Dies To Removal Mafia - Game Over (Mafia Win)

[hamfactorial]

Finished up with my re-read from the beginning of day 2.

I was thinking earlier about Suga's decision to replace Z back into the game. In the interest of game integrity and balance, I don't think Suga would have a player replace in and give him a bunch of role information that put him or his team at a clear advantage.

We know that old Z was town Kait, the doctor, so there are two possibilities that I see from the mod's perspective.

1. Z replaces into a town role with no advantage (vanilla)
2. Z replaces into a mafia role

Possibility #2 gives a ton of new information to newly-scum Z, as he would now know the alignment of 2-3 mafia players, as well as every non-mafia player. I assume that Suga hasn't set up 2 separate mafia teams in a game this small.

From a mod's perspective, the least disruptive choice is to replace Z into another town role. I assume this has happened.

Perhaps it's dangerous to
modgame (got me mislynched in Ragnarok), but it's on my mind.

Is my interpretation valid?

[DroppinSuga]

Vote Count:
zemanjaski (1)- stardust
hamfactorial (2)- imopen2, wraith223

With 9 alive, it's 5 for a lynch

[Stardust]

Is my interpretation valid?

No. Every scum player "knows the alignment of 2-3 mafia players, as well as every non-mafia player". townZ had no information that wasn't public, so he could have replaced into any role.

Are you trying to town slip? You're a bright guy, and I can't believe anyone could have come to those conclusions. You know how this game works, right?

Also, full town/scum list please.

[hamfactorial]

I'm good at math, not interpreting passive aggression. What's incorrect about my mod analysis? I posit that Suga wouldn't replace Z into a mafia role because he'd have an advantage from town interaction prior to death.

Town:
Freedom
G_R
Z
Wraith
Raspy

Null:
Mogadishu Jones
imopen2

Scum:
Stardust

[Wraith223]

I'm good at math, not interpreting passive aggression. What's incorrect about my mod analysis? I posit that Suga wouldn't replace Z into a mafia role because he'd have an advantage from town interaction prior to death.

Town:
Freedom
G_R
Z
Wraith
Raspy

Null:
Mogadishu Jones
imopen2

Scum:
Stardust

Why would you hold Freedom at Town with all the odd to pure scum posts? What about Stardust is sum to you? Simple break down will be fine.

[hamfactorial]

Stardust's dogged pursuit of Z makes him look scummy to me. I read Z as town earlier, so when I saw Stardust on him I assume malice.

Also he said mean things and I'm sensitive

Freedom went along with Z's plan to test raspy's unlynchable claim at the start of day 2. Either they're both scummy and I'm being fooled by them acting in concert, or he's super town. Note his good posts and analysis of the bus driver ability after night 1.

[Stardust]

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=171307#p171307:2e1h33b2]hamfactorial » Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:01 pm[/url:2e1h33b2]":2e1h33b2]I'm good at math, not interpreting passive aggression. What's incorrect about my mod analysis? I posit that Suga wouldn't replace Z into a mafia role because he'd have an advantage from town interaction prior to death.[/quote:2e1h33b2]
What advantage would he have? It skews his play regardless of town or mafia. If he replaces into a town role, he can do a better job of proving it by holding to his former (confirmed town) reads. If he replaces into a scum role, he needs to work with those reads as well. Usually replacement with dead players is avoided for this reason.

Anyway, just take my word for it that it does happen. Captain Murphy replaced into a scum role after dying as town in Checkbox mafia.

[Stardust]

Time to review rezombad's interactions since I believe he's dead scum.

Vote Lord_McDonalds

RVS votes LMD (replaced by scumZ) waaaaay after RVS is over. Later unvotes and plays is as a reaction gambit. Lots of WIFOM surrounding this, but could have been used to distance.

Grills townZ for a bit. Asks GR a throwaway question. Asks me a real question.

Trolls townZ with haikus and simpson pics. Answers Pie's question in detail.

Back and forth with Wraith. These guys are definitely not both scum. He even asks me about Wraith... trying to get me on board maybe?

Kills townZ.

Considers going after rcw after I start doing so and discusses rcw's claim a bit. Carries on not believing the claim later on.

Votes
freedom for WTF, then unvotes.

Makes a bad case on me and refuses to answer my questions. Repeatedly.

Continues to call rcw scum.

Must be nice to do nothing, badly fuck up, then go back to doing nothing knowing you won't be lynched or NK'd. Can you at least try to help?

Is this you trying to set me up for a mislynch later? Or are you just being petty because you got shot for being scummy as fuck?
What about rcw being unlynchable makes me suspicious?

Here's a solid interaction with scumZ. Replied to later in some detail.

That's it.

Lots of interaction: Wraith, rcwraspy, Stardust
Some interaction: zemanjaski (LMD),
freedom
Little or no interaction: Jones (DocLawless), hamfactorial, imopen2, G_R


I'll do the reverse interactions tomorrow.

I've also concluded that imopen must be town. Like, 99% based on what happened last night. This is conditional on me being town (which I obviously know), but unless someone else can explain why rezombad died, I'm going to assume imopen is town.

[( G_R )]

Not to defend zem, but the reason I, GR, think it's a good idea to put rcwraspy's ability to the test (toDay and even toMorrow) is because he has stated that it is not an x-shot thing, but "forever". If he's town he has no reason to lie about it, so putting it to the test sounds like a sure win, because if he's town and saying the truth nothing will happen except the thread grows some posts and Suga has to post a vote count, yet if he's scum and he's lying we just lynched scum.

I believe that there's still a reasonable doubt (lol) that he's town because no cop has surfaced, why would he be a miller? So he's either lying about it or rezombad was the cop, or the cop is not saying anything why would you do that cop, just tell us who to lynch or not to lynch.

[Stardust]

It's Day 2. The cop shouldn't come forward without a guilty until at least Day 3. Don't know why you'd expect them to.

But yeah, you're right that it made sense to test rcw's claim once he claimed fully unlynchable. What about before he claimed fully?

[Jack]

Well, if we have a cop that survives the Night, we're pretty much sure to win the game if we lynch scum toDay.

[Wraith223]

Wasting a day/time on Rcw is dumb. Ham has now started talking more. I suspect he was lurking on purpose and Stardust and I raised enough stink to get him to post more.

Rcwraspy, why so quiet? Who do you find as scum?

[zemanjaski]

Wall of text coming later, but I think the scum team is Stardust, imopen2 and an unknown (ham or freedom are still my suspects).

Until then, Unvote, vote Stardust

[( G_R )]

It's Day 2. The cop shouldn't come forward without a guilty until at least Day 3. Don't know why you'd expect them to.

But yeah, you're right that it made sense to test rcw's claim once he claimed fully unlynchable. What about before he claimed fully?

IDK, I thought a townie result, plus the cop claim would narrow even more the lynch pool, specially since the game was as dead as it was. But, I guess you're right, not enough reason to out themselves yet.

RE: rcw, even if he didn't claim fully, a townie would have claimed "I'm a one (two, three, etc.) shot unlychable", if it were the case and he felt it was needed.

[zemanjaski]

Alright, I don't have as much time as I would like, so formatting has to give way for the sake of completeness. Enjoy the text wall.

Pretty sure he confirmed he wasn't a 1 shot days ago so I need to check that

Still waiting for this too.

The fact that he hadn't confirmed is the reason why your actions surrounding this was scummy. Especially after rezombad's lack of flip and imopen's claim, there was no reason to push rcw. 1) Confirming town for no reason can actually harm the town since it gives the scum clearer targets, and 2) If he was 1-shot, what then? That would not have
confirmed him scum. If he was 1-shot, lynching him without behavioural analysis to back it up is at best awful play, but much more likely scum motivated.

Reason 1 is total bullshit and you know it. SCUM ALREADY KNOW WHO TOWN IS. What is the Town motivation for lying about the ability? There isn't a scenario where raspy witholding the info ends up helping Town; he looked so scummy because of the way he played it, we would likely go after him again at some point anyway. Or scum kills him anyway after seeing that he cannot be lynched and we (Town) benefit from having a day with a stronger Town voting block. There is also the possibility that we have a watcher role, and that person could have watch raspy and provide Town more information that way. Your reasoning is additionally faulty because scum tried to kill raspy anyway* so he was already a clear target, before I pushed the test.

You need to explain the scum motivation for reason 2. You have continually said &
quot;such and such behaviour is scum" without explaining. We're mostly noobs now, tell us why. Then counter-argue G_R's point that (a point I have made previously and that you have ignored) that Town would not withold that information because it is useful for Town. Explain.

You've still not addressed my request for an explanation of why you don't see anyone else pushing for the test (we had to get enough votes to test the lynch afterall) as scummy. You're tunelling to the exclusion of all others, which is not in keeping with your play yesterday. That's a huge red flag for me. You seem to think that my strategem as scum is to draw as much possible attention to myself as I can?

[quote="zemanjaski » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:47 pm":
7fn7my6t]You unvoting is irrelevant. I was following your arguments, not your vote. You unvoting doesn't make your argument that Pie might be scum disappear.

Here Z is talking about my unvote and why it shouldn't have swayed his opinion. A simple unvote shouldn't have, but Z saw the same thing in Pie's townie rage as I did (and said as much shortly before trying to get him lynched). My unvote combined with Z's own read should have swayed his opinion. Instead he got bloodthirsty. 100% serious, this is by far the scummiest thing that has gone down all game. By far. There is no way Z is town.[/quote]

Again, you don't explain why it is scummy. I explained my reasoning repeatedly, which you continue to ignore (is that a scum tell?). If it is so scummy, why didn't you say anything at the time? Others did - DocLawless and Freedom both questioned me about it extensively. G_R was in on it too. But they're not scum right? It's only scum if you say so yes?

It is bizzare that when it comes to Freedom you expect me to listen to "strong" players, but when it regards Pie, I am expected to make up my own mind independant of the discussion of others and ignore those same strong players. Which is it Stardust? Can I listen to others or not?

Explain the inconsistencies in your argument.

There is no inconsistency. You can read freedom however you want to. My point is that he can read Pie however he wants to. Reading Pie as town was certainly possible (you did so yourself). There was no deadline. Pushing freedom to vote Pie showed your thirst for blood more than anything else.

[/quote]

Just like you're pushing Ham to vote for me now, going so far as to bully him. You're scum right?

That fact is SD, you made a huge error that you've
refused to actually admit to. In one breath you say it is scummy for me not to follow the advice of other players; and in the next say it is scummy when I do. It cannot be both as you claimed. What lies at the core here is you trying to control the narrative of the discourse, and I simply won't allow it. That's why you want me gone, because you don't like what questions I am asking. You're basically doing all of the bloodthirsty acts you accused me of, which is amusing in itself.

Jones! You're confirmed town, good job. Wanna help me out here?

He actually isn't, not at all. The player he replaced acted Town, but that wasn't enough to confirm him, and it certainly doesn't extend to a player who has done nothing so far. I want everyone to pay attention to this cry for help -
that isn't how Stardust played Day 1 at all; Day 1 Stardust presented logical arguments and allowed others to make up their mind. Day 2 Stardust whines for help when she isn't getting the results she wants and tries to bully inexperienced players. We're seeing appeals to emotion instead of appeals to logic now.

Other points of concern:
- its only scummy if I want to test rcw's claim. G_R proposed to do it again, but that's fine, as it is only scum when I do it.
- does anyone else find it strange that Stardust now considers Rez likely scum despite being the player who stated that Rez waas "95%" likely Town after the day kill? Thing is, Stardust needs Rez to be Town for her claimed "we can make a mislynch and still win" scenarios; she doesn't even mention the possibility that Rez isn't scum (which he won't be, 95% of the time). which misleads Town substantially. SD is the most experienced player and would be fully aware of how important Rez not revealing an alignment would be;
yet no mention. We need to consider that Rez was Town.
- SD has spent all of toDay tunelling me, after barely interacting with me yesterDay. From straight out of the gates, she had run lines of argument that ignore the contribution and encouragement of others. We've already seen that her argument that testing raspy is incredibly weak, so the rest has become this manufactured "we should kill him anyway; we can make a mistake and still win". That's not the position of someone who can make a real case, that's the position of someone who is desperate.

You're not dumb Stardust and we all know that, so what I am going to keep coming back to, throughout your posts, is how forced and strained your logic is to try and sway people to side with you against me. The reason that you're not having the success toDay that you did yesterDay is for this reason - you're arguments aren't grounded in the same logic and credibility as they were previously.

You seem afraid. You've made multiples lines of
argument that seek to silence or control my contributions, and that isn't Town behavior at all.

You're scum.

[zemanjaski]

@ Ham; can you explain Jones as null for me? Did you have Doc as null?

[Stardust]

Ugh, I'm tired of repeating myself. Your text wall is full of untruths and questions I've already answered. It doesn't even matter. Lynch me first if you guys want to. I'm 90% sure we've got this game in the bag without any further evidence.

So, in the interest of being able to extract a claim and analyze, everyone should consider the deadline to be the end of today, Wednesday. That'll give us time to avoid scrambling at the end. The three lynch options are zemanjaski, hamfactorial or Stardust. State in your next post who your prefered lynch would be of those three, we'll get a claim based on responses from everyone and go from there. Good?

I'll go first: zemanjaski.

[Stardust]

I guess throwing up my hands completely isn't very helpful. I refuse to waste my time with you anymore, but I ought to at least point out the lies.

---

Your reasoning is additionally faulty because scum tried to kill raspy anyway* so he was already a clear target, before I pushed the test.

Irrevelant. You didn't know this when you went after rcw. Or maybe you did and just slipped. Either way.

You're tunelling to the exclusion of all others, which is not in keeping with your play yesterday. That's a huge
red flag for me. You seem to think that my strategem as scum is to draw as much possible attention to myself as I can?

Remember when I tunneled you Day 1? And then decided that you were town based on your responses?

Putting words in my mouth.

Again, you don't explain why it is scummy. I explained my reasoning repeatedly, which you continue to ignore (is that a scum tell?). If it is so scummy, why didn't you say anything at the time? Others did - DocLawless and Freedom both questioned me about it extensively. G_R was in on it too. But they're not scum right? It's only scum if you say so yes?

I did already explain why it's scummy. I also already answered why I didn't say anything at the time (Day 1, Z asked for my input then pushed the lynch to completion in about 4
hours). Then you go on to put words in my mouth again, based on something I've already explained (hint: everyone else followed you Day 2 after rcw full claimed).

Just like you're pushing Ham to vote for me now, going so far as to bully him. You're scum right?

Here's a lie, flat out.

That fact is SD, you made a huge error that you've refused to actually admit to. In one breath you say it is scummy for me not to follow the advice of other players; and in the next say it is scummy when I do. It cannot be both as you claimed. What lies at the core here is you trying to control the narrative of the discourse, and
I simply won't allow it. That's why you want me gone, because you don't like what questions I am asking. You're basically doing all of the bloodthirsty acts you accused me of, which is amusing in itself.

The difference is I never had you as town. Explain the bolded. You've been doing nothing Day 2.

He actually isn't, not at all. The player he replaced acted Town, but that wasn't enough to confirm him, and it certainly doesn't extend to a player who has done nothing so far. I want everyone to pay attention to this cry for help - that isn't how Stardust played Day 1 at all; Day 1 Stardust presented logical arguments and allowed others to make up their mind. Day 2 Stardust whines for help when she isn't getting the results she wants and tries
to bully inexperienced players. We're seeing appeals to emotion instead of appeals to logic now.

Again with the bullying comment. I haven't bullied anyone. My "whining" to get Jones's input is similar to when I asked Doc or Pie for input repeatedly Day 1, but that is ignored. Not to mention he's now questioning strong town reads he himself shared at the time.

- its only scummy if I want to test rcw's claim. G_R proposed to do it again, but that's fine, as it is only scum when I do it.

Being intentionally dense and ignoring that I've repeatedly said it makes sense now that rcw has fully claimed.

- does anyone
else find it strange that Stardust now considers Rez likely scum despite being the player who stated that Rez waas "95%" likely Town after the day kill? Thing is, Stardust needs Rez to be Town for her claimed "we can make a mislynch and still win" scenarios; she doesn't even mention the possibility that Rez isn't scum (which he won't be, 95% of the time). which misleads Town substantially. SD is the most experienced player and would be fully aware of how important Rez not revealing an alignment would be; yet no mention. We need to consider that Rez was Town.

Ignoring the fact that I was voting for rezombad when Day 1 ended. Also ignoring the fact that I did mention the possibility that rez isn't scum. Also ignoring the fact that I went into detail previously on rezombad's hidden flip.

[quote="zemanjaski » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:30 am":
39s3a4ct]- SD has spent all of toDay tunelling me, after barely interacting with me yesterDay. From straight out of the gates, she had run lines of argument that ignore the contribution and encouragement of others. We've already seen that her argument that testing raspy is incredibly weak, so the rest has become this manufactured "we should kill him anyway; we can make a mistake and still win". That's not the position of someone who can make a real case, that's the position of someone who is desperate.[/quote]
Ignoring that I have repeatedly stated that my case is based not on rcw but on Pie. zemanjaski tried to counter that initially with "Look at these other guys!!" but has now continued to ignore that line of questioning, probably because he has no defense. Z's stated townie reasoning for pushing to lynch his town read (Pie) was to get information. He still has yet to go back and use that information even in the slightest.

- You've made multiples lines of argument that seek to silence or control my contributions

Bold words. Better find some quotes to back that up since as is this is just blatant smearing.

Engaged a bit more than I intended to. Whatever.

[imopen2]

Ugh...

Ham or Zem

[( G_R )]

Ugh...

Ham or Zem

++

[( G_R )]

Here's something funny:

Vote Hamfactorial

Vote zemanjaski

[hamfactorial]

@ Ham; can you explain Jones as null for me? Did you have Doc as null?

I had Doc as null mostly based on limited memory. I did a re-read of Doc after I read your question and his posts look town, especially this one where he's refusing to be pushed around by you browbeating him.

As for MoJones, all he's done since he's replaced is asked for a summary, refused to read the thread, said he was town, and disappear. He probably is, even though he's not doing anything.

[Stardust]

Suga! Prod Mogadishu Jones please.

[rcwraspy]

Well, if we have a cop that survives the Night, we're pretty much sure to win the game if we lynch scum toDay.

How? I think this assumes that Rezombad is dead scum, but only his scum-teammates would know that for sure. A lot of us think Rez was probably scum, but we have to operate with the math as if he were a townie so as not to screw this up. Using strong language to state otherwise seems deceptive to me.

[rcwraspy]

Rcwraspy, why so quiet? Who do you find as scum?

I've stated repeatedly that I do the majority of my posting from work. When the work day ends, most of my content will too. I'm on the east coast.

[rcwraspy]

Rcwraspy, why so quiet? Who do you find as scum?

I've stated repeatedly that I do the majority of my posting from work. When the work day ends, most of my content will too. I'm on the east coast.

Bah, forgot to get to the actual reason for quoting you and responding to you.

I think the scum team is among this pool:

Zemanjaski
Freedom
Hamfactorial
Stardust

Z and Stardust are both on there but I can't fathom them BOTH being scum. They're at eachother's throats and only 1 is scum, I think. So that makes their teammates Freedom, Ham, and/or Rezombad the
Dead.

I also have doubts about Wraith and G_R, but neither strongly enough to pursue for a lynch toDay.

[rcwraspy]

I guess throwing up my hands completely isn't very helpful. I refuse to waste my time with you anymore, but I ought to at least point out the lies.

---

Your reasoning is additionally faulty because scum tried to kill raspy anyway* so he was already a clear target, before I pushed the test.

Irrevelant. You didn't know this when you went after rcw. Or maybe you did and just slipped. Either way.

You're tunelling to the exclusion of all others, which is not in keeping with your play yesterday. That's a huge red flag for me. You seem to think that my strategem as scum is to draw as much possible attention to myself as I can?

Remember when I tunneled you Day 1? And then decided that you were town based on your responses?

Putting words in my mouth.

Again, you don't explain why it is scummy. I explained my reasoning repeatedly, which you continue to ignore (is that a scum tell?). If it is so scummy, why didn't you say anything at the time? Others did - DocLawless and Freedom both questioned me about it extensively. G_R was in on it too. But they're not scum right? It's only scum if you say so yes?

I did already explain why it's
scummy. I also already answered why I didn't say anything at the time (Day 1, Z asked for my input then pushed the lynch to completion in about 4 hours). Then you go on to put words in my mouth again, based on something I've already explained (hint: everyone else followed you Day 2 after rcw full claimed).

Just like you're pushing Ham to vote for me now, going so far as to bully him. You're scum right?

Here's a lie, flat out.

That fact is SD, you made a huge error that you've refused to actually admit to. In one breath you say it is scummy for me not to follow the advice of other players; and in the
next say it is scummy when I do. It cannot be both as you claimed. What lies at the core here is you trying to control the narrative of the discourse, and I simply won't allow it. That's why you want me gone, because you don't like what questions I am asking. You're basically doing all of the bloodthirsty acts you accused me of, which is amusing in itself.

The difference is I never had you as town. Explain the bolded. You've been doing nothing Day 2.

He actually isn't, not at all. The player he replaced acted Town, but that wasn't enough to confirm him, and it certainly doesn't extend to a player who has done nothing so far. I want everyone to pay attention to this cry for help - that isn't how Stardust played Day 1 at all; Day 1 Stardust
presented logical arguments and allowed others to make up their mind. Day 2 Stardust whines for help when she isn't getting the results she wants and tries to bully inexperienced players. We're seeing appeals to emotion instead of appeals to logic now.

Again with the bullying comment. I haven't bullied anyone. My "whining" to get Jones's input is similar to when I asked Doc or Pie for input repeatedly Day 1, but that is ignored. Not to mention he's now questioning strong town reads he himself shared at the time.

- its only scummy if I want to test rcw's claim. G_R proposed to do it again, but that's fine, as it is only scum when I do it.

Being intentionally dense and ignoring that I've repeatedly said it makes sense now that rcw has fully claimed.

- does anyone else find it strange that Stardust now considers Rez likely scum despite being the player who stated that Rez waas "95%" likely Town after the day kill? Thing is, Stardust needs Rez to be Town for her claimed "we can make a mislynch and still win" scenarios; she doesn't even mention the possibility that Rez isn't scum (which he won't be, 95% of the time). which misleads Town substantially. SD is the most experienced player and would be fully aware of how important Rez not revealing an alignment would be; yet no mention. We need to consider that Rez was Town.

Ignoring the fact that I was voting for rezombad when Day 1 ended. Also ignoring the fact that I did mention the possibility that rez isn't scum. Also ignoring the fact that I went into detail previously on rezombad's hidden flip.

- SD has spent all of toDay tunelling me, after barely interacting with me yesterDay. From straight out of the gates, she had run lines of argument that ignore the contribution and encouragement of others. We've already seen that her argument that testing raspy is incredibly weak, so the rest has become this manufactured "we should kill him anyway; we can make a mistake and still win". That's not the position of someone who can make a real case, that's the position of someone who is desperate.

Ignoring that I have repeatedly stated that my case is based not on rcw but on Pie. zemanjaski tried to counter that initially with "Look at these other guys!!" but has now continued to ignore that line of questioning, probably because he has no defense. Z's stated townie reasoning for pushing to
lynch his town read (Pie) was to get information. He still has yet to go back and use that information even in the slightest.

- You've made multiples lines of argument that seek to silence or control my contributions

Bold words. Better find some quotes to back that up since as is this is just blatant smearing.

Engaged a bit more than I intended to. Whatever.

There are things in here that look REALLY bad for you, Z. I'm focusing on the first 3 and the second to last in particular.

I'd be fine with a Zemanjaski lynch unless his responses really convince me.

[Stardust]

Stardust's official want-to-lynch count!

zemanjaski - 3.5 - Stardust, imopen0.5, GR, rcwraspy (?)
hamfactorial - 2.5 - Wraith223 (?), imopen0.5, GR
Stardust - 2 - zemanjaski (?), hamfactorial (?)

Need to hear from: Jones, freedom

? means I'm assuming based on what they've said recently rather than from a direct reply. Feel free to change anything, I'll keep the tally running. I'd suggest asking for a claim from either whoever's highest (after all have checked in) or if someone reaches 4 (since we're 5 to lynch at the moment).

[rcwraspy]

you can take the question mark off mine. Put Z at 4.

[Stardust]

He's at 3.5 because of imopen0.5, but sure.

[Stardust]

Well, really should be 3 I guess unless you want to count GR as a double want-to-lyncher too.

[Wraith223]

That break down from on Zem was really good. I think both Zem and stardust are scum to some extent.

Here is the issue I see. Iamopen2 could be lying on his role and Stardust has a scummy voting record. They are both voting together to lynch Zem. Rwcraspy, I really want you to question your vote based on that. If we lynch Zem and he roles town; scum will night kill another towny. Thats 2 more down.

Is a double vote a town ability genarlly or scum? I find another ability to night kill of a scum very broken. Can we confirm G_R actually has a double vote?

Based on my facts, Unvote, VOTE STARDUST I find the evidence of possible lies and scummy voting coming together for a vote to be scum team.

[Stardust]

Jesus, Wraith. Playing with you is like playing Werewolf with my alzheimer's-stricken grandmother.

What's scummy about my voting record?
Why are you using scare tactics? Of course we'll be 2 townies down if we lynch town today. That shouldn't stop us from lynching someone.
Why are you so concerned that Z might be town yet you seem to have no fear at all that I'm town?

I went into detail earlier about the double voter, but it is very likely a town ability.


Stardust's official want-to-lynch count!

zemanjaski - 3.5 - Stardust, imopen0.5, GR, rcwraspy
hamfactorial - 1.5 - imopen0.5, GR
Stardust - 3 - zemanjaski (?), hamfactorial (?), Wraith223

Need to hear from: Jones, freedom

[Stardust]

Also, Wraith, why is imopen suddenly one of your top suspects?

[Wraith223]

Jesus, Wraith. Playing with you is like playing Werewolf with my alzheimer's-stricken grandmother.

What's scummy about my voting record?
Why are you using scare tactics? Of course we'll be 2 townies down if we lynch town today. That shouldn't stop us from lynching someone.
Why are you so concerned that Z might be town yet you seem to have no fear at all that I'm town?

I went into detail earlier about the double voter, but it is very likely a town ability.


Stardust's official want-to-lynch count!

zemanjaski - 3.5 - Stardust, imopen0.5, GR, rcwraspy
hamfactorial - 1.5 - imopen0.5, GR
Stardust - 3 - zemanjaski (?), hamfactorial (?), Wraith223

nNeed to hear from: Jones, freedom

Name calling, mudd slinging...bandwagoning. I am giving state of game and end results of voting. Those are not scare tactics. They are considerations. I seriously doubt LMD was scum.
You backed out of previous votes. You claimed town positions as if you are vote shopping a target (not interested in certain players for ones that are clearly good targets). Zem might be scum but he posts with so much pomp that is hard to read, thus I look at LMD posts instead.
Because I can not confirm his claim and it would be an easy gamble to seal himself as town. You two voting together is what caught my attention. You also placed his name directly after yours. Folks tend to group each other together without thinking about it.

[Wraith223]

EDIT
Name calling, mudd slinging...bandwagoning. I am giving state of game and end results of voting. Those are not scare tactics. They are considerations. I seriously doubt LMD was scum.
You backed out of previous votes. You claimed town positions as if you are vote shopping a target (not interested in certain players that are clearly good targets and go after players that are outliers). Zem might be scum but he posts with so much pomp that is hard to read, thus I look at LMD posts instead.
on Iamopen2, I can not confirm his claim and it would be an easy gamble to seal himself as town. You two voting together is what caught my attention. You also placed his name directly after yours. Folks tend to group each other together without thinking about it.

[Stardust]

not interested in certain players that are clearly good targets and go after players that are outliers

Wait a second. So you're suggesting that townStardust would obviously want to lynch the good nightkill targets, but scumStardust would instead want to save them for the nightkill? Why bother wasting a lynch on a perfectly good townie, may as well kill some of the unknowns? Is that it?

Where did I name call? Where did I mud sling? For that matter, where did I bandwagon?


As for imopen's claim, let's take zemanjaski as an example for a sec. He hasn't claimed yet. If he did, would you suspect him more because he might be lying?

[Wraith223]

not interested in certain players that are clearly good targets and go after players that are outliers

Wait a second. So you're suggesting that townStardust would obviously want to lynch the good nightkill targets, but scumStardust would instead want to save them for the nightkill? Why bother wasting a lynch on a perfectly good townie, may as well kill some of the unknowns? Is that it?

Where did I name call? Where did I mud sling? For that matter, where did I bandwagon?


As for imopen's claim, let's take zemanjaski as an example for a sec. He hasn't claimed yet. If he did,
would you suspect him more because he might be lying?

Dude, you called me a grandma with CRS.

Town Stardust would not back out of a vote to appear town. You knew we were in agreement on InflateablePie. I can't trust or take anything Zem seriously as he plays himself in every player he takes over, thus I have to read the original players content. LMD appeared town to me. Zem always loads his posts with leading questions and trap responses. He is a lawayer! All their writing sounds summy to some extent. Zem plays aggressive and takes poor gambles. Nothing has changed from he original chractor to the LMD Doppleganger.

[imopen2]

Hey wraith, I'm actually voting ham right now. What are you talking about?

[Wraith223]

Hey wraith, I'm actually voting ham right now. What are you talking about?

Damn it! I missunderstood Stardust's list of votes when it said "Want to lynch count".

Back to the drawing board...