Dies To Removal Mafia - Game Over (Mafia Win)

[Wraith223]

- snip-

@Zem, just talking shit and babbling to just hear yourself talk is crappy posting at it's core. Why do you keep repeating yourself (crappy posts)? Not getting the answers you want from me? I poste anything these days and you call it crappy posting.
Thus why bother responding anymore to scum, mental priming. "trying to speed the game up" is a classic means for scum to survive as town folks are at risk more when they make hasty, primed decisions. Looking at the opposite perspective, Zem could really be trying to get scum to slip up as freedom did. Will still be watching Zem closely.

This is my first game and do not expect special treatment. - snip -

but I am new

The bolded parts look weird to me.

I asked you questions you haven't answered. Are you really going to avoid them because I might criticize the answers?

Any post not worshiping your "briliiance" looks weird to you. D your own f'ing research to find out.

I somehow missed the question post. Ok, I can see you have never actually done any
police work. A good LEO listens for the while, watches the first ones to speak, checks responses from others, and waits for evidence. No crime has been commited yet. It's still the first day. I would say it's a feel good session to make any big claims but...freedom. Yeah, not the brightest post. Generally, the loadest one screaming "look at someone else" is the scum. Letting the supstect talk themselves into a corner is nuub level interrogation skills. Your personality screams talk to appear the smartest guy in the room, thus a broad claim that scum hide in the shadows is missleading. The alternative is so overt; it's covert

We haven't heard from some in a great amount for analysis.

OK, you're frustrated town. Thanks I think you can leave the personal attacks for the clan thread though, I am very happy to take it up there or in PM.

FYI scum to hide in the
shadows in mafia, there are lots of articles on it.

[pedit]Wraith, yes I am a lawyer. And I would disagree that talking gets you in to trouble. I don't work in criminal law, I am a commercial laywer so it is a different mindset. It's my job to get people talking and agreeing.

I think not talking broadly benefits scum. If no one says anything, then we'll never find them. Thoughts?

I agree with you that freedom now finds himself in a difficult position. An alternative for him to avoid being the lynch toDay would be to find someone more scummy that we can lynch instead.

I getch yah. It was calculated hostlity. I hate voting on Freedom for a squrew up as it is to easy. Freedom's post really made no sense to me and appeared as "i am smart to!" in response to decent analysis from a few. It drastically failed...or it worked to pick out the thinkers for nightkills.

[rezombad]

Vote Lord_McDonalds

[hamfactorial]

Lots of interesting things happening in here. I got caught up from page but I don't have time tonight. MTGO has some maintenance downtime tomorrow morning, so I'll use that time to pick through the thread and respond to questions or comments directed at me instead of grinding against neckbeards.

[hamfactorial]

EBWODP: Caught up from page 2, meant to say.

[rezombad]

MOTHERFUCKING WALLS OF TEXT BATMAN

I wanted to see how people would react and I got four great reactions to start working through tomorrow. Couldn't have worked out better.

Why not start working through them now? i see that you do start later.

What reactions were you hoping to get, exactly?

Why did you say your claim was a joke, then continue to push Stardust to try to get him to claim cop?

If your 'gambit' was obviously fake, how are any reactions that you did get valuable? What are you looking for?

How is a facepalm to your now admittedly fake claim the most town thing possible? Wouldn't the most town thing be to lynch the liar?
aside: I
just finished a game where we didn't lynch the 'lol fakeclaim'ing person and they ended up being scum.

Why are you bothering to ask ham to deny your accusation when 2 posts prior to his you admit to fake claiming?

If you honestly believe someone scumslipped, why not focus on getting that person lynched rather than trying "to find someone more scummy that we can lynch instead."

@G_R: should I change my avatar?

@Stardust: I didn't read your 'you are not the cop' post as 'I am the cop, you are not the cop'. Why does everyone assume you're counterclaiming?

aside: I will not be entertaining meta posts re: zem since this his second game and the first ended rather abruptly.

@All: You guys seriously need to start trimming quotes and only quote relevant parts, shits irritating and it makes things way harder to read.

Unvote

pedit
: I noticed freedom, doclawless, zemanjawski and imopen2 come and go without saying anything after i naked voted lmd.

[Mcdonalds]

That post I was talking about ...

Thoughts (hardly a T/S given not everyone has posted and only 2-3 people have done anything beyond RVS votes and questions):

@Rezombad: RVS or for real, you know I lurk habitually by now

Z: I distrust role fishing by default (for reasons explained in this thread already, by z strangely), his response to stardusts question smelled of it, and this bit seemed like back pedaling a bit

"- I don't need to lynch you today because of the above reasons, I want the info you making it to day two and beyond will provide.
- I am not the one who outted a power role; you did by counter-claiming, or at least seeming to do. I gave the mafia no information at all, you might have done so. Please explain this.
- I agree that outing power roles helps scum."

- Stardust isn't per se counterclaiming, Rezombad makes a point that Droppin hadn't logged in since the game started, it would
be reasonable (although not entirely sporting) to assume you were lying about the whole Daycop thing
-Points 1 and 3 are contradictory, on the one hand you want to know if he has a power role that provides town info (something a cop would do) yet on the other you admit outing tower roles is pro-scum

Wraith: A few of his post aren't pro-town and don't seem like they would come from a town mindset, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in that he is new, but he's leaning scum to me

Freedom: The 'scum slip' reads as a joke (as intended) the bit about analyzing Z based on his interactions in his clan thread seem irrelevant.

Stardust: Feels town, dear god now I sound like I am hitting on him or at the very least implying I date raped him O.O

Imopen2: I need to read

Rcw: I need to read

pedit: Rezombad seems pretty town thus far

[rezombad]

[pedit] Its funny that you thought I caught you lurking when you have the invisble shit on.

[Mcdonalds]

I do O.o

[imopen2]

I didn't come an go. I came, ran a few more laps, showered, and I'm still here

I assumed your vote for LMD was RVS but you should really have a reason attached to it. Why was it a naked vote?

Btw, thank you for pointing out something about Zem that were bothering me but I couldn't seem to put into words. Specifically the fact that the claim was (to me at least) obviously fake and yet he continued to push stardust on his "counter-claim" or w/e that was.

[imopen2]

Was. Fucking phone is killing me today x_x

[imopen2]

I haven't read LMD's post yet but I will after I get home

[zemanjaski]

Rez do you think I'm scum?

[DocLawless]

I think not talking broadly benefits scum. If no one says anything, then we'll never find them. Thoughts?

I don't normally do much talking, so Mafia is challenging me to leave my comfort zone. I am already carefully choosing every word and how to use it in a sentence. I suspect I will spend much of this game watching and learning.

As I see it there are only two likely possibilities concerning Zem's loyalties. A) Zem is town, and trying like hell to figure out who's who by making wild shots to fish out information. If so, town needs him to stick around. But he's setting himself up for a nightkill by being as aggressive about it as he's being. Which he doesn't seem to be worried about. B) Zem is scum and either trying to
throw his scum buddies under the bus or pushing us to lynch a town player. The former seems like a bad scum strategy (unless he's doing it to ingratiate himself to the town), and the latter will out him as soon as we see we've lynched a townie and will likely get him lynched on day 2.

Which all seems to be moot, because suddenly the hot topic became Freedom's faux pas. Which to me seems like exactly that. I think fixating on it is a mistake.


Flaming and personal attacks on one another do not strictly benefit either faction. Unless it's scum prodding town to fight amongst itself.

pedit: I noticed freedom, doclawless, zemanjawski and imopen2 come and go without saying anything after i naked voted lmd.

DtR dropped my login while I was trying to get caught up. Which I'm still
trying to do. You people talk a lot.

[rezombad]

Rez do you think I'm scum?

Why is this post not an answer to the 5 questions I asked you?

[zemanjaski]

Because I'm on my phone, not at my computer. You'll get your answers, in all the detail I can manage in a few hours.

Now answer my question please.

[Wraith223]

@LMD, your analysis is interesting, but tells us nothing about you. It is entirely neutral. Fair for beginning day, but means nothing for us to decide who you are.

Still have not heard from freedom explaining his questionable post in detail. Staring at him...through the oneway glass in my interegation room...waiting.

Will check-in tomarrow around 9-10 AM, have to make dinner and attend to family. Think we will bewatching Mentalist tonight on the DVR.

[InflatablePie]

I don't usually do this, even when catching up, but after playing a few mafia games where I've rolled VT, I've realized I really, really need to improve my town game, so I'm trying something completely different.

that said, welcome to DtR Mafia, where the claims are made up and the points don't matter! that's right, the points matter as much as *insert slightly insulting reference addressed at target DtR poster*!

WALL

---

Z claiming daycop: obvious gambit. Sounds forced though. +1 scumpoint.

Stardust counterclaiming: silly. +1 townpoint.

imopen facepalming @ z: seems suspicious. obvious fakeclaims in RVS happen about 8 out of 10 games. it's not a distraction. distraction from what? what's more important on page 1 than generating discussion? the fact that he even entertains the claim in 25
also feels weird. +1 scumpoint.


z's 27: the middle question about Ham seems weird. It's like he's trying to channel Starbuck. +1 scumpoint.

z "I don't believe [Stardust] is the cop": no shit Sherlock

z's 30: seems forced, I dunno. I'd expect this from me or Kaze or someone, but iirc isn't this one of z's first few games?

Wraith's 32: terrible vote, +1 scumpoint.

Stardust voting Wraith: +1 townpoint

rcw's 35: sounds like scum-rcw. +1 scumpoint.

z's snarky response to rcw: +1 buddypoint.

Wraith OMGUS-voting z: given that he's new, I assume, +1
townpoint. revert all previous scumpoints to townpoints.

z's 44: question to Stardust is BAD. +1 scumpoint. "tomorrow I'll be looking over reactions to see if -" BZZZZZT +1 scumpoint.

z gambiting for reactions but unable to discern that Starbuck was doing the same: ... ok.

Stardust's 50: Are you talking about Dethy? It's a 5p with one sane cop, one cop that gets basward results, one that gets innocents, one that gets guilties, and one scum. Fun setup, easily broken. Not relevant here though.

imopen's 52: not liking some of the answers, but I can understand the reasoning for the vote. +1 nullpoint.

Stardust saying z thinks of her as a target: +1 townpoint, good catch.

z on rcw:
my god that's a lot of questions. all of it went in one ear and out the other.

z on imopen: actually kind of liking his analysis here. +1 townpoint.

z on Wraith: also good. +1 townpoint.

imopen's 76: good analogy.

z's "What do thoughtful questions look like?": please stop talking. you're being proactive. now shut up.

freedom's 83: wow, goodposting. +5 townpoints.

z's @Stardust (85): for some reason I can't explain, this post confuses me. I can't quite put my finger on why.

freedom's "slip": you know, in context given his previous post, I actually can read "real town" as "the more active, pro-town players". does that
make sense to anyone? "real town" as in "really pro-town".

z "maybe it will backfire and I will be a day 1 mislynch; but even then there will be so much info for the townies to use." (87): this caught my eye for a second. speaking of slips... then I reread it and kind of get what he's saying. but I'm noting it here just in case.

Stardust's 89: +5 townpoints.

Freedom wagon: z, Stardust.

GR ignoring freedom in 93: worth a look if freedom does flip scum.

imopen's 92: re:ham lynch, good response. re:questions, good question re:ham, amazing questions re:how to play a PR (nice catch here actually). and a freedom-sheep throws me off. +3 townpoints, +1
scumpoint.

Freedom wagon: z, Stardust, imopen.

Wraith's 102: I have no idea what you're trying to say. +1 scumpoint.

Freedom wagon: z, Stardust, imopen, Wraith

z's 107: for the love of christ, overexplaining the reasoning here is scummy. you even said yourself: "and it isn't uncommon, in my experience as a lawyer, for people to verbalise what they're doing when placed under pressure, even when not as an admission." +2.3 scumpoints.

freedom's 111: I don't see scum making this post. Nope. Town. +100 townpoints. EVERYONE OFF.

z's 118: again proving his point earlier about
people verbalizing when under pressure. z is under pressure since he's been talking so much and people have to respond to him so much. +7 scumpoints, +3 nullpoints, -2 scumpoints, +1 townpoint, +5 pointspoints, -1 townpoint, -1 nullpoint.

rezzy's 122: GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE. Nothing to say about anything that's been happening? +50 scumpoints.

rezzy's MOTHERFUCKING WALLS OF TEXT BATMAN: agreed. stop quoting huge things of text, or spoiler them. at least you're aware you voted LMD without any other content. I still want more content from you. -51 scumpoints.

IN SUMMATION:
1. Zemanjaski - townie moments, probs scum.
2. DocLawless - null
3. freedom - newbtown
4. Hamfactorial - null
5. rcwraspy - null-scummy
6. Inflatable Pie - THERE&#
39;S NO SPACE IN MY NAME, MOD.
7. Stardust - town!
8. imopen2 - null-town
9. wraith223 - part scum, part newb-null.
10. LMD - null
11.G_R - MOD FORGOT TO PUT A SPACE HERE GJ. scum
12. Rezombad - more content pls

[imopen2]

i'm halfway through pie's post and i'm off of freedom. I reread the series of posts and I think he is just really fucking new right now and he phrased that shit badly.

Unvote, Freedom

Vote, Zem

there's no way he isn't scum

[InflatablePie]

I knew I was forgetting something. vote zem

if he dies D1 in his first two games, I'm going to laugh. and kinda feel bad if I'm being bad at reading him and he's actually town.

[InflatablePie]

hey imopen, what was z's claim a distraction from? (post 24, first part of my wall)

I also fucked up my line somewhere referencing post 92 with all the "re:"s, not gonna fix it though.

[InflatablePie]

if z is town I guarantee there's scum on the wagon regardless. Starbuck could possibly be some scum mastermind, in which case we're all fucked anyway. imopen isn't reading as townie as Ragnarok, but I can call him townish for now. it's probably Wraith in that case.

[InflatablePie]

*on the freedom wagon


zemanjaski (3) - wraith223, stardust, imopen2

It's really funny how all three of these players jumped ship to freedom, which due to timing, is the wagon "led" by their scumread. GR even ignores freedom but unvotes Z.

Actually, GR is probably scum here regardless of z's alignment for that one.

[rezombad]

@pie: before I posted my post I remembered that I never rvs'ed and wanted to see if I could get anyone to respond to it before I posted my actual post. But then I got impatient because irl stuff.

@Zemanjewski:

I'll ask the questions here.

[rezombad]

if z is town I guarantee there's scum on the wagon regardless. Starbuck could possibly be some scum mastermind, in which case we're all fucked anyway. imopen isn't reading as townie as Ragnarok, but I can call him townish for now. it's probably Wraith in that case.

If z is town, wraith is scum? What if z is scum?

[InflatablePie]

if Z is scum I'd go after GR next based off current info, could change depending who's on the lynching wagon.

[( G_R )]

Hi Pie. You scum again?

[( G_R )]

@rez: it's not the avatar. Your online personas seem quite similar to me. I guess it's as good a chance as any to learn the difference between your styles.

[imopen2]

if z is town I guarantee there's scum on the wagon regardless. Starbuck could possibly be some scum mastermind, in which case we're all fucked anyway. imopen isn't reading as townie as Ragnarok, but I can call him townish for now. it's probably Wraith in that case.

If z is town, wraith is scum? What if z is scum?

if Z is scum I'd go after GR next based off current info, could change depending who'
s on the lynching wagon.

I don't particularly like these posts. lining up lynches etc. Noted.

[( G_R )]

And nope, not ignoring freedom. I just think he was stupid enough to hand himself in a plater for a lynch. I did something similar in my first game of mafia, only unwillingly. I didn't get lynched that time though.

[( G_R )]

BTW walls of text suck balls. Quit that shit.

[zemanjaski]

Rezombad

---

I wanted to see how people would react and I got four great reactions to start working through tomorrow. Couldn't have worked out better.

Why not start working through them now? i see that you do start later.

What reactions were you hoping to get, exactly?[/quote]

Anything really. I wanted people to start interacting with me. I wasn't really expecting Ham to turn around with "you got me, but you'll not get the rest of our gang!". I didn't get much in the way of scum tells, but I now have town reads on a few posters and that is something. Having never made a gambit before I wasn't sure what to expect beyond people flipping out, and they did, so mission
accomplished

Why did you say your claim was a joke, then continue to push Stardust to try to get him to claim cop?

If your 'gambit' was obviously fake, how are any reactions that you did get valuable? What are you looking for?

I wanted to test Stardust to see what she would say. Admitting to being a cop to counter-claim probably isn't worth it for town (1 unknown cop seems to be worth more than a mafia death to me); but I could be wrong here. If SD had turned around and hard claimed cop, I would be very suspicious of SD - because I don't think such a claim benefits town. SD not making a hard claim, in my estimation, benefits town.

How is a facepalm to your now admittedly fake claim the most town thing possible? Wouldn't the most town thing be to lynch the liar?
aside: I just
finished a game where we didn't lynch the 'lol fakeclaim'ing person and they ended up being scum.

This is a complete misrep. I clearly started in Post 62 "I do like that you immediately acknowledge that its a fake claim. I think that is the most pro-town response possible." Imopen sees the gambit for what it is and acknowledges it then moves on, presumably to scum hunting. That's pro-town. Much more pro-town than posters trying to waste time with analysis like "isn't it zem's second game? He wouldn't do that!" or even worse "he didn't play like this in Ragnarok mafia, surely his first game defines his style forever!.

Why are you bothering to ask ham to deny your accusation when 2 posts prior to his you admit to fake claiming?

Because it feels weird that he didn't respond to it at all.

If you honestly believe someone scumslipped, why not focus on getting that person lynched
rather than trying "to find someone more scummy that we can lynch instead."

Because I don't actually believe tham Freedom is scum now. We put some pressure on him, I felt he gave honest and pro-town feeling responses, especially for a fist game player. I didn't want to die in my first game either, you kinda want to see how far you can go. I sense genuine concern from Freedom about being a mislynch. His response is genuine to me.

Do keep posting Simpon's pics.

Are you going to answer my question now or not?

Lord_McDonald

---

Z: I distrust role fishing by default (for reasons explained in this thread already, by z strangely), his response to stardusts question smelled of it, and this bit seemed like back pedaling a bit

"- I don't need to lynch you today because of the above reasons, I want the info you making it to day two and beyond will provide.
- I am not the one who outted a power role;
you did by counter-claiming, or at least seeming to do. I gave the mafia no information at all, you might have done so. Please explain this.
- I agree that outing power roles helps scum."

- Stardust isn't per se counterclaiming, Rezombad makes a point that Droppin hadn't logged in since the game started, it would be reasonable (although not entirely sporting) to assume you were lying about the whole Daycop thing
-Points 1 and 3 are contradictory, on the one hand you want to know if he has a power role that provides town info (something a cop would do) yet on the other you admit outing tower roles is pro-scum

I thought I was obviously joking, but sure, whatever.

I don't see how points 1 and 3 are contradictory. Point 1 is only a valid statement if SD is seriously counter-claiming (already explained before this post...). Locking SD into a claim or non-claim, instead of her current "unknown" position gives the town information. If
SD is serious about the counter-claim, then we'll have information related to that toMorrow. If SD isn't serious about the counter-claim, then that is info for town too.

Wraith: A few of his post aren't pro-town and don't seem like they would come from a town mindset, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in that he is new, but he's leaning scum to me

Can you expand on this? Please give specific passages or post numbers please, Wraith feels town to me.

@ DocLawless: why should I care if I get nightkilled by scum? If I find someone day 1, trading 1-for-1 is very good for Town. Remember I don't need to survive for town to win, I just need to kill all scum. I agree with you that Freedom just made a crappy joke; but I think the pressure applied and his responses were very useful.

Unvote

I am liking Wraith as town more and more. He has a style very different to what I have read elsewhere, but I
can see Town motivation.

Unvote, Freedom

Vote, Zem

there's no way he isn't scum

Just want to make sure everyone sees this very clearly, you'll want to return to it when I flip Town.

@ Inflatible Pie:

Can you offer any insight to what about post 85 confuses you? I don't have much else to say about your post really, it mostly reads as a recap. As for me explaining my reasoning, I do that in Ragnarok as well. I just want to be transparent and learn; I certainly don't think I have all the answers.

Can you please give a brief summary for you case for SD are town? Merci.

Overall I found your artificial use of points confusing and arbitrary, almost distracting.

I knew I was forgetting something. vote zem

if he dies D1 in his first two games, I'm going to laugh. and kinda feel bad if I'm being bad at reading him and he's actually town.

You're going to feel pretty stupid but that's OK.

[zemanjaski]

Users browsing this forum: DocLawless, freedom, rezombad, zemanjaski and 0 guests

[zemanjaski]

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], zemanjaski and 0 guests

Well Rezombad?

[rezombad]

There is no rezombad here.

[zemanjaski]

I can't get mad when you post such great pics...

Seriously though, it is pretty scummy to deflect like that, please answer the question or go on record as saying you won't answer it.

[rezombad]

I can't get mad when you post such great pics...

Seriously though, it is pretty scummy to deflect like that, please answer the question or go on record as saying you won't answer it.

I'll do what I want.
Every post is a record.
My posts are haikus.

[DocLawless]

@ DocLawless: why should I care if I get nightkilled by scum? If I find someone day 1, trading 1-for-1 is very good for Town. Remember I don't need to survive for town to win, I just need to kill all scum.

Then you're either town, or fakeclaiming town and bussing. Either way, you're either voting for someone who you know is scum because you have inside scum knowledge, or you're voting for someone you are convinced is scum. All I'm 100% sure of about you is that you aren't stupid.

[rezombad]

Z hunts tomorrow.
I'll hunt mafia today.
Knocking down these snakes.

[zemanjaski]

@ Doc. I want to ask some more questions, but can you confirm for me this is your first game? I seem to remember it was, but I could be getting confused (lots of new players in this game).

Thanks.

[DocLawless]

@ Doc. I want to ask some more questions, but can you confirm for me this is your first game? I seem to remember it was, but I could be getting confused (lots of new players in this game).

Thanks.

Fact: first game.