Dies to Removal

Dude, you called me a grandma with CRS.

Dude, you called me a grandma with CRS.

Oh yes, that I did. Basically meaning that you'll say a bunch of stuff that makes a bit of sense, then BAM! From out of left field you make a vote that defies logic, even your own. I played a few games of Werewolf over Christmas with my family (grandma included). Not meant as an insult, just that I don't get you at all.

What about the mud slinging and the bandwagoning?

So, here's a post from Pie. In it he displays a heathy amount of what I've been calling townie rage. That's why I unvoted. His response to pressure was very townie. Would
townStardust unvote if that post changed my read?

I'm not even sure how you can read that unvote as scummy, especially since I started a new case on rezombad which would have only distracted from the Pie wagon. It was not at all clear that Pie was going to be the lynch. Here's a votecount from shortly after Pie voted himself. zemanjaski was reading him as town. freedom and Doc hadn't really said much of anything about Pie that I can recall and weren't about to vote for him until Z changed his mind and pushed them hard for a read. That's not the time for scum to jump off a wagon for town cred. Considering probably no one in this game other than me had ever heard of townie rage I could have just said, "Yep, self-vote, scum" and let you guys finish the job without drawing any attention to myself at all.

In both case Rcwraspy and G_R are big targets for nightkills. Iamopen2 could be lying thus I can't count him really toward anything beyond a voter. How would he know who is the miller to save Rcwraspy during the night?

I think the prudent vote is for Zem now, but Iamopen2 is a good vote as well. I will wait for Iamopen2 to respond before I vote for Zem.

In both case Rcwraspy and G_R are big targets for nightkills. Iamopen2 could be lying thus I can't count him really toward anything beyond a voter. How would he know who is the miller to save Rcwraspy during the night?

I think the prudent vote is for Zem now, but Iamopen2 is a good vote as well. I will wait for Iamopen2 to respond before I vote for Zem.

What does my being a miller have to do with imopen2's claim?

Lots of interaction: Wraith, rcwraspy, Stardust
Some interaction: zemanjaski (LMD), freedom
Little or no interaction: Jones (DocLawless),
hamfactorial, imopen2, G_R

He claimed saving you and sent the scum to Rezombad with bus driver ability. How would he know who is the miller to save you? Before we voted to test your miller status?

He claimed saving you and sent the scum to Rezombad with bus driver ability. How would he know who is the miller to save you? Before we voted to test your miller status?

I know you said you're avoiding the mafiascum wiki because you want to make your own reads, but please at least look up the power roles so you understand what's going on. A miller is a player who is town, but will investigate as scum to any cops who look into them (a cop is a role who, at night, can target a player and learn if they're town or scum). rcw is also unlynchable, a separate ability that means he can't be
lynched.

A bus driver switches all things that would target those two players. Anything that targeted rcw would target rezombad instead. Anything that targeted rezombad would target rcw instead. It doesn't interact with rcw's abilities at all.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but yeah, it's possible imopen is lying. The main reason why I think he probably is telling the truth is that I don't think rezombad was a very good choice for the nightkill. Left alive, one of two things would happen. 1) He's 1-shot, and I carry on going after him as I was at the end of Day 1, or 2) He's multishot and he shoots me in Day 2. Either way the mafia benefit from him staying alive.

rcw, on the other hand, was a good target for the nightkill. Relatively active, confirmed town
by his ability... so I tend to believe imopen when he says they were switched.

All that said, I have been burned before by assuming that everyone thinks like me. I strategize assuming my opponent's will be doing the same, in the same manner. That's sometimes not the case, so I end up making the wrong call. Maybe rezmo was targeted by the nightkill and scumopen2 wanted to burn his hidden flip ability so he could make an awesome bus driver claim. Dunno. With only two days to go before deadline, that's best left for Day 3 anyway.

Suga! Prod Mogadishu Jones please.

No comment on current events, imopen?
You said you wanted to lynch either hammy or zemanjaski; can you elaborate on that?
Have I come out of this smelling like roses, or are you a little scared I'm leading you off a cliff again?

Why don't you want to comment until Zem claims? I'm trying to get you to commit to a read. Why are you hesitant to do that?

So you pressured hammy. What do you think of him now?

Ugh, I'm tired of repeating myself. Your text wall is full of untruths and questions I've already answered. It doesn't even matter. Lynch me first if you guys want to. I'm 90% sure we've got this game in the bag without any further evidence.

I guess throwing up my hands completely isn't very helpful. I refuse to waste my time with you anymore, but I ought to at least point out the lies.

---

Your reasoning is additionally faulty because scum tried to kill raspy anyway* so he was already a clear target, before I pushed the test.

Irrevelant. You didn't know this when you went after rcw. Or maybe you did and just slipped. Either way.

Again, you don&#
39;t explain why it is scummy. I explained my reasoning repeatedly, which you continue to ignore (is that a scum tell?). If it is so scummy, why didn't you say anything at the time? Others did - DocLawless and Freedom both questioned me about it extensively. G_R was in on it too. But they're not scum right? It's only scum if you say so yes?

I did already explain why it's scummy. I also already answered why I didn't say anything at the time (Day 1, Z asked for my input then pushed the lynch to completion in about 4 hours). Then you go on to put words in my mouth again, based on something I've already explained (hint: everyone else followed you Day 2 after rcw full claimed).

Just like you're pushing Ham to vote for me now, going so far as to bully him. You're scum right?

Here's a lie, flat out.

That fact is SD, you made a huge error that you've refused to actually admit to. In one breath you say it is scummy for me not to follow the advice of other players; and in the next say it is scummy when I do. It cannot be both as you
claimed. What lies at the core here is you trying to control the narrative of the discourse, and I simply won't allow it. That's why you want me gone, because you don't like what questions I am asking. You're basically doing all of the bloodthirsty acts you accused me of, which is amusing in itself.

The difference is I never had you as town. Explain the bolded. You've been doing nothing Day 2.[/quote[

Nice deflection. You still refuse to engage with your own hypocrisy. You cannot tell me in one breath that I am scum for following others; then in another say I am scum for not following others.

Turning to day 2, I have spent it almost enitrely in defence of myself. Why?
- it has been the dominating narrative of the day. This is because we're the two most active posters and there are a great many posters who are passive and have been willing to watch from the sidelines.
- the holiday season completely destroyed the pacing of the game.

nI have done just as much as you have on Day 2, and at last I have asked others questions. If you're suggesting I am scum for inactivity, then you need to reconcile that with the post counts of the others, which you cannot do.

- its only scummy if I want to test rcw's claim. G_R proposed to do it again, but that's fine, as it is only scum when I do it.

Being intentionally dense and ignoring that I've repeatedly said it makes sense now that rcw has fully claimed.

Then why the fuck do you keep bringing it up as an indicator that I a scum? So now my testing of raspy wasn't scum behaviour? You're so fucking inconsistent.

- does anyone else find it strange that Stardust now considers Rez likely scum despite being the player who stated that Rez waas "95%" likely Town after the day kill? Thing is, Stardust needs Rez to be Town for her claimed "we can make a mislynch and still win" scenarios; she doesn't even mention the possibility that Rez isn't scum (which he won't be, 95% of the time). which misleads Town substantially. SD is the most experienced player and would be fully aware of how important Rez not revealing an alignment would be; yet no mention. We need to consider that Rez was Town.

Ignoring the fact that I was voting for rezombad when Day 1 ended. Also ignoring the fact that I did mention the possibility that rez isn't scum. Also ignoring the fact that I went into detail previously on rezombad's hidden flip.

Wow, here we go. You do everything but address
my concern. Everything you said is completely irrelevant. What matters is that you didn't even consider the possibility that Rez was Town when providing endgame scenario analysis to Town. You've just fucking admitted that you were aware he might be Town, so you chose not to prevent that possibility when providing your analysis.

I NEVER said that you didn't vote for him, or suspect him; all I said is that you've taken the position that he was guaranteed scum, which he clearly is not. That you're arguing about this, instead of just admitting a mistake, indicates that you're hiding something. You cannot risk the possibility of others thinking that Rez was Town because then all of a sudden your push for a mislynch on me has much more dire consequences for Town than you want me to realize.

- You've made multiples lines of argument that seek to silence or control my contributions

Bold words. Better find some quotes to back that up since as is this is just blatant smearing.[/spoiler]

Well, if we have a cop that survives the Night, we're pretty much sure to win the game if we lynch scum toDay.

How? I think
this assumes that Rezombad is dead scum, but only his scum-teammates would know that for sure. A lot of us think Rez was probably scum, but we have to operate with the math as if he were a townie so as not to screw this up. Using strong language to state otherwise seems deceptive to me.

Claim:

I am STARDUST, Survivor. My win condition is that I must survive until any other faction achieves their own win condition (mafia have parity with Town or all mafia are dead). I have a 1-shot NK ability.

Claim:

I am STARDUST, Survivor. My win condition is that I must survive until any other faction achieves their own win condition (mafia have parity with Town or all mafia are dead). I have a 1-shot NK ability.

WTF?

We lynch this, right? Not town, won't be town, doesn't help town.

vote: Zemanjaski

Claim:

I am STARDUST, Survivor. My win condition is that I must survive until any other faction achieves their own win condition (mafia have parity with Town or all mafia are dead). I have a 1-shot NK ability.

WTF?

We lynch this, right? Not town, won't be town, doesn't help town.

vote: Zemanjaski

Just be aware that for reasons that will be revealed upon my death, Stardust
is scum.

Claim:

I am STARDUST, Survivor. My win condition is that I must survive until any other faction achieves their own win condition (mafia have parity with Town or all mafia are dead). I have a 1-shot NK ability.

WTF?

We lynch this, right? Not town, won't be town,
doesn't help town.

vote: Zemanjaski

Just be aware that for reasons that will be revealed upon my death, Stardust is scum.

Oh...we will auto suspect/know this if you role town.