Dies to Removal

I'm not one to live on past glories or anything but I've been playing this deck all day long and it feels SOOOO comfortable and familiar that I almost want to say its this seasons "sledgehammer red", or Dos Rakis, but I know how passe that sounds the thing is it just feels like it fits the same mold very well. I don't have star city (and really I should) but the list was here on Channell fireball.

http://www.channelfireball.com/home/the ... -em-guide/

This is the list from the article for easy export to cockatrice if you're into that sort of thing.

[deck]
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Hordeling Outburst
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land
11 Mountain
4 Plains
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge

SB: 1 Banishing Light
SB: 2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
SB: 1 Wind-Scarred Crag
SB: 4 Hushwing Gryff
SB: 2 Glare of Heresy
SB: 3 Erase
SB: 2 Scouring Sands
[/deck]

The general weakness of 1 drops and the huge life swings in the format make pushes the deck up the curve 1 slot, and thus everything comes online starting turn 2 but in the end... There's 2 dragons in the air and a horde of goblins on the ground with awesome removal all the way around.
I'd like to put this on the chopping block and discuss it with you guys and see if it might be a great place to refocus our effort in something similar to what I'd think is our collective preferred deck style.
Smart mans aggro.
I'm in love with Heliods pilgrim being Extra Chained to the rocks, and I wish there was something else I could put in the deck to search up. I played somewhere around 5 or 6 matches vs U/W Heroic, and lost 1 game. I played against Esper Control what I thought was Shaheem Sorani's list and it lost because it had no answer to chandra, he used his heroes downfall early and never saw another.

All In all I'm advocating giving this deck a try and some consideration.

PS: You know what shits all over opposing Rabblemasters? Circle of Flame.

Why waste the slots in your board over that? Especially with so many people playing with Erase.

At the FNM level, it's probably acceptable to run Circle, but Sands is most likely the better card overall.

The deck already has so many ways to deal with Rabblemasters as it is.

I played Circle for the longest time and i realized that it was pretty narrow and answerable at some point.Even the Rabble Red decks have ways around it with pumps, hammerhand, & swiftspear

Hey! This is what I'm jamming in Standard right now, and have been since BBD's article. It's felt awesome, and I've gone 4-1 in the three events I've played it in.

My list is as follows, and I haven't felt that there are any cards I'd change.
[deck]
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

3 Chandra, Pyromaster

4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Hordeling Outburst
2 Banishing Light
4 Stoke the Flames

4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Windscarred Crag
1 Evolving Wilds
2 Plains
11 Mountain

Sideboard
1 Windscarred Crag
1 Magma Spray
3 Erase
1 Suspension Field
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Hushwing Gryff
2 Arc Lightning
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Sarkhan, Dragonspeaker[/deck]

It feels really strong. My prominent losses have been to Esper Control, but every other matchup feels very good, and the Esper games were still close.

Haven't played vs much UW Heroic.

I'm not sure if this is what I would take to a CompREL event if I had one soon, but it's been crushing FNM very consistently. I've been focused on Modern for GP Vancouver for all my competitive testing, so it's nice to have a simple but powerful standard deck to jam with.

Definitely recommend trying it out.

In my experience, Scouring Sands has been the better card. Circle is only good against Rabblemaster as the opponent can simply sit on tokens without Rabblemaster out until he finds Ascendancy.

At the FNM level, it's probably acceptable to run Circle, but Sands is most likely the better card overall.

The deck already has so many ways to deal with Rabblemasters as it is.

I played Circle for the longest time and i realized that it was pretty narrow and answerable at some point.Even the Rabble Red decks have ways around it with pumps, hammerhand, & swiftspear

Sands works once. Circle forces them to find an answer. They both cost the exact same mana. I wonder which one is "likely the better card overall." If sands scry'd 2 I might be more inclined to believe it was better, but 1 is just okay and does not make up for the fact that it isn't a continuing effect.

I hate when people use terms like "strictly better" or "probably just better," especially in cases like this where it certainly isn't true nor false.

I want my opponent to have to find an answer. I normally like reactive cards, but I'd rather not get pecked to death by tokens when I could just...you know, not do that. Neither card stops Ascendancy or Charm from putting it in your butt after a certain point, but at least you aren't losing incremental life for no reason.

Three reasons why Sands is better than Circle of Flame:

- Scry action.

- Sands deal damage outright during your main phase, which can set you up to make a crucial attack by clearing out blockers or finishing off damaged creatures post combat.

- Circle of Flame is reliant on 2 things: the opponent not having an answer for it and the opponent has to make a decision to attack. It doesn't actually do anything to their board by itself. Your opponent can just keep their army at the ready to block your attacks until they do draw into an answer or a way around the card.

I am partial to this list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=77924

Has anyone tested Sam Black's list?

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8751&d=250016&f=ST

No. Like I said earlier, I've been playing the deck to success by warping it to fit my meta.

If I played in a larger event, I'd probably drop all the Swifties and go bigger.

Are you playing Brimaz Khaos?

Playing this deck I really sat down and thought about the archetype of decks we were playing when we started.
Excellent small men backed by dragons, and removal. . . It makes me wonder if theres not a lot more design space for decks like this
each season.
It does play the same way as the old decks albeit with a lack of amazing 1 drops, like stormkirk noble and stonewright. This deck has really illustrated for me beyond a shadow of a doubt why BUTCHER OF THE HORDE is actually, "bad" for what our archetype is trying to accomplish.
I many regards we want to win the early game and "haste dragon" be it thudermaw, stormbreath, falkenrath aristocrat, hellrider or demigod of revenge the idea remains sound. I kinda feel like the slowest guy in the room or at least the most forgetful, because I knew that a season ago.

So I've been playtesting is quite a bit, it works pretty damned well obviously, but I'm slightly disheartened when I do lose to things like sidisi whip. I like this better in most regards than the other decks in the format because I have the most familiarity with this style of play (like Alex suggested)

Ramblings aside I'm wondering if you are having greats success or ideas concerning:
1.Elspeth in the side.
2. Phoenix over Brimaz
3. Anything else that Pilgrim might grab as an aura
As for the Sam black list. I like it in a bubble, though for the first second I was like *WHERE ARE THOU DRAGONS, SIR?"
Then it hits me that he's trying to to tech brood mate/Roc into card advantage... which is cool...
...except...
I have a hard time balancing the loss, Haste/Pro-azban charm vs Lifegain/Downfall resistance

When I DO like about that list is the one of swiftspear/dragonmantle + pilgrim which I guess answers my earlier conundrum now that I consider it the pilgrim can search up a mantle and do its best to mana sink you a victory.

I hope this isn't too disjointed because I'm tired but I really do feel like perhaps while I'm not able to stream currently I might be able to work with you guys at least in this capacity.

Lastly, I'd like to call it something different to but saying boros aggro is meh, because what where making here is an archetype clearly imho, dragonhammer decks or something. Because the philosophy is consistent from set to set.

We forced this style of deck this time last year too.

We forced this style of deck this time last year too.

Hmm... I don' think so, and I don't know if you're being snarky/disparaging, iirc, last year during Packrat heyday we were overall running R/W Burn. Which is in many ways a different animal most people will admit.
Though let me be clear. . . "I" was unaware of trying to force such a thing at that time. I was watching MDU battle broadcasts everyweek and reading James articles on channel fireball, playing burn because it had an amazing matchup vs monoblack.
So let me not give the impression that "We" are a monolith or make bad choices for "The LOVE".
I'm not pulling as Soreem Sorani here an saying "Control always everytime", thats not what good players do, but finding your niche is never wrong, expanding on it rarely ever hurts, and learning when NOT to force it is a valuable lesson.

Either way, even if I'm mistaken, this deck is good enough that we're not having to force anything. Its just a strong solid deck that fits and already established play-style many people here prefer.

That aside. . . I'm thinking that I'm coming to the same conclusion as you about brimaz being the worst card in the deck.

The only thing is, I feel like Phoenix is constantly getting exiled anyway by azban charm and utter end, so i end up playing 1 more mana on a slightly higher curve. Am I doing it wrong, Johnyspike?

I was being sincere. I cashed in at GP: Shizuoka with it.

[deck]
Lands (25)
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Boros Guildgate
11 Mountain

Creatures (20)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (15)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard (15)
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Chained to the Rocks
3 Boros Charm
2 Last Breath
3 Shock[/deck]

Are you playing Brimaz Khaos?

You know the answer to this......

I posted my decklist in the clan thread.

[deck]
Lands (25)
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Boros Guildgate
11 Mountain

Creatures (20)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (15)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard (15)
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Chained to the Rocks
3 Boros Charm
2 Last Breath
3 Shock[/deck]

Sheeeeit negro, I'd have given that a try to be sure. I figured skullcrack was mandatory and I think we'd be better off for it right now.
I really rather like the knew Monastery Mentor, in the slot for Brimaz, or more as rabblemaster 3-4 but a singleton wingmate roc is something I dying to try also. I don't want to up my curve too much so I'm considering.

- 2 brimaz
+ 1 Wingmate roc
+ 1 Ashcloud phoenix

just to see how I like them in the slots.

Are you testing the sam black list or are you wiling to do so for a few days that we might get a good comparison, maybe see if once is way better?

Are you playing Brimaz Khaos?

You know the answer to this......

I posted my decklist in the clan thread.

I forgot.

I'm playing in 2x FNMs tomorrow to get in practice before the Saturday PPTQ.

I can maybe play Sam's list in one of them.

Six five drops on 23 mana? Sure you're running four Magma Jet, but I mean, come on...

I also have no idea why you're running fetchlands.

It's like you put this deck together to troll me.

Alex is cray cray.

Even if you're playing them only to thin (which you've admitted is bad), they reset cards you've scryed to the bottom. That's no good.

You need 25 lands in the 75.

You just can't play elspeth on 23... I wouldn't play more than 2 five drops on 23 lands.

Hey Fellas!!

Been a while but standard just hasnt given me the same enthusiasm as of late, I really really felt so at home with RW Burn.

Stumbled upon the RW Wreck Em article last week really think it could be the deck for me.



Figured I'd try to at least give a little input.

How do we feel about Hushwing Gryff? I think Brimaz/Jet/Ashcloud/Pilgrim could possibly be shaved for it. Really well positioned right now.

I am a little partial as I ran 4 Hushwing over Rabbles in Jeskai Tempo at a SCG Open at the start of the format and did very well(8-2). I played 4 Junk midrange that day and won all 4.

I am partial to this list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=77924

Noticed this deck has 61 cards

Yup, probably -1 jet

Do you guys basically sideboard like in the RW Wreck Em article, or different at all?

Hey Fellas!!

Been a while but standard just hasnt given me the same enthusiasm as of late, I really really felt so at home with RW Burn

Stumbled upon the RW Wreck Em article last week really think it could be the deck for me.



Figured I'd try to at least give a little input.

How do we feel about Hushwing Gryff? I think Brimaz/Jet/Ashcloud/Pilgrim could possibly be shaved for it. Really well positioned right now.

I am a little partial as I ran 4 Hushwing over Rabbles in Jeskai Tempo at a SCG Open at the start of the format and did very well(8-2). I played 4 Junk midrange that day and won all 4.

I like 4 Hushwing in the sideboard. When you want it, you want all four. Usually replaces Rabblemaster.

Looked through Mtgtop8 and found this deck featured in dailies getting 2nd, 3rd, 4th respectively.

Piloted twice by one guy than another time by someone different.

Basically it goes very threat heavy and cuts down on the burn; just 4 Strike and 2 Stoke.

[deck]
10 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Plains
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Mana Confluence

4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Hushwing Gryff
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Lightning Strike
2 Stoke the Flames


4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Banishing Light

SIDEBOARD

2 Glare of Heresy
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Erase
1 Deicide
4 Arc Lightning
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Suspension Field
[/deck]

Going to play this in my first FNM:

[deck]
Creatures:15
4 Seeker of the Way
3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
3 Heliod's Pilgrim
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Wingmate Roc

Spells:21
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Dragon Mantle
1 Mortal Obstinacy
2 Lightning Strike
3 Raise the Alarm
4 Hordeling Outburst
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Stoke the Flames

Lands:24
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Mana Confluence
9 Mountain
4 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard:15
3 Erase
4 Glare of Heresy
2 Lightning Strike
2 Arc Lightning
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker[/deck]

Going to play this in the second:

[deck] Creatures:14
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells:21
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
4 Hordeling Outburst
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Stoke the Flames
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

Lands:25
4 Battlefield Forge
11 Mountain
4 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Wind-Scarred Crag

Sideboard:15
4 Erase
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Scouring Sands
1 Banishing Light
4 Hushwing Gryff
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
[/deck]

Trying to get a feel for what I want to play in the upcoming PPTQ / PTQ.

How's everyone feel about Pilgrim? I looked on StarCity and found 4 decks from IQs/Opens and none of them were running them.

I like the utility of pilgrim but Ive been running the Sam Black list for awhile and Ive probably become too fixated on the card lol

Gonna try Pilgrim at FNM tonight before pPTQ tomorrow.

Went 3-1 in the first FNM beating three sidisi whip decks and losing to a U/B control deck.

I think the pilgrim package is probably too cute. Mortal Obstinancy is really terrible and I would not advise it. Maybe change to Banishing Light.

Eidolon of Countless Battles performed fairly poorly and (discovered upon reading the card closely for the first time) can not be fetched with Pilgrim (which in my mind was the the biggest draw).

Ashcloud and Roc both overperformed.

Yeah, I could've told you that about Pilgrim and Eidolon lol

Since I may do a PPTQ tomorrow afternoon, I'm gonna practice at FNM with this:

[deck]
Creature 14
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 22
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Hordeling Outburst
3 Magma Jet
1 Erase
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames

Land 24
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
3 Plains
1 Mana Confluence
11 Mountain
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard 15
2 Magma Spray
2 Scouring Sands
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4 Hushwing Gryff
2 Glare of Heresy
3 Erase[/deck]

I'm getting greedy by not playing the 25th land in the board. Look out, we got a badass here!

I actually played the Pilgrim deck after Blacks article and I thoroughly enjoyed it. The appeal was how nice sideboarded games played out and how overwhelmingly favored I felt vs. non-green decks. My list was approx.

[deck]4 Seeker of the Way
3 Heliod's Pilgrim
3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Wingmate Roc

2 Chandra, Pyromaster

4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Dragon Mantle
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Lighting Strike
4 Hordeling Outburst
3 Raise the Alarm

24 Mana:

4 Glare of Heresey
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Erase
3 Arc Lightning
1 Hammerhand[/deck]

The pilgrims are good because all the early creatures are basically just there to trigger raid for wingmate roc and protect Chandra and being able to grab removal is just gas. Eidolon is good for exactly 2 reasons: the interaction with seeker of the way by making a giant lifelink dude, and closing games out when slapped on a flier. With all the tokens and enchantments(stray chains) it generally was worth +4 power on average.

The best thing about playing these boros decks is the massive tempo advantage you gain from playing chained to the rocks+large threat in the same turn and from having so few taplands compared to the rest of the format.

To Improve the deck, I'd suggest having some scouring sands in place of arc lighting as they do the same thing, but one's cheaper and has scry. Additionally Ashcloud phoenix was REALLY good and I can see cutting some eidolons from the main to run the full playset.

I'm not sure if this deck is better or worse then the Wreck-em version since they're different enough in playstyle. The big point of contention is honestly just rabblemaster. Unmolested it wins the game, but when it gets immideatly dealt with, it's just a much worse version of all the other options in this deck. Dragon v. Roc is just an extension of the same principle with the meta being slightly more roc friendly at the moment with all the murderous cuts and downfalls as opposed to the abzan charms and utter ends that where being played before. If you go with the rabble deck though, I'd definitely play dragon as it complimemnts that deck more.