Dies to Removal

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:58 pm**

Fleecemane Lion

Creature - Cat

: Monstrosity 1. (If this creature isn't monstrous, put a +1/+1 counter on it and it becomes monstrous.)

As long as Fleecemane Lion is monstrous, it has hexproof and indestructible.

3/3

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:05 pm**

Good card is real good.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:39 pm**

it's fine. khalonian tusker is nothing to lose sleep over. you can argue wg is a better cost than gg and that the upside would make it worth taking a second look at, but flithoof boar was usually the card people wanted to cut most from their green-based aggro decks, and that guy had haste.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:44 pm**

seems fine.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:47 pm**

it's fine. khalonian tusker is nothing to lose sleep over. you can argue wg is a better cost than gg and that the upside would make it worth taking a second look at, but flithoof boar was usually the card people wanted to cut most from their green-based aggro decks, and that guy had haste.

Boar was a 3/3 with potential Haste in Red based Aggro and no one wanted to cut that.

In Green based Aggro it was commonly no better than a Grizzly Bear - that's why people didn't like it as much.

3/3s for 2 are generally pretty good - 3/3s for 2 with a bonus almost always see play.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:51 pm**

I don't know if you noticed this but this card isn't red and doesn't fit in red decks and still doesn't have haste and occupies 98% of the same design space as a card that currently sees 0 constructed play.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:59 pm**

I didn't say it was red, I said that you comparing this to a Flinthoof Boar in a Green Aggro deck is stupid. Flinthoof Boar wasn't played in Green Aggro because it sucks there - it was played in Red Aggro splashing green because it's awesome there.

Unless you want to argue that Gruul Aggro was Green based? Because all the lists I saw that did well were like 75%+ Red and, even then, they all played Flinthoof Boar.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:17 pm**

Thrilly hates the redbros.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:23 pm**

He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO!

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:54 pm**

Watchwolf bettered

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:55 pm**

I loved watch wolf

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:07 pm**

Watchwolf bettered

That's exactly what I thought.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:11 pm**

3/3s for 2 are generally pretty good - 3/3s for 2 with a bonus almost always see play.

This being said, I should clarify that while I do like the card and think it's good enough to see play, I don't imagine it'll actually get a whole lot of (or really any) competitive play until after Voice and Ooze rotate - assuming nothing better gets printed in the mean time.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:13 pm**

He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO!

>discussing GW card
>talking about red aggro
You hit the nail on the head.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:18 pm**

Thrilly hates the redbros.
He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO!

He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO!
>discussing GW card
>talking about red aggro
You hit the nail on the head.

Follow the conversation?

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:21 pm**

Man, this guy is going to make so many people ragesmash their computers while drafting online. /ignoring drama

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:27 pm**

Thrilly hates the redbros.
He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO!

He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO!
>discussing GW card
>talking about red aggro
You hit the nail on the head.
Follow the conversation?

My first post in the thread was discussing how a
vanilla 3/3 in green-based decks is everyone's least favorite card in those decks so this card is probably mediocre, which was followed by redthirst launching into a dialog about something I wasn't talking about (red decks). So, no, I wouldn't say you've been following this discussion.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:29 pm**

Thrilly hates the redbros.
He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO!

He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO!
>discussing GW card
>talking about red aggro
nYou hit the nail on the head.
Follow the conversation?
My first post in the thread was discussing how a vanilla 3/3 in green-based decks is everyone's least favorite card in those decks so this card is probably mediocre, which was followed by redthirst launching into a dialog about something I wasn't talking about (red decks). So, no, I wouldn't say you've been following this discussion.

It was actually me correcting you since there hasn't been a green-based Aggro deck all season that played Flinthoof Boar.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:30 pm**

3/3s for 2 are generally pretty good - 3/3s for 2 with a bonus almost always see play.
This being said, I should clarify that while I do like the card and think it's good enough to see play, I don't imagine it'll actually get a whole lot of (or really any) competitive play
until after Voice and Ooze rotate - assuming nothing better gets printed in the mean time.
So you were literally just arguing with me to hear yourself talk. Thanks for your valuable input.

There's a difference between a card being bad and being not good enough to see play until something better rotates.

I never said the card was bad and even went so far as to compare it to a card that saw considerable play in green aggro decks while cautioning that the card I was comparing it with wasn't the best card in that deck and that haste is a good ability that this card doesn't have.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:33 pm**

Your comparison is wrong, though. Flinthoof boar saw real play in one deck: Gruul Aggro - which isn't green-based and has never been successful without Flinthoof Boar.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:34 pm**

Thrilly hates the redbros.
He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO!

He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO!
>discussing GW card
>talking about red aggro
You hit the nail on the head.
Follow the conversation?
My first post in the thread was discussing how a vanilla 3/3 in green-based decks is everyone's least favorite card in those decks so this card is probably mediocre, which was followed by redthirst launching into a dialog about something I wasn't talking about (red decks). So, no, I wouldn't say you've been following this discussion.
It was actually me correcting you since there hasn't been a green-based Aggro deck all season that played Flinthoof Boar.

There were several iterations of Naya that definitely played more green cards than cards of other colors in essentially all builds, other than the Humans one, that have persisted in Standard since Gatecrash and only tapered off after Burning Earth
was printed, but please continue being wrong and correcting me with false information.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:38 pm**

Thrilly hates the redbros.
He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO![/quote:
1zwexasw]

He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO!
>discussing GW card
>talking about red aggro
You hit the nail on the head.
Follow the conversation?
My first post in the thread was discussing how a vanilla 3/3 in green-based decks is everyone's least favorite card in those decks so this card is probably mediocre, which was followed by redthirst launching into a dialog about something I wasn't talking about (red decks). So, no, I wouldn't say you've been following this discussion.
It was actually me correcting you since there hasn't been a green-based Aggro deck all season that played Flinthoof Boar.
There were several iterations of Naya that definitely played more green cards than
cards of other colors in essentially all builds, other than the Humans one, that have persisted in Standard since Gatecrash and only tapered off after Burning Earth was printed, but please continue being wrong and correcting me with false information.
Got some examples? Because the Naya decks I remember really enjoying success for a while were Human based and they pretty well dropped off the grid before Burning Earth was printed.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:46 pm**

um, YOLO?

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:40 pm**

this is another good card

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:49 pm**

It wont replace watchwolf if thats played

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:59 pm**

He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO!
>discussing GW card
>talking about red aggro
You hit the nail on the head.

different logic Kijin . You should already know

about card: I actually see RT's logic on this one , but will it replace G/W Bears as main staple, I have my doubts.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:12 pm**

Meh, the line of argumentation is valid. This guy does seem to be crying out for a GWx aggressive midrange build, and GWR would give you an opportunity to have that magical christmasland moment of sitting on 5 mana, waiting for them to try to kill it off, but when they don't do anything you can still proactively aim burn at their board during the end-step.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:17 pm**

Meh, the line of argumentation is valid. This guy does seem to be crying out for a GWx aggressive midrange build, and GWR would give you an opportunity to have that magical christmasland moment of sitting on 5 mana, waiting for them to try to kill it off, but when they don't do anything you can still proactively aim burn at their board during the end-step.

midrange decks maybe

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:09 pm**

Card has good stats and abilities but is likely mediocre. The monstrous gives it a shot at seeing play though. Typically with cards like oh...say watchwolf, in the G/w colors, you usually want to skip the 2 slot on your cuve and jump straight to three so the vanilla two-drop is pretty unexciting. When it has a built in manasink ability however, it starts getting interesting because when you don't hit your fat, you'll have some use for those otherwise useless manadorks.

Unfortunately for this card, pillar of flame rotated making voice of resurgence a lot more resurgent and scavenging ooze is a house but in a more agro based meta or decks that just want to go big, I can see this card seeing some play over voice.

I'm also going to throw my hate in and say regardless of thrillho's right or wrongness, he has a terrible way of communicating.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:13 pm**

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=96356#p96356:2wz12obh]ExarionUniverse1 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:59 pm[/url:2wz12obh]":2wz12obh][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=96181#p96181:2wz12obh]Thrillho » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:13 am[/url:2wz12obh]":2wz12obh][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=96129#p96129:2wz12obh]Khaospawn » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:23 am[/url:2wz12obh]":2wz12obh]He's just jelly of our R/x based swag. YOLO![/quote:2wz12obh]
>discussing GW card
>talking about red aggro
You hit the nail on the head.[/quote:2wz12obh]

different logic Kijin . You should already know

about card: I actually see RT's logic on this one , but will it replace G/W Bears as main staple, I have my doubts.[/quote:2wz12obh]
we are all saying the same thing.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:24 pm**

to answer your question about naya, there has for months prior to the release of burning earth -- and with occasional points after the fact -- been a midrange naya deck that has included flinthoof boar among its ranks and the gruul deck brian kibler played at worlds is mostly split between green and red cards.

Posted: **Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:46 am**

I'd say that this card is really, really good.
But you know what Redthirst wants to tell you?
GW Aggro even while getting all the powerlevel spikers, have never won anything.

So okay, my 1CMC drops are Experiment One (I guess one of the best 1CMC green creatures ever - just after Nacatl and mana dork with exalted) and mana dork.
My 2CMC drops are VOICE OF RESURGENCE and this guy.
My 3CMC drop is either 4/4 for 3 or 3/3 and 3 life for 3.
And then at 4CMC I can do EOT 5/5 Trample.
I still can't win shit.

And I guess that is what Thirst meant.
GW decks always amaze us with powerlevel of cards they are playing but they never achieved anything. They are like old RDWs. Relevant in meta, but never amongst the winner. Benchmarks of the format telling you which decks are playable, which decks are not.
Also, there's a lot of sand in your vagina I guess.

Posted: **Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:41 am**

I'd say that this card is really, really good.
But you know what Redthirst wants to tell you?
GW Aggro even while getting all the powerlevel spikers, have never won anything.

So okay, my 1CMC drops are Experiment One (I guess one of the best 1CMC green creatures ever - just after Nacatl and mana dork with exalted) and mana dork.
My 2CMC drops are VOICE OF RESURGENCE and this guy.
My 3CMC drop is either 4/4 for 3 or 3/3 and 3 life for 3.
And then at 4CMC I can do EOT 5/5 Trample.
I still can't win shit.

And I guess that is what Thirst meant.
GW decks always amaze us with powerlevel of cards they are playing but they never achieved anything. They are like old RDWs. Relevant in meta, but never amongst the winner. Benchmarks of the format telling you
which decks are playable, which decks are not.
Also, there's a lot of sand in your vagina I guess.

Sorry comrade I disagree with you and RT on one account . Well two

First of all , being from Eastern Europe as myself , you should be aware of the GP Warsaw results of 2009, and that even osyp tested GW and got moderate results.

Second: on RT , I understand his logic , but why risk so much for synergy with the main cards like mana dork?

Posted: **Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:41 am**

First of all , being from Eastern Europe as myself , you should be aware of the GP Warsaw results of 2009, and that even osyp tested GW and got moderate results.

Sorry. It also reminded me of Juza Tokens which were a blast for a while.
But most of these decks relied on synergies.
Current GW has incredible value strapped onto single cards, but they don't create gameplan.
So you are just asking me about removal.
Does Red ask you for removal? Nope. It has the gameplan. You deal with one dude, other dudes kill you.
Does Control ask you for removal? Nope. They can counter it or dig hard enough to get another threat running.
Does good Midrange ask you for removal? Nope. Just look at Jund. They have multiple THREATS, not 3/3 guys that one day will kill you.
I'm not talking about shitty combos like Souldbond Doublestrike guy had. I'm asking for actual synergies and ensurance that you can
generate damage.
Current GW doesn't seem to have that. They only have flashy 2/2 and 3/3.
Nobody gives a fuck about 2/2s. 3/3s suck for Aggro.
GW cards usually don't bring any kind of value. Smiter is the big guy. Okay. This guy is also the big guy. Voice of Resurgence actually does, that's why playset costs my monthly payment (unless it dropped).

Posted: **Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:52 pm**

well it might only be a mediocre card. However monstrosity + unflinching courage = end game.

Posted: **Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:37 pm**

First of all , being from Eastern Europe as myself , you should be aware of the GP Warsaw results of 2009, and that even osyp tested GW and got moderate results.
I'm not talking about shitty combos like Souldbond Doublestrike guy had. I'm asking for actual synergies and ensurance that you can generate damage.

But I loved my Lightning Mauler + Silverblade Paladin combo in my old Boros Humans deck. It was so fun to swing for 11 on turn 3 when I had Champion of the Parish or Boros Elite
acting as a third wheel to the married couple

About Fleecemane, I think it's a decent card but waaay over hyped. It is not worth $8.60. It's a friggen Kalonian Tusker for harder to cast mana until you can pay its monstrosity. If this card were $2 to $4, sure, that'd be about fair to me. Sure, if it's monstrosity activates it becomes one of hell of a bitch to get rid of, but if you play it on curve it's a Tusker. If you play it when you have 5 mana, it's a do nothing 5 drop. If you play it at 7 mana, you can get it running instantly, but it still lacks evasion or reach. All this card says is, "Kill me before I have 5 mana open." Which might be worth something.

Dies to Removal

[THS] Fleecemane Lion

[THS] Fleecemane Lion