Dies to Removal

How it works:
Each poster can submit any number of cards, until we reach 99 cards. You may also use votes to propose to remove a card that's already on the list. You can post as many cards as you want, but once you hit ten cards included into the deck, you are out of submissions. (This may change depending on the popularity of this activity and the time frame that we have left.)

Each time you submit a card, you should do your best to try and explain both the pros and the cons of the card. Try and be specific, although it is understandable that some cards are just no-brainers. Mana rocks will not count as using up one of your submissions, however proposing to REMOVE mana rocks does count as one, as long as you can make a proper case for doing so!

Players can agree with propositions by thanking the corresponding post. (Unless someone has a cleaner way to handle this, I'm all
ears.) Once a card reaches a certain threshold (will change later, for now we'll say 3 votes) it will be added to the list in the original post and it's in the deck!


A few rules to keep things civil, as well as to keep the thread easy to read for archival purposes:

1.) Use lists, preferably numbered or with bullets, to illustrate your pros/cons lists.
2.) Disagreeing with a post is fine, as is responding to allow proper discourse, but remember that this activity is supposed to be light hearted community-building, so keep it clean and try and remain on point and civil.
3.) Try and use card tags, it makes things easier for those of us who don't have AutocardAnywhere installed or are browsing on our phones.
4.) Stay on focus. Nobody wants to read ten posts about a card that is clearly not a worthy include. If you want to put Door of Destinies in the deck, there should be a thematical and logical reasoning behind it. Try not to waste our time with cards that do not fit the theme of the deck or
cards that otherwise make no sense at all. (No, we're not interested in playing Search the City.)

I'll start with, the obvious...



Pros:
This goes in EVERY green deck
Returns ANY card we want to our hand

Cons:
Er... Uhh... It's a 2/1 I guess?

Armageddon
Catastrophe

Karametra is a god of Ramp and with a bunch of weenies, is poised to take uber advantage of mass land destruction. Blow up the lands, drop a few weenies to recover, beat everyone's faces in, repeat.

Generic vote for gating creatures and that white flying dork for either 2 or 3 mana that returns a creature to hand on cast...aaaaah forget it's name. I guess Stonecloaker? Is there another one?

Downside, those are not much good without the general in play. But paying three mana for a land on demand, and at instant speed no less, seems fairly valuable.

Avenger of Zendikar



Pros:
- Win condition if played appropriately.

Cons:
- Basically asks someone for a board wipe.

Ranger of Eos, with her friends Mother of Runes, Serra Ascendant and Scute Mob (we probably need more friends, but this deck probably wants to play 5+ 1-drops anyway, especially if we're going the Armageddon route).



Pros: Fills your hand with creatures to ramp with (many of which are good enough by themselves anyway)
Cons: 4 mana for a 3/2

Generic vote for gating creatures and that white flying dork for either 2 or 3 mana that returns a creature to hand on cast...aaaaah forget it's name. I guess Stonecloaker? Is there another one?

Whitemane Lion and Kor Skyfisher could be really good, yeah. Completely useless without the general (maybe Stonecloaker's better thanks to the grave hate?), but damn.

I'd suggest just playing Whitemane Lion and Stonecloaker. At least they can save a guy from removal in a pinch. Skyfisher is completely useless without Karametra.



Pros: Combos with Karametra -> [mana]1W[/mana]: Fetch a land.
Cons: Pretty bad without Karametra (though not completely useless)

Hell if we're playing those guys anyway, how about Wild Pair?



Pros: - Doubles up any guy you cast.
- Combos with Whitemane Lion and Stonecloaker to pull all your 2/2's and 3/2's out.

Cons: - A bit limited in what you can fetch depending on the P/T of the creature entering.

Wild Pair also gives us a crap ton of lands.

Unfortunately not, since Karametra requires that you cast the creature.

However, it does combo with Soul of the Harvest!



Pros: Card draw.
Cons: There are none, this guy is awesome.


We should also play Primordial Sage.



Pros and cons: See above (though he's close to being strictly worse than Soul of the Harvest, if that counts as a con).

Soul of the Harvest literally has no drawback. Getting a 6/6 for 6 is fair in any color, but adding Trample and a draw engine to that is insane.

Especially in this deck where we need to make sure we're not gassing out. We want to play small CMC creatures to take full advantage of Karametra, but we need that to go somewhere if we're going to take full advantage of Karametra's lands.

Our Karametra player can routinely have all 37 of his lands in play by turn 8-10. I come from a meta where there is no land destruction at all, so my suggestions will likely be jaded by that.

If we're running lots of cheap, little creatures and a ton of land I think this is a good inclusion.



Pros:
- Turns a bunch of little dweebs into a bunch of hulks.

Cons:
- Needs a board presence to be really explosive.

Generic vote for gating creatures and that white flying dork for either 2 or 3 mana that returns a creature to hand on cast...aaaaah forget it's name. I guess Stonecloaker? Is there another one?

Whitemane Lion and Kor Skyfisher could be really good, yeah. Completely useless without the general (maybe Stonecloaker's better thanks to the grave hate?), but damn.

I'd suggest just playing Whitemane Lion and Stonecloaker. At least they can
save a guy from removal in a pinch. Skyfisher is completely useless without Karametra.



Pros: Combos with Karametra -> [mana]1W[/mana]: Fetch a land.
Cons: Pretty bad without Karametra (though not completely useless)

Skyfisher! That was it. Ah. I feel better now.

Maybe it'll turn out they have some uses, if we have enough ETB effects?

Our Karametra player can routinely have all 37 of his lands in play by turn 8-10. I come from a meta where there is no land destruction at all, so my suggestions will likely be jaded by that.

If we're running lots of cheap, little creatures and a ton of land I think this is a good inclusion.



Pros:
- Turns a bunch of little dweebs into a bunch of hulks.

Cons:
- Needs a board presence to be really explosive.

Depending on how the list shapes up later, might want to consider adding elf (Skyshroud Poacher + Trostani's Summoner + Deranged Hermit) and rebel chains to the list. The activations won't trigger
Karametra, but they're good ways to build up a board presence, and then fetch Mirror Entity at EOT for a win.

Gaea's Cradle seems like a pretty likely candidate, regardless. Does Dryad Arbor trigger Karametra? Nah, I suppose it doesn't. Too bad.

Yeah, Dryad Arbor isn't a spell.

Assuming there will be some amount of land destruction, what about...



Helps come back faster from a mass land destruction wipe, and makes Fetches reusable.

Here are a few cards I used in my Bant deck that were big winners for me:
Gaddock Teeg- eat a dick control and wrath cards.
Glare of Subdual- when facing aggro
Wilt-leaf Liege- team buff and counter discard
Sheild of Oversoul- say no to wrath
Karma- Ever play against heavy black? They play Uborg, Tomb of Yagamoth?
Ghostly Prison- can stop a mass attack Rude Awakening or land>to dudes plays. Goblin decks hate it to.
Primal Command-go get me a dude!
Archangel of Thune + Spike Feeder- It's good to have an infinite combo somewhere.
[card]Chastise[/
card]- underrated in commander for white removal. Can be a massive life gainer.
Ivory Mask- very handy against decks that target players for wins.

What do you guys think of her?

Yeah, Dryad Arbor isn't a spell.

Assuming there will be some amount of land destruction, what about...



Helps come back faster from a mass land destruction wipe, and makes Fetches reusable.

If lands destruction is the norm, then Cricible + Wasteland, Strip Mine, Tectonic Edge?
Knight of the Reliquary in order to fetch them?

I don't want to assume it will be a normalcy, just shore up defenses against something that could shut Karametra down. But yeah, it can make Wasteland and Strip Mine effects repeatable too. That's a point in it's favor.

Make sure you guys read the OP; you should post your cards in separate posts so that they can be "voted in." It makes the entire exercise easier to do for whoever is running it.

Going to do an example for those of you who didn't see the other, original thread. This is pretty much how I've been trying to keep posts formatted since it makes it a lot easier to moderate and tally.




Card: Gavony Township

Pros:
+A spell in a land slot, and it even makes colorless mana.
+Synergistic with the idea of the deck.

Cons:
-Gets hit by Tectonic Edge and Strip Mine pretty regularly.
-Doesn't do much on an empty board.
-Can't be fetched with the commander.

Card: Angel of Jubilation

Pros:
+Synergistic with a weenie deck.
+Stops certain sacrifice shenanigans involving Krark-Clan Ironworks, Sheoldred, Whispering One, and helps cockblock [card]Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker[/card] decks. I'm sure there are more that I'm not thinking of, but you get the picture.
+Not a bad sized body for the price you pay.

Cons:
-An anthem creature will usually not survive to your next attack step.
-Doesn't do a ton on an empty board.

On the subject of anthems...



Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

Pros:
- See Angel of Jubilation, minus the ability to stop shenanigans but with the added benefit of doing slightly more to an empty board. Unless your opponents don't have one either.

Cons:
- See Angel of Jubilation again.

Whenever I run a ton of creatures I'm always hyper-aware of how much I could get boned by a wrath.



Rootborn Defenses

Pros:
- Fuck yo' board wipe.

Cons:
- 3 mana is a lot to keep open just tot stop one board wipe.
- Offers no protection from tuck, bounce or exile wipes.

[card]Faith's Reward[/card]

Pros:
- See Rootborn Defenses.

Cons:
- See Rootborn Defenses, +1 the mana.

Leyline of Lifeforce

Pros:
- Uncounterable creature spells mean you definitely get your land. Having uncounterable creatures is nice by itself too.

Cons:
- Somewhat obvious target for removal.

Leyline of Lifeforce

Pros:
- Uncounterable creature spells mean you definitely get your land. Having uncounterable creatures is nice by itself too.

Cons:
- Somewhat obvious target for removal.

Karametra's a cast trigger, so whether the creature is countered, you still get your land.

Amulet of Vigor

Pro:
- Karametra brings new lands into play tapped, as do many ramp spells. This turns ramp spells into rituals as well.

Con:
- Encourages over-extension.

Chord of Calling

Pros:
- Basically a free creature in a deck with a ton of ramp and bodies.
- Puts tutored creature directly into play, which is pretty broken.

Cons:
-

Leyline of Lifeforce

Pros:
- Uncounterable creature spells mean you definitely get your land. Having uncounterable creatures is nice by itself too.

Cons:
- Somewhat obvious target for removal.

Karametra's a cast trigger, so whether the creature is countered, you still get your land.

Fair.