Primer: R/w/x Aggro

[Valdarith]

Sin Collector doesn't help either.

[poppa_f]

...or dare I say fated conflagration out of the board

(I know you guys aren't massively keen, but B/W is the one match up where you'd be pretty happy to topdeck it if they have Ghost Dad in play)

[magicdownunder]

I believe I vouched for fated conflagration on Day one over Mortar or two.

[Crims0n]

I see you on stream MDU playing against boros burn with ur rakdos burn!

[DerWille]

I saw this R/w list that took the Salt Lake City PTQ.

[deck=Ben Lundgren's Rw Aggro, PTQ Salt Lake 1st Place]
Creatures (20)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Rakdos Cackler
2 Gore-House Chainwalker
4 Viashino Firstblade
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Spark Trooper

Spells (18)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Skullcrack

Land (22)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
9 Mountain
2 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Electrickery
2 Satyr Firedancer
4 Searing Blood
2 Skullcrack
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Toil // Trouble
[/deck]

Link to the top 8 - http://epicpug.com/site/?p=1118

What's everyone think about this list? I'm sort of on the fence about it. I don't understand why it's running many of the cards it's running. Was it just running hot that day or is it onto something?

[poppa_f]

game two against Mono-black is going to be tricky when they side in their LBZ's and drown in sorrows

[LaZerBurn]

It's an interesting list, I quite like it His choices make sense to me, which ones didn't you get?

[magicdownunder]

I really like Ben Lundgren list, it looks like a blast too play.

@Crims0n: which boros burn build? The one with YP + Dancer or Dancer + Dragon? I think it must of been the YP + Dancer guy since he took forever making plays.

[DerWille]

It's an interesting list, I quite like it His choices make sense to me, which ones didn't you get?

Spark Trooper and Vishino Firstblade in particular. Both seem to be subpar 3 and 4 drops.

[LaZerBurn]

His list is a burn/aggro build so he's using them as creature burn, like Ball Lightning, which they are perfect for. They compliment his game plan really well, Trooper is a one shot anyway and Firstblade is used for it's 4 damage CIP turn, if it sticks around it's a bonus.

Both have been used for this effect before - Trooper saw play in the Burn lists; I love it and dauntless268 ran Firstblade in his SB for the MOCS.

Hope that makes sense

[DerWille]

It does. I wasn't thinking of it as a burn list but as a R/w aggro list. Thanks for the explanation.

[Crims0n]

@MDU it was the guy with young pyro + dancer. he was randomly streaming on twitch. What does your most recent r/w burn list look like?

[magicdownunder]

@MDU it was the guy with young pyro + dancer. he was randomly streaming on twitch. What does your most recent r/w burn list look like?

I haven't changed it much, though I do like the direction Ben Lundgren took with the list (reminds me of Valdarith list, except it more focused on burn).

Would you happen to have the link for the Rw guy? I would love see my list from another perspective.

[montu]

SSG posted a Brad Nelson vs Tod Anderson video matchup today (premium content) where Brad plays the following deck. There's so many fun variants R/W!

[deck=R/W Burn - Brad Nelson]
Creatures (8)

4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (29)

2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Shock
3 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Lands (23)

10 Mountain
1 Boros Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
Sideboard (15)

4 Boros Reckoner
2 Oracle of Bones
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Satyr Firedancer
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
[/deck]

[Purp]

I don't think that list is much better if better at all than his original burn list. He swapped Firedancer with zealots, and cut YP$ for 2 chains. I would contest his GR monsters matchup is now worse. Sure his UW G1 might be a little better, but his SB is terrible.

[LaZerBurn]

This is an older list apparently. Pedros pointed out that the vids are shot waaay in advance. If this is true then the awesomeness of the Satyr here is probably why he swapped it for the Zealot in his later (but to us earlier) list

[Purp]

Good point.

[Pedros]

Interesting deck made 4-0 in daily. Post BtG reincarnation of Boros Tokens:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/221643

Do you think it can compete in mono black / Bw metagame? (35% of meta is black based control)

[Guttler]

Interesting deck made 4-0 in daily. Post BtG reincarnation of Boros Tokens:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/221643

Do you think it can compete in mono black / Bw metagame? (35% of meta is black based control)

The deck plays all x/3's and higher to dodge Drown in Sorrow, but with only a handful of creatures blacks powerful single target removal is all live. The mana costs of the cards in that deck put a huge strain on the manabase. You're running Brimaz next to cards like Chandra, Pyromaster and Fated Conflagration. Not to mention the deck jams 3 Mutavaults.

[zeromuzuki]

[deck=R/W Burn - MDU's Ver. My Own Tweaks]
Lands 24
8 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 11
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Rakdos Cackler
2 Firedrink Satyr
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Other Spells 09
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Assemble the Legion

Burns 16
4 Lightning Strike
4 Warleader's Helix
3 Magma Jet
3 Shock
2 Boros Charm

Sideboard 15
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Last Breath
1 Boros Charm
3 Revoke Existence
3 Skullcrack
3 Fated Conflagration
2 Toil // Trouble
[/deck]

What do you guys think of my tweak? Been play testing it out and been running pretty decently. Taking it to local FNM tomorrow before I hit up a London PTQ.

[Purp]

I'd cut a helix for a MJ. I don't really like 3 Fated Conflags, could you explain them?

[zeromuzuki]

I figure Fated Conflags can hit every single planeswalker , it can deal with polukranos, reaper, and any creature x/5 that I don't want to waste a CtoR on. Another magma jet huh... I can cut 1 Fated for sure though. I think 3 is a little too much.

[Crims0n]

anybody still having success with the sullivan version? I really have been liking it a lot.

[poppa_f]

Interesting deck made 4-0 in daily. Post BtG reincarnation of Boros Tokens:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/221643

Do you think it can compete in mono black / Bw metagame? (35% of meta is black based control)

I've been mulling over playing this sort of deck for a while now. I think it would be competitive, however it would be quite slow to get going, so hard to beat U/w in game 1. Also the mana fixing is a bit iffy, with brimaz, fated conflagration, reckoner and 3 mutavaults.

My current thinking with Boros is to go back to basics, play blitz strategy game 1, but then switch to burn heavy control for game 2, when MBU have sided in their sweepers. I
think wrong-footing MBD is the key to beating them.

Will post up a list and rough SB plan later on today

[poppa_f]

That said, last night I played the ephara list josh silvestri put up on channel fireball a few days back and Brimaz is a house, so it is tempting to run more white sources to try and jam him and the Elspeth in

[poppa_f]

So this is what I'm thinking for post-BotG meta (weighted a bit towards my local meta, which is heavier on G/x for some reason):

deck

---

[deck]Creatures:18
2 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells:17
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Warleader's Helix

Lands:25
2 Boros Guildgate
11 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard:15
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Boros Charm
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Warleader's Helix
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Fated Conflagration[/deck]

Sideboard-plan

Sideboard-plan

---

Mono-Black devotion
OUT: 2 Firedrinker Satyr, 4 Rakdos Cackler, 4 Ash Zealot
IN: 1 Chained to the Rocks, 2 Assemble, 1 Helix, 2 Mortars, 3 Fated
Conflagration, 1 Boros Charm
(our plan is to survive long enough to resolve an assemble and win with that. Hopefully bait-and-switch on the creatues means they have a hand full of drown in sorrow and bile blight for game 2, which are now pretty useless for them)

G/R
OUT: 2 Firedrinker Satyr, 4 Rakdos Cackler, 2 Magma Jet
IN: 1 Chained to the Rocks, 1 Helix, 2 Mortars, 3 Fated Conflagration, 1 Boros Charm
(burn their creatures out and use flyers to kill them, Boros charm is relevant for protecting chained and killing domri/xenagos)

U/w
OUT: 3 Chained, 2 Mortars, 1 Magma Jet
IN: 1 Boros Charm, 3 Spirit of the Labyrinth, 2 Glare of Heresy
(Spirit stops Sphinx. Use boros charm to dodge sweepers)

B/W
OUT: 2 Firedrinker Satyr, 4 Rakdos Cackler, 3 Ash Zealot
IN: 2 Assemble, 2 Mortars, 3 Fated Conflagration, 2 Glare of Heresy
(burn their threats, win with assemble. Conflagration should be MVP here against BBoV and ghost dad)

[Googims]

dega midrange-burn, haven't had much playtesting yet. went 3-0 against rw burn and 1-1 against mbd preboard the only chance I had to play it.
I did pick up an obz recently that I'd like to try in my list, but there's nothing that I want to cut right now.

deck

---

[deck]Fiery Dega[/deck]

[poppa_f]

dega midrange-burn, haven't had much playtesting yet. went 3-0 against rw burn and 1-1 against mbd preboard the only chance I had to play it.
I did pick up an obz recently that I'd like to try in my list, but there's nothing that I want to cut right now.

deck

---

[deck]Fiery Dega[/deck]

Deck will be a bit slow against control, I'd consider running Spike Jester over YP (having 3 power is really nice as he kills Sylvan Caryatid, which is pretty much a G/R staple these days). I don't really like shock in the new meta, as it is bad against most of the main decks (very few targets to shoot at in mono black, U/w, G/R), so I'd just run more phoenix and dragons instead (Phoenix has to be an auto 4-of imo).

I'd also consider running Exava over reckoner MB, as so few people play aggro these days (eg move reckoner to sideboard). Also not sure you want chained in there at all. You're playing 13 non-mountain lands, so sometimes won't have a mountain to chain to, and with all those black sources, why not just play ultimate price or hero's downfall? (instant speed is particularly relevant for G/R and G/w when things like
Xenagod and Ajani are double pumping guys).

Lastly I'd consider running Boros Charm, you can zap guys like domri and gives you some sweeper protection and the 4 to the dome can be crucial sometimes for closing out games (and it's a sweet target for Chandra's ultimate)

[Googims]

yeah, mdu recommended spike jesters, I just wanted to try out YP. I kept 2 shocks just in case I needed a cheap 2-1 on bigger creatures that I always had problems with (obz) and to killing mana dorks early.
I might drop the chains to add more UPs or downfalls (I tried a singleton downfall which was fine, maybe 2UP/1DF), there's still a lot of aggro in my lgs which is why I have the reckoners.
I had 2 charms in the sideboard, but everything in the board's still in construction.

EDIT: I actually prefer the YPs, I'll stick with my list until I do enough testing before I do any more tweaking.

[Jack]

So this is what I'm thinking for post-BotG meta (weighted a bit towards my local meta, which is heavier on G/x for some reason):

deck

---

[deck]Creatures:18
2 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells:17
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Warleader's Helix

Lands:25
2 Boros Guildgate
11 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard:15
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Boros Charm
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Warleader's Helix
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Fated Conflagration[/deck]

Sideboard-plan

Sideboard-

---

Mono-Black devotion
OUT: 2 Firedrinker Satyr, 4 Rakdos Cackler, 4 Ash Zealot
IN: 1 Chained to the Rocks, 2 Assemble, 1 Helix, 2 Mortars, 3 Fated Conflagration, 1 Boros Charm
(our plan is to survive long enough to resolve an assemble and win with that. Hopefully bait-and-switch on the creatues means they have a hand full of drown in sorrow and bile blight for game 2, which are now pretty useless for them)

G/R
OUT: 2 Firedrinker Satyr, 4 Rakdos Cackler, 2 Magma Jet
IN: 1 Chained to the Rocks, 1 Helix, 2 Mortars, 3 Fated Conflagration, 1 Boros Charm
(burn their creatures out and use flyers to kill them, Boros charm is relevant for protecting chained and killing domri/xenagos)

U/w
OUT: 3 Chained, 2 Mortars, 1 Magma Jet
IN: 1 Boros Charm, 3 Spirit of the Labyrinth, 2 Glare of Heresy
(Spirit stops Sphinx. Use boros charm to dodge sweepers)

B/W
OUT: 2 Firedrinker Satyr, 4 Rakdos Cackler, 3 Ash Zealot
IN: 2 Assemble, 2 Mortars, 3 Fated Conflagration, 2 Glare
of Heresy
(burn their threats, win with assemble. Conflagration should be MVP here against BBoV and ghost dad)

If you're expecting green, I'd go Reckoner<Zealot. Zealot isn't really good right now (2 isn't an important toughness number right now, so she's usually worse than a 1 drop, and she's nonblack and monocolor). Green doesn't have a good way to beat Reckoner, and it's much better versus blue as well.

[poppa_f]

Yeah I see where you're coming from, but I always fancy my chances against green anyway, whereas the matches I find harder (MBD and U/w), zealot is better. Also I prefer the "bait and switch" effect you get from going full Aggro, to control for game 2, so need the zealots in game 1 to sell that

[zeromuzuki]

I saw this R/w list that took the Salt Lake City PTQ.

[deck=Ben Lundgren's Rw Aggro, PTQ Salt Lake 1st Place]
Creatures (20)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Rakdos Cackler
2 Gore-House Chainwalker
4 Viashino Firstblade
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Spark Trooper

Spells (18)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Skullcrack

Land (22)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
9 Mountain
2 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Electrickery
2 Satyr Firedancer
4 Searing Blood
2 Skullcrack
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Toil // Trouble
[/deck]

Link to the top 8 - http://epicpug.com/site/?p=1118

Just played this deck tonight at my local
FNM. Deck ran amazingly well. Went up against the big 3 in the meta. MonoU Devotion, MonoB Devotion, and UW Control. Did some work. I will continue to be playing this list and tweaking it up. I didn't really like the Gore-House Chainwalkers though. Anyone got a suggestion replacement for it?

[magicdownunder]

I'll recommend either Rakdos Cackler, Ash or MD Dancers

[zeromuzuki]

I like the Ash & Dancers ... what do you think of YP? Could he be viable in here? Is there a video out there that shows Ben Lundgren playing his deck against the GR one? Or how does this deck beat the GR Monsters , because I feel like Courser of Kruphix kills us and the ramp + mortars.

[MisterMet]

What I'll be testing once I come back from the workshop:

[deck]Rw Burn - MDU Tweaked[/deck]

I just 3-0'd an 8-man with this list (the only differences were 1 less Toil//Trouble and 2 Satyr Nyx-Smith's in the sideboard).

2-0 vs Mono-Black, 2-1 vs R/W devotion and 2-0 vs Esper Control.

I tried it out in
some 2-mans last night and it seemed to do well against R/G decks then.

[montu]

What I'll be testing once I come back from the workshop:

[deck]Rw Burn - MDU Tweaked[/deck]

I could only play 2 rounds at FNM tonight. (Heading to Singapore tomorrow.) I thought I've give this build a try. The only difference is I actually had 15 cards in my SB.

First round I played a B/W Midrange. Flooding killed me the first game.

I boarded in 1 Charm, 4 Satyrs, 2 Glare, and 4 Sullcracks . . . taking out 3 Reckoner, 4 Dragons, 2 Shocks, and 2 Jets.

I really smashed him in Game 2. Nothing beats hitting the dome with a Warleader's Helix with Satyr in play, killing his Blood Baron. (I did that again with a Charm). Plus, he had all sorts of worthless removal sitting in his hand.

I lost Game 3. Really bad flooding again. 9 lands in play by turn 12.

Of course, after the game I realized I was STUPID for not boarding out land with the Reckoners and Dragons. So, I can't really complain about game 3 flooding. Gotta remember to do that when I lower the curve.

I'm also thinking boarding in Glare wasn't a good move. It doesn't address Blood Baron or Obzedat, really just Elspeth.

Thoughts?

(P.S. In case
you were wondering, in Round 2 I played a super crappy G/R deck that had no duel lands. Very easy win.)

[poppa_f]

Nah boarding in glare is fine. I've seen those guys sideboard in things like Fiendslayer and Archangel of Thune for game 2, also Elspeth. It's rare that you won't have targets for it (the thing I hate game two against those guys is sin collector out of the board)

[pikachufan2164]

Thinking of playing this next week. The local meta is pretty heavy on the control/midrange decks, so the sideboard is more tuned towards those match-ups.

[deck]RWb Burn[/deck]

I may be better off running 2 [card]Toil / Trouble[/card] main instead of the Chained to the Rocks, given that most of the creatures played in my meta are not chainable.

Other sideboard cards I've been
thinking of: Satyr Nyx-Smith or Hammer of Purphoros as an army-in-a-can card against control (not sure which one is better here), Pithing Needle against control, a playset of Searing Blood if aggro is suddenly popular again.

Budget is the main reason why I'm not at full playsets of Sacred Foundry and Boros Reckoner.

[Guttler]

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=192973#p192973]pikachufan2164 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:33 pm[/url
Other sideboard cards I've been thinking of: Satyr Nyx-Smith or Hammer of Purphoros as an army-in-a-can card against control (not sure which one is better here)[/quote]

Hammer is a great card vs control, but it really only belongs in the bigger red decks with around 25 lands. Since your mana curve allows you to be much lower to the ground, go for the Nix-Smith.

[pikachufan2164]

Other sideboard cards I've been thinking of: Satyr Nyx-Smith or Hammer of Purphoros as an army-in-a-can card against control (not sure which one is better here)

Hammer is a great card vs control, but it really only belongs in the bigger red decks with around 25 lands. Since your mana curve allows you to be much lower to the ground, go for the Nix-Smith.

Good point. I guess I was just paranoid about Ashiok stealing the Nyx-Smith and doing evil things with it. (The local meta also happens to be obsessed
with putting mainboard Ashiok in control decks as a meta call against the other control decks).