Fire and Ice Mafia - Game Over!

[Link]

glad we all agree then

[imopen2]

that's not a very town thing to say, suga

[Kazekirimaru]

Vote Count 16!
It's cool for cats

Stardust (0)
zemanjaski (0)
Void (1) - imopen2
Wraith223 (0)
Fate (2) - Wraith223, Void
Captain Murphy (1) - Manders
DroppinSuga (4) - ( G_R ), rezombad, Stardust, Fate
Manders (0)
rezombad (0)
(G_R) (0)
imopen2 (0)

Not Voting (3) - zemanjaski, Captain Murphy, DroppinSuga

With 11 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Deadline is: 14 February, 2014 11:59PM EST

I hope we get a replacement, but is it a good idea to lynch Murphy instead of having him modkilled? Or better yet, if he does end up getting modkilled we vote no lynch if he flips
town?

Mod: would he be modkilled before or after the deadline?

Thank you for posting about the needed replacement, GR.

If a replacement is not found before the Day ends, the slot will be modkilled at Day's end.

[Wraith223]

I came across Wraith's "ZOMG CONTRADICTION" post and realized where the misunderstanding came from.

There could be a
bit of town motivation. He could just be a townie saying the wrong things, like I am. He could even be the doctor. But calling him scum is a good way to get more information from him.

Unvote, vote Freedom

You were asking for it with this post. Scum no. 1 found. All aboard the wagon. Lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch.

No. All he is saying is that he is a townie who is saying the wrong things. What is scummy about that?

In Post 113, you just voted Captain Murphy for Doc hunting and you now find Freedom doing that is OK? What a load of crap as you can't have it both ways! SCUM defending scum
here!

Freedom wasn't attempting to doc hunt. He said there COULD be town motivation behind CM's proposal (and was agreeing with Zemanski when he said so, because Z said that first), but advised that he still thought he was scum.

So, now that I've spelled that out, do you STILL think imopen2 was caught in a contradiction, Wraith?

I still see a scum movement in Imopen2. My read was good at the time and Freedom rolling town helped nothing for reads except on Void, Stardust, and Imopen2 (positive movement, the other 2 are negative). If that was the only read issue; I would be forgiving of that post. Problem is that Imopen2 has claimed no knowledge of the game rules, claimed disinterest in game but continues anyway, and just snipes at players now. Has he helped town yet? No. You are right the my read now is weakened, but Imopen2 stills has past posts that are still highly questionable. If you say freedom was just defending Imopen2; you
sure never came to his defense as you are with Imopen2. You should have defended freedom as well by your own logic.

Why do you keep looking for "town" in players when scum are actively claiming? I don't get you and find this slow playing (withhold vote?) and sniping at me with "Wraith you suck" lacking of a serious player. Does that help town AT ALL? No. You could have just said that you found Fate, Void, or Imopen2 not worthy of votes because of sarcasm or antagonist style playing; but no. You just act as if your opinion has mattered in the slightest as of late and withheld your vote for reasons to be discussed later. Does that help town? No. Your post on Captain Murphy was spot on. What changed to cause the mystery and withhold voting? That post had direction and current ones are just snipes, attacks, or evasion.

In post 706 you reference of me. I found Zem to be putting up material that getting more material for me to process. Other players were responding with good material.
What is wrong with that? It's more than you have been doing! Now I have a question for you. You distrust Stardust but ask him to review that with a "Thanks, bye!" cause you are to busy or unwilling to give a read on it? There is a contradiction. "Don't trust the Canadian!", but later gives him a job with a read?

@DroppinSuga, I know you want to punch me in the face and it's deserved. But why have refused to give any reads on players? Why change votes to the biggest bandwagons? I find you are just picking the top leaders in votes against and just picking that train. That is a fairly strong scum read sir. Any thoughts on Fate or Captain Murphy? Do you find players claiming scum is worthy of a vote? What about Captain Murphy's doc hunt request (worthy of a vote)?

[Manders]

Where did I withhold my vote?

[rezombad]

That being said, I will be leaving this site when this game ends for me. This site is just plain unhealthy.

I don't know how I feel about this part of Void's post. Personally, I see it as out of character for Void, who I don't see as someone to get upset over mafia easily. Manders, any thoughts since you've played with void a lot?

@Wraith: Have you read any of the mafiascum wiki? Or are you still learning this game with no outside influence?

[Manders]

I don't think you'd have to play Mafia with him to get that. I read that as him being tired of this site itself.

[( G_R )]

[imopen2]

I would just like to thank the above post

[Void]

OoG

---

The way some people play Mafia here is just something that I cannot handle to well. I am an emotional player and there have been time where something was said that I took personally when I shouldn't have. It's not fair to the players here or fair to me. I'm not expecting anyone to change their play, because, well, that is your play.

That being said and all, I'm not sure about Murphy, but if the spot will be Mod killed at the End of Day, then perhaps we should lynch that slot. If both are Town, then the Town will be hurting and that is something I don't want.

Doing some quick math: If both slots are Town, then that would be 4 Town members down leaving 9 left. 5 Town and Two Scum.

During the Night two NK's occur and if both Scum teams hit Town, then that leaves 3 Town to 4 Scum. (I don't know who to do probabilities equations. If someone does than that would help
because knowing that math for Scum hitting Scum vs Town would be great). If everything goes down that way, then the Town would have to play flawlessly to win and that is something I would rather avoid.

[Wraith223]

Where did I withhold my vote?

I missed that you were still voting for Capatain Murphy. Sorry. With-holding reads on people for later is just stupid though. I noticed the more expirienced players do this, but it does nothing or is forgotten. It's a wasting typing really. Why say shit like that and let it go for nothing?

@Rez, I don't have time to read through Mafia wiki because my testing dates for DPD is on the 18th and work has me busy. I stop in read through and post some for pushing Fate vote. If i see something confusing; I will look it up on mafia wiki.

On Captain Murphy, not sure I want to vote a guy who has left the game? I still want a response from him before the full lynch. If he is leaving the game in a "mod kill";
what are some theories on lynching someone else that we have on the scum list? Thats 2 positive points for town if two scum are removed. Void just wants to lynch one. Why not let him "expire" on his own? I see this as a rare oppertunity to let a known scum (doc hunter) "expire" and go after another scum target! Thoughts?

[Wraith223]

I don't think you'd have to play Mafia with him to get that. I read that as him being tired of this site itself.

Just the pointless sniping, lack of reasoned votes, targeting of durp players over players that admit to being scum, STUPID withholds of reads, and claims of roles that are unconfirmable. Seems like scum are using the deadline to claim more of us.

Scum List- Please vote for 1 of these so Capain Murphy
can "Expire" with 2 scum down putting town on top!
1. Fate
2. Void (pushing a vote on Captain murphy to loose the chance of hitting 2 scum)
3. Imopen2

4. Captain Murphy- soon to be expire, thus lynching self.

[Wraith223]

You are back to being useless as ever. Has any of your posts even helped town in the slightest? Please vote for a stronger scum target so we can nail 2 scum in one day.

[rezombad]

I think there is a greater than zero chance that cm is scum, so we should let the slot get killed basically geting us two lynches today.

@void: is cm a strong townread for you? If so, could you throw a couple of quotes at me so I can try to see what you're seeing?

[imopen2]

Not sure what the correct play is RE: lynching the mod killed slot or lynching someone else. I'll need to think about it when I'm not so tired.

I felt that CM was scum early, but mostly for one post, and he hasn't done much since. I lean towards lynching someone else since with 2 mafia NK's, we need to start catching scum now, but I haven't done any math or anything..

[Stardust]

That being said and all, I'm not sure about Murphy, but if the spot will be Mod killed at the End of Day, then perhaps we should lynch that slot. If both are Town, then the Town will be hurting and that is something I don't want.

Doing some quick math: If both slots are Town, then that would be 4 Town members down leaving 9 left. 5 Town and Two Scum.

During the Night two NK's occur and if both Scum teams hit Town, then that leaves 3 Town to 4 Scum. (I don't know who to do probabilities equations. If someone does than that would help because knowing that math for Scum hitting Scum vs Town would be great). If everything goes down that way, then the Town would have to play flawlessly to win and that is something I would rather avoid.

Not at all
a fan of this post, Void. You're too experienced a player to be thinking this way. Murphy is not at all confirmed town, so him getting modkilled is basically a free lynch. Even if we are down 2 townies today, it's still the best play since it narrows our options for future Days.

[Wraith223]

That being said and all, I'm not sure about Murphy, but if the spot will be Mod killed at the End of Day, then perhaps we should lynch that slot. If both are Town, then the Town will be hurting and that is something I don't want.

Doing some quick math: If both slots are Town, then that would be 4 Town members down leaving 9 left. 5 Town and Two Scum.

During the Night two NK's occur and if both Scum teams hit Town, then that leaves 3 Town to 4 Scum. (I don't know who to do probabilities equations. If someone does than that would help because knowing that math for Scum hitting Scum vs Town would be
great). If everything goes down that way, then the Town would have to play flawlessly to win and that is something I would rather avoid.

Not at all a fan of this post, Void. You're too experienced a player to be thinking this way. Murphy is not at all confirmed town, so him getting modkilled is basically a free lynch. Even if we are down 2 townies today, it's still the best play since it narrows our options for future Days.

I did not care for his post either. Sounds like fire attacking ice. A void lynch is fine by me.

[Kazekirimaru]

Vote Count 17!
We are still-life and cold blood

Stardust (0)
zemanjaski (0)
Void (1) - imopen2
Wraith223 (0)
Fate (2) - Wraith223, Void
Captain Murphy (1) - Manders
DroppinSuga (4) - ( G_R ), rezombad, Stardust, Fate
Manders (0)
rezombad (0)
(G_R) (0)
imopen2 (0)

Not Voting (3) - zemanjaski, Captain Murphy, DroppinSuga

With 11 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Deadline is: 14 February, 2014 11:59PM EST

[Void]

I'm trying to ensure a Town win here. That was the reason for that last post so that everyone may see what could happen.

As for my read on Murphy, it's a null read at the moment. I don't have enough information on Murphy to confirm anything and therefore lynching someone else and then letting Murphy get Mod killed is not optimal play for the Town here. Optimal play for the Town here is reduce the amount of lynches/kills to have the better chance at a Town win.

@Stardust and Wraith:
Please explain to me why you both want to have 2 lynches/kills when the Town is already at a major disadvantage because of the two Scum teams.

[( G_R )]

You are back to being useless as ever. Has any of your posts even helped town in the slightest? Please vote for a stronger scum target so we can nail 2 scum in one day.

Stronger target? Suga is the strongest. And he has been since yesterDay. I say you guys quit fooling around and give me a good reason why Suga is not already hanging.

[Wraith223]

@Mod/Kaz, If Captain Murphy "expires"; does that start a new day or does he just dissapear with role identified?

@Void, we are down 2 town cause Freedom was poorly playing. Nailing 2 possible scum is the best bet to get back ahead of scum fighting each other. Town needs 2 wins bad or it does not look good.

@G_R, Suga is not the strongest target. He just sits there and does nothing but vote swings. We have Fate claiming scum and not responding. Void is trying to lynch a expiring target and now is backing off of it. Imopen2 has done NOTHING since I put him center stage but snipe other players. Stardust is claiming roles that are not helping town.
Unless you are scum picking on easy targets; DroppinSuga is the weakest target as has voted for scum and changes votes for the next wagoned possible scum. His play style has not changed from other games. That is why I find a vote in D.S. a poor hoice at this moment.
Please reconsider.

[Stardust]

@Stardust and Wraith:
Please explain to me why you both want to have 2 lynches/kills when the Town is already at a major disadvantage because of the two Scum teams.

Let me answer your question with another question: Should we no-lynch today?

[Wraith223]

@Stardust and Wraith:
Please explain to me why you both want to have 2 lynches/kills when the Town is already at a major disadvantage because of the two Scum teams.

Let me answer your question with another question: Should we no-lynch today?

No. Town making the choice is better than scum making 2 kills that we don't approve. I would rather make the decision on who to lynch since we lost Rcwraspy who was using rational thought in this game.

Why are you voting DroppinSuga anyway?

[imopen2]

@Mod/Kaz, If Captain Murphy "expires"; does that start a new day or does he just dissapear with role identified?

@Void, we are down 2 town cause Freedom was poorly playing. Nailing 2 possible scum is the best bet to get back ahead of scum fighting each other. Town needs 2 wins bad or it does not look good.

@G_R, Suga is not the strongest target. He just sits there and does nothing but vote swings. We have Fate claiming scum and not responding. Void is trying to lynch a expiring target and now is backing off of it. Imopen2 has done NOTHING since I put him center stage but snipe other players. Stardust is claiming roles that are not helping town.
Unless you are scum picking on easy targets; DroppinSuga is the weakest target as has voted for scum and
changes votes for the next wagoned possible scum. His play style has not changed from other games. That is why I find a vote in D.S. a poor hoice at this moment. Please reconsider.

Hey dude, have you forgotten my case of void?

I implore you to stfu unless you are willing to objectively look at the actions of the other players in this game rather than MAKING SHIT UP ALL THE TIME

[Wraith223]

@Mod/Kaz, If Captain Murphy "expires"; does that start a new day or does he just dissapear with role identified?

@Void, we are down 2 town cause Freedom was poorly playing. Nailing 2 possible scum is the best bet to get back ahead of scum fighting each other. Town needs 2 wins bad or it does not look good.

@G_R, Suga is not the strongest target. He just sits there and does nothing but vote swings. We have Fate claiming scum and not responding. Void is trying to lynch a expiring target and now is backing off of it. Imopen2 has done NOTHING since I put him center stage but snipe other players.
Stardust is claiming roles that are not helping town.
Unless you are scum picking on easy targets; DroppinSuga is the weakest target as has voted for scum and changes votes for the next wagoned possible scum. His play style has not changed from other games. That is why I find a vote in D.S. a poor hoice at this moment. Please reconsider.

Hey dude, have you forgotten my case of void?

I implore you to stfu unless you are willing to objectively look at the actions of the other players in this game rather than MAKING SHIT UP ALL THE TIME

Think I have enough of your bullshit and lies. I was right about you and Iso in the Pantheon game and called it that Thassa was the lead scum. You cyber bullied me off and fooled everyone. Yes, your read on Void is good and thanks, but that is all you have done. Big deal. I now know that when you get upset and go cyber bully; I am close to hitting my
target. Thanks for the tell. Now please...


unvote, VOTE IMOPEN2 Lests lynch this jerk, lier, cyber bully, and scum.

[Wraith223]

edit "Let's lynch..."

[Stardust]

Why are you voting DroppinSuga anyway?

Because I don't want DroppinSuga on my team and have no better leads.

[Void]

@Stardust:
Of course we don't NL toDay. That is just a stupid idea..

And I agree with Wraith that finding Scum is what the Town needs at this point, but what I don't understand is why someone who might be Town would want to risk the game and go for two flips when one flip has a much better chance to keep the Town in the game.

[Stardust]

@Stardust:
Of course we don't NL toDay. That is just a stupid idea..

Right. And there's a reasonable chance that Murphy is scum. Therefore lynching him when he might get modkilled is a stupid idea for exactly the same reason that no-lynching is a stupid idea.

Even if we do get 2 town flips, town's not looking that bad. We've got a Doctor and once we're down to lower numbers, the scum will start trying to shoot/lynch each other.

[Wraith223]

Why are you voting DroppinSuga anyway?

Because I don't want DroppinSuga on my team and have no better leads.

Your team was not selected by you. Kicking people out for "not wanting them on your team" is not a reason. It's hating someone out. I am not happy with DroppinSuga cause he posts poorly, but so far he has been consistant.

I am starting to get the meesage that you guys want "your"team and just pick on others that aren't "your
level" or in the clique. There are great scum targets that are being ignored for folks "you just don't want on your team"(?). I think that's why you are having trouble looking for new players. Instead of scum hunting; the clique is outsider hunting. How sad.

Do you have any other read on DroppinSuga besides "he is not in my clique"?

[Void]

How do figure there is a reasonable chance that Murphy is Scum? 7 Town to 4 Scum would indicate otherwise.

[Wraith223]

Captain Murpy made an error with the Doc Hunting and never responded to it cause Freedom got in the way. He let Freedom burn for his mistake which indicates scum. He did not need to say much else cause Freedom kept fanning the flames towards himself.

[Stardust]

How do figure there is a reasonable chance that Murphy is Scum? 7 Town to 4 Scum would indicate otherwise.

He made some shady plays, then left. I'm not convinced he is scum, but I'd give him better than the 7-4 odds.

Besides, aren't you the one who wants to lynch him today?

[Stardust]

Do you have any other read on DroppinSuga besides "he is not in my clique"?

Nice, thank you for the follow-up. I like that post and have reinstated you as confirmed town. Do I have a read? Yes, I do. My read is that DroppinSuga is scum.

Day 1 he hopped on basically any wagon that came by (Murphy, zemanjaski, freedom, imopen, zemanjaski, freedom), but I read him as town mostly because of the involvement and confidence that I thought he was showing. However, taken together, I think they show a self-consciousness in his reasoning for making those votes.

A bigger factor is his inconsistencies. He goes from "lynch this man[/url:
1pxlu6a5]" to "[url=http://diestoremoval.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2234&p=177774#p177774]wanting more discussion", then back to bloodthirsty less than 24 hours later. A while later he "hammers" and says that this day has gone on far too long. Didn't he just say he wanted discussion?

We start Day 2 with fishing which moves into screwing up the game setup. Normally I'd call that slightly town leaning except that it felt to me like the posts leading up to that (where Suga hinted
at being confirmed town somehow) were him setting up a fake-claim. There's no townie mindset there, making this the biggest tell against him.

He vote jumps a couple times, then ducks and covers once the votes shift to him. He hasn't made a real post in nearly a week now.

[( G_R )]

Let's say enough people vote Void. Then let's say that he flips town. Then CM gets modkilled and flips town as well. Would you say a no-lynch is a bad idea in that case? Why yes, or why not?

[imopen2]

I'm not bullying you, wraith. I'm asking you to please stop posting incorrect information about me in this game. It is called "mis-repping" and it has to stop. I am town, and if you are town, you need to put more effort into being CORRECT in your portrayal of the actions of others.

If you would like I can iso your posts and find all of the inaccuracies you have posted about me and other players ITT, but I would prefer you just stop doing it.

[( G_R )]

What if CM flips scum? And Void town in my hypothetical scenario?

[( G_R )]

Best case scenario is if they both flip scum... in that case you should be voting for scum.

[( G_R )]

INB4 someone says I'm implying Void isn't scum.

Newsflash: I have him as null for the time being.

[( G_R )]

I have Suga as scum, though. Wow. Very scum. So mafia.