Dies to Removal

This was a list posted on the mothership a few weeks back, and it looks fine for shitty local tournaments.

[deck]Mono-R[/deck]

Suggestions? Thoughts? Sideboard Cards? Burning Earth is probably a 4-of there

Honestly, looking at that deck, it seems confused. Kinda sort wants to be a burn deck and it kinda sort of wants to be an aggro deck. I personally the aggro creature mono-red lists. However, I have an idea for a more spell based one. I'll post that one second.


Mono-Red Creature Aggro
[deck]
Creatures (34)
Stromkirk Noble x4
Rakdos Cackler x4
Legion Loyalist x2
Ash Zealot x4
Burning-Tree Emissary x4
Lightning Mauler x4
Firefist Striker x4
Pyreheart Wolf x4
Hellrider x4

Spells (4)
Searing Spear x4

Land (22)
Mountain x18
[card]Mutavault[/
card] x4

Sideboard (15)
Pillar of Flame x4
Burning Earth x3
Boros Reckoner x4
Legion Loyalist x2
Flames of the Firebrand x2
[/deck]

The FoS guys can probably give you a better list than this, but this is what came to me. Firefist Striker and Pyreheart Wolf would probably be enough to keep pushing through damage whenever you need. 10 1 drops for a turn 1 play, a bunch of 2 drops to chain off BTE (Ash Zealot doesn't, but she's probably worth it. If you don't like that bit of inconsistency replace her with Gore-House Chainwalker). Hellrider does what Hellrideralways does.

Pillar of Flame for [card]Voice of
Resurgence[/card], other aggro decks, etc. I'm not sure if Boros Reckoner is actually needed here but he's a good card, a solid wall, and a pain to deal with. I don't think [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] is good because this deck is running 4 burn spells and is more focused on BTE chains than burn. 2 extra Legion Loyalists when going against token decks. Other cards to consider would be Brimstone Volley, Volcanic Strength, and Skullcrackfor the sideboard.

Mono-Red Spells
[deck]
Creatures (12)
Young Pyromancer x4
Guttersnipe x4
[card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] x4

Spells (23)
Pillar of Flame x4
Shock x2
[card]Searing Spear[/card:
2xicwa5q] x4
Mizzium Mortars x2
Skullcrack x2
Brimstone Volley x3
Bonfire of the Damned x2
Faithless Looting x4

Planeswalkers (3)
Chandra, Pyromaster x3

Land (22)
Mountain x18
Mutavault x4

Sideboard (15)
Burning Earth x4
Skullcrack x2
Brimstone Volley x1
Flames of the Firebrand x4
Boros Reckoner x4
[/deck]

Again, FoS guys could probably come up with something better, but the idea is to play creatures that give you extra value out of having a million burn spells. I have 4 of Pillar of Flame and Searing Spear because they're
the best two burn spells in my opinion. A couple extra Shockwhen playing against Blitz decks to take out their Champion of the Parish. All of the 2 of spells are good to have, but have some draw back. Mizzium Mortars can't attack players, Skullcrackcan't target creatures, and Bonfire of the Damned is a great draw but horrible to have in the opening hand. Faithless Looting is probably the worst card in there, but I wanted to put in something that will help dig into the deck and get rid of excess lands or non-relevant spells. Young Pyromancer and Guttersnipecan get some extra value out of the card by giving 1/1 tokens and 2 damage.

I was thinking Chandra, Pyromaster x3 because you only want to see her once per game and having
excess Chandras doesn't really do too much. She comes into play, pings once, and then uses her +0 for the rest of her stay.

I like the mothership list a lot more than either of the lists you posted.

I'd run the Mothership list without Vexing Devil and Cackler, putting in Pillar of Flame and Boros Reckoner.

Cutting 4 creatures from the 16 creature Mono-Red deck?

If it were a real metagame with things like Voice of Resurgence, I could see that, perhaps.

Cutting 4 creatures from the 16 creature Mono-Red deck?

Vexing Devil isn't a creature.

Not even a card.

Vexing Devil > Stromkirk Noble...

Card > Vexing Devil ...

Vexing Devil > Stromkirk Noble...

This is absolutely not true. Have you read any of the literature on this website? Stromkirk Noble applies pressure while also (usually) trading with a card from their hand. Vexing Devil is only decent in three decks: (1) Turbo Gruul with Experiment One, (2) Burn, (3) Jund Varolz.

When does Stromkirk Noble actually deal 4 damage?

That's what I thought.

Not to mention, one of these cards is an $8 rare, and one is a $1.50 rare.

Also, how does a 1/1 apply pressure?!

When does Stromkirk Noble actually deal 4 damage?

That's what I thought.

He almost always deals 3 or 6 damage. He also eats a card out of their hand or trades with a creature. I'd play (R): lightning bolt + target player discards a card, over (R): char, any day of the week.

Not to mention, one of these cards is an $8 rare, and one is a $1.50 rare.

Because Vexing Devil's a rarer rare than Stromkirk Noble, it's played in Modern Gruul Zoo, has potential in Legacy/Modern Burn, and is a Timmy card for EDH.

Also, how does a 1/1 apply pressure?!

Vexing Devil's a 0/0 that deals 4 damage when he ETBs. 1/1 >> 0/0 as far as pressure application is
concerned.

"almost always"

2/2's exist in MTG, btw.

Vexing Devil is only slightly rarer... Remember that Avacyn Restored was a large set as well, and was triple drafted for an entire season. Innistrad got two seasons, sure, but that's not quite enough to make up for that large a difference in price. Nice try though.

Vexing Devil is not always a 4 to the facd btw. Even if he was, I'd rather have that over the 1/1 who does nothing against any 2/2 in the format, of which I hear there are many.

Some decks even play 2 on turn 2!

Vexing Devil's ETB affect is it lets your opponent cast dismember from outside of the game.

"almost always"

2/2's exist in MTG, btw.

Vexing Devil is only slightly rarer... Remember that Avacyn Restored was a large set as well, and was triple drafted for an entire season. Innistrad got two seasons, sure, but that's not quite enough to make up for that large a difference in price. Nice try though.

Vexing Devil is not always a 4 to the facd btw. Even if he was, I'd rather have that over the 1/1 who does nothing against any 2/2 in the format, of which I hear there are many.

Dear lord. Count the placing lists with Stromkirk Noble; count the placing lists with Vexing
Devil. Profit.

Name a 2/2 that's played and is not a human...

Flinthoof Boar

Voice of Resurgence

A Young Wolf that has already Undyed.

Varolz, the Scar-Striped

Augur of Bolas

Bye.

Vexing Devil is terrible in standard. It's embarrassing that you're arguing this, given the enormous weight of evidence in favour of Stromkirk Noble.

You will never win an argument for Vexing Devil. NEVER.

Clearly.

For your pleasure.

Vexing Devil
What this card does and what is it's purpose?
Actually that's the biggest problem of Vexing Devil. It's function depends solely on opponent's choice. Usually he will be burn spell during first few turns.

He will be a creature if:
- my opponent has wrath card in his hand
- my opponent already gained enough of life to easily pay 4 life to be sure that I don't have another/any creature on the field.
- my opponent has point-removal to spare and considers Devil to be an actual threat
- my opponent is very close to burn range and will rely on his topdeck to answer Devil

As you can see, he will become a creature mostly in scenarios when he's not needed to be one. But due to his devilish nature, I will consider him as a marriage of Bump in the Night and Rakdos Cackler.

Do I know any similiar card, which is straight-up better?
Depends on what you expect
from a card of yours. If you expect him to be creature card, Rakdos Cackler is much better. With Control not playing Terminus that much anymore - Rakdos Cackler's life span usually lasts 3 turns. During this time, he deals 0-6 damage depending on being blocked or not. Cackler additionaly requires my opponent to spend cards as his resources to stop/actually deal with him.
I will risk with this sentence, but Vexing Devil has potential to deal 0-4 damage. Why? Because if my opponent has answer for him, he will just let him stay on the field. If my opponent doesn't have answer, he will just pay 4 life - without loosing any cards in his hand to deal with him.

His powerlevel in terms of his "burn" mode is slightly higher than this of Searing Spear and Thunderbolt. The issue is, we're still talking about issue of reliability. It's upside is difference of 1 point of damage. It doesn't really sound exciting compared to it's downside of being wrath'd together with other creatures.

We've proved
Vexing Devil is bad in terms of both being a creature and burn spell. Does he have anything he is good at?
Tempo.
This guy increases the tempo of your deck pretty hard. If you are willing to play a game of MTG when you sacrifice your early game drops (Vexing Devil isn't a DROP) just to be sure that your opponent starts at lower life - he is good at this thing. That is why I think that he belongs to dedicated Burn deck. I have little to no knowledge about Legacy, but I've heard he is DECENT there. Not amazing, just decent. He serves his purpose.
Overall prediction is: if we'd play a format with access to high-quality burn spells while lifegain would not be popular - Vexing Devil would be a nice part of this deck.
Is that possible now in Standard? I don't think so.

What sort of synergies this card has?
I think that it has been proved to be synergistic with only two cards. Brimstone Volley and Lightning Mauler. So, he is an enabler of one "combo" which bases upon your opponent actually
deciding that at T4 he will pay 4 life for you to sacrifice Vexing Devil. It's actually not that bad combo... as long as you will not realise that Brimstone Volley stopped being reliable and strong card in this format. Basically format evolved into more stable one, where dealing 10 damage with sacrificing 2 cards and relying on opponent's choice isn't the best thing we could ever think about. And I don't think that actual matchups were the biggest issue here. Most of decks just started to ask very inconvenient questions. You are actually required to be interactive!
Second "combo" bases on forcing opponent to actually make you sacrifice your Vexing Devil by threatening him with fact, that he will have Haste now. It's a decent enabler which was proved to be fine in decks where someone actually played Devil.

I've didn't mentioned that before, but in this section - it's actually really good idea to discuss "Nonbos". Situations where certain card actually doesn't fit gameplan of
your deck. Vexing Devil is one of the most shining examples here.

Due to it's unreliable nature, Vexing Devil is a burn spell which has to be considered a creature and should stay in creature slot. This makes him unsynergistic with cards which have been already proved to be great cards in any Rx deck - Hellrider and Stonewright. Additionaly, I'd also never actually put him in a deck where I'd consider Cathedral of War (even if that's not important for most people). Basically he doesn't allows you to run cards relying on combat phase.

How this card fits into metagame?
Most of Red decks at the moment are far away from burnish approach, they rely on creatures as engines of dealing damage. It was mentioned many times - but we've learned to deal more than 20 damage every game.
Currently decks with large amounts of lifegain are in decline - yet we need to consider them to be a part of our meta. Not to mention that current format Contender (UW Flash) has actually access to Sphinx's Revelation and
counterspells which can hit our crucial burn spells. It's pretty difficult to create a deck which relies on casting spell after spell in this format.

Game scenarios with Vexing Devil
I will assume that I'll play against UW Control. No god-draw from me.

Turn 1: Mountain, Vexing Devil. My opponent chooses loosing 4 life. My opponent plays Shockland, tapped.
Turn 2: Mountain, Ash Zealot. Swing for 2. My opponent plays Augur of Bolas.
Turn 3: Hellion Crucible, Gore-House Chainwalker. My opponent plays EOT Think Twice.
Turn 4: No land drop. Swing for 2 (Augur blocks Chainwalker). My opponent wraths the board.
I've dealt 4 + 2 + 2 damage. That's 8.

Let's see a scenario where I have Rakdos Cackler instead of Devil.
Turn 1: Mountain, Rakdos Cackler. He plays tapped shockland.
Turn 2: Mountain, Ash Zealot. Swing for 4. He plays Augur of Bolas.
Turn 3: Hellion Crucible, Gore-House Chainwalker. Swing for 2. My opponent plays EOT Think Twice.
Turn 4: No land drop. Swing for 4 (Augur blocks
Chainwalker) . My opponent wraths the board.
I've dealt 4 + 2 + 4 = 10 damage.
And that's pretty positive scenario for Vexing Devil. Add up T4 land drop and Hellrider? That's another point of damage difference. Add T2 Stonewright instead of Ash Zealot? We get in for 3 damage.

Oh, let's talk about ridicolous scenario now, ok?
T1 Vexing Devil into T2 Vexing, Vexing.
For 3 cards and incredible tempo loss we've dealt 12 damage.
T1 Rakdos Cackler into T2 Cackler, Cackler.
2 damage on Turn 2. 6 Damage on Turn 3 and Turn 4 if left unblocked.

Obviously it sounds far less amazing, right? Still, remember that with Rakdos Cacklers you are forcing your opponent to dig for solutions while Vexing Devils are playing non-interaction game of "you start at 8 life, I've started with 4 cards and you get 2 turns to stabilize".

I hope that will help in the future discussions about Vexing Devils. As overall, I don't consider him to be that much viable card. With Bant Control being nearly dead, he
gained a bit of value - but I still don't think he can beat reliable 2/2 for 1 mana.
If I'd look for a way of increasing speed of my Goldfish at any cost - I would probably take a look at him. Otherwise, nope. (umm, maybe.. he's sort of cool flavor-wise)