Gruul Zoo

[magicdownunder]

In a meta infested with Jund and Affinity how do Gruul Zoo fair here is a list:

[deck]Gruul Zoo[/deck]

(trying to see if there is any value in buying Stomping Ground)

[Platypus]

I have no idea, honestly.

But since I'm taking some sort of Gruul Zoo deck to a local GP Trial next weekend, I'm just going to repost this from the restricted forum. Maybe I can get some help. My meta will Jund and Affinity as well, among other stuff.
-----------

Ok, so there's a local modern GP trial in a week, and I've basically decided to run a Gruul Zoo deck, despite not having Tarmogoyfs to put in it. But I've been goldfishing (it sucks not having any playtesting buddies) a variant with a slight white splash for Boros Charms/Chained to the Rocks.

[deck]Land (20)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Mountain

Creatures (32)
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Experiment One
4 Dryad Militant
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager



Spells (8)
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Boros Charm
2
Chained to the Rocks



Sideboard (15)
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Shattering Blow
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Molten Rain
1 Boros Charm[/deck]
Why Boros Charm and Chained? Well, Chained basically removes most big creatures for one mana, and I don't have any Path to Exiles. Boros Charm's all three modes are sweet here: 4 damage to the dome as a finisher, Indestrucible creatures survive the inevitable sweeper spells (UW/UWR decks are popular here, so Verdicts and Anger or the Gods will probably be played), and Double Strike might be useful sometimes. Sideboard is geared towards artifact decks, which have been played locally as well. The SB is still being considered, so any suggestions are welcome. Especially against Pod decks and various hatebear decks (Volcanic Fallout?), which also seem to be popular around here.

Anyway, the mana base feels solid enough. But, I will usually be taking 4-5 damage on turn 1-2 from the fetches and shocks. The deck can function well enough on two mana,
so later shocks can usually enter play tapped. But how awkward is it really to be taking 4-5 damage during the first two turns? The deck feels quite solid apart from that though, lots of turn 4 wins.

I've tried this second manabase tonight, because I noticed that I usually fetched for a Stomping Ground first turn if I had to. So I thought that the Gorges would work well. And they do, I seem to take less damage for lands, but it's harder to guarantee getting that white mana. Maybe I should go with 3-3-2 ( Foundry-Garden-Gorge) instead, or 3-2-3? If I had more Arid Mesas I'd drop the Gardens completely, but that ain't going to happen...

[deck]2 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Mountain[/deck]

Or maybe I should forget about the white splash and just go with this:

[deck]Lands (19)
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Stomping Ground
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
2 Forest
3 Mountain

nCreatures (32)
4 Kird Ape
4 Experiment One
4 Goblin Guide
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager

Spells (9)
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
3 Searing Blaze

Sideboard
3 Torpor Orb
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Dismember
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Deglamer
3 Volcanic Fallout[/deck]

It's more consistent colorwise, and easier on the land damage as well. Although I'm not completely sold on those Berserkers...

[magicdownunder]

I'm not a modern master (since I only play BW Tokens and BRW Burn in modern, going to swap to Brobots soon) I don't think Boros Charm (as a protection spell) is good in Modern due to all the Sac and Exile effects, chains is good since it deal with goyf but so does Dismember (which would most likely hurt you less then all the pain lands you have to take to get white).

I don't like Keldon Marauders or Stormblood Berserker in Zoo but that is just me, Dryad Militant is really cool tech vs Snapcaster Mage and Goyf though.

[Platypus]

I'm not a modern master (since I only play BW Tokens and BRW Burn in modern, going to swap to Brobots soon) I don't think Boros Charm (as a protection spell) is good in Modern due to all the Sac and Exile effects, chains is good since it deal with goyf but so does Dismember (which would most likely hurt you less then all the pain lands you have to take to get white).

I'm pretty inexperienced with Modern myself, I've basically done one FNM in February using a BRg Burn deck (went 2-2). So I'm going in pretty much blind in this one. I asked a guy about the local meta and his response was:

Popular: Pod (assuming both types), Affinity, UWR, MonoR.
Somewhat popular: Junk, Jund. BW hatebears, GW hatebears, W hatebears, Boros landfall, Pox (
monoB), RUG Vial.
Fringe: Combo (scapeshift, storm)

He counted me among the MonoR decks, so I'm not sure how many of those are around. We usually get around 20 players, so it's going to be a varied meta.

Your thoughts on Boros Charm is valid, I think. It's hard to test it in a vacuum, but black will be played in several decks which means Liliana of the Veil and other sacrifice effects. So, yeah it's not any good against those. I was thinking of having it as a surprise against mainly Supreme Verdict and Anger of the Gods (or other red sweepers), maybe it's not worth it and it's probably better to play around those anyway.

Chained is good against Wurmcoil Engine as well, but I don't know how many of those there will be. It's basically damage from lands or damage from Dismember if I play either one of them. In my testing I usually took 4-5 damage from the lands during the first two turns. Now, Dismember does 4 damage since I don't have any black sources. So it doesn't look too bad, and it
can always be played with my mana. But here's the thing, does it really only cost 4 damage or is it 4 in addition to those 1-3 damage I've taken during turn 1-2 from fetches and shocks even in a RG deck? So in that light, taking that 4-5 damage in order to get Chained isn't so bad after all.

I don't like Keldon Marauders or Stormblood Berserker in Zoo but that is just me, Dryad Militant is really cool tech vs Snapcaster Mage and Goyf though.

My deal with the Berserker is the situation where you go E1, BTE->Berserker. You want to play BTE->something with 3 power or toughness before the attack so that E1 is a 3/3, but then you don't get bloodthirst for Berserker. I like Dryad Militant for just those reasons you mention. And with BTE I have 8 red one-drops and 8 green one-drops to chain, and that's just sweet.

So, with all this in mind I arrived at this version:

[deck]
Land (19)
4 Stomping Ground
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
n1 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa

Creatures (32)
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Experiment One
4 Dryad Militant
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager

Spells (8)
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Rancor

Sideboard (15)
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Shattering Blow
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Molten Rain
3 Torpor Orb
[/deck]

Between fetches and shocks I have 9 lands that get me a white source. Assuming I want to get rid of a big Goyf, then on the play that's turn 3 at the earliest, that's a 79.4% chance to have a white source available. I can live with that. The Gorges and lower amount of white shocks help keep the land damage down a bit. I'm dropping the Boros Charm and a land. The land drop might be a bad idea The deck need two lands in play by turn 2, and 19 lands mean dropping by 2.8% to 79.6% chance for that. The slots left by the Charms need to be filled, I'm leaning towards Rancor
right now because it pushes damage through and it together with Bolt is another decent BTE chain targets.

Edit: Changed the sideboard. I really want those Torpor Orbs against Pod.

Edit 2: Blarghh...I need to check the chance of drawing a Chained without having any white as well...

[NerdBoyWonder]

Don't forget that Boros Charm Kills liliana

[Mcdonalds]

This deck cares about liliana?

[Platypus]

It spews out creatures very fast, so Lillys +1 don't remove many cards unless you want to sandbag creatures. And lands in excess of 2-3 can be tossed easily. Her -2 ability takes down creatures from turn 3 onwards, worst case scenario they have removed one each turn before that. But you have a lot of them so hopefully you have one left that can attack her. A second Lilly right after that might be bad though. So yeah, I'm not that worried about her.

I'm going to sleeve up the latest version tonight and see how it feels.

Edit: Corrected some errors

[Platypus]

I'm going to keep the maindeck above, although I might drop one Rancor for another Sacred Foundry.

Right, but the sideboard need some tweaking. Any suggestions? I can probably expect a varied meta with the usual modern suspects. Looks like we're getting some out-of-towners joining, so that shakes things up a bit.

[Platypus]

Any last minute thoughts on the sideboard?

[deck]
Land (19)
4 Stomping Ground
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa

Creatures (32)
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Experiment One
4 Dryad Militant
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager

Spells (9)
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Rancor

Sideboard (15)
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Volcanic Fallout
1 Destructive Revelry
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Molten Rain
3 Combust
[/deck]

[Platypus]

Some short notes on Saturday's GPT. Deck as above except for this last minute SB:

[deck]
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Combust
1 Dismember
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Molten Rain
3 Pyroclasm
[/deck]

Only 14 players, so five rounds and top 4.

Round 1: GW Hatebears

Game 1: Got a good curve, we go back and forth for a while. I finish with a GCR Bloodrushed Boar, followed by Bolt. Took him by surprise a bit.
Game 2: Second turn Thalia, followed by Leonin Arbiter, then Ghost Quarter when I was stuck on two lands. So I lost.
Game 3: Second turn Kor Firewalker...then another. I chained one, but he got it back with Ghost Quarter. Really starting to question Chained as a decent PtE replacement. Lost. 1-2

Round 2: Melira Pod

Why did I leave out the Torpor Orbs?
Game 1: Got a decent start and managed to finish him before he combos out.
Game 2: Didn't get a good start, had to mulligan and should have
gone down to 5 really, because my 6 hander was too slow. Lost.
Game 3: He got a bad start, I got a decent. But I couldn't get damage through fast enough. He got out a Spellskite (I hadn't sided in artifact destruction, wanted to be as fast as possible). For some reason I thought he could redirect my GCR (had two in my hand) so I didn't bloodrush as early as possible. Got him down to 1 before he comboed out. Realised right after the match that there were two reasons why he couldn't redirect CGR. Stupid, stupid noob mistake, really inexcusable. 1-2.

Round 3: UB Tron

That mistake in the previous match really got me into tilt mode, since I knew that a 3-2 wouldn't make the top 4.
Game 1: Got an awesome start, one-drop into double BTE. Then I overextended with a Goblin Guide (my fourth and last creature in my hand), because I wanted to just finish him as fast as possible. Then Damnation hit. Why didn't I remember those 4 Damnations he had maindeck (I had seen the list before the tournament)? Again,
stupid mistake. So I got him down a bit in life, but in pretty much topdeck mode, and then Wurmcoil Engine hit the table. Thank you and goodnight!
Game 2: Serious tilt mode in this game. Played badly, couldn't decide on lines of play, stuff like that. Didn't see any of the SB hate cards. Chained a Wurmcoil Engine, which got promptly return by a one-mana Engineered Explosives, together with other one-drop (Chained fails again as a PtE substitute). 0-2

Round 4: Some Grixis Control deck

Don't remember much about this one. Removal and sweepers were played. Won it 2-0.

Round 5: Grixis Cruel Control

Game 1: Couldn't build a good board presence, then Cruel Ultimatum hit and there's no way to win after that.
Game 2-3: Played marvelously around sweepers and won before he reached seven mana. 2-1

Afterthoughts:

- Need to study modern decks more.
- Should have gone with the sideboard in post 4, would've been of more use.
- Chained to the Rocks is a lousy Path to Exile replacement.
- I'm
unsure if this deck can do well without Tarmogoyf? It has very few late game cards.

[BiddingMaster]

[deck]
creatures
4 steppe lynx
4 wild nacatl
4 ghor-clan rampager
4 tarmogoyf
4 knight of the reliquary
4 scavenging ooze
2 fiendslayer paladin

instants
4 path to exile
4 lightning bolt
4 lightning helix

lands
1 forest
1 plains
1 mountain
1 sacred foundry
4 horizon canopy
2 stomping ground
1 temple garden
4 windswept heath
4 wooded foothills
4 arid mesa

sideboard
2 fiendslayer paladin
4 boros charm
1 ancient grudge
2 ethersworn canonist
2 stony silence
1 mutagenic growth
1 wear/tear
2 torpor orb[/deck]

I think this build is pretty sweet. I adapted this version from jacob wilsons list but I felt like he didnt calculate the popularity of mono red burn on modo. The reason im running 61 cards is that i want 23 lands but I also want the second copy of fiendslayer paladin in the mainboard. Its really good against the burn decks and also I thought of other decks its good against as well. It really helps fight any deck running monestary swiftspear or red burn spells as removal like delver decks and the uwr control decks. Against black green decks they cant kill it so we can aggro them to the point where ghor clan attacks with boros charm is lethal or we can just attack and ghor clan them twice for the kill. I have not tried this list out so far but after getting my ass handed to me two games in a row to mono red i decided that I need a boarded answer to it. We just lose to it hands down because of the amount of damage we deal to ourselves. Hope you guys like this list as well. Its really deceptively powerful and I like the 4 boros charms against tron/ascendancy combo to just win games that we would not win otherwise. Also ghor clan+ fiendslayer for two turns should be good enought to close out a game vs burn.

[Valdarith]

I have been testing a small Naya Zoo list on MTGO. I started with Patrick Sullivan's list shown here:



After testing about 20 matches, I made some changes.

1) First to go was Eidolon of the Great Revel. I found this card killing me more often than it was winning me games considering how much fetching I had to do for untapped shocks. The deck has to fetch Stomping Ground and Sacred Foundry back-to-back pretty consistently which put me way in the hole against other aggressive decks. I tried Abbot of Keral Keep but it wasn't good in this list, so I tried Young Pyromancer which was great early and worked marvelously with Atarka's Command, but it was a bit slow and a bad topdeck. I finally tried Ghor-Clan Rampager and was sold after a few matches testing him. One of the problems the deck had in its infancy was attacking through other creatures, and adding Ghor-Clan solved that problem beautifully. It also gives extra upside to Boros Charm (for those of you that remember the blowouts from the Naya deck from ISD-RTR Standard).

2) I felt like the deck needed a couple more one drops for more consistent openings, so I added Rakdos Cacklers. I should probably take one out for a Zurgo Bellstriker, but whatever. I dropped the two copies of Lightning Helix for them because it was pretty bad.

3) Now that my spell count is a little lower, the effectiveness of my Swiftspears is reduced, but I think it's still better than any other one drop I could put there regardless. I have considered Experiment One. It's a bit slower but is basically another Wild Nacatl in almost every case in the early game. It does make me consider going heavier into GW to pick up Loam Lion and just play all the 2/3s.

[deck]
Creatures (23)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Kird Ape
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Rakdos Cackler
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

Spells (17)
2 Mutagenic Growth
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
3 Searing Blaze

Lands (20)
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Arid Mesa
3 Stomping Ground
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Path to Exile
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Deflecting Palm
3 Molten Rain
[/deck]

[BiddingMaster]

what do you guys think about this list.
3 experiment one
4 wild nacatl
4 goblin guide
4 kird ape
4 burning tree-emissary
4 lightning bolt
3 lightning helix
4 ghor-clan rampager
4 atarkas command
2 ajani caller of the pride
4 boros charm

1 copperline gorge
1 razorverge thicket
2 stomping ground
1 sacred foundry
1 temple garden
3 wooded foothills
4 arid mesa
3 windsept heath
2 moutain
1 forest
1 plains

4 eidolon of the great revel
2 shrine of burning rage
4 fiendslayer paladin
3 grim lavamancer
2 ancient grudge

ive been running this list for a while and ive dropped few enough matches at my local gaming store that this is what ill run with until I get more data. One problem ive seen with the deck is multiple bolts/path for the first two turns of the game. A second problem ive seen are the games where you dont have atarkas command to keep your guys power and toughness above a your opponents. With my build if my opponent can just one for one me and grind me out then i lose on the spot so I like the inclusion of ajani. It boosts creatures power and toughness along side being an inevitable threat by itself with the upside of it just being able to kill your opponents who dont have flying blockers out of nowhere with ghor-clan rampager. Burning tree is way to good not to run in my opinion. Its very easy to be able to deal massive amounts of damage on turn three. Also ive dropped an opponent ot 10 on turn 2 by going t1 goblin guide into burning tree+atarkas command to deal three and drop a land for lighting bolt. I have considere also just replacing burning tree with voice of resurgence and I might take out the helixes for searing blaze. I dont think having 12 fetches and 6 shocks is nessesary. There have been many games where ive seen the burn mirror just fetch for basics and shock tapped just to kill me based on the amount of times ive shocked myself. I like having a manabase to where I dont nessesarilly need to bolt myself just to get the mana I need. When i find a live testing testing partner i can hammer out details better but as is im going off of weekly events at the game store local to me. This list is by no means my final fine tuned list and some things in this deck are subject to change based on new information. This is what ive come to as far as what ive seen and where im heading with future iterations of this deck. I would love to hear what you guys think and have to say about it.

[Pedrobear]

Please use synthax. It' not even readable.

[BiddingMaster]

what do you guys think about this list.
3 experiment one
4 wild nacatl
4 goblin guide
4 kird ape
4 burning tree-emissary
4 lightning bolt
3 lightning helix
4 ghor-clan rampager
4 atarkas command
2 ajani caller of the pride
4 boros charm

1 copperline gorge
1 razorverge thicket
2 stomping ground
1 sacred foundry
1 temple garden
3 wooded foothills
4 arid mesa
3 windsept heath
2 moutain
1 forest
1 plains

4 eidolon of the great revel
2 shrine of burning rage
4 fiendslayer paladin
3 grim lavamancer
2 ancient grudge

ive been running this list for a while and ive dropped few enough matches at my local gaming store that this is what ill run with until I get more data.

One problem ive seen with the deck is multiple bolts/path for my fist two attackers before they deal damage. The second problem ive seen are the games where you dont have atarkas command to keep your creatures power and toughness above a your opponents creatures. Its very miserable to trade 1 for 1 in combat. Ajani makes that less of an issue since he is a glorious anthem that's helps give flying and doublesteike for the win.

I have considered just replacing burning tree with voice of resurgence to help keep a creature on board for combo kills or trading favorably with removal and opposing creatures.

I dont think having 12 fetches and 6 shocks is nessesary. There have been many games where ive seen the burn mirror just fetch for basics and tapped shocks just to kill me based on the amount of times ive shocked myself. I like having a less painful mana base..

When i find a live testing testing partner i can hammer out details better but as is im going off of weekly events at the game store local to me. This list is by no means my final fine tuned list and some things in this deck are subject to change based on new information. This is what ive come to as far as what ive seen and where im heading with future iterations of this deck. I would love to hear what you guys think and have to say about it.