charm is legit. I have used each mode on that card multiple times. In games I have: countered Abrupt Decay, "Stifled" Tectonic Edge and Ghost Quarter, won a game by bouncing my opponents active Celstial Collonade, etc. The Giant Growth mode is the one I've used the least. I've used that mode to win a game, but it's much rarer than the Hexproof ability.

[LP, of the Fires]

If I where playing a 4 in RUG, it'd be Huntmaster.