Dies to Removal

Playerlist

1. imopen2
2. Checkbox
3. DroppinSuga*
4. Iso*
5. Stardust*
6. TubeHunter
7. Clownfish
8. rcwraspy
9. RedNihilist

* denotes experienced player

Game Timeline
- Day phases will last two weeks.
- Night phases will last two days.

General Rules
- Unless your role PM specifically states you are allowed to, you may not discuss this game outside of this thread.
- You may not directly quote any private communications (such as role PMs or QuickTopics) in this thread.
- Do not use encrypted or hard-to-see text (including "invisible" text, text below the 50% text size option, or text hidden via BBCode).

Votes, Lynching, Death
- Votes must be in the format of VOTE: Player Name(bold tags). Abbreviations, missing punctuation, and misspellings will be accepted as long as it is obvious to me who is being voted for. If I perceive it as a vote, it will count as
a vote.
- Unvotes are not necessary to change a vote, but I still appreciate them.
- A player will be lynched if a majority of the players have voted for that player; when that happens, no further votes/unvotes will have any effect.
- You may vote for a No Lynch. If a majority of players vote for a No Lynch, the game will proceed to Night without a lynch.
- The above will also happen if no majority has been reached before the deadline.
- All living players, including the one who was lynched, may continue to post during twilight (until I declare the start of the night phase).
- After you are dead, you may not post again.

Activity
- If a player doesn't post in-game after a period of 72 hours, they will be prodded.
- If a player is prodded, they have 24 hours to make an in-game post before a replacement will be found(or their slot is modkilled).
- If a player receives multiple prods and/or prod-dodges excessively, they will be subject to a force-replace/modkill.
- If you
anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period, let me know by either posting a V/LA notice inthread or PMing me.

Game-Specific Rules
- This game contains experienced players here to help along the gamestate and help instruct the newer players. These experienced players are held to a higher standard and expected to assist/inform the newbies about mafia theory/mechanics/etc. regardless of their alignment.
- That said, experienced players should not kiddie-handle the newbies. Play to win.

Misc
- Any night actions not submitted by the night deadline will be forfeited.
- Respect your fellow players. Antagonistic behavior is allowed as long as it's in the spirit of the game, but direct attacks/insults are not permitted. Attack the play, not the person.(THIS GOES DOUBLY FOR A NEWBIE GAME SUCH AS THIS.)
- THIS color is reserved for the moderator. Do
not use it.
- Do not edit your posts.
- If you have a question, bold it in-thread so I don’t miss it or PM me. The same goes if you spot any mistakes I may make.
- Ignorance of the rules is not an acceptable excuse for breaking them.
- Have fun!

Game Notes
- The game is based on the semi-open Matrix 6 set up shown here: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Matrix_6

- The Town Win condition is: You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

- The Mafia Win condition is: You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

Nine players. Seven townies, two scum. Watch, listen, and be wary of your fellow players, as two of them seek to subjugate and destroy you.

Today is your first chance to find and kill the scum that seeks to blend in among you. Give it your all, as you may not live to see tomorrow...


Vote Count 0.00
Not voting: imopen2, Checkbox, DroppinSuga, Iso, Stardust, TubeHunter, Clownfish, rcwraspy, RedNihilist

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is October 11, 2013 12:00A.M. PST

Day 1 Start!

Vote: DroppinSuga because he is my tryhard nemesis.

Vote Kaze for giving me red in my role PM but not sending me a link to the scumchat.

Just kidding. Everyone knows townies are blue.

Right?

Vote Kaze for giving me red in my role PM but not sending me a link to the scumchat.

Just kidding. Everyone knows townies are blue.

Right?

Vote Iso

No...they aren't

Well there's a townie.

So, imopen is now confirmed town to me.

Now, let's do things.

Right now, we're still (sort of) in RVS. My opening post was a gambit to lure out the next poster to see their response.

Kaze's from MafiaScum, so townies are green in role PMs (instead of blue, like on MTGS).

I know this because I have a green role.

Any questions?

Why are you focusing so much on meta-information?

Haha, awesome. Pretty ballsy gambit for scum to pull, so I guess I'll forego my standard RVS vote. Ya got off easy this time, kiddo.

Vote Checkbox.

Hi there, I'm alive and posting.
I think I'll wait a bit before starting voting and unvoting though... let me get my popcorn before that

Haha, awesome. Pretty ballsy gambit for scum to pull, so I guess I'll forego my standard RVS vote. Ya got off easy this time, kiddo.

Vote Checkbox.

And what Gambit did Checkbox pull in your eyes?

Another question: if you want to change something about your post because you made an error, can you edit or is that a bad idea? Should you just doublepost instead?

(To wit, I wanted to remove the "And" in my previous post. It's there because at first I also asked what RVS is, but I already found the answer)

Don't ever edit posts in Mafia games. Double posting is ALWAYS preferred.

Also, I don't recommend ever doing what I did at the start of the game because some people might consider it not in the spirit of the game.

Also, Vote Checkbox. Would somebody (not Stardust) like to tell me why?

Don't ever edit posts in Mafia games. Double posting is ALWAYS preferred.

Also, I don't recommend ever doing what I did at the start of the game because some people might consider it not in the spirit of the game.

Also, Vote Checkbox. Would somebody (not Stardust) like to tell me why?

Is that last question like a quiz question? In that case I'll bite. I guess whatever information that might lead us to identifying a mafia member early on is obviously useful, and in the beginning of the game you only really have meta-information to go on. So asking
why we should use meta-information might be construed as an attempt to keep us in the dark. Is that why you voted for him?

On another note: unless there's some convention I'm not aware of, it's not necessary that town PM's have a different color than mafia. That means that to me, neither Iso nor imopen2 are cleared.

PS: I have a strategy question. What merit is there, if any, to not lynching anyone day 1? I understand that you want to pressure people so they have an opportunity to fuck up, but what if there are no (strong) tells?

Actually, letting a chance slip by is a tempo loss, as the mafia can (and will) strike with 100% accuracy.

Clownfish, my read on Checkbox is not meta-related. It's not a quiz question, but I am in this game as an "Experienced" player, so my intention is to run you guys through the basics. Since I'm likely to carry the game on my own, I want original thought injected into the game by the newer players so they don't feel like I dragged them through the whole thing on account of my force of personality.

On that note, care to try again?

Also, it is about 99.9% guaranteed that the town and mafia have different colors in their role PMs. This is for easy recognition and differentiation in win conditions upon lynches, kills, and reading of the role PM.

There are absolutely no benefits to lynching nobody on Day 1, at least not in this game. It deprives us of wagon information, gives us one less body to analyze, and
overall, gives the scum an easy place to hide their vote. There will always be a lynch candidate. Why, do you think there's some benefit to No Lynching? If so, what is it, and why do you think that?

Clownfish, my read on Checkbox is not meta-related. It's not a quiz question, but I am in this game as an "Experienced" player, so my intention is to run you guys through the basics. Since I'm likely to carry the game on my own, I want original thought injected into the game by the newer players so they don't feel like I dragged them through the whole thing on account of my force of personality.

On that note, care to try again?

Checkbox made two posts so far, and you say your vote is not based on meta-information. I assume the reason also isn't his question about the focus on meta, since that was my last suggestion for why you might have a read. That would leave his initial post, which seems to me to be a random vote. Does that
give you a scum read because as town you should keep a low profile lest other townies think you are scum or a power role? Other than that, I honestly don't know. From what I read about the RVS on the wiki, most initial votes on day 1 are based on humorous and / or obviously flawed premises to keep things moving. This would seem to fall in that category.

Also, it is about 99.9% guaranteed that the town and mafia have different colors in their role PMs. This is for easy recognition and differentiation in win conditions upon lynches, kills, and reading of the role PM.

Are the colors determined arbitrarily or is there a default for this?

There are absolutely no benefits to lynching nobody on Day 1, at least not in this game. It deprives us of wagon information, gives us one less body to analyze, and overall, gives the scum an easy place to hide their vote.
There will always be a lynch candidate. Why, do you think there's some benefit to No Lynching? If so, what is it, and why do you think that?

Well, let me preface this by saying that I don't have a lot of experience, so this logic is all based on conjecture.

I thought it might be preferable not to lynch when there is much uncertainty about the lynch candidates' alignment(s), because you are more likely to lynch a townie at random. So on average it would lower the town/mafia ratio. I guess this is based on the presupposition that after the night there is more information to go on, but I do think that is generally the case.

Also, what do you mean by wagon information?

Clownfish, my read on Checkbox is not meta-related. It's not a quiz question, but I am in this game as an "Experienced" player, so my intention is to run you guys through the basics. Since I'm likely to carry the game on my own, I want original thought injected into the game by the newer players so they don't feel like I dragged them through the whole thing on account of my force of personality.

On that note, care to try again?

Checkbox made two posts so far, and you say your vote is not based on meta-information. I assume the reason also isn't his question about the
focus on meta, since that was my last suggestion for why you might have a read. That would leave his initial post, which seems to me to be a random vote. Does that give you a scum read because as town you should keep a low profile lest other townies think you are scum or a power role? Other than that, I honestly don't know. From what I read about the RVS on the wiki, most initial votes on day 1 are based on humorous and / or obviously flawed premises to keep things moving. This would seem to fall in that category.

My push is based on...well, I'll let someone else try to guess before I drop the reveal on that. I can assure you that my vote is not humorous, nor is it (intentionally, if at all) based on a flawed premise. Do you seriously see nothing strange about his post?

Also, it is about 99.9% guaranteed that the town and mafia have different colors in their role PMs. This is for easy recognition and differentiation in win
conditions upon lynches, kills, and reading of the role PM.

Are the colors determined arbitrarily or is there a default for this?

Generally, it's blue/green = town, gray = neutral, red = mafia. You start to see some weird colors when cults and double scumteams are involved, but we also know there are no Neutrals and only 2 scum in this game.

There are absolutely no benefits to lynching nobody on Day 1, at least not in this game. It deprives us of wagon information, gives us one less body to analyze, and overall, gives the scum an easy place to hide their vote. There will always be a lynch candidate. Why, do you think there's some benefit to No Lynching? If so, what is it, and why do you think that?[/quote:
a8415pcs]
Well, let me preface this by saying that I don't have a lot of experience, so this logic is all based on conjecture.

I thought it might be preferable not to lynch when there is much uncertainty about the lynch candidates' alignment(s), because you are more likely to lynch a townie at random. So on average it would lower the town/mafia ratio. I guess this is based on the presupposition that after the night there is more information to go on, but I do think that is generally the case.

You can draw connections from bodies, voting, and lynches. It's always best to put behavioral analysis first, setup-gaming second, unless there are known quantities about the setup in question.

Such as this one. :awesome:

Also, what do you mean by wagon information?

Let's just say that as this game
progresses, you'll see that you can gain more information during the Day than the Night.

What information do you suppose we could glean from a Night phase, Clownfish?

bah broken quote tags whatever should be clear what I'm saying and responding to.

Clownfish, the way Mafia is played here, you always want a day lynch. There's pretty much no info given out at night other than anything a PR may give. At other sites I've played, there's detailed night write ups and at those sites, a day lynch is not always useful.

My push is based on...well, I'll let someone else try to guess before I drop the reveal on that. I can assure you that my vote is not humorous, nor is it (intentionally, if at all) based on a flawed premise. Do you seriously see nothing strange about his post?

I think you misunderstood me. What I meant is that it seemed like Checkbox's post falls into the humorous and/or flawed category, not yours. Other than the things I have already discussed, I don't see anything all that suspicious.

Generally, it's blue/green = town, gray = neutral, red = mafia. You start to see some
weird colors when cults and double scumteams are involved, but we also know there are no Neutrals and only 2 scum in this game.

Have you played in more games with Kaze?

You can draw connections from bodies, voting, and lynches. It's always best to put behavioral analysis first, setup-gaming second, unless there are known quantities about the setup in question.

Such as this one. :awesome:

Given the known quantities in this case, do you know under what circumstances it would be wise as townie to push for mass claiming?

Let's just say that as this game
progresses, you'll see that you can gain more information during the Day than the Night.

Could you be more specific about what you mean by wagon information?

What information do you suppose we could glean from a Night phase, Clownfish?

The power roles will have had the opportunity to use their powers, and the mafia will most likely kill the most threatening player which gives us the opportunity to try and deduce their identity from that person's interactions.

Clownfish, the way Mafia is played here, you always want a day lynch. There's pretty much no info given out at night other than anything a PR may give. At other sites I've played, there's detailed night write ups and at those sites, a day lynch is not always useful.

...PR?

Power Role. Meaning a role that has an ability, whether it be vigilante, cop, census taker, etc.

Clownfish, the way Mafia is played here, you always want a day lynch. There's pretty much no info given out at night other than anything a PR may give. At other sites I've played, there's detailed night write ups and at those sites, a day lynch is not always useful.

Alrighty, thanks.

Power Role. Meaning a role that has an ability, whether it be vigilante, cop, census taker, etc.

Okay, that wasn't even *that* difficult

Thanks bro

That's what we're here for.

Did you vote because checkbox was too agressive in his post?

Haha, awesome. Pretty ballsy gambit for scum to pull, so I guess I'll forego my standard RVS vote. Ya got off easy this time, kiddo.

Vote Checkbox.

And what Gambit did Checkbox pull in your eyes?

Ah, you misunderstand. My standard RVS vote is to Vote Iso. Voting Iso at some point in the game is (in my opinion) always a good idea. He's a slippery one. Lucky for him (and me too, I guess) he's near confirmed town already which takes a great weight off
the town's game. So he got off easy without a vote. My Checkbox vote was unrelated.

Once you get a feel for what you should be looking for and really how to think about this game (putting yourself in others' shoes, for example), there certainly is a lot to learn from every post. For example, despite not talking about anything important yet, you're 95% town in my mind based primarily on your third post of the game.

By the way, a tip that Iso told me when I was starting out. Most newbies (and plenty of experienced players too) try their best to find scum based on little tells and what they perceive to be the other person's motivation for posting certain things. That works to an extent, but the problem is that most plays can have both town or scum motivation, making this prone to bias - when you're really trying to prove that a certain person is scum, everything they do looks scummy. A better strategy is often to clear people as town based on behaviour, narrowing the field of potential scummers. That's not exactly easy, and you can be wrong there too (so keep your eyes open), but I've found that advice helpful in my games.

hey all. like a few of you, this is my first mafia game.

From what I can tell Iso's really coming out of the gates quickly here. I honestly have no idea what to make of that, but I also don't quite understand the vote for Checkbox. Could it be because of familiarity from previous games?

Sorry, didn't read every last word yet. Stardust, why would Iso be near confirmed town to you?

Put yourself in scumIso's shoes for a sec. You get a role PM with red text (as expected). Now, you're a good player and could probably steamroll a room full of newbies on a bad day... but rather than just play the game, you decide to take a gamble. You guess Kaze probably made the town role PM's green. He might have made them blue to conform to the other games so far on this site, but that's maybe a 25% chance. So you're looking at a 25% chance of tipping everyone off that you're scum and a 75% chance of maybe gaining a bit of town credit with a gambit. Is that a good trade-off? No. That's what I meant when I said that's a pretty ballsy gambit for scum. Therefore, Iso is town.

Of course, maybe he figured he could pass that first post off as a joke if the roles actually were blue, but I really doubt it.

sheesh this sure is a mental game, isn't it. So doing a scummy thing poorly makes someone more townish? I'm not sure I buy that.

Yes. What scummy thing did Iso do poorly?

That yes was referring to the "mental game" question, not to the second question.

What scummy thing did Iso do poorly?

The way I read your explanation of Iso's role color play was that it was so scummy that it had to be town. Not sure how that makes sense.

Ah, right. I only explained why it's not scummy, not why it's townie. Maybe you can tell me. What motivation would townIso have for posting something like that?

I kind of want to go along with Iso and Stardust and put some pressure on checkbox to start this game going, however I don't really want toacccedentally lynch a townie for not a great reason like that