[Primer] PyroRed

[zemanjaski]

I can see 2 Skullcrack 1 hammer, I quite like hammer.

[F.I.A]

Yeah, I think Mortars are good idea against Spectre. You don't really want them to hit you and score some card advantage (Something akin Chandra's 0). Having them play out some Rakdos Cackler will be insult to injury.

[chlb]

Hi, I've been lurking this forum for a long time but haven't posted anything until now. Big thanks to zemanjaski for helping me with account issues (my account and IP got banned for some reason right after I registered).

I took the following list to a top 8 finish on Theros Game Day.

[deck]Land:
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
12 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Mutavault

Creature:
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Legion Loyalist
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Tajic, Blade of the Legion

Other:
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard:
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Boros Charm
2 Traitorous Instinct
2 Lyev Decree[/deck]

I was not able to procure the 4th Satyr or 3rd Chandra for the tournament, so I subbed them with the Loyalist and Tajic. I figured Loyalist
would be OK since Master of Waves is a thing now and Tajic just felt like a nice beater at the top end of the curve. I only drew him once during the entire tournament and he won me that game, so there is that. Would have preferred to have Chandra, though. The night before the tournament I heard that the saturday game day was infested with Bx Desecration Demon decks. I thought the Lyev Decree tech Yarplus suggested earlier in this thread could be useful since the BW variant has Fiendslayer Paladins on the sideboard against us and quick hamfisted testing showed some promise for it, so I decided to jam those instead of rocking Peak Eruptions (which proved to be a mistake, as you will find out).

I've been mostly focused on Legacy lately and I haven't played a red deck in standard after Dos Rakis, but seeing zemanjaski's list with the white splash I just said "I want to play that!". Got some test games under my belt the day before with our playgroup, and then it was off to the races on sunday:

nRound 1:
Naya Midrange 0-2
His tactic was clearly to pick on my rustiness while confusing me with his manabase (would you play Reckoner alongside 4 basic forests?). Game one got to a board state where he either draws a Rampager and kills me, or I untap and he dies. He drew the Rampager. Second game is looking good but he gets me with Mortars, then I fail the combat math and am punished with defeat. He had Purphoros and I forgot about the two mana pump ability despite reading the card earlier. I thought I was going to 1 but he was able to pump out that extra damage for exactly lethal. Would have really liked them Peak Eruptions here.
SB: -4 Cackler -3 Satyr -1 Loyalist -4 Zealot +4 Reckoner +2 Chained +2 Mortars +2 Traitorous +2 Decree

Losing the first round feels pretty bad, but I managed to gather myself. Bought some mineral water to stay hydrated, chatted about nonsense with friends to reset my mind and then approached second round with more clear focus.

Round 2:
[b:
247kymkc]Simic Evolve with Hydras 2-1[/b]
He comes out the gates with Experiment One and Gyre Sage, followed by all the hydras of Mistcutter and Kalonian kind that proceed deal approximately one million damage. I figure best plan is to kill his stuff before it evolves out of hand, sideboard accordingly, and proceed to win next to games. In game two Decree makes big monsters look rather silly as they just stand there while Tajic beats face with some elemental tokens. Game three I got him into a Reckoner lock while I flying over with Phoenix.
SB: -4 Cackler -3 Satyr -1 Loyalist -4 Zealot +4 Reckoner +2 Chained +2 Mortars +2 Traitorous +2 Decree

Round 3:
Boros Weenie 2-0
Game one we race and I finish him of with my godly amount of burn. Game two is more interesting him having out a Spear of Heliod and Soldier of the Pantheon against my Reckoners. I slowly
grind with Phoenixes and buy them back with burn. I Magma Jet him for what I believe to be lethal and he scoops them up. As I pick up my cards it dawns to me that we both forgot the life gain ability of Soldier and he should actually be at two instead of zero after my Jet. I call a judge and he says nothing can be done about it anymore. I was probably more bummed about it than my opponent, and apologized him several times and told him that it feels bad to win a match this way. He turned out to be a wise man as he responded with "Don't worry about it, we should be here to enjoy playing the game" (my best attempt to translate what he said into English, although I feel it still doesn't carry the right nuance).
SB: -4 Cackler -3 Satyr -1 Loyalist +4 Reckoner +2 Chained +2 Mortars

Round 4:
Esper Control 2-1
Game one he manages to stabilize at 1 life, I run out of gas and can't get any burn through while he finds his Aetherling. Games two and three I apply pressure until
he has to tap out, then proceed to burn him down. All three games were really tight, and I felt this match was my top performance of this tourment. Friends gathered around for our 3rd game, knowing a loss for me would likely knock me out of top 8. My opponent taps out for a Blood Baron in order to stay alive against my creatures, and I know I have Lightning Strike on top of my deck. I untap, and proceed to reveal it in most miraclous fashion. Such a great feeling.
SB: -3 Shock +1 Hammer +2 Charm

Round 5:
UW Control 0-0-3
We just decide to ID into top 8. We had no idea what each other was playing, but decided to tell each other after agreeing on the draw. I have lots of time before the top 8 starts, so I go buy food for our playgroup. As I return a control mirror is still going on and we eagerly wait for it to end since it will dictate if a 3rd guy from our group can sneak into top 8 (two of us were already locked in). The gods of fate did not smile on him that day, though.

Quarters:
Naya Midrange 0-2
Same guy from round 1. Still confused about his manabase. First game I make a mistake and die to Mortars (fool me twice...), second game my board of tiny creatures stares at two Stormbreath Dragons while I am holding Lyev Decree and a mountain. I show the Decree to the spectators and get some good laughs from the audience. I draw for my turn and it is... Chained to the Rocks. I cannot help but laugh. Would have gladly drawn all the Peak Eruptions here instead of having them on my living room table.
SB: Same as our earlier match

A guy from our group proceeds to win the whole event with GR monsters, so at least some of our testing paid off. As for the PyroRed, I think the deck is good but this time the pilot did not do proper justice to it. Still, I was happy about my result and that
rushing feeling of playing red again.

[zemanjaski]

Well done on your results and welcome to the forums. Let us know how we can help!

[dpaine88]

Yeah, I think Mortars are good idea against Spectre. You don't really want them to hit you and score some card advantage (Something akin Chandra's 0). Having them play out some Rakdos Cackler will be insult to injury.

I'm usually fine or totally fucked if they are in a position to swing with it. Mostly its the 2/3 flyer body thats annoying. I guess theres a rare scenario where they hit 1 of 4 black cards in the deck, but its pretty unlikely.

[dpaine88]

I figured Hammer would be good as they bring in removal, they must be losing some threats.

Played a few games where he 1 for 1'd me but then the natural card advantage of having less lands took over.

Hammer turn 3 into 2 2-drops with haste turn 4 is really solid and no tempo loss at all really.

[dpaine88]

Having 4 Mutavault is really awesome with this deck. FireFist Striker is sooo easy to get online.

So many games it was if you play a creature here, you just lose.

Been thinking the 4th Act of Treason would be good as its nice against the Demon decks and G/R.

Could drop Skullcrack, Flames or Motors. Leaning Skullcrack.

[magicdownunder]

zemanjaski with your most recent decklist how would you board against BW and GW? Surely they don't just fit in the vs. Aggro and vs. Doom Blade Control column.

[dpaine88]

B/W would basically be doom blade control

[Helios]

...and GW is an aggro deck.

[Helios]

No, but you need more than 4 ways to kill Spectre I think, since not having an answer is either going to be a 2-for-1 or a huge loss of time.

Makes sense. Forgot that we weren't talking about Walter White.

[magicdownunder]

I'm aware of that, but I don't believe zemanjaski S.B Plan used against aggro and control would work as well against GW and BW. I was wondering if he had any adjustment to the plan against them (like how he does against Black Devotion).

[Purp]

Going to be playing tonight at TNM. Expecting a lot of esper, bw and mono blue/black. What list do you reccomend I take, PyroBroos or PyroRed?

[Helios]

I'm aware of that, but I don't believe zemanjaski S.B Plan used against aggro and control would work as well against GW and BW. I was wondering if he had any adjustment to the plan against them (like how he does against Black Devotion).

Apply some thought to it then. Assuming you're talking about the deck as listed here viewtopic.php?p=128213#p128213, what cards in the SB are good against GW that aren't coming in as outlined in the aggro plan?

[dpaine88]

Going to be playing tonight at TNM. Expecting a lot of esper, bw and mono blue/black. What list do you reccomend I take, PyroBroos or PyroRed?

I'd go red. Burning-Tree is wicked good and Pyro tokens and Act of Treason are just as good as Chained against Demon.

[InflatablePie]

PyroRed has a better Game 1 against Esper. PyroWhite has a better match against the other three in general. (I think. Only played five matches with Red before switching so I could be wrong.)

[Jurrk]

currently running a Big Red Dragon variant online and having tons of trouble with anything running black. I'm considering a switch to PyroRed, PyroBoros or even Big Boros. I know Ze has stated that PyroRed + BTE is situated nicely in the current online meta but what are the thoughts of PyroBoros / Big Boros in the online meta? I'm trying to decide between adding a 3rd Chandra and Temples / Shocklands / Chained / Charms to my collection or adding 2 additional mutavaults to my existing 2 and just running PyroRed.

[LaZerBurn]

For the current online meta get the Vaults

[Helios]

Agree with dpaine.

PyroRed has a better Game 1 against Esper. PyroWhite has a better match against the other three in general. (I think. Only played five matches with Red before switching so I could be wrong.)

No, the anti-MODO red that Z brewed is much stronger against U/B devotion.

[dpaine88]

I think both variants have a great Esper matchup so I wouldnt really worry about that part of it to be honest.

[Purp]

Unable to get 4 mutavaults tonight since I promised a buddy he could use 2. Guess I'll be going Boros. What is our current list at? Were we able to squeeze in bte/striker?

[Helios]

Boros list in the first post is up-to-date.

[dpaine88]

I just really don't like the idea of BTE and tap lands but its worth a shot to try it...

Would be nice to get a BTE in the primer whenver you have a free minute Helios

[Purp]

Yeah I saw that, just wasn't sure if we are still on the Chained plan or trying to add BTE/Firefist to boros list. Ill post TNM report tonight.

[dpaine88]

Sweet, let us know how you do!

[Helios]

Got it. More content to follow this weekend.

Good luck, Purp!

[zemanjaski]

B/W would basically be doom blade control

Hi and welcome to the forums, great work on your result

Unfortunately, the MonoRed hasn't got a lot for GW, so I do sideboard exactly like I would for the other aggro decks; I don't have more cards available in the 75!

BW does get different treatment. They have small guys, and Act doesn't have as many targets as mono black does, so I usually -2 Lightning Strike, +2 Act and leave it at that. Shock is a really efficient answer to their early game.

[Helios]

You don't bring in Act vs. GW? Seems good with all of their big dumb beaters.

[Khaospawn]

Helios, I just want to say that I read the updates you've made to the Primer and I think you're doing an outstanding fucking job.

Keep it up, redbro. Your work is appreciated.

[dpaine88]

B/W would basically be doom blade control

Hi and welcome to the forums, great work on your result

Unfortunately, the MonoRed hasn't got a lot for GW, so I do sideboard exactly like I would for the other aggro decks; I don't have more cards available in the 75!

BW does get different treatment. They have small guys, and Act doesn't have as many targets as mono black does, so I usually -2 Lightning Strike, +2 Act and leave it at that. Shock is a really efficient answer to their early game.[/
quote]

Are the B/W Decks still running those small guys? I had thought it mostly adopted the Mono Black shell with Obzedat and other good White/ W/B cards

[zemanjaski]

Well, as always, sideboard for what you're actually seeing; these are more ideas than rules.

[Helios]

Z's sideboard guide = the Pirates' Code?

[dpaine88]

I love this deck, wish there was a big tournament this weekend so bad!

[zemanjaski]

I really like the extra angles of FFS and Mutavault, it's surprisingly easy to keep FFS active, despite having so few haste creatures.

Thoughts on BTE vs Ash Zealot for those who have been testing the Mono R version?

[dpaine88]

BTE all the way baby. I think the decision for me would be Young Pyro vs Ash Zealot but this is the PyroRed thread haha

[dpaine88]

There aren't a ton of creatures out right now that make Ash Zealot amazingly good I think. Less green white and red mirror in my area at least.

Think I'd rather have YP since he's so good against Demon.

[dpaine88]

Its nice to have hands that are just unbeatable with BTE.

Like any hand with 1 drop, 2-3 BTE and a FFS or another 1-drop are just unbeatable for the most part.

[Helios]

I've noticed of late that Ash Zealot is largely good in this meta because she has haste, not FS. First strike can get you tricks, but there aren't a ton of x/5s or x/4s running around. I find myself burning x/3s all day. Representing another body / avoiding the body all together with FFS may just be better.

tl;dr- if you aren't playing against GW, the first strike isn't big game.

[Woj]

Absolutely agree, BTE and FFS give the deck a much more sligh feel rather than being more grindy with more burn/removal + ash zealot in earlier versions and Boros

I find myself gold fishing people out with much much much more regularity than with the other versions of the deck

[zemanjaski]

Alright cool. Went 2-2 last night in the DE with one loss to a misclick and the other wasnt due to draws or skill, sometimes you just lose. Went 4-1 in the 2-man queues, but no developments or thoughts to contribute at this stage. Did lose my peak rating sadly.