[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Lightning_Dolt]

Thanks Johnny. That Midrange Red Deck is VERY appealing to me personally, i love decks with that sort of card quality (no dip in quality of draw as the game goes on).

No worries. Can't find day one standings / results on scg. Anyone know how PSully did? I think he was playing burn in legacy. He was 2-0 in standard when he did his deck tech. I have a man crush on him.

[zemanjaski]

You and everyone else sir.

[Lightning_Dolt]

You and everyone else sir.

The patron saint of FoS.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Finished my testing for this weekend, by which I mean "confirmed I own the 150 cards in question, plus purchased sleeves."

9:26am - 25 Jul 13

Patrick Sullivan BasicMountain @ Follow

[zemanjaski]

I think the points he makes about needing an aggressive 1 drop; needing good mana; needing to impact the board and be proactive are all good points that are worth understanding if you're a developing red mage.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I think the points he makes about needing an aggressive 1 drop; needing good mana; needing to impact the board and be proactive are all good points that are worth understanding if you're a developing red mage.

Found the standings. He's 81st with 15 points which means he's 5-3 across standard and legacy.

Top 96 / 15+ points make day two, so he's in.

[Platypus]

Gruul players will probably make the shift to mono-red. Three colour decks will try to cut to two colours or start playing main deck cards that can kill burning earth (think acidic slime, oblivion ring etc.). UWR will likely revert to UW. My guess is that the top tier decks will be Jund, Junk Rites, U/W flash, and RDW. Tier two decks will be white weenie, mono black control, gw aggro,bant hexproof, naya blitz and both flavors of aristocrats

Thanks! Yeah, Gruul players going towards mono red, I'm definitely one of those. The current decks are basically red already, and Mutavaults will be an important part of future aggro decks and can't see those in the current Gruul decks at all. It would mess too much with the mana base, I think. As for the
rest, sounds plausible. But you don't think Junk Rites will suffer a bit from Scavening Ooze?

[zemanjaski]

Cool. If he is playing Burn in legacy at the moment, that's AMBITIOUS. I wouldn't touch that deck if you paid me right now.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Cool. If he is playing Burn in legacy at the moment, that's AMBITIOUS. I wouldn't touch that deck if you paid me right now.

He mentioned 8 mountains in his legacy deck. I think it's probably burn.

Why do you think burn is bad in legacy right now? I admitidly don't play much legacy, but it hasn't lost anything that I'm aware of.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Gruul players will probably make the shift to mono-red. Three colour decks will try to cut to two colours or start playing main deck cards that can kill burning earth (think acidic slime, oblivion ring etc.). UWR will likely revert to UW. My guess is that the top tier decks will be Jund, Junk Rites, U/W flash, and RDW. Tier two decks will be white weenie, mono black control, gw aggro,bant hexproof, naya blitz and both flavors of aristocrats

Thanks! Yeah, Gruul players going towards mono red, I'm definitely one of those. The current decks are basically red already, and Mutavaults
will be an important part of future aggro decks and can't see those in the current Gruul decks at all. It would mess too much too much with the mana base, I think. As for the rest, sounds plausible. But you don't think Junk Rites will suffer a bit from Scavening Ooze?

BBD was 4-0 in standard with junk rights. Wins over Brad Nelson and Gerry Thompson. So yeah, it's still good.

[Platypus]

Ok, well it's usual that cards that looks like a great hate card on paper don't do enough in practice.

[zemanjaski]

Cool. If he is playing Burn in legacy at the moment, that's AMBITIOUS. I wouldn't touch that deck if you paid me right now.

He mentioned 8 mountains in his legacy deck. I think it's probably burn.

Why do you think burn is bad in legacy right now? I admitidly don't play much legacy, but it hasn't lost anything that I'm aware of.

It isn't want Burn lost, it is what other decks have gained. Burn's previous best card was Sulphuric Vortex, but now Abrupt Decay is EVERYWHERE. Also, there is more combo than fair decks at the moment, and those are bad
matchups for Burn.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Cool. If he is playing Burn in legacy at the moment, that's AMBITIOUS. I wouldn't touch that deck if you paid me right now.

He mentioned 8 mountains in his legacy deck. I think it's probably burn.

Why do you think burn is bad in legacy right now? I admitidly don't play much legacy, but it hasn't lost anything that I'm aware of.

It isn't want Burn lost, it is what other decks have
gained. Burn's previous best card was Sulphuric Vortex, but now Abrupt Decay is EVERYWHERE. Also, there is more combo than fair decks at the moment, and those are bad matchups for Burn.

Maybe that's why he's 5-3.

Everytime I finish a legacy deck it becomes irrelevant. Please don't tell me that's the case with burn. I won't build another legacy deck.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah it's been pretty irrelevant for a while lol. Burn was never, ever Tier 1 anyway.

[Platypus]

Everytime I finish a legacy deck it becomes irrelevant. Please don't tell me that's the case with burn. I won't build another legacy deck.

If I get Mutavaults, my Legacy Sliver deck will be just about finished (dual lands/fetches are wonky though). That deck hasn't been relevant in years (if ever...).

[Lightning_Dolt]

Yeah it's been pretty irrelevant for a while lol. Burn was never, ever Tier 1 anyway.

Do I finish foiling it out and say "fuck the meta, tap mountains", or sell it all?

I really hate how a new cards can make your thousand dollar legacy deck irrelevant (although my mostly foiled burn deck isn't worth as much as Eva Green was).

It just makes me hate legacy all the more. Everyone pretends that you buy the deck once and
you're finnished, but that isn't tye case. New cards still shake the meta up and ruin everything.

Maybe just put in Young Pyromancer

[Lightning_Dolt]

What should I play at the GPT tomorrow? The list I've been testing (in the mono red thread) or PSully's list? Opinions? Z? Platypus?

[zemanjaski]

play what you know. I can't play the deck for you.

[Lightning_Dolt]

play what you know. I can't play the deck for you.

So you think you should play the deck you know over teh new hotness?

[Platypus]

If you have a deck you know really well, then you will probably do better with it than the latest deck you haven't played with, even if the new deck is slightly better. If the new deck is a lot better, then that's probably a better choice though.

But when it comes to the current decks, I can't give any solid advice since I haven't played since early June, and haven't done any testing after M14. But I'm leaning towards the current KDW version right now for Game Day. I really like the look of that one, both the maindeck and sideboard. It's close to my Gruul aggro deck as well, so I'll probably do better with it than with an AIR variant.

[Alex]

What should I play at the GPT tomorrow? The list I've been testing (in the mono red thread) or PSully's list? Opinions? Z? Platypus?

I would pitch the deck but that's coming from someone who only plays Legacy decks with Jace or Umezawa's Jitte in them.

That being said, what's your budget like?

[zemanjaski]

It doesn't make sense that the options you give me are:
1) play a deck you have had recent success with and understand
2) tell you to play a deck you have not played, I have not played and has had an uncertain level of success at an as of yet unconcluded event.

You're a smart guy, you tell me how much sense that line of questioning makes.

[Lightning_Dolt]

What should I play at the GPT tomorrow? The list I've been testing (in the mono red thread) or PSully's list? Opinions? Z? Platypus?

I would pitch the deck but that's coming from someone who only plays Legacy decks with Jace or Umezawa's Jitte in them.

That being said, what's your budget like?

If I pitch legacy burn, I'm not playing legacy anymore. Format is too expensive / much more changing than people let on / not supported enough.

[Lightning_Dolt]

It doesn't make sense that the options you give me are:
1) play a deck you have had recent success with and understand
2) tell you to play a deck you have not played, I have not played and has had an uncertain level of success at an as of yet unconcluded event.

You're a smart guy, you tell me how much sense that line of questioning makes.

Fair enough. I'm on the fence and just looking for opinions.

Most of what PSully said about dodging pillars makes sense to me. He's trying to go under midrange, whereas I tend to go through / over. I think I'll stick with my current build based on not having time to test the new build and the posibility that my deck is better positioned within the local meta.

[Alex]

What should I play at the GPT tomorrow? The list I've been testing (in the mono red thread) or PSully's list? Opinions? Z? Platypus?

I would pitch the deck but that's coming from someone who only plays Legacy decks with Jace or Umezawa's Jitte in them.

That being said, what's your budget like?

If I pitch legacy burn, I'm not playing legacy anymore. Format is too expensive / much more changing than
people let on / not supported enough.

I don't know, this is what I've been playing and it wasn't horribly difficult to assemble/learn?

[deck]Punishing Fire makes people rage[/deck]

A good portion of the "meat" of this deck are also Modern staples. *Shrug.*

[Lightning_Dolt]

What should I play at the GPT tomorrow? The list I've been testing (in the mono red thread) or PSully's list? Opinions? Z? Platypus?

I would pitch the deck but that's coming from someone who only plays Legacy decks with Jace or Umezawa's Jitte in them.

That
being said, what's your budget like?

If I pitch legacy burn, I'm not playing legacy anymore. Format is too expensive / much more changing than people let on / not supported enough.

I don't know, this is what I've been playing and it wasn't horribly difficult to assemble/learn?

[deck]Punishing Fire makes people rage[/deck]

A good portion of the "meat" of this deck are also Modern
staples. *Shrug.*

About $1700 in cards I don't own. Not going there again.

[Alex]

I mean, I don't know. Last time I played Legacy, I played against a Burning-Tree Emissary Gruul list. So there's that...

Burning-Tree Emissary into Umezawa's Jitte is some brutal beats.

I'm sure there's likely also a version of Maverick floating around right now that could be built with 90%+ Modern cards.

[Platypus]

What should I play at the GPT tomorrow? The list I've been testing (in the mono red thread) or PSully's list? Opinions? Z? Platypus?

I would pitch the deck but that's coming from someone who only plays Legacy decks with Jace or Umezawa's Jitte in them.

That being said, what's your budget like?

If I pitch legacy burn, I'm not playing legacy anymore. Format is too expensive / much more changing than
people let on / not supported enough.

I say keep the deck. Looks like you're in a similar situation as me when it comes to Legacy.I know that Legacy Burn isn't tier 1, maybe tier 1.5 on a good day. But Legacy tournaments are few and far between around here, so there's no point in spending any more than I've done so far unless the cards are usable in Modern. I'll get a few Flame Rifts at some point, but that's it. So I'll gladly take the deck to any eventual Legacy tournaments anyway, since it's still a deck and it's still fun Magic. And based on my one and only Legacy tournament, everybody fears Price of Progress.

[Alex]

Oh look I already found said Maverick list that WON a Legacy open a month ago that is primarily Modern cards: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=56773

[Alex]

PS: Modern adaptations to cards in that list:

Swords to Plowshares -> Path to Exile or Oust.
A/B duals -> Shocks.

At that point I think the only non-Modern card worth more than a buck is Mother of Runes? What are those like 5 bucks?

Legacy isn't as unreasonable as it used to be. Thanks to Modern being a format, a lot of tuning is being done to those decks, and that's creeping over into Legacy because the power level of Modern and Legacy decks are pretty similar.

[Platypus]

PS: Modern adaptations to cards in that list:

Swords to Plowshares -> Path to Exile or Oust.
A/B duals -> Shocks.

At that point I think the only non-Modern card worth more than a buck is Mother of Runes?

Ahem...Karakas and Maze of Ith. But those two are perhaps not essential.

Edit: And the Wastelands...

[Alex]

PS: Modern adaptations to cards in that list:

Swords to Plowshares -> Path to Exile or Oust.
A/B duals -> Shocks.

At that point I think the only non-Modern card worth more than a buck is Mother of Runes?

Ahem...Karakas and Maze of Ith. But those two are perhaps not essential.

They're not really essential. They're more or less just more tools for Knight of the Reliquary to play around with. They could be any utility land.

The deck doesn't NEED Wastelands either, although if
he's playing Legacy burn he probably already has Wastelands.

[dpaine88]

OMG Burning Earth is amazing, seriously 4-of in the board. Just won FNM and beat down Jund 2x, and UWR games 2 and 3 on the back of Burning Earth.

Mutavault was also friggen amazing..

Oh baby,It's a good time to be a red mage!!!

Was running the SCG Mono-Red list posted a few pages back, of course with a few modifications by Zeman

Anyone else get to try out some goodies from M14 this weekend?

You must have got lucky. Not like I have any idea what I am talking about. Cedric Phillips basically says
everything I champion is wrong, so you should listen to him.

Seriously, well done though.

Fuck Cedric Phillips, dude is annoying as hell.

[dpaine88]

PTQ Time for me and Rcwraspy!!! I'm going Mono-Red he's bringing public enemy numba 1!!! Jund midrange!!!

Goodluck to my fellow flames grindng their SCG/PTQ/TCG 5k's today!

[Lightning_Dolt]

PTQ Time for me and Rcwraspy!!! I'm going Mono-Red he's bringing public enemy numba 1!!! Jund midrange!!!

Goodluck to my fellow flames grindng their SCG/PTQ/TCG 5k's today!

Good luck man! Let us know how it goes.

[Platypus]

The deck doesn't NEED Wastelands either, although if he's playing Legacy burn he probably already has Wastelands.

Not necessarily, as pretty much no Legacy Burn decks run Wasteland.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah, legacy burn doesn't run Wasteland.

Looking forward to M14 becoming fully available on MTGO; really excited to start testing.

[dpaine88]

I think the points he makes about needing an aggressive 1 drop; needing good mana; needing to impact the board and be proactive are all good points that are worth understanding if you're a developing red mage.

Thats what I am almost on the fence about...putting in another 1-drop.

The deck is really full on 2 drops

BTE
Ash Zealot
FireFist Striker
Lightning Mauler

I do also like Mogg Flunkies..


Ugh those last minute decisions morning of a PTQ...always drive myself nuts

[zemanjaski]

Yeah, PSully's deck only runs 12 2 drops (BTE, Firefist, Flunkies). Its pretty different to what everyone else has been doing.

[zemanjaski]

Andrew Shrout's RDW posted by Johnny is very similar to the early versions of Sledgehammer Red, but it even further eschews the early game to emphasize card quality. Looking forward to playing around with it.