Dies to Removal

I originally built this deck just to have some fun with a couple others that played Commander with a card I got as a birthday gift. Now I'm actually trying to make it competitive and running into issues in a group hug/combo meta. My experience with EDH is pretty low since I play it only every month or so.

I built it along a lifegain/beatdown theme which may just mean I need to scrap the idea or maybe I'm just doing it wrong. The general problem I have is that it's not fast enough to kill off the group hug or combo players by turn 5-6 and I have little interaction to be able to stop them as I'm not currently running nearly enough counterspells or removal. Normally I would depend on the other players in the game to stop them but it looks like they're all focusing on comboing off to some degree and just racing each other or I draw the board's full attention early. That means even if I kill one combo, I can'
t stop the others. Is there a solution to this or does it just mean I need to play control in that meta?

Here's the deck currently:

[deck]
Commander

1 Treva, the Renewer

Artifact (16)
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Batterskull
1 Behemoth Sledge
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Mimic Vat
1 Phyrexian Processor
1 Pristine Talisman
1 Sol Ring
1 Trading Post
1 Whispersilk Cloak

Creature (30)
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Acidic Slime
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Augury Adept
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Cold-Eyed Selkie
1 Daxos of Meletis
1 Drogskol Reaver
1 Elderwood Scion
1 Eternal Witness
1 Horizon Chimera
1 Hydra Omnivore
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Phantom Nishoba
1 Prophet of Kruphix
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Reveillark
1 Rhox Faithmender
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selvala, Explorer Returned
1 Serra Ascendant
1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Sun Titan
1 Trostani, Selesnyas Voice
1 Trygon Predator
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Courser of Kruphix

Enchantment (6)
1 Aura Shards
1 Cradle of Vitality
1 Marshal's Anthem
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Sylvan Library
1 True Conviction

Instant (3)
1 Bant Charm
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Treva's Charm

Sorcery (7)
1 Genesis Wave
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Martial Coup
1 Rite of Replication
1 Storm Herd
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Wargate

Land (37)
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Breeding Pool
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Command Tower
1 Eiganjo Castle
3 Forest
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Graypelt Refuge
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Homeward Path
1 Island
1 Kabira Crossroads
1 Krosan Verge
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
2 Plains
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Sapseep Forest
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Sejiri Refuge
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Temple Garden
1 Temple of Enlightenment
1
Temple of Mystery
1 Temple of Plenty
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Treva's Ruins
1 Windbrisk Heights
[/deck]

Step one is definitely replacing a fair bit of the tap lands with various pain lands/artifacts since my life total can fuel it early game. I also want to fit in two more of the gain extra turn spells.

After that, the question is if I need to go more interaction, hopefully on legs, or find a way to speed up the deck with more haste/flash and probably even swapping the commander for Jenara or Rafiq so that I'm reducing the damage I need to do by half and negating enemy life gain. I imagine I need to cut several of the support cards to slow the durdle.

Or is this just a losing battle and once a meta goes combo, any creature based strategy is auto lose in multiplayer?

My main opponents are Jhoira of the Ghitu, Azami, Lady of Scrolls, and Phelddagrif. At least those are the ones I can remember.

Cards
I recently dropped for being slow were Enlightened Tutor, Primal Command, [card]Sphinx's Revelation[/card], Serra Avatar, and Ageless Entity.

Also floating about the idea of Ajani Goldmane and Venser, the Sojourner since they synergy with the other cards and let me be more aggressive, and maybe, maybe Elspeth, Knight-Errant just for the evasion and possible ultimate.

I'd say that if you're playing an aggro strategy in EDH, you need to be killing on turns 5-6 to be competitive.

Otherwise, you're going to need to plan on being able to interact heavily with your competitors. If your entire metagame is doing combo that goes of at turns 5-8...that's a rough place to be. You're almost playing vintage at that point. Control can't really win out in that metagame unless you're building something that shuts down all the combo players using global effects, which is a tall order. You can't win trying to trade 1 for 1 with an entire table.

If they're not able to assemble combos quite that quickly, consistently, or they're not playing pure combo lists, then you have a lot more options opening up.

In the abstract, Rafiq, Jenara, or even Roon would probably be stronger options. Cheaper generals and generals that offer significant tempo or card advantage tend to be the dominant types.

Thanks.

I'm not sure, it doesn't feel like it should be legacy style but maybe it is or maybe I'm just not putting enough pressure to slow people down.

Rafiq is probably what I'll swap to and retool accordingly. It was one of the combo players who suggested I put in genesis wave after looking at the deck. Then he turn 6'd drew his deck and played lab maniac . At least I had 12 commander damage with Treva on the suspend player by then. Woo...

Thanks.

I'm not sure, it doesn't feel like it should be legacy style but maybe it is or maybe I'm just not putting enough pressure to slow people down.

Rafiq is probably what I'll swap to and retool accordingly. It was one of the combo players who suggested I put in genesis wave after looking at the deck. Then he turn 6'd drew his deck and played lab maniac .

Naturally.

Yeah, Rafiq should be a nice choice for that sort of metagame. It has a good clock, and after you resolve your general, you have the ability to potentially one-shot people with infect or Finest Hour or sit back on counters and build up card advantage. I
might be able to post the list I currently use in a day or two when I get home.

Thanks.

I'm not sure, it doesn't feel like it should be legacy style but maybe it is or maybe I'm just not putting enough pressure to slow people down.

Rafiq is probably what I'll swap to and retool accordingly. It was one of the combo players who suggested I put in genesis wave after looking at the deck. Then he turn 6'd drew his deck and played lab maniac .

Naturally.

Yeah, Rafiq should be a nice choice for that sort of metagame. It has a good clock, and after you
resolve your general, you have the ability to potentially one-shot people with infect or Finest Hour or sit back on counters and build up card advantage. I might be able to post the list I currently use in a day or two when I get home.

I used to have finest hour in there before I pulled it out for being too slow. How I learn, heh.

Should I be annoyed when someone looks at my deck, hands me cards like Genesis Wave to put in and then plays that deck and hands someone else Jhoira representing beaters/jokulhops on turn 5? It feels like telling a friend to play white weenies and then slamming down RW burn in standard. Shrug.

Well...sometimes the Jokulhaups gets countered. It's easy to see coming, after all.

Obliterate or Decree of Annihilation, maybe not so much, but what can most anyone do there?

I've never had a list that cares to run Genesis Wave, myself, but for your list as originally built, it makes a lot of sense.

Well, it does if the game is going to last longer than turn 6, yeah. I've just decided he's myopic and leaving it at that.

The mana base is very much a wish list but here's what I have as a starting point before I go netdecking.


[deck]
Commander
1 Rafiq of the Many

Artifact (14)
1 Behemoth Sledge
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Coalition Relic
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Mimic Vat
1 Phyrexian Processor
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Talisman of Unity
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Bow of Nylea

Creature (30)
1 Acidic Slime
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Battlegrace Angel
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Cold-Eyed Selkie
1 Daxos of Meletis
1 Phantom Nishoba
1 Eternal Witness
1 Giltspire Avenger
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Hydra Omnivore
1 Jenara, Asura of War
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Mystic Snake
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Prophet of Kruphix
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reveillark
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selvala, Explorer Returned
1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Sublime Archangel
1 Sun Titan
1
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Trygon Predator
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Phyrexian Metamorph

Enchantment (8)
1 Aura Shards
1 Finest Hour
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Marshal's Anthem
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Rancor
1 Sylvan Library
1 True Conviction

Instant (3)
1 Bant Charm
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Treva's Charm

Planeswalker (2)
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Venser, the Sojourner

Sorcery (6)
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Rite of Replication
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Time Warp
1 Walk the Aeons
1 Wargate

Land (37)
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Breeding Pool
1 Brushland
1 Cathedral of War
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Flooded Grove
3 Forest
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Homeward Path
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Island
1 Mana Confluence
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Mystic Gate
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
2 Plains
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Seachrome Coast
n1 Seaside Citadel
1 Tarnished Citadel
1 Temple Garden
1 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Temple of Plenty
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Yavimaya Coast[/deck]

All these pain mana sources is probably very ambitious since I've sided out some of the lifegain. Not sure if Rafiq needs more suits or if the random buffs is sufficient.

My biggest concern with the above is that in the meta you describe, your curve is way too high, and your ability to interact with opponents is really, really low. Makes you a sitting duck for combo. If your best aggression can't even be realistically cast until turns 5 or 6, and you're dying on turn 8...

Here's my version of Rafiq for reference, probably not much like what other players are using.

Plan A is to tutor up Cold-Eyed Selkie. Each time you hit with Selkie, you draw at least 6 cards. That makes it very easy to take lots of extra turns, and counter lots of spells.

Cephalid Constable works pretty well too, if you're up against a single opponent or expect that countermagic may not work well. One downside is, he has no evasion.

If you can't do either of those things, your usual fallback is something Ohran Viper, Thada Adel, Daxos, Scroll Thief, or equipment such as Sword of Fire and Ice or Mask of
Memory. Something that lets you draw multiple cards per turn, and then switch over to using control cards to stop whatever it is your opponent's trying to do to survive.

And if at any point a window opens up for a one-shot kill with Rafiq, obviously you take it.

Orim's Chant and Silence are unconventional inclusions, but are pretty unfairly good here. Once your card draw engine gets going, they often amount to one-mana Time Warps, since you don't much care about being down a card.

Rafiq

*38 Lands* (Painlands, Duals, Noodles, Fetches, Bounces, Sunpetal Grove etc., Filter Lands, Gaea's Cradle, Ancient Tomb, Command Tower, Homeward path, Basics)

[deck]
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Silence
1 Bribery
1 Bloom Tender
1 Argentum Armor
1 Knowledge Exploitation
1 Force of Will
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Walk the Aeons
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Time Stretch
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Trygon Predator
1 Mana Crypt
1 Swan Song
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Negate
1 Sword
of Fire and ice
1 Cold-eyed Selkie
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Scroll Thief
1 Diluvian Primordial
1 Cephalid Constable
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Orim's Chant
1 Misdirection
1 Sylvan Tutor
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Augury Adept
1 Treachery
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Bant Charm
1 Time Warp
1 Fabricate
1 Hinder
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Counterspell
1 Finest Hour
1 Jace the Mind Sculptor
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Spell Crumple
1 Grafted Exoskeleton
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Ohran Viper
1 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
1 Daxos of Melitis
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Mana Drain
1 Llanowar elves
1 Sol Ring
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Walk the Aeons
1 Trinket Mage
1 Wild Growth
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Parallax Wave
1 Memnarch
1 Mask of Memory
[/deck]

Yeah I started to realize after I metaphorically sobered up that I was falling into the same trap of heavy durdle creature but I was starting to give up as I couldn't wrap my head around how it works after shoving myself into standard so much. Doesn't help that I was clearly getting some terrible advice from the local EDH experts.

Seriously, thank you for the advice.

It'll probably take me a week or two to digest it and replan/trade but I like the idea.

Had to look up that noodle land is a term for the shock lands.

Now to begin slowly plotting my revenge.

Very welcome, I'll keep an eye out for your next post.