Kaze's Newbie Mafia (Mafia Win)

[rcwraspy]

You stole my hammer.

@Stardust: Don't you worry about me. I'll answer your question Day 2 since my iPod ate it and I don't feel like re-typing it.

Also, Checkbox is town.

I'd apologize, but apparently that's scummy

[Stardust]

Does that answer your inquiry, Stardust?

Not exactly. The posts I was referring to were the posts in my catch-up, basically from page 3 on. The only post in that time period that you caught was this one:

So, Iso has explained his vote on me (yet he still keeps it there, despite the explanation). imopen2, what exactly did you find so scummy about asking a question in my second post? Did you not like my explanation of it? Why?[/quote:
3vrwd6hd]

Here, I am trying to make sense of what exactly was so scummy about my asking the question in the beginning (trying to figure out of its just inexperience or there is actually some logic that I'm missing). Depending on the answer, it could give reads as to imopen2's true intentions, since he is so closely tied to Iso's early actions.

What really struck me here is that there's no way you're gaining any information from this post. I thought I remembered you saying you agreed that imopen was confirmed town, but searching now I can't find that. What is your read on imopen, currently? Do you think his response to Iso's gambit in the beginning was telling in any way?


@rcwraspy: Okay. Could be true. We'll see how things shake out.

@Iso: Reasoning for a town read on Checkbox would be super helpful in case you don't live through the night. 'Cause I'm just not seeing it.

[Stardust]

I'd apologize, but apparently that's scummy

For the record, apologies in general aren't necessarily scummy. It depends on the reason for the apology and what the apology is for.

[DroppinSuga]

Oh baby, I can't wait for Kaze to post that I'm town. I hope all you n00bs realize that Iso should be the target of tomorrow's lynch now, if he's not taken care of tonight of course.

[Checkbox]

Go back and quote a couple of your own posts. Tell me what information you were hoping to get and how that would have helped you determine someone's alignment. Because the questions I saw looked entirely self-serving.

You were complaining about the questions I was asking, so I addressed the questions I asked.

This is post 132.

So, Iso has explained his vote on me (yet he still keeps it there, despite the explanation). imopen2, what exactly did you find so scummy about asking a question in my second post? Did you not like my explanation of it? Why?

The only other
question I asked after that was in post 142, which I addressed. Did you need me to go and provide an explanation of every post I've made this game?

What really struck me here is that there's no way you're gaining any information from this post. I thought I remembered you saying you agreed that imopen was confirmed town, but searching now I can't find that. What is your read on imopen, currently? Do you think his response to Iso's gambit in the beginning was telling in any way?

What are you talking about? What makes you say that there's no way I'm going to gain information? I've already told you that the question was 50% seeing what I did to tip off the "scum-dar" and 50% being suspicious of Iso's move
in the first place and investigating the pressure being thrown my way by the players in that initial move.

As far as my current imopen read, I'm going to wait until Suga flips and go back and reread everything with that information. His response to Iso's opening gambit is closely tied in with how Iso looks in wake of the flip.

[imopen2]

Oh baby, I can't wait for Kaze to post that I'm town. I hope all you n00bs realize that Iso should be the target of tomorrow's lynch now, if he's not taken care of tonight of course.

How would he be taken care of tonight if he were scum? The matrix 6 setup that kaze said he was using does not have any night kill type role

[Iso]

@Stardust: His question about why I want him to claim + the line of thought that must purvey for him to come to that question is townie. It reminds me of Deitriptychos.

@imopen: He's telling his scumbuddy to kill me. :awesome:

[DroppinSuga]

I didn't know if there was a Serial Killer. My bad.

[Stardust]

The only other question I asked after that was in post 142, which I addressed. Did you need me to go and provide an explanation of every post I've made this game?

Of course not. All I said was that I remembered all your questions being self-serving, but I didn't go back to double check. Apparently there was only one question, which was basically my initial problem with your recent contributions. You haven't been doing anything to further your own reads, only to protect yourself. That leads me to believe that you may not need reads at all.

What really struck me here is that there's no way you're gaining any information from this post. I thought I remembered you saying you agreed that imopen was confirmed town, but searching now I can't find that. What is your read on imopen, currently? Do you think his response to Iso's gambit in the beginning was telling in any way?

What are you talking about? What makes you say that there's no way I'm going to gain information? I've already told you that the question was 50% seeing what I did to tip off the "scum-dar" and 50% being suspicious of Iso's move in the first place and investigating the pressure being thrown my way by the players in that initial move.

As far as my current imopen read, I'm going to wait until Suga flips and go back and
reread everything with that information. His response to Iso's opening gambit is closely tied in with how Iso looks in wake of the flip.

Right. That was tied in with my thought that you had imopen in mind as confirmed town. But you apparently don't, meaning that you may actually have hoped to gain something from that question. So you refuse to answer my question about imopen, but how about this one: If imopen is scum, does that make Iso scum? What about vice-versa?

[Stardust]

@Stardust: His question about why I want him to claim + the line of thought that must purvey for him to come to that question is townie. It reminds me of Deitriptychos.

This one?
|
|
v

I'm still nowhere close to claiming, as no one has given me any real reasoning as to why I should.

Suga voted me because RVS lol.

You (Iso) voted me because you thought I was attacking you with my second post, and it "rubbed you the wrong way". I've since explained what that second post was doing (aka an honest question because I didn't understand the implications of what you were doing, and
it seemed against the spirit of the game), and you haven't pushed any harder on that since.

Imopen2 voted me either because you and him are scumbuddies together both trying to push my wagon over the cliff, or I rubbed him the wrong way as well. I have asked him to explain himself, and he hasn't answered yet.

So, to echo Stardust, why exactly do you want me to claim? :iism:

That question was him echoing me. Detail that townie mindset, please Iso. I don't see how a scummer wouldn't ask that same question, especially since he'd been preoccupied with his own wagon since ever.

[Iso]

I don't WANNA iPod the explanation again.

Okay, so, in Deitriptychos Mafia, Shark pushed some dude to claim range. We ended up lynching someone else that Day. Shark flipped scum the next Day, and I was able to conclude through that, that the person Shark made claim was town. I basically tore Shark a new asshole for doing that (and his Night action). But I examined Checkbox's train of thought and it matched up to what I remember thinking to a relevant degree in that situation.

[Stardust]

So Checkbox is some dude and... you're Shark? I'm not seeing the parallel.

Or are you saying that Suga is Shark? In which case you're really saying that Checkbox is town because Suga wouldn't bus him.

[imopen2]

I know this isn't directed at me but I'm not following you either, iso. I am starting to lean town on checkbox, tho. I probably left my vote there too long but I was still trying to decide if I wanted him to claim or not. We can reevaluate after we see what suga flips

[RedNihilist]

I think I understand some of your thought patterns.
This game is crazy.

[Checkbox]

So Checkbox is some dude and... you're Shark? I'm not seeing the parallel.

Or are you saying that Suga is Shark? In which case you're really saying that Checkbox is town because Suga wouldn't bus him.

Iso/imopen is Shark, cause they wanted to see me claim, although they had no "townie" reason to.

[DroppinSuga]

Where the fuck is Kaze to post my lynch. WTF.

[imopen2]

So Checkbox is some dude and... you're Shark? I'm not seeing the parallel.

Or are you saying that Suga is Shark? In which case you're really saying that Checkbox is town because Suga wouldn't bus him.

Iso/imopen is Shark, cause they wanted to see me claim, although they had no "townie" reason to.

Yea, iso made an analogy where he admitted he was scum. Good job. You caught him.

I wanted you to claim because I thought you were being scummy and you were L-
2. I think you are confused as to what town has reason to do

[Checkbox]

You still haven't explained what you thought was scummy about my behavior. I was also at L-2 partially because our corpse-to-be doesn't like RVS.

[Checkbox]

So Checkbox is some dude and... you're Shark? I'm not seeing the parallel.

Or are you saying that Suga is Shark? In which case you're really saying that Checkbox is town because Suga wouldn't bus him.

Iso/imopen is Shark, cause they wanted to see me claim, although they had no "townie" reason to.

nYea, iso made an analogy where he admitted he was scum. Good job. You caught him.

I wanted you to claim because I thought you were being scummy and you were L-2. I think you are confused as to what town has reason to do

I didn't catch anything; I was just explaining the analogy to Stardust.

If that were the only information, then yes, I would be "confused". When I was first at L-2, I wanted a case before I claimed. I never got a real case, so I never claimed. Why do I have to explain this to you?

[DroppinSuga]

So as soon as I flip town on this lynch, I want my fellow townies to investigate Checky and Iso. I see me a scum team there.

[Checkbox]

Feel like giving a reason or two?

[DroppinSuga]

No reasons. My fellow townies will understand when my town-ness is proven.

[TubeHunter]

I'd be down for some kind of night investigation by a cop if there is one on ISo this night if Suva flips town. If not then I'd advise them to check out checkbox.

[Iso]

So Checkbox is some dude and... you're Shark? I'm not seeing the parallel.

Or are you saying that Suga is Shark? In which case you're really saying that Checkbox is town because Suga wouldn't bus him.

No, no. I'm saying that I'm Shark-esque and that Checkbox is me/the dude that Shark put into claim range. Except I'm not scum, being the key difference.

I do have a town reason for wanting Checkbox to claim, but the fact that his snap reaction was, "Woah, this is sketchy, wtf?" is townie.

And I doubt I'll be getting Copped toNight.

[Iso]

(And if I get Tracked, I'm going to be peeved.)

[Kazekirimaru]

Where the fuck is Kaze to post my lynch. WTF.

Sorry. I was busy with your mother. <3

DO NOT POST. Mod scene forthcoming.

[Kazekirimaru]

Vote Count 1.04

DroppinSuga: Checkbox, TubeHunter, RedNihilist, Stardust, rcwraspy(LYNCH!)
Checkbox: imopen2, DroppinSuga

Not voting: Clownfish, Iso

With 9 alive it took 5 to lynch.


And so, the town converges upon their first victim. DroppinSuga fights at first, then accepts his fate.

"You'll all be sorry when you realize your mistakes! Keep an eye on Checkbox and Iso! Avenge me!"

A rope, a tree, a dead man swinging.

The town investigates the body. Every inch. I'm sure if he were alive, Suga would have enjoyed it. Alas, search as they did, they found no evidence of mafia.

It appears you guys fucked up.[/i:
3fql3wp7]


As of post #199, DroppinSuga has been LYNCHED! He was a Vanilla Townie

It is now Night 1. Do not post. All night actions must be submitted to me by October 4, 2013 12:00A.M. PST Actions not submitted shall be forfeit.

[Kazekirimaru]

And so the town reconvenienes after a night's rest. Though while some slept, others had other priorities...

You come into the town square, the tree where DroppinSuga once hung still ominously stands in the center of the cityscape. Memories of yesterday. Painful memories.

You await for the rest to arrive.

three...four...five...six...seven...

...

...eight. Same as yesterday

Good. Now you can get to work.


Nobody died Night 1


Vote Count 2.00
Not voting: imopen2, Checkbox, Iso, Stardust, TubeHunter, Clownfish, rcwraspy, RedNihilist

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is October 18, 2013 12:00A.M. PST

Day 2 Start!

[imopen2]

So there are either a doctor, 2 goons, and 5 vanillas alive

or

a doctor, a cop, a roleblocker, a goon, and 4 vanillas alive

Also, rcw would be a fine lynch for Day 2, too. I will explain that on Day 2 if I am alive (I expect to be, because it would be a dick move for the scum to kill off the person teaching everyone) but if for some inexplicable reason I am found dead I expect Stardust to carry the torch.

i'd like you to explain this now, iso. in light of suga's flip, please.

[rcwraspy]

wow, very cool!

I'm heading out of town again this weekend. I'm bringing the laptop for study purposes, so will be checking in but posting lightly. Bed time now, though

[rcwraspy]

So there are either a doctor, 2 goons, and 5 vanillas alive

or

a doctor, a cop, a roleblocker, a goon, and 4 vanillas alive

Have to admit, the role stuff still confuses me. I read the link Kaze posted in the opener, but how do you come by these conclusions?

[imopen2]

well kaze said he created the roles based on the matrix 6 game set-up which basically has 6 possible sets of 3 roles that are automatically included as the power roles. they either have 2 special town roles and 1 mafia, or 1 mafia, 1 town, and 1 vanilla. then you add in enough vanilla townies till you reach 9 players (since suga was a V townie i already excluded him from my count). since no one died last night, and we can safely assume that the mafia didn't just choose not to kill anyone, that means there is a town doctor who protected the NK target. the only sets of 3 roles that include the doctor in matrix 6 are the ones i listed above. someone correct me if i'm misreading the chart

[Iso]

No, we have a Jailer. :nod:

[Iso]

Also, when Suga flipped town, I literally said out loud, "No fucking way."

[RedNihilist]

Well, good morning Gents.

[Iso]

So, my issues with redcoloredwizard:

From what I can tell Iso's really coming out of the gates quickly here. I honestly have no idea what to make of that, but I also don't quite understand the vote for Checkbox. Could it be because of familiarity from previous games?

This post completely rubs me the wrong way. It tries really hard to keep options open. Basically, rcw could say, upon explanation, "Oh, well, then I'll vote [Iso or Checkbox]!" depending on reception to my start, as well as how people reacted to my Checkbox rationale.

Ah, right. I only explained why it's not scummy, not why it's townie. Maybe you can tell me. What motivation would townIso have for posting something like that?

Well, if someone comes galloping in agreeing but using the wrong color, that would sure be a big sign. I guess the next logical thing to look at from there is why checkbox seemed to take exception to it.

But I know where TubeHunter is coming from. I feel like we need some more discourse in here to get the clues flowing.

Too agreeable, too uninvested in doing, well, anything.

That said, I didn't like Stardust's post where he quoted 2 of Suga's posts and bolded parts (bottom of page 2). That seemed like splitting hairs. I've liked his other posts re: Suga, but that one struck me as odd.

*Rolls up a newspaper and baps you on the nose.*

I hope that's not you telling me that you suspect Stardust as Suga's scumbuddy. Can you clarify?

I simply meant that I didn't understand the distinction he was trying to make. We're dissecting Suga's posts and at least most of us are leaning scum on Suga, but pointing to those 2 posts and calling them contradictory didn't seem like a strong indictment. Could it be busing? I suppose maybe, if I understand the concept, but I think you (Iso) and Stardust have both put yourselves in the "
likely town" camp so far - at least through Day 1.

More keeping options open.

Hi all,

I'm back. A lot of law school reading to do today, but I'll be posting on and off. Just caught up on the reading.

@ Iso. From what I can tell you've got some strong reads going. So far I understand where you're coming from on Suga and RedNihilist. Thanks for the explanation on contradictory posts with no backup regarding why - helpful to use along with Stardust's search by poster in a thread to hunt with.

@ TubeHunter. you're new here too, right? I like your insights so far as well.

I'm ready to lynch Suga whenever the rest of you are. From there, I'm going to want to hear more from RedNihilist, Checkbox, and Clownfish. I didn't understand Iso's first post for a bit either, so Checkbox's first
post isn't completely incriminating from what I can tell, but it sure does lean in that direction.

Throwing suspicion without explanation, etc.

I'm sorry for the lack of content, but I don't know how to read into things the way you guys do quite yet and I've been on airplanes today.

rcwraspy feels too apologetic here. Town tend to do the best they can regardless of how much they suck. Scum tend to have a guilty conscience and apologize to compensate for their "bad"
reads or lack of content.

That said, I didn't like Stardust's post where he quoted 2 of Suga's posts and bolded parts (bottom of page 2). That seemed like splitting hairs. I've liked his other posts re: Suga, but that one struck me as odd.

*Rolls up a newspaper and baps you on the nose.*

I hope that's not you telling me that you suspect Stardust as Suga's scumbuddy. Can you clarify?

I simply meant that I didn't understand the distinction he was trying to make. We're dissecting Suga's
posts and at least most of us are leaning scum on Suga, but pointing to those 2 posts and calling them contradictory didn't seem like a strong indictment. Could it be busing? I suppose maybe, if I understand the concept, but I think you (Iso) and Stardust have both put yourselves in the "likely town" camp so far - at least through Day 1.

I'm not sure how to respond to this, but basically, if you think my entire case on Suga is wrapped up in one contradiction, you're wrong. You know you're wrong since you said yourself that you liked the rest of my posts on the matter. So why bring it up? I'll have to revisit this once we see Suga's flip, I think. Feels like a chainsaw*.

*Chainsaw defense is the act of cutting someone down to make their target look better. In this case, rcwraspy may be throwing suspicion at me in order to make my case on his scum buddy (Suga) look worse.

I'd like to address these things.

We all know this is a newbie game. I'm
one of the newbies. I was also traveling when I did my posting on Friday, and didn't have very much time. The fact also remains that, as my first mafia game, I'm still not used to reading into every last word that someone says the way that Iso and Stardust have demonstrated. Personality wise I tend to take things at face value and this is a shift for me. I started seeing walls of text and thought I had to do likewise, but knew I wasn't in a position to at the time. So I apologized. I don't feel guilty about it, I just wanted to inform people of my traveling. There was simply unfortunate timing between the start of the game and my itinerary.

Regarding the "chainsaw." I hadn't heard of that term before, but I don't agree with it anyway. I've stated multiple times that I'm on board with lynching Suga. So the argument that I'm defending him because he's my scum buddy doesn't make sense when I'm lynching him anyway. Let alone the fact that it's simply not true.


VOTE: DroppinSuga

This feels off. It's like he feels pressured to place his vote on Suga to "seem townie". And it's the hammer.

You stole my hammer.

@Stardust: Don't you worry about me. I'll answer your question Day 2 since my iPod ate it and I don't feel like re-typing it.

Also, Checkbox is town.

I'd apologize, but apparently that's scummy [/quote:
21ycabwa]

This is just .

-

Upon review, I feel like I'm explaining myself terribly. I think I need to brush up on my mindset theory.

Does anyone have any questions about the case?

-

@RedNihilist: Hi! Tell us things.

[RedNihilist]

Well... "things"?
LoL.

[Checkbox]

TubeHunter is my target for today after rereading day 1. Case coming in a bit.

[Stardust]

This feels off. It's like he feels pressured to place his vote on Suga to "seem townie". And it's the hammer.

I 100% agree that it felt like he was pressured here. I took that to mean that Suga was his buddy. But what does that mean when Suga flipped town? He was probably the easiest mislynch target I've ever seen - everyone was sure he was scum. Why would scum need to be pressured into making that vote?

I'm much more inclined to go after RedNihilist today for his Suga wagon jump and his later refusal to engage with a simple question. Add "waiting to see what happens before committing to anything Day 2" to the list as well. I don't have time today, but I'll probably throw down a proper case come Monday.

[quote="Iso&
quot;]No, we have a Jailer. :nod:[/quote]
I know we're dealing with newbies here, but you still shouldn't say things like this. You know better.

[Stardust]

No, we have a Jailer. :nod:

Wait. Are you fishing here?