[Primer] Boros Burn

[zemanjaski]

Andy "James, there's some space in the queue this week, can you finally finish an article?"

Zem "I've got a modern PTQ coming up, how about I write on that?"

Fin.

[LP, of the Fires]

Starcity is the biggest most established website with a store and tourney circuit along with the best commentators in the business. They could write about noodles and people would still buy premium.

[Purp]

I got premium for life it seems.

[BlakLanner]

They also seem to insist on having 10+ articles a day. It probably thins out the content greatly.

[Elricity]

I paid for their premium for 3 months and then dropped it.

Thanks Z, answers my question.

[zenbitz]

has anyone tried Circle of Flames (I had to check, it is mono-directional so none of or stuff dies) ? As we are all aware, mono red has trouble with enchantments, MUD usually doesn't run enchantment removal

Circle of Flame doesn't work on fliers. Which makes it not really super good against MU.... I guess it prevents a frostburn 3x pump? or lets a token block a tidebinder.

[Elricity]

I'm aware this is coming from the guy playing Flamespeaker against creature decks but circle of flame only improves the matches you already have on a lock.

[BlakLanner]

I have got to be doing something wrong. I am getting slaughtered in DEs. Another 1-2 drop. Highlights are posted. Could someone please tell me where I am going wrong? I can't imagine this is solely a case of my opponents having a massive case of haveititis.

[Clackerr]

Hey everyone! Just got back yesterday from SCG Dallas and I'd like to share my results and match writeups with everyone. The list I was playing is shown in my very first post.

It was a nice, crisp 90 degrees in shitty Ft. Worth, TX and the smell of salty tears was in the air. As I walked half a mile just to get around to the back side of the convention center, I sipped on some nice water . Upon entering the center, I decided that Texas has some fine women, but quickly lost this thought as the nerd level rose to overpower all else. Pairings were posted and I was finally ready to establish burn's dominance over the metagame.

Round 1: I'm paired against a guy running a Red Deck Wins list with hammer, fanatics, and ash zealots over eidolons.
Game 1 I smash him with young pyromancer and all is right in the world.
Game 2, I mull to 6, get back-to-back peak erupted on turn 3 and turn 4, searing blooded on turn 5, then (luckily) I proceed to draw 3 lands in a row to replenish my mana base. It wasn't enough due to his hammer giving everything haste and him drawing nothing but gas.
Game 3, I mull to 6 again, get peak erupted again on turn 3, with him destroying my sacred foundry and only white source. I proceed to get stuck on 3 non-white lands for the whole game as I one-for-one his creatures. He steadily pecks away at my life total with not 1, not 2, but 3 fanatics of mogis in a row. I'm left with chandra's phoenix, and 1 young pyro token after he searing bloods my young pyro. He proceeds to overload mizzium mortars (which he left in... fuck me, right?) and swings for lethal with his last fanatic of mogis. Loss. (0-1).

Round 2: Shaking off the last disaster of a match, I am paired against a
competent Jund Monsters player.
Game 1 We both keep decent hands and going first, I am able to race him and win with 1 life remaining (Insert troll face here).
Game 2 He lands an early Courser of Kruphix and has the turn 2 abrupt decay for my young pyromancer (maybe I should have held him back til I could get value?). As I watch the cards my opponent is going to be drawing, he is able to see the dream of land into drawing Rakdos returns into land into rakdos returns. I know I have to start racing asap in order to not get blown out by rakdos returns. Doesn't matter as he proceeds to return me for 2 and again on the next turn for 3 . I am now on topdeck mode while he has courser. He plays xenagos planeswalker into stormbreath into stormbreath and easily wins.
Game 3 My opponent sees my young pyro turn 2 and is able to raise me an abrupt decay, yet again. Xenagos planeswalker comes down on turn 4 making little
shitters that can very effectively race me. I decide to use my resources to try to control the board as I have a phoenix online. I chain a courser of kruphix and a polukranos. He responds with a rakdos returns for 3 and shits on me with his little shitters. Loss. (0-2).

Round 3: Frustrated with starting 0-2 and refusing to be a little bitch and drop, I decide its time to win. After a huge error with SCG's points (everyone who won got 0 points and everyone who lost got 3..lol), we start round 3 and I'm paired against another Jund monster deck, this time with the new Garruk.
Game 1 I mull to 6 and proceed to race him and his 2 stormbreaths with some decent draws and warleader's helix.
Game 2 I sideboard into the control role. Turn 1 elvish mystic into polukranos into stormbreath into Garruk planeswalker. I draw 8 lands (5 in a row at the end), only able to chain the polukranos and play a boros reckoner with a couple burn spells. He kills my boros reckoner with the minus ability of Garruk and gains 3.
I look at the top card of my library and see another land and promptly scoop.
Game 3 I sideboard into all my skullcracks and boros charms with only a couple of removals and decide to race as I'm tired of getting out top-decked. My turn 2 blind obedience into turn 3 phoenix into boros charm/ young pyro into extorted warleader's helix proves too much and he isn't able to put any damage on me. He ends the game with 3 coursers on the field, 1 caratid, 1 stormbreath dragon on defense, xenagos planeswalker, and new garruk. His attempted minus garruk to gain 4 off of one of his courser's got skullcracked. He waited much too long to golgari charm my army of pyro tokens too...
Win. (1-2).

Round 4: Finally, a little justice in the world. My next matchup is against another burn player who gets soundly outplayed.
Game 1: We both start the game out with magma jet x 2, scrying into good cards. He isn't patient
enough to hold his warleader's helix and I skullcrack and play my own helix to pull far ahead for the eventual win.
Game 2: First hand: no lands. Mull. Second hand: 1 mutavault. Mull. 3rd hand: 2 lands, blind obedience, skull crack and magma jet. Yum. Turn 2 blind obedience into magma jet scrying for lands and threats. He kept 2 pain lands which ended up dealing him 6 damage over the course of the game. He would have won, but on the key turn he gets greedy and takes 2 trying to boros charm me, putting him to 7 as I boros charm with extort and magma jet for victory. Win. (2-2).

Round 5: Some young gentlemen shows up to tell me he's giving me the game and that he is dropping. I thank him for the free win and go buy some shitty, very expensive nachos. Win. (3-2).

Round 6: After scouring the scene to see that the field is littered with burn, g/w aggro, and monster decks, I am paired against a decent G/W
aggro player running Brimaz (bad).
Game 1 I mull to 6 and find a turn 2 young pyro left unchecked does dirty things to G/W. He had a great draw but I am able to 1-for-1 all of his threats with burn or chains. My late game blind obedience stops his late game brimaz from being able to block my lethal swing.
Game 2 I board in all my removal and take out all my skullcracks and boros charms. I am able to see that he has selesnya charm and wurm in his hand by the way he is playing and I play around them. He makes some questionable trades with young pyro tokens instead of charming to save his dudes. An early blind obedience here also helps put the game away. Win. (4-2).

Round 7: I am paired against a player who has been given an esper control deck to play by his friend, but literally doesn't know what half of them do because he had taken a long absence from the game before this.
Game 1 I see one syncopate
and 2 supreme verdicts and no black lands. He gets stuck on 4 lands, but it doesn't matter b/c I win on turn 5.
Game 2 I get out eidolon turn 2 into eidolon turn 3 (my 2-of from sideboard). He counters a 2 damage burn spell, takes 4 damage. I see black lands and sigh in relief. (esper is way easier to beat than U/W). He detention spheres, taking another 4 damage. My boros charm and skullcrack easily crush my helpless opponent. Win. (5-2).

Round 8: Feeling good after having started so shitty and clawing my way (lol) back up, I can taste top 8. Tastes like Mono Black. I spit that shit right back out. This guy was dating one of the magic card artists and was extremely good.
Game 1 We both keep our 7 and he plays turn 1 thoughtsieze taking skullcrack. I assume he has grey merchant in hand. He proceeds to play underworld connections into demon into grey merchant. None of which I have answers for. I had started racing him and had him to 8 by turn 5, but grey merchant draining 6 and another demon after that
proved too much for me to handle.
Game 2 Again keeping our 7, he turn 1 duresses me taking boros charm. I had boarded in 2 hushwing gryffs and I drew one after the duress. He turn 3 lifebane zombies it blindly out of my hand FML. He plays another lifebane zombie after this and seeing a skullcrack in my hand does literally nothing except play kill spells for the next 3 turns and swing with his zombies. I chain one to the rocks and have him at 9 life with one skullcrack in my hand. I skullcrack to get my phoenix back, going for the tempo play. I don't see a 4 dmg burn spell to play with my phoenix for lethal and he punishes me with a grey merchant for 6, putting him out of my range and me helpless to his zombie. Loss. (5-3).

Round 9: Being 5-3 puts me out of the running for top 8 and probably top 16, so I set my sights on a hopeful top 32 finish. I am placed against a B/g Devotion deck.
Game 1 I rofl stomp the poor guy with him getting his pack rat and 2 demons answered on the spot.
Game 2 I board
into the removal suite for mono B. We both mull to 6 and have a hard fought game but pharika's cure and grey merchant into a late game pack rat put him ahead of my 1-for-1 answers.
Game 3 I board back into a racing strategy since I'm on the play. I mull to 6. Duress into downfall on young pyro, into demon with me being stuck on 2 lands for 5 turns makes this game more one sided than it should have been and I lose. Loss. (5-4).

Round 10: Feeling shitty since I'm no longer in the running for even top 64, I decide to win out for those planeswalker points. Gotta stroke that ego. I am placed against a Naya Monsters deck with a good-natured dude.
Game 1 I am able to play an early Young pyromancer and have hard hitting burn spells. He doesn't touch me.
Game 2 I get out ahead of him with Young pyromancer and answer his xenagos planeswalker, ajani planeswalker plussing into elspeth, courser of kruphix, and the revealed elspeth. He proceeds to draw lands and a mizzium mortars that he doesn't have the
patience to wait to overload, deciding to one-for-one my YP. 2 Warleader's helix off the top seal the deal. Win. (6-4).

Round 11: Gotta get that last win for those points! Turns out that it was late and people were hungry so I ended up with a No-Show easy win. Win. (7-4).

Place: 97th out of 730ish players. I didn't place, but felt like I didn't misplay very much at all so was happy I got top 100.

Lessons Learned: I need to playtest a lot against Mono B, Jund monsters, and RDW. I know the All-In-Red matchup and it is much easier than the RDW was. Mono B has been crushing me lately and I'm not sure if I should be boarding into the control role or just trying to race them. Searing bloods will be coming back in instead of Hushwing Gryff. Also, Stoke the flames didn't do much. Blind obedience main as a 1-of is amazing. Never take it out.

[LP, of the Fires]

watching currnetly, game 1 round 1, when you draw your second YP against his mull to 4 you slam that bitch on turn 2. Pressure that hoe. Searing bloods in your deck ffs, your plan is to kill them dead.

Why are you saccing tokens when you're at 20? Was it a modo glitch, or did you just not remember to searing blood before blocks?

Sideboarding was fine, I'd board out more helix's before stoke probably just because stoke is "cheaper".

[BrainsickHater]

I was trying to play control and found it extremely fragile and was wildly unsuccessful with it. I went back to playing aggressively and now my winrate is ~80% against MB decks.

[Kyronte]

Guys,

I am looking for the last Boros Burn list from zemanjaski and I cannot seem to find it.
Can anyone please paste it for me so I can take a look?

Thanks!

[magicdownunder]

Guys,

I am looking for the last Boros Burn list from zemanjaski and I cannot seem to find it.
Can anyone please paste it for me so I can take a look?

Thanks!

Here is his last list (its dated) I believe Yaaookas updated list sparked Zem interested so I suggest looking at that.

[deck]Z Rw Burn[/deck]

Also here is a link for Zem articles on CFB.

[magicdownunder]

Last Time

---

Quick update about my videos:

As some may know I recently lost all my data (including 1.5 weeks worth of footage) so all those DEs I ran with HK (4 of them 3-1, 4-0x3 are gone) and my Modern games (it maybe a hidden blessing since I just ran the same list in every MU).

Anyhow since these next three weeks are rather busy I won't be able too play too much magic (though I'll still be online trying too sell slightly overpriced but convenient boosters) I'll be only running 8-Mans with standard whenever I have time.

Here is the first set running a slightly edited version of William Yowell list

[u:
43s2xk4e]SE Report 7343716[/u]
G1 Mirror SE 7343716
G2 Bg Devo vs YOLO SE 7343716
G3 Mirror SE 7343716 <-- DtR Lurker

I didn't run the list for long since I really dislike Eidolon of the Great Revel in this metagame and not running Shock just feels so very wrong.

Rw Burn SE Report 7347431
G1 Jund Walkers vs Rw Burn SE 7347431
G2 Ensoul Blue vs Rw Burn SE 7347431
G3 BW Midrange vs Rw Burn SE 7347431

Playing:

[deck=MDU's Greedy Rw Burn]Lands 22
2 Battlefield Forge
8 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Temple of Silence

Creatures 08
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Enchantments 04
4 Chained to the Rocks

Burns 26
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Stoke the Flames

Sideboard 15
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Searing Blood
2 Wear // Tear
1 Banishing Light
1 Pillar of Light [/deck]

The cards which I count as flex are:
4 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Wear // Tear

The deck itself is just being greedy via Scry, with the Dancer + Blood plan in the SB for the annoying G and U heavy online metagame.

(EDITED THE LIST - Cheers Blak)

[NotARobot]

I like the firedrinkers vs control, also could see going back to eidolons of the revel in the sideboard, since those are nice and punishing vs certain decks as well.

[BlakLanner]

MDU, your deck is 61 cards. You have 23 lands listed.

[Whole]

So how has everyone (if at all) changed their deck since the pro tour. Here is what I threw together:

[deck]
Spells
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
4 Lightning Strike
3 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Stoke the Flames
1 Warleader's Helix

Creatures
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Lands
8 Mountains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triump
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
3 Mutavault
2 Battlefield Forge

Sideboard
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Hushwing Gryff
1 Skullcrack
1 Wear//Tear
2 Banishing Light
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Prophetic Flamespeaker
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Reprisal
1 Pillar of Light
[/deck]

I based it off Sperling's list, but I'm too much of a puss to cut Chained to the Rocks maindeck and cut Magma Jet, so this is what I came up with. I do like the idea of Searing Blood right now with B/W on the rise. What do y'all think? Is this a good balance
between the PT list and what we've been doing, or should I firmly commit to one or the other? I haven't played MTGO since the PT (which is what this deck is for) so if anyone has any tweaks or suggestions they could make based off of that metagame, I'd be happy to hear it.

[Rhyno]

MDU, I distinctly remembering you advising me against playing FDS. You aren't allowed to try stuff or change your mind.

[BlakLanner]

This is where I currently am. I am not sure if I miss the Magma Jets or not.

[deck]Burn[/deck]

[Rhyno]

Are the 4 Stokes really working for you guys? I've been running between 1 and 2 and found it to be extremely mediocre when I don't have a Pyromancer going. I haven't had the chance to test 4 yet.

[BlakLanner]

I am loving Stoke. Yeah, it isn't as good without YP but it hits BBoV and Stormbreath and when you DO have YP, it is insane.

[magicdownunder]

MDU, I distinctly remembering you advising me against playing FDS. You aren't allowed to try stuff or change your mind.

I still think its horrible (compared with T//T) its just that I lower the the land count in that list so I can't use so many spells at once.

@BlakLanner: Cheers, I can't recall which land I cut so I'll edit the list once I get a chance too log-on and find out.

[jsilv]

That much is obvious, I'm just curious if they're forced to or they drunkly fire off a post just because.

For example, and I respect if you don't want to answer this, it appears CFB's writers write more about what they're comfortable about or they're straight up that they're doing stream of conciousness. I don't know if that's CFB editors not forcing them to write what they don't know or forcing them to know about what they write, both, or neither.

If that makes sense.

It seems so systemic that I feel it has to be a management issue with some of these sites. Thinking about these things is kind of a hobby of mine.

And clearly I'm making assumptions about a process I know nothing about.

For the most part we (CFB) aren't bound
by any particular guidelines. Obviously if you write about something totally out of left-field, Andy may go, "Hey, while I don't mind publishing this, we need you on something (you know / people care about) next time." CFB will also have a preference during a particular PTQ season, but otherwise it's open-ended. I've written about Standard, Modern, Extended, Vintage, Legacy, Cube, Pauper, Standard Pauper, OP issues, Slow play, Cheating, Humor and other stuff and never been told, "Jesus, what's wrong with you? Get back to Standard or you're fired."

SCG has a bit more structure in place, though it's been years since I've wrote for them. The only mildly sellout thing they do is I know they can't slag off cards and have to try and not piss all over prerelease cards they know are bad. They don't specifically sell cards like people always accuse them of doing, but they do have to keep their cynicism in check. Every once in a while you'll see someone important break away and say
what people are actually thinking (Patrick Chapin of all people saying a Jace is bad) while other people gush all over it. Or write stupid shit like Ashiok is the sleeper breakout card for the Standard Pro Tour.

A lot of times writers will just write about things they have limited experience with because deadlines. Especially if you have to write a daily column about 'wacky' decks.

[magicdownunder]

Two points of discussion:

1) Dauntless268 brought this up before, but after some discussion and thought I have to agree (at least online) we WILL ALWAYS see a creature G2+G3 if not we'll pretty much win anyways

So how many chains do we keep vs them? keeping in mind 2 chain in play vs Dsphere = super fun times, I'm thinking the number should be "3" we want to see at least one early but we don't want to see 2 thus "3" in theory is the magic number (just watch me draw all 3 next event and end up tilting ) 2 is the safer number but not answering FSP on t3 is nasty.

EDIT: Lazerburn mention that the number should be 2 - this should be the safest number too avoid Dshpere blowout, it also just seem better if you factor in BL, Glares, W//
T or whatever other goodies you have.

2) Rakdos Cackler vs Firedrinker Satyr in a greedy deck (21-22 lands).

Firedrinker Satyr Pump-able which is a great asset vs */3 creatures like NVS and can sometimes help you dodge last breath, slightly better T3-T5 draw vs control due to pumps, its cooler then cackler because you can use the line "Sometimes dancing, sometimes drinking as a deck title" BUT it dies too G-Charm and it redirects damage.

Rakdos Cackler harder to kill vs UP and DB which are being used in Devo and BW control builds, is good in the mirror, can't be G.Charmed, can be casted via temple of silence - weaker topdeck T4+, can't help you vs */3.

(this is what happens when I don't play magic, I just theory-craft )

[HK1997]

Here is what happens when I have no time to play... I play anyways and drop due to timeout...

To your first question: 2 chains is my standard in any version vs any control deck post board. Faced UW and esper, with Dspheres and without on the cleansing path the past week and won them all, drawing my chains when I needed it. Tho it feels safer when you are siding in 2 BLs as well.
From now on I will be running 3-4 chains vs the cleansing version because of 4x rams and god kNows how many AAs.

Secondly.... I hate both. Ran FDS last two dailies and it did win some control games, doing 2-5 dmg on average. So I put back TT. That bitch does 5 dmg average for me

And an update for those interested in my rabblemaster test: he plays like YP in most matchups if you MD'ed him, out of the sideboard he is exactly like YP in the control mu. Vs
mono G he is ok and better than YP.
Most of all, he is another body to up my creature count, when I want it and his power level is comparable to YP in my opinion (slightly lower). As long as you handle him carefully he will always net a token. And when he dies the tokens don't attack anymore

[Elricity]

My answer to fiendslayer vs control is still flamespeaker. The downside is it's also answered by last breath or celestial flare but it's also not potentially a dead card that also doesn't turn planar cleansing into a blowout. Although I can see doing both if they are on paladins and you're trying to out control the control matchup. Worth looking at but I think I would have to know for certain they are on Paladin before I did it.

Rabblemaster is interesting. You can't guarantee a token like you can with YP unless your opponent is tapped out (which matters a lot vs MBC) but he's a superior topdeck. It also interacts a lot better against Jace.

[Purp]

Flamespeaker is no where near being the answer to Flochs UW list.

[HK1997]

My answer to fiendslayer vs control is still flamespeaker. The downside is it's also answered by last breath or celestial flare but it's also not potentially a dead card that also doesn't turn planar cleansing into a blowout. Although I can see doing both if they are on paladins and you're trying to out control the control matchup. Worth looking at but I think I would have to know for certain they are on Paladin before I did it.

Rabblemaster is interesting. You can't guarantee a token like you can with YP unless your opponent is tapped out (which matters a lot vs MBC) but he's a superior topdeck. It also interacts a lot better against Jace.

When I was running him MD, he was ok and not great vs MBC. That's why I didn't side him into that
matchup when he hit the SB. I have read somewhere of people calling him a win-more card. I disagree. He fits nicely into a spell sequence of beating down the opponent when we aren't the control deck in a matchup. And yes. He top decks very well. Thank for pointing out the Jace interaction! It didn't come up weirdly.

[Elricity]

Flamespeaker is no where near being the answer to Flochs UW list.

What exactly is the cause of your obsession with giving non sequiturs? You're arguing with me on a point I didn't make.

Although I believe I disagree with you anyway since his deck is so low on win conditions.

[Purp]

4 jace, 4 ram, 4 charms, 4 last breath. OMG FLAMESPEAKER SO GOOD.

[LP, of the Fires]

Would not flamespeak vs any uw control deck. Seems real bad.

[Elricity]

Purp, I'm honestly confused why you're trying to pick a fight with me.

Anyway, about rabblemaster, how is that win more? On an empty board, it's got a better clock than Xenagos.

LP, I've had some test games where Flamespeaker has been decent but the card is terribly swingy. It does require a playstyle which I've noticed doesn't generally synch with a lot of the DTR posters.

[Purp]

I am not trying to pick a fight. Flamespeaker is not a better answer to Paladin than chains.

[Khaospawn]

Would not flamespeak vs any uw control deck. Seems real bad.

No, Gimli, I would not take the road through Moria unless I had no other choice.

[Valdarith]

Chains isn't even a good answer.

Really if someone is running Fiendslayer in their UW list, then oh well. Stop trying to plan to beat a narrow card in a matchup that is already highly unfavorable for you.

[NotARobot]

Man rabble red can be pretty tough to beat. Its rough getting turn 5 killed consistently x_x

[LP, of the Fires]

If both players draws are equal, the burn player should have a firm advantage. Kill creatures before attacks declared so you don't get makka'd, if you only have 2 removal spells in hand, try to save one for rabblemaster, but use the first on whatever 2 power guy they have prioritizing 2 toughness creatures and firefist striker, know that they play 7/8 burn spells and you should be fine.

Postboard, savvy red mages are bringing in skullcracks against you. It's not good, but war leaders helix is too big of a blowout so that's another thing you should be aware of.

[NotARobot]

Ah post board I embarassed the guy and he disconnected

I'm liking having firedancers in the board, the online meta seems really nice against them

[Valdarith]

I don't know if Firedancer is overkill or not but it sounds nice to have something else that's a direct swap for Boros Charm / Skullcrack if your sideboard has the room.

[NotARobot]

Dang he got me game 3. That deck is stupidly fast.