Dies to Removal

[deck=MDU's Atarka Sligh]Lands 20
10 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Mana Confluence
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Forest

Creatures 11
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Zurgo Bellstriker

Spells 29
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Atarka's Command
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Dragon Fodder
3 Wild Slash
2 Searing Blood

Sideboard 15
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Satyr Firedancer
2 Roast
2 Searing Blood
2 Arc lightning
1 Destructive Revelry[/deck]

Origin's finally came out online and here is the list I decided to run with day one, I went 3-0 and 3-0 so far beating Sidisi and Abzan control plus 4 other random aggro decks (Wb, Br, R and Rb). The deck is still very powerful with an excellent early game follow by powerful burn spells for extra reach (the creatures at that point act as a buffer to by time for burns).

Notes:
Exquisite Firecraft + Stoke the Flames is a beating
Tokens + Atarka's Command or Foundry Street Denizen is a beating
Monastery Swiftspear + non-creature spells is a beating

Thanks for the list, I love it. Gonna start testing with this for StarCity Regionals.

To get a little discussion going, have you considered any Lightning Berserker? Sometimes having multiple Zurgo did hurt me when running 3.

Also, is Arc Lightning still the best card over Scouring Sands or Circle of Flame or Twin Bolt?

Are you gonna do any videos or streams? That would be awesome. I miss those.

To get a little discussion going, have you considered any Lightning Berserker? Sometimes having multiple Zurgo did hurt me when running 3.

I prefer Lightning Berserker in every MU except when I'm up against apposing tokens (which is really common online so I'm with the Zurgo, I would prefer to run the 21nd land and two Berserkers over the Zurgo's but its a meta call).

Also, is Arc Lightning still the best card over Scouring Sands or Circle of Flame or Twin Bolt?

I dislike Scouring Sands since Hall of Triumph ruins it, same issue with Circle of Flame so I'll go with either Twin Bolt, Arc or Hornet Nest

I think you'll find the MUs where your bringing in Arc are the MUs where you take on the control role so the 1 extra mana over Twin isn't a big deal.

Hornets Nest on the other hand is really powerful against G, R and W decks (it gives you the best chance against the annoying UW Heroic decks by buying time, this is a very unfavorable MU) but its bad vs removal based list. Roasting your own HN for 5 beaters vs Gr Devotion is really fun .

Are you gonna do any videos or streams? That would be awesome. I miss those.

I'll be doing those for ORI in two weeks (I need to upload the rest of the old standard first).

Thanks for the Zurgo insight. I rarely play against red aggro in my meta, mostly green decks n control. Is your 21st land just a mountain?


Wow Hornet Nest is clever man, never would have thought of it for this deck but it's perfect.

Maybe Hornet Nest over Firedancer?

I can't claim credit for HN since I stole the idea from Jason Kohnert's SCG Standard Open Chicago list.

The 21nd land would be mountain, if you are going to run HN you'll need to rework the SB replacing - that said replacing dancers definitely seems correct.

I've never been a fan of dancers, even way back in the days of boros burn. They just die to literally everything, and theres nothing worse than dying to a creature after you threw burn at their dome and they removed the satyr in response. Nest is fun but is the mana good enough to cast it in the deck?

It only cost [mana]2G[/mana] so it works out well since the key part is the single [mana]G[/mana] requirement, I also agree that dancer are quite horrible in many MUs - I'm just running them for Gr Devotion but I expect a small rise in W based midrange/aggro list so they help in that as well (I wouldn't bring them in vs Junk or R).

It does however increase the 3cc spells in the 75 which makes that 21nd land all the more important - a 2nd temple over the 11th mountain could help with the added green spells.

Dancer used to be amazing back in the day with a 24 land deck and Boros Charm which made a great turn 4 play. It was also very good against Mono Blue devotion without removal but that's not relevant.

Not sure if it's as good in this deck where you may not hit 4 as fast and there isn't a player-only burn spell to take advantage of.

Nest is certainly wayyyy better in the aggro mirror as they can't just burn it and move on.

Dancer is probably better than Nest against Devo, since you need to be attacking their mana. Nest is still plenty fine though in the matchup.

I 3-1 the DE losing against Junk Control running 4x Nyx-Fleece Ram (it was still rather close), I did get to beat Gr Devotion again which strongly boosted my confidence in the MU (also beat that annoying Gb deck which is like Gr Devotion except it has whip).

I'll be readjusting my MD and SB alittle to include Hornet Nest (dancer is much to narrow), Rabble Master, Become Immense and maybe Hall of Triumph.

Really interested too see what you come up with.

Rabble does seem at his best in a deck full of burn.

Was thinking with Nest vs Heroic,, we do need to consider they run 4 Aqueous form which kinda hoses that plan.

Become Immense was always awesome when I was playing the Pro Tour atarka red deck, steals some games with a token sliding through blockers.

Ugh my phone keyboard does Crazy things when editing on here for some reason so sorry to double post.

I've heard many people saying Outburst isn't that great right now. Rabble might just be better in that 3 drop spot otherwise too much action at 3 mana.

Ugh my phone keyboard does Crazy things when editing on here for some reason so sorry to double post.

I've heard many people saying Outburst isn't that great right now. Rabble might just be better in that 3 drop spot otherwise too much action at 3 mana.

I still think they're good but I would prefer to have more haste creatures (mainly because people are packing 3x Languish MD ) - I plan on running 4x Rabble and 2x Outburst (we still need high body counts to allow for Command and Immense Blow outs).

In regards with Heroic - while its true Form hoses the plan, they'll need to draw it first and by running cards which don't pump or protect creatures provides us we more chance to kill them with burns (if all else fails you can up the Rev count if Heroic has a huge showing).

I think adding the extra 3 drops def warrants the 21st land, depending on what 2 cards you are cutting for them so that works well to include the Nest in the board.

The lightning bezerker are also great follow ups to languish. I will certainly be running them in my Abzan / Control heavy meta.

Rabble is probably just too powerful not to run especially in a deck with earlier removal targets and plenty of burn to clear the way.

Really glad to be discussing burn with you again. Your videos etc really helped me play the burn deck optimally last season to really good results and made a lot of money in the process.

Well done MDU, good to get some MTGO testing results in.

It seems Searing Blood is very well positioned in the current meta, with even the control decks running targets such as Hangarback Walker and Satyr Wayfinder. Should we up the count by one, maybe at the expense of the fourth outburst?

I think there's definitely some tension between Satyr Firedancer and Roast in the SB and Roast should get the nod for being more versatile.

Really glad to be discussing burn with you again.

This is not a burn deck, this is atarka red from the past two seasons that cut a 1 drop and become immense and added a burn spell. Control is on the rise, and this deck gets pushed out due to the tokens, then a bigger red deck comes along. Cycle continues.

I see your point but the deck has 21 burn spells.

I've been thinking about the deck and wondering if you want another 1 or 2 one-drop creatures, either Lightning Berserker or Zurgo - whichever you are not running.

Both just seem so good, it would be a shame not to run one of them.

That said, there certainly is a point of diminishing returns with 1 drops but opening hands with 3 of them just feel so good.

@Purp: did you really have trouble beating control with Atarka Sligh? I always figured control to be a very good MU esp. now with more burn spells like Exquisite Firecraft.

@dpaine88: Cheers, I'm still crunching numbers - I was tempted into trying Pile Driver and Rabble Master today with the other 8 1-drops so that everything becomes a must kill target, but I think that type of build is better for Mono-Red since I feel that Atarka Sligh is better for switching into the burn gameplan since it can prevent lifegain making burn more viable.

Here is a link for Jason Kohnert's list (link) its more creature focus which I'm not really comfortable with vs Junk Midrange/Control and its ilk.

I've been thinking about the deck and wondering if you want another 1 or 2 one-drop creatures, either Lightning Berserker or Zurgo - whichever you are not running.

Both just seem so good, it would be a shame not to run one of them.

That said, there certainly is a point of diminishing returns with 1 drops but opening hands with 3 of them just feel so good.

I thought about something similar in Modern - with people pushing for the inclusion WN for the 12 1-drops, I opted against it since the decks where the early 1-drops would be most helpful against (In standard Control or Tempo decks) your already decent against. I would much rather have more burn which is decent vs my good MUs and at least does something against hard MUs (in standard that would be Gr Devo or Junk) when it passes T3.

Word I got a big testing day Wednesday and can hopefully give my own tested input.

Hoping to get some games in vs Abzan Rally Company as it feels like it could be real popular coming up. I think we can be fast enough to beat them but they do play a lot of early creatures.. Like a lot. Searing Blood looking reaaaal good now with control running creatures too.

Played in the Standard Super Sunday series event today at GP Dallas. Went 7-0-1, the only undefeated deck from the swiss.

I put this together around 3:00am, taking various ideas from other red decks that day 2'ed the Open last weekend, and that one Japanese tournament. Also read a little around here. Had zero playtesting before I started round 1.

List:

[deck]
Creatures 13
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Pia and Kirin Nalaar

Spells 26
3 Dragon Fodder
1 Hordeling Outburst
3 Wild Slash
2 Searing Blood
4 Lightning Strike
4 Atarka's Command
4 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Stoke the Flames
1 Roast
1 Become Immense

Lands 21
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Mana Confluence
2 Temple of Abandon
11 Mountain
1 Forest

Sideboard 15
3 Roast
3 Satyr Firedancer
3 Outpost Siege
2 Searing Blood
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Hornet Nest
1 Arc Lightning
[/deck]

Opponents:
GB Elves, 2-1.
Abzan Ascendancy Tokens, 2-0. Decks bad.
Jeskai Aggro, 2-1.
GR Devotion, 2-1.
Abzan Control, 2-0.
Abzan Control, 2-1.
Abzan Control, 2-0
GR Devotion. ID'ed to guarantee my spot in top 4 for the top 8 draft. Played some test games, and won 2-0.


Abbot is the fucking truth, and Firedancer wrecks GR Devotion. I feel like this was the most powerful deck in the room, and will be playing it next weekend at states/regionals or whatever the hell they call it now. Need to test some more, and possibly make some minor changes, but overall, I loved it.

How did the mana feel? Did you ever want to go up to a 4th confluence and drop a temple or anything?

Well Done!!

I really like the Pia and Kiran Nalaar, I'm not sure how I feel about Abbot of Keral Keep but you can get them for >1 tickets so I may go pick up a playset (I watch someone rip Stoke the Flames with Abbot while the opp. was on 4 only to be force to exile it while he proceeded to lose in the next two turns, I'm guessing the horror stories are rare? or you wait till you hit 5 lands).

EDIT: I'm going to virtually sleeve this up for tomorrow, it looks solid and I really need to get some hands on experience on Abbot (he just seems so risky).

If you think of exiling from the top as them same as exiling from the bottom, you'll realize that aside from scry interactions, it's zero use fretting about what you could miss on.

And you'll get much more rewards than sad stories like this with this kind of effect. Same for Outpost Siege.
(I once slammed a Siege on T4 in limited to only reveal Dragonlord Kolaghan on T5, which was exactly my only way out of the game but eh, it's the game.)

Well I built your deck after I found out that foil Abbot were selling for less then 1 ticket

I went 3-0 with it (well more like 2-0 and my third opp. never showed), I no longer hate Abbot but I still really don't understand the hype. So far I haven't experience any horror stories with him when it comes with exile but I didn't get anything good either, that said what I do like about Abbot is how well he trades with other cards .

- - - -

I also jumped into a DE and 4-0éd running:

[deck=MDU's Atarka Sligh]Lands 21
1 Forest
2 Temple of Abandon
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Mana Confluence
10 Mountain

Creatures 12
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Rabblemaster

Support 7
1 Become Immense
2 Hordeling Outburst
4 Dragon Fodder

Burn 20
4 Lightning Strike
4 Atarka's Command
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames

SIdeboard 15
1 Destructive Revelry
2 Arc Lightning
2 Rending Volley
2 Roast
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Hornet Nest[/deck]

MDU, I have played close to 150 games with Abbot now, and the reward is often worth the risk. I have no issues running him out on t2 just to setup a big t3 atarks command attack, Granted I am playing a less token oriented build and one with more 1-drops. If you play him on t5, you can cast stoke off the reveal thanks to convoke, and flipping a Firecraft is literally like winning the lottery.

Jasper nice job on the finish let's talk about some of the cards.

How was rabble master for you?

Was the become immense necessary? Did it ever win you games you had no business winning?

Mana base - too many mana confluences?

I take back what I said about firedancers before, they're insane vs all the coco decks running around right now.

The deck feels a lot worse without wild slash, did you not run into much of the mirror MDU?

How did the mana feel? Did you ever want to go up to a 4th confluence and drop a temple or anything?

Mana felt fine, and the Temples were actually pretty nice. I intended to run 3 Temples and 2 Confluence the morning of the event actually, but didn't have enough time to hit a vendor, slept in late.

Well Done!!

I really like the Pia and Kiran Nalaar, I'm not sure how I feel about Abbot of Keral Keep but you can get them for >1 tickets so I may go pick up a playset (I watch someone rip Stoke the Flames with Abbot while the opp. was on 4 only to be force to exile it while he proceeded to lose in the next two turns, I'm guessing the horror stories are rare? or you wait till you hit 5 lands).

EDIT: I'm going to virtually sleeve this up for tomorrow, it looks solid and I really need to get some hands on experience on Abbot (he just seems so risky).

Don't have any Abbot horror stories myself. Like others have said, just don't even worry about what card you're going to flip. Sometimes it draws you a card, sometimes it doesn't. I had to play them on turn 2 pretty often to apply pressure, and they do a VERY good job at trading up, or straight punking other creatures in combat.

[quote="magicdownunder » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:00 am"

Well I built your deck after I found out that foil Abbot were selling for less then 1 ticket

I went 3-0 with it (well more like 2-0 and my third opp. never showed), I no longer hate Abbot but I still really don't understand the hype. So far I haven't experience any horror stories with him when it comes with exile but I didn't get anything good either, that said what I do like about Abbot is how well he trades with other cards .

- - - -
[/quote]

Glad to hear it.

MDU, I have played close to 150 games with Abbot now, and the reward is often worth the risk. I have no issues running him out on t2 just to setup a big t3 atarks command attack, Granted I am playing a less token oriented build and one with more 1-drops. If you play him on t5, you can cast stoke off the reveal thanks to convoke, and flipping a Firecraft is literally like winning the lottery.

Jasper nice job on the finish let's talk about some of the cards.

How was rabble master for you?

Was the become immense necessary? Did it ever win you games you had no business winning?

Mana base - too many mana confluences?

Rabblemaster is still great vs Abzan Control, and Abzan Control is still a huge deck in the format. I also leave them in vs GR Devotion, which may be incorrect, but I haven't had it turn out badly yet.

Opp board state: 1 mana up, 2 Coursers, 1 Caryatid.

My board state: 1 Swiftspear, 1 Rabblemaster, 1 Satyr Firedancer.

I swing in with Swiftspear, Rabble, and 1 token. He blocks Rabble and Goblin Token. I searing Blood the Courser that block the Rabble, triggers and such, direct the 3 from Firedancer into the other Courser. Sweet sweet value.

Become Immense was only in my hand once, but was never cast. I could have played it for lethal on a Thopter token, but I was playing around Murderous cut. Ended up just stoking him when he was at 4 with 1 black mana up.

Mana Base - Perhaps. I'm going to test 1 more temple and 1 less confluence, since I intended it to be that way in the beginning. I didn't have any issues however. Multiple Temples are actually kind of nice. I keep a Hornet Token visible on top of the rest of my tokens, and when I play a Temple on 1, it really throws people for a loop when the follow up play next turn is a little red dude.

Good job Jasper!!! You the man.

I love how the deck plays the best red 1-drop, 2-drop,3-drop and 4-drop and has a pretty high overall card quality.

Obviously you won a lot with only 4 1-drops in the deck, are they not as big of a deal as I originally thought?

EDIT: Wow just destroyed my friend, longtime junk aggro player 6-0 in games.


Definitly running some version of these decks for Regionals. Both feel very strong but not super impressed by Foundry Street so far.

The deck feels a lot worse without wild slash, did you not run into much of the mirror MDU?

I have recorded the Mono-R Sligh MU 3 times, Rb Dragons MU Twice I havn't lost against them at all (I havn't played the Mirror but I think slash is more important against Mono-R Sligh anyways).

Wild Slash is a must if your going to run Abbot or Pile Driver, otherwise I don't think its that important to clear the board.

So yeah, this deck is dirty as fuck.

I'm skeptical that Jasper built it right on the first pass, but that only serves to show that it's the truth.

The fact that we now have two prowess guys is pushing me to believe that atarka red may be the superior build if only because of how nuts command is with prowess guys and the deck now has eight.

Definitly running some version of these decks for Regionals. Both feel very strong but not super impressed by Foundry Street so far.

Foundry Street Denizen is kinda like a poor mans version of Monastery Swiftspear and Abbot of Keral Keep except he banks on you playing creatures or tokens (or having master in play). He is very punishing against builds which do nothing in the earlier turns (or he just trades).

Anyhow I took down another 8M/SE going 3-0, I'm beginning to think that I need more Destructive Revelry for heroic, control and whip nonsense.

My highlight was dealing 13 damage in one turn with Monastery Swiftspear, Become Immense and Stoke the Flames

- - - - - -

I was talking with dauntless and he mention running a more burn focused list with 4x Abbot, 4x Slash and 4x Blood MD I think he could be onto something with the current metagame.

Maybe Something like:

[deck=MDU's Rg Burn]Lands 22
10 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Temple of Abandon
3 Mana Confluence
1 Forest

Creatures 12
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
4 Goblin Rabblemaster

Spells 26
4 Wild Slash
4 Searing Blood
4 Lightning Strike
4 Atarka's Command
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Roast[/deck]

Yeah MDU, I just had a lot of hands(limited testing) where was my only creature in opening 7 and or maybe 2 creatures but even then he just wasn't that good. Then on any turn past turn 1 he was pretty bad in general. He definitly contributes to the nuttier draws of the deck, but is he the best for consistency?


RE: Wild Slash- not sure if you guys have SCG Prem or follow Tom Ross but he just had an article about "Breaking Serve" and one his favorite cards for doing it is Wild Slash. It trades up a lot and lets you get a little ahead even on the draw. Also combos nicely on turn 3 with any of the 2-drop burns.

I would also argue that aside from Mono R it is very good in keeping up with Devotion as turn1 Elf on the play can lead to crazy stuff and being able to Slash it right away is nice.

I agree on Searing Blood, it has been reallllly good. With Control running Hangerback and thopters an the midrange decks running Satyr Wayfinder, and the new Abzan Rally deck runs a ton of targets.

Really cant see where Searing Blood is bad.


Pia and Kiran Nilar into Command was so sweet.

MDU 22 lands on the latest list without any 4 drops?

My list from the old thread. Been testing fine.

[deck]
4 swiftspear
3 lightning berserker
2 zurgo
4 abbot
2 flamewake

2 dragon fodder

4 stoke
4 firecraft
4 command
4 lightning strike
3 searing blood
3 wild slash

12 mountain
4 foothills
2 mana confluence
2 temple
1 forst
[/deck]

Command is the nuts, but I really dislike taking the turn off to cast an outburst vs abzan and ub control.

Do you guys really like rabble master? Post board abzan has infinite ways to kill them. It's possible the flamewakes could just be two rabbles.

MDU 22 lands on the latest list without any 4 drops?

Abbot is my 4 Drop... or 3 drop or 5 drop - that said in a creature light build having 4 lands for Stoke is relevant as well please note I haven't tested that list at all yet, not running cheap token producers like fodder could be very wrong in a format with lots of sac effects.

Pia and Kiran Nalaar can go over Roast slot though, Command and the parents is quite brutal

Yeah MDU, I just had a lot of hands(limited testing) where was my only creature in opening 7 and or maybe 2 creatures but even then he just wasn't that good. Then on any turn past turn 1 he was pretty bad in general. He definitly contributes to the nuttier draws of the deck, but is he the best for consistency?

That is my view on Abbot

I find creatures cards which don't produce multi-bodies or have evasion to be pretty much dead by T3 (Abbot happens to be 2-drops so to me he is always dead unless I play against a durdle decks or play the aggro mirror) since Foundry Street Denizen is lower to cast he works better for me (I almost always side himout when I'm on the draw though). I prefer to use the beatdown as a happy accident and just focus on burning after the early game.

Do you guys really like rabble master? Post board abzan has infinite ways to kill them. It's possible the flamewakes could just be two rabbles.

Abzan has infinite ways to kill anything in our deck - its just if they can't master would take over the game really quickly.

Here's where I am at the moment:

[deck]Atarka Burn[/deck]

Valley Dasher is an experiment, my experience with him is that he's playable in a Meta where Searing Blood is good. My feeling is the meta is speeding up quite a bit compaed to pre-origins so at the moment, I prefer not to run any 3CMC creatures at all.

Can't imagine Dasher is A better 2 drop than Eidolon

Jasper, how was the singleton Roast in your main board? Worth it instead of the Stoke? Assuming your logic was cutting a Stoke for a Roast.

Even Scout seems better than Valley Dasher...

Won a game last night with a single mountain! Vs Abzan Rally that hit their first 6 lands.

Ended up with triple Swiftspear, getting in a few beats, then casted 3 stokes and his mana confluence with a Wild Slash off the top did it.