[Primer] Boros Burn

[cloudscraper]

I know MJ is I just found it funny.

And waiting for the collective "Oh yeah, BE is terribad"

Sigh. Should've been here an hour ago Zem. Would've saved me the time

I still think you should cut Chandra/the 4 drop for the 2nd Blind Obedience, as the mirror is increasing and it is still a good card in the mirror, and its also good vs. monsters still. I dunno, I still like it.

and I also think that Cackler should be Firedrinker Satyr, and here's why I believe the 2nd one.

Esper is going to start playing Nightveil Specter. We already proved that the hivemind is a beautiful thing and the esper winner, Kyle, said he loved Nightveil Specter vs. Burn.

on top of
that, sometimes you can bring in Satyr vs. Mono-Black (i dont like it vs. BW) and a lot of lists are still running Nightveil Specter.

I also dont like Glare, because the problem cards that are white for us are enchantments anyway. Elspeth we fly over, and once she gets to a high enough Loyalty your probably losing that game anyway, right? So might as well run Wear // Tear

rest of the sideboard is fine, not so much 1 ofs as much as "finishing my 4 ofs"

What do you think about having more than 4 total 1-drops in the board? Like 1 cackler instead of the glare?

[zemanjaski]

Shambles

[LP, of the Fires]

If control weren't running Blob, I'd still be championing that 1-of Stormbreath dragon.

[zemanjaski]

I think the spirit of legato has descended on this thread. Or madding. <3 them both.

[LP, of the Fires]

As much as I like Akainu, I'm more of an Aokiji. That real frosty demeanor though.

[zemanjaski]

I didn't like it before (but understood it), but yeah, now it's actively sucky.

[zemanjaski]

Aokiji is a good fit for you yeah.

[LP, of the Fires]

Lazy Justice and all of that as well.

[DXI-Edge]

See, it's "the people like you" comment that I can't step away from. Nigga, you do not know me.

FUCK. OFF.

I'd appreciate if you didnt use that language, thank you

You can't shit talk me then expect me to give a fuck about your feelings.

Nigga.

You dont have to care about my feelings, have some goddamn respect and dont use that
word please

[zemanjaski]

This brings up something I was thinking about. In Ari Lax's article about the dredge deck he played, he called burn basically unplayable, which while an exaggeration, helped me figure out my hang up with the deck. While playing underpowered red cards isn't something new to me, unless your draws lined up right, you generally had to work much harder then your opponents to win which while not bad, isn't something I'm looking for in my tier 1 deck.

With YP in the mix, you're still playing mental gymnastics(more in fact) but your cards start functioning by themselves as opposed to waiting for your searing blood to come online, or staring at your opponents caryatid with your ash zealot in play along with a shock and a skullcrack against the guy sitting on
16 life or whatever. We've moved more into the realm of "cohesive strategy" because with YP in play our cards work together a lot better making our "combo" plan stronger.

Yeah, YP gives the deck a solid "Plan B" while removing a conditional card for a consistent one.

If people don't want to take the deck seriously that's fine, guess I need to get another 80QPs for the month.

[Elricity]

Chandra is fine vs. Control but actively good vs. Little aggro, bw midrange and the mirror. Just getting more out of that last slot basically.

Going to be honest. Faltering [insert 5 drop control creature] is about the only reason I want to play the card which is a shame because I love her in theory.

How is it good in the mirror? I don't think I've ever seen a mirror game where both players are on topdeck mode and it only hits YP which they may not play. Otherwise, the card is:

[mana]RR2[/mana]

Sorcery
Opponent takes 1 damage.
Your opponent chooses: You gain 5 life or draw a card at the beginning of your next turn. If there is a next turn.

[LP, of the Fires]

Did you read Jsilv's recent article about burn, esper, and everything in between?

Big takeaways where control lists running dispel, negate, and nightveil spectors to compliment thoughtseize, fiendslayer and blob which I could see closing the gaps in the matchup.

[zemanjaski]

FYI Josh and I run our articles past each other.

[LP, of the Fires]

Chandra is fine vs. Control but actively good vs. Little aggro, bw midrange and the mirror. Just getting more out of that last slot basically.

Going to be honest. Faltering [insert 5 drop control creature] is about the only reason I want to play the card which is a shame because I love her in theory.

How is it good in the mirror? I don't think I've ever seen a mirror game where both players are on topdeck mode and it only hits YP which they may not play. Otherwise, the card is:

[mana]RR2[/mana]

Sorcery
Opponent takes 1 damage.
Your opponent chooses: You gain
5 life or draw a card at the beginning of your next turn. If there is a next turn.

Mirror match is going to be about warleaders helix, or CA. Going creature heavy, lets us dictate the pace of play and emphasis CA, virtual or otherwise. Playing chandra lets you gain cards in 1 of several ways. +1 till ultimate(every 3 damage is worth~card), 0-ing to "draw" cards or your opponent throws burn spells at her which will usually net you 2-3 cards worth of value.

[LP, of the Fires]

See, it's "the people like you" comment that I can't step away from. Nigga, you do not know me.

FUCK. OFF.

I'd appreciate if you didnt use that language, thank you

You can't shit talk me then expect
me to give a fuck about your feelings.

Nigga.

You dont have to care about my feelings, have some goddamn respect and dont use that word please

Nigga please.

Respect is earned. Wether or not you had it before is irrelevant because you lost it. So again, kindly fuck off sir

[Elricity]

Just watched through MDU's videos where the guy resolved two fiendslayers. He couldn't really attack into because of Ash Zealot and MDU was content to let it sit back and bash him to death with a phoenix. Fiendslayer is bad for us only if we have no zealots, boros charms, or 4 toughness of blockers.

Dispel, duress, thoughtsieze, and sin collector though? That's no bueno.

[LP, of the Fires]

FYI Josh and I run our articles past each other.

This while relevant info does not answer my question sir.

[Elricity]

Chandra is fine vs. Control but actively good vs. Little aggro, bw midrange and the mirror. Just getting more out of that last slot basically.

Mirror match is going to be about warleaders helix, or CA. Going creature heavy, lets us dictate the pace of play and emphasis CA, virtual or otherwise. Playing chandra lets you gain cards in 1 of several ways. +1 till ultimate(every 3 damage is worth~card), 0-ing
to "draw" cards or your opponent throws burn spells at her which will usually net you 2-3 cards worth of value.

Or...he kills you because you tapped out, ala blood baron, Thune, etc. Virtual card advantage is still a thing.

Edit: Also, what else do you board out or not board in? It was already 1 YP or helix, 4 cackler, 1 BO, 1 chain, 1 vault.

[LP, of the Fires]

Just watched through MDU's videos where the guy resolved two fiendslayers. He couldn't really attack into because of Ash Zealot and MDU was content to let it sit back and bash him to death with a phoenix. Fiendslayer is bad for us only if we have no zealots, boros charms, or 4 toughness of blockers.

Dispel, duress, thoughtsieze, and sin collector though? That's no bueno.

Regardless of how good or bad fiendslayer is, it does force us to have something which is why it was mentioned. It gaining 4 life negates a boros charm after all. It's simply a piece of the puzzle and makes the aformentioned cards that much more devastating.

[Elricity]

True, it's a lot to slot in for just burn but eventually, we are going to piss everyone off. More so than now that is.

[Valdarith]

If he kills you when you tap out for Chandra you were losing anyway.

[Elricity]

If he kills you when you tap out for Chandra you were losing anyway.

Disagree. Your own helix or removal for attackers changes it from "I just won!" to "Oh shit, my stuff is gone and/or life totals just swung so that now he's killing me!"

Obviously if your hand is just face burn, then yeah, sure but then you're also not telegraphing that to him by tapping out.

[LP, of the Fires]

Chandra is fine vs. Control but actively good vs. Little aggro, bw midrange and the mirror. Just getting more out of that last slot basically.

Mirror match is going to be about warleaders helix, or CA. Going creature heavy, lets us dictate the
pace of play and emphasis CA, virtual or otherwise. Playing chandra lets you gain cards in 1 of several ways. +1 till ultimate(every 3 damage is worth~card), 0-ing to "draw" cards or your opponent throws burn spells at her which will usually net you 2-3 cards worth of value.

Or...he kills you because you tapped out, ala blood baron, Thune, etc. Virtual card advantage is still a thing.

Edit: Also, what else do you board out or not board in? It was already 1 YP, 4 cackler, 1 BO, 1 chain, 1 vault.

If you're on the creature plan, you generally force them to use burn spells on your guys because rakdos cackler+friends race burn spells in hand. Repeatable sources of damage vs. finite and all that. This is where you get your window to resolve your walker. If they aren't killing your guys and are sending everything at the face, either they're hand is insane, or you should win easily becuase there burn plan requires about 7/8 cards(depending on if they drew
phoenix's) while your plan only requires that you get in 2/3 times with a cackler an ash zealot swing in, and a token from YP while doing it faster then the opponent.

[DXI-Edge]

See, it's "the people like you" comment that I can't step away from. Nigga,
you do not know me.

FUCK. OFF.

I'd appreciate if you didnt use that language, thank you

You can't shit talk me then expect me to give a fuck about your feelings.

Nigga.

You dont have to care about my feelings, have some goddamn respect and dont use that word please

Nigga please.

Respect is earned. Wether or not you had it before is irrelevant because you lost it. So again, kindly fuck off sir

Calling me a "nigga" and me asking for respect is asking to respect me, its respecting the fact that that word is offensive.

Now, kindly, fuck off, and stop using that FUCKING WORD YOU CUNT

[LP, of the Fires]

Pretty sure I've posted more in this thread today then I've posted about any deck since Devotion red in January. Are we looking at another month of magic riches?

I have a 1k that I'm ACTUALLY gonna play in this saturday and it's at the same location/event type that I won the last won. I'm assuming my renewed posting habits means my fires been rekindled(pretty big deal with GP phoenix around the corner) so I'm likely to take some iteration of this deck.

[LP, of the Fires]

Nigga please.

Respect is earned. Wether or not you had it before is irrelevant because you lost it. So again, kindly fuck off sir

Finding out you're just another Zemmite made me lose respect for you.

I've personally operated on the assumption that your a Kait gimmick.

[Elricity]

Chandra is fine vs. Control but actively good vs. Little aggro, bw midrange and the mirror. Just getting more out
of that last slot basically.

Mirror match is going to be about warleaders helix, or CA. Going creature heavy, lets us dictate the pace of play and emphasis CA, virtual or otherwise. Playing chandra lets you gain cards in 1 of several ways. +1 till ultimate(every 3 damage is worth~card), 0-ing to "draw" cards or your opponent throws burn spells at her which will usually net you 2-3 cards worth of value.

Or...he kills you because you tapped out, ala blood baron, Thune, etc. Virtual card advantage is still a thing.

Edit: Also, what else do you board out or not board in? It was already 1 YP, 4 cackler, 1 BO, 1 chain, 1 vault.

If you're on the creature plan, you generally force them to use burn spells on your guys because rakdos cackler+friends race burn spells in hand. Repeatable sources of damage vs. finite and all that. This is where you get your window to resolve your walker. If they aren't killing your guys and are
sending everything at the face, either they're hand is insane, or you should win easily becuase there burn plan requires about 7/8 cards(depending on if they drew phoenix's) while your plan only requires that you get in 2/3 times with a cackler an ash zealot swing in, and a token from YP while doing it faster then the opponent.

Ok, so the argument is that you're actively trying to gas both players out. I can see that. Still, what comes in? 8 cards to cut are easy but now we want to bring in 10. I'm assuming the only logical choice is either going down to 2 helix, jet, or zealots. My money on jets.

Edit: Or shocks? No clue at this point. You're 18-20 creatures (counting vault) and 14-16 burn either way. Shrug.

Edit 2: Also, if you cut any more helix, Chandra's ultimate is terrible. You want your shocks for aggression. You want your jets for digging up your 1 of's. You want zealots for the before mentioned gas strategy. Blargh. That said, you're probably not realistically
planning for Chandra's ultimate.

[MisterMet]

If the plan against control and black devotion is to up your creature count to fifteen (along with Assemble the Legion against black devotion) then what about Legion's Initiative as a one-of in the sideboard? It helped a lot against those decks when I was playing Boros aggro pre-BNG since it would speed things up and nullify Jace's +1.

[Elricity]

Legion's initiative wipes your own tokens.

[LP, of the Fires]

Not really high impact enough for me to want to board

The package is certainly appealing though(I played it at an SCG).

[LP, of the Fires]

Legion's initiative wipes your own tokens.

You'd play it for the +1 attack power.

@MisterMet: I'm probably actually not bringing in assemble versus control. We have a decent mid/late game vs. them but I'm not trying to take it THAT late.

[Elricity]

Legion's initiative wipes your own tokens.

You'd play it for the +1 attack power.

Not enough creatures, YP or no for that to be worth it.

[Valdarith]

If he kills you when you tap out for Chandra you were losing anyway.

Disagree. Your own helix or removal for attackers changes it from "I just won!" to "Oh shit, my stuff is gone and/or life totals just swung so that now he's killing me!"

Obviously if your hand is just face burn, then yeah, sure but then you're also not telegraphing that to him by tapping out.

What I mean is that if you're at that point in the game where you're baiting out each other's burn spells, you obviously don't play her. But at the mid stages of the game jamming a
Chandra is a very good thing to be doing. A one-of makes this most effective since you don't dilute your main strategy.

[MisterMet]

Legion's initiative wipes your own tokens.

You'd play it for the +1 attack power.

Not enough creatures, YP or no for that to be worth it.

The deck I was running it in had sixteen creatures (four of cackler, zealot, phoenix and dragon) and there wasn't an issue, though I might have been very lucky then.

LP: Agreed about not bringing Assemble against control. I meant that it
and LI were useful together against black devotion.

[zemanjaski]

Picture this:
- you have helix in hand
- I have chandra

Board is empty, we each have 4 mana

Who's favoured?

[Kaitscralt]

Nigga please.

Respect is earned. Wether or not you had it before is irrelevant because you lost it. So again, kindly fuck off sir

Finding out you're just another Zemmite made me lose respect for you.

I've personally operated on the assumption that your a Kait gimmick.

my gimmicks are female

[LP, of the Fires]

Picture this:
- you have helix in hand
- I have chandra

Board is empty, we each have 4 mana

Who's favoured?

The helix player.

How?

CAUSE HE HAS A MUTAVAULT!

Ah, trick question!!!

[zemanjaski]

No more confrontational BS, only I get to do that.

<<<mod

[LP, of the Fires]

I'm a mod too...of the modern forums >_>

[zemanjaski]

This is my domain.