[Primer] Gruul Ragehammer (Old INN-RTR Standard)

[Kaitscralt]

I'm sure we could make an exception for the R/x forum since you're all friends with invested interests and histories in the decks. It's certainly not doing any harm. But I felt it should be addressed aloud that they're not the best lists available in their colors (and naturally I should discuss this in a Magic sense on how to better them, but first I thought some business needed to be conducted). We can leave them all here until other members (who currently don't exist) have a problem with it, but I don't want every sub-forum to be like this one. While not adapted from the last winning event, these lists are still pretty good, although the pet names definitely make me assume jank is hiding within, no offense.

Anyways, no harm was meant. Let's see if we can contain it here. I don't want, for instance, a Junk Reanimator list saying why it is bringing back Primordial's instead of Angel's of Serenity.

[Christen]

I'd suggest Kessig wolf run.

Also Kessig wolf run MB too >_>

Why aren't you running it?

I was running it for a while and found that I wasn't using it a lot. It does help give Wolfir trample when needed. I'll test running it again since lately I'm being chumped a lot.

Another creature I was previously running with this kind of list was Skarrg Guildmage. He's good if you're the type that doesn't go all out immediately (I didn't run BTE in this list).

[rcwraspy]

I'd suggest Kessig wolf run.

Also Kessig wolf run MB too >_>

Why aren't you running it?

I was running it for a while and found that I wasn't using it a lot. It does help give Wolfir trample when needed. I'll test running it again since lately I'm being chumped a lot.

Another creature I was previously running with this kind of list was Skarrg Guildmage. He's good if you're the type that doesn't go all out immediately (I didn't run BTE in this list).

It also depends on what you're trying to do. For the use of 3 lands, KWR can give 1 guy trample. For X
more it can pump that 1 trample guy.

For GR, Guildmage can give all your guys trample. No boost, but again it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. With naturally larger threats in the hammer builds anyway, that may be good enough. Worth testing.

[Platypus]

Hound of Griselbrand for example.

I'm not sure using a card like that is worth having a non-existent deck called "Gruul Warhammer" in Competitive instead of actual Gruul lists that people think of when considering the archetype currently.

I always assumed Competitive was for discussing decks that had proven themselves through pro results, not FNM homebrews. I'm fine with it if everyone is fine with it (not really, but I am not going to commandeer the entire Standard forum, so I will go with majority), I just need to know if we are going to be even less competitive in nature than Salvation so I know how to organize things when more people start to join.

This shoud perhaps be discussed elsewhere, but I'll post it here anyway.

nWhen is a deck competive enough to justify a place in a Competitive forum section? It's obvious when it comes to decks winning Pro Tours and such, they belong. And when it comes to some pet deck with a convoluted combo requiring 4-5 cards to go off on turn 10, it's just as obvious that they don't belong. But the rest? Especially decks like the ones in this thread, that are very good, but haven't any Top 4 records from PTs or GPs. But the decks might actually be competitive against the established decks. Just because they're played at FNMs doesn't mean they can't be competitive. Not all FNMs are made up of crappy homebrews. I know that when I visit my local FNM I'll have to have a deck that can stand against current established decks or variants of those if I want to win. The top players there are playing the current tier 1 decks or variations. And where does a variation of a tier 1 deck belong? How much cards should be changed before it should be in the Developing section?

[fireiced]

I still want it to be extremely competitive right here on diestoremoval with plenty of constructive comments.

I have gotten top8 in quite a few PTQs and WMCQ (always die to land flood in top4 ALWAYS! ) on the back of 3 sideboarded Hounds! Since DGM is going to be released soon, I believe we can lower our competitiveness for the sake of adapting and brewing with the influx of newer cards. Once a couple of GPs have proven how Gruul Ragehammer decks should go we could resume the competitiveness we had earlier.

Besides my FNM deck is never aggro, always some silly mill deck I brewed so I can attend to judge calls easier (breaking your concentration while calculating math is quite frustrating )

Hound of Griselbrand for example.

I'm not sure using a card like that is worth having a non-existent deck called "Gruul Warhammer" in Competitive instead of actual Gruul lists that people think of when considering the archetype currently.

I always assumed Competitive was for discussing decks that had proven themselves through pro results, not FNM homebrews. I'm fine with it if everyone is fine with it (not really, but I am not going to commandeer the entire Standard forum, so I will go with majority), I just need to know if we are going to be even less competitive in nature than Salvation so I know how to organize things when more people start to join.

[Link]

I'm fine with this thread being moved to Developing, I should've placed it there to begin with.


We can start a R/g Sligh thread in Competitive, because that's definitely had some showings.

I'm still not quite sure why Hound doesn't see more competitive play. I've been trying to get to the bottom of his weakness and its just not apparent to me. I suppose he folds to Snapcaster+pillar of flame, but the times I've dropped him its usually when both players have about 1-2 cards left in hand.

He's slow as well, and the argument could be made that if you're going for a more "midrangey" deck there are better options, like Huntmaster. Still, I've never seen a midrange deck create a more impressive board state than a hound with pump has for me. I drop him and they don't have an answer its game. Period.

Anyway this is just me describing how the archetype here (Ragehammer) is different than R/g sligh
which obviously should always run 4 spears and cut land and go balls deep.

I've found spears less impressive because of midrange decks that Sligh has trouble with. Spear isn't going to "burn them out" once they've landed their first thrag. And if you SPEAR a thrag, you're 2-1ing yourself inherently because of the nature of Thrag.

So why run spear when you can go trample through them instead with a bit more of a "combo" with Hound+Rancor, or Reckoner+Armed//Dangerous/Blasphemous Act.


TLDR: I've got no problems dropping us down to Developing if Competitive threads HAVE to have placements to exist.

I was simply under the impression that "Competitive" meant "support all your card choices with logic and reasoning rather than "this is fun and cute!" If we've failed to do that let me know and please point them out.

[Kaitscralt]

Thank you for moving the more well-known Gruul lists to their own thread, Fate. I think that helps with the issue I was having (lists that are more recognizable to someone seeking a pro list to grab being lost in someone's personal brew thread). I want to make sure we can cater to everyone.

I'm okay with this thread here as long as it focuses on the deck outlined in the OP, and traditional Standard Gruul isn't lost among Hound's and Guildmage's.

[Alex]

When is a deck competive enough to justify a place in a Competitive forum section?

I, personally, am of the camp of "if there's no results from something more relevant than an FNM, it goes to Developing" just like the forum was SUPPOSED to be back on MTGS.

Two reasons.

1.) It's easier on the eyes when you open the subforum in competitive. If you open the subforum and see like ten variations of the same-ish deck, how do you know which one is one that's actually won large events without dredging through the whole thread?
2.) It keeps discussion more constructive. If it's in developing, most of the mindset is going to be "how to make this deck better" instead of "why this deck hasn't won something yet."

That's
how I feel, anyway. I left my Boros list in developing until I was done and posted results. It wasn't a PTQ but it WAS a 1k, which I consider to be a tournament of high enough competition to warrant it.

I'm also of the camp that the OP should be a primer, even if it is mostly a community-contributed primer. It just makes the entire thread flow nicer. So that's the thing I like most about this thread.

[Kaitscralt]

I didn't want to make any bad blood with the forum so quiet member-wise, seemed unnecessary for me to make demands, but if Alex and Zem agree with me then maybe we can start moving some threads around. It would help clean things up a little bit.

For the record, I agree with Alex's stance.

[Platypus]

My view of the term competitive is more like Fate's, but I certainly understand Alex' and Kaitscralt's view of it as well. I'm not going to argue against it, my thoughts on the term were mostly philosophical in nature.

[Link]

I can sympathize with caring about the aesthetics of things, I plan on writing the primer of the R/g Sligh thread when I get more time.

As for the distinction, there will certainly be no "bad blood" if the distinction is clear and this archetype doesn't make the cut for competitive.

It can be either:
1. Competitive-A list that has placed Top 4 in a tournament larger than FNM
2. Competitive-A list that is designed to do well in the current meta of standard, with reasoning and logic to back up card choices if the deck has not placed in a tournament larger than FNM.

I'd be fine if its #1. Afterall, even if I use logic and reasoning and make my deck sound nice, the hell is it worth anything if I don't have results to back it up? After all, with enough skill in writing you can make a Demon Post deck look competitive.

One of my goals for this season is to get my list to place like
fireiced has. I'll be fine with moving the thread down and giving me extra incentive to prove the strategies I wrote about as competitive.

Let's just make the distinction clear and move forward with the site one way or the other.

[Alex]

I'll be fine with moving the thread down and giving me extra incentive to prove the strategies I wrote about as competitive.

Sweet, I think we all agree then. I'll move the thread and leave a ghost link here for a little bit so that people who were finding the thread manually know where it went.

If you're interested in playtesting against the gauntlet let me know, I'll play with you again one night when I'm not half asleep.

Let's just make the distinction clear and move forward with the site one way or the other.

This is something I think should be addressed, you're right. Ill probably write a "What belongs here" sticky soon.

[Link]

Got 1st place in a competitive standard tournament last night. It was cash payout and Competitive REL rules. Its basically the practice grounds for this Team (that I got invited too ;D) that travels around to all the GP events and SCG opens.

On my way to getting this seen as a competitive list!

Here's what I ended up writing down on my deck sheet:
[deck]Ragehammer[/deck]


Match-ups:

Round 1 vs: Jund Control 2-0
Only match-up I brought VS
in against and didn't even need it. G1 he hardcasted a bonfire for 2 to wipe a zealot and cackler, but I won topdeck mode after that. G2 I just ran over him. T4 he slaughter games'd my.. Flinthoof boar (Who I was saving in hand to bait removal first, ironically), then T5 Rakdos' Return'd me. I don't think he had any idea how to play against aggro.
-4 Rancor
-2 Spear
+3 Hound
+3 Volcanic Strength


Round 2 vs. Junk Rites 2-1
Now this was a serious match and I am proud of pulling it through.

G1 I get stuck on 3 land and proceed to have all 3 hellriders in my hand, drawn one after the other. I scoop T6 or so when he starts reviving things.


G2 I don't sideboard and I run him over by T4 while he's dicking around with salvages. No problem.



G3 Now I was worried. I HATE being on the draw against this deck.
-4 Stromkirk Nobles
-2 Rakdos Cacklers
+3 Pillar
+3 Hound

Pillars were HOUSE. This game was harder though, for sure. He lands Lingering souls, I throw
down an Ash zealot. Get my rancor on Ash Zealot (only saw 1, I seriously can't go lower than 4 if I'm running Rancor and hounds again.) I also land a PYREHEART HERO WOLF. So glad this guy wasn't a Reckoner (and so glad I decided NOT to go with the BAct+Reckoners SB plan, having taken out BActs all together because I didn't smell any Naya blitz players). I proceed to go around his 4 drop which was.... Trostani.

I look at his yard. 3 Thragtusks in there and 2 rites.

But then I look at my hand!
Swing past trostani. Post combat: Searing Spear, pillar of flame Trostani. EXILE THAT ****

Go around his next threat because Pyreheart is the best.

Then I topdeck a Hound. I throw him down.

He makes a misplay (imo). He Garruk Relentless my Rancor'd Ash Zealot. I think he wanted to be able to flash back rites next turn without hurting himself (he had already taken 1 ash zealot trigger).

Rancor goes back to my hand. I have a hound on board remember.

Rancor goes on hound... oh wait, did I mention
I topdecked KWR? I had 6 land at this point.

Rancor hound. KWR hound for +2/0

12 trample damage. First strike took out all of his blockers literally, 2nd strike did 6. He was at 6 (I also had a spear in hand and pyreheart swinging, so it was k).


I'm super glad my SB plan worked out flawlessly. KWR+Rancor ended up being redundant but imagine if I had not seen a rancor and topdecked KWR or vice versa. Redundancy= consistency.

He complained post game that he didnt see a single Angel of Serenity G3. Boo hoo. Like 2 thrags 2 rites and a Trostani wasn't good enough? I wasn't complaining I didn't see a single Ghor-Clan to trample through his face for the whole set


Round 3 vs. Bantchantments 2-0
G1: Mulled to 4.... AND WON?!? This guy made a serious misplay. He had been watching me all night and I hadn't dropped a GCR, I guess he had just forgotten that card existed. My 4 card hand
was: Cackler, Land, Land, Pyreheart Wolf.

Cackler went to town, I think I topdecked a spear for his dork. He starts getting flooded with a hand full of enchantments. He finally drops an Invisible stalker with an Ethereal armor.

I swing into it with cackler he goes "lolblock" I go "lolbloordush?" He had another ethereal armor and gift of orzhova in hand. Whoops. Pyreheart the next turn and he knows he can't recover.

G2:
Now I wish I had BActs, but turns out I could just race his inconsistent deck. I think BActs aren't necessary (would need more testing against naya blitz, but I'm still of the impression that you can just race them since they shock themselves and help you so much. They need a nut draw to win, you just need Noble.)

Forgot what I sided out (wolves and wolf-run I guess?)
+3 Reckoners
+3 Pillars

I have a ton of burn in hand since I sided in pillars. Spear his silverblade so his geist only does so-so damage. Just race through him, not that eventful.

1st
place was $40, since only 8 people showed (16 showed last week apparently, 12 before that. It was because of midnight release stuff I guess), but I'm not complaining because I paid the entry fee with store credit anyway


He then gives me his spiel about "Team GT" and how much support their store gives them. He said they comp hotel rooms and stuff and you get free gear and playmats and what not. I might be interested, I might also have to work too damn much. Would definitely be fun to travel around with a team to playtest with.

[Platypus]

Thanks for the write-up! The deck looks really solid. Against what decks do you bring in Domri? It's a card I haven't tried in my lists yet, mostly because I don't have'em. So I always wondering about how important he is, and what I can replace him with?

[Pyreheart Bezerra]

Congrats bud. We will get this topic back into the competitive sub-forum. Anyways the write-up is definitely appreciated. Too bad I have been working so much I haven't had a chance to play any competitive events this week. I will try to hit one tomorrow, so I should have a write-up for that one. Definitely going to rock the most recent list I posted. After pulling the wolves and bringing back hound it is running very very well. I am amazed how well it plays out, and adding Domri, Gyre Sage, and Silverheart to the list seems almost broken. Domri's fight ability becomes much more relevant, and Gyre sage acts as a lightning rod to keep my other threats alive. Hope I can finally win that invite to the AZ Magic Invitational, as that is the qualifier I am planning to attend tomorrow. And there are only 6 invites left. After that they go to top 8 in
points (5th on the list). As long as I grind it out I should be in.

I too think armed/dangerous can be amazing, but since I have forgone reckoners in the list now, it isn't well positioned. Blood(Flesh/Blood) may be a card that could work well as a finisher in the Hammer lists. After a GCR pump to double the damage in the second main phase? or used on a paired silverheart for 8 to the dome?

Any other DGM cards that you think may help these lists?
-Pyrewild Shaman? If control makes it back to Tier 1.

Also do you think we will need to start playing 4 Pillar's again. Pretty much keep them in hand for Voice of Resurgence. And for the aristocrats act 2 matchups?

[Kaitscralt]

Thanks for the write-up! The deck looks really solid. Against what decks do you bring in Domri? It's a card I haven't tried in my lists yet, mostly because I don't have'em. So I always wondering about how important he is, and what I can replace him with?

Control basically can't beat a Domri.

[Link]

well, the new Grixis Control popping up can. Also Jund handles him decently.

But yeah Kait's list (that I playtest against for hardmode challenges because holyfuck essence scatters, pillars, spears, oh my), and Esper control usually just go "well fuck."

Bant Control as well.

Basically if they are running azorius charm, you run Domri. I didn't bring him in against G/r (to be able to "remove" their domris) and that match-up was fine. You just go under them and burn their gyre sages, don't even need to worry about Domri.

[Link]

I've thought about Pyrewild, but I don't think he fits in this list.

The only match-up he comes in against as you agree is control.

However, if you get to "topdeck" mode against control, your problem isn't getting creatures to connect for more damage. Its getting creatures to stick, period. If you're actually getting into the red zone in top deck mode then you're doing all right. PLUS we have access to KWR just for that purpose, which gives trample as well.

Idk, he's worth testing with rancor but I just can't think of a situation in which I would want to pay the 3 to get him back instead of just playing another threat, or how I would actually be swinging in for damage against control TO be able to buyback if they've resolved a revelation.

Yeah I'm thinking 4 pillars as well for Voice as well. Did you see Sam Black's Junk version of aristocrats with Valroz? Definitely can't let T3 demon engines
go off with a regenerative guy on the board.

[Link]

Testing today shows!:

Not so much a fan of Skullcrack..

Its literally good against ONE card, and that's thragtusk.

4 slots for my SB for one card? I dont' care if its in every deck that has green, even when I play them its not guaranteed they'll have thrag.

And even when they have thrag I found holding up mana far less appealing than just playing another threat.

Out of about 20 games vs. Junk and Bant I resolved ONE skullcrack in response to a thrag (aka I had no other cards in hand to play, and open mana when I passed, and was able to crack his thrag). When I did it, sure it was freakin sweet doing 8 burn for 2 mana.

But if that card had been anything else it would've been fine. Skull sucks against rev too, then only time you want to skull in response to rev is when its for lethal and the spear does the same thing anyway.

I mean if Trostani+Tokens really started to see play I would consider it again,
but I want to free up that space for VS again because I'm more afraid of Reckoners than of Thrags.

edit:

I kinda forgot about fog

no real reason to test against fog and gloom surgeon, because obviously it is the nuts against that.

Mehhhhh

[Platypus]

well, the new Grixis Control popping up can. Also Jund handles him decently.

But yeah Kait's list (that I playtest against for hardmode challenges because holyfuck essence scatters, pillars, spears, oh my), and Esper control usually just go "well fuck."

Bant Control as well.

Basically if they are running azorius charm, you run Domri. I didn't bring him in against G/r (to be able to "remove" their domris) and that match-up was fine. You just go under them and burn their gyre sages, don't even need to worry about Domri.

Ah ok, thanks for the answer. I'm currently running Lightning Maulers maindeck and they help with Azorius Charms as well, but I'm thinking about moving the Wolves back instead. I have no turn three plays, and
I'd like to open up some space in the SB. And I felt only 21 lands was a bit few perhaps. In that case my list would look pretty close to yours, except for the SB.

[lorddax]

Have you guys started testing ZTD in the rage list? Its ramp in gruul colors and can very much throw off opp mathing. Plus 22 damage dealt by turn 4 isn't too shabby either...

I think I'm going to see if I can cobble together Ragehammer and see if ZTD helps or hinders the deck

[Christen]

ZTD fits the green-heavy list better obviously. It would be nice to ramp to Ruric Thar.

[Pyreheart Bezerra]

Here's my list with ZTD in it. Its from a couple pages back. I didn't really stick with it, since I didn't have time then to properly test it over Arbor elf in the list. However, it did have its merits as lorrdax has stated. Definitely worth a look.

[deck]Gruul Ragehammer 4.0[/deck]

[Link]

its good that I made the other thread, I feel like I was being pretty schizo about the two builds and trying to transform from one to the other.

To do the hound+pump combo justice it really needs its own deck.

Gonna keep hounds in a list like Pyrehearts, and my cacklers and stromkirks in the other.

[Christen]

My current build that did 3-1 last night. I also beat a Sire Jund list with it if that's any worth mentioning.

[deck]Gruul Big Swings[/deck]

If you manage to resolve Ruric, that's a guaranteed 6 damage outside of Boros Reckoner blocks. Kessig is pretty much a requirement at this point since you need trample to get around that weakness.

At this point I'm debating whether Ruric or Wolfir Silverheart is more useful. Assuming both
resolves since both are weak to counterspells:

Wolfir Silverheart
+ easier to cast and a turn earlier
+ buffs one of your creatures and not a bad body by itself. Makes your Thundermaws much much more dangerous
+ can have multiples in the field
- easier to remove without drawbacks

Ruric Thar
+ Vigilance and Reach allows you to swing and block those pesky fliers
+ removing it from the field deals significant damage, which is what you want to do.
+ it's a dangerous threat by itself and is a better finisher overall
- harder to cast and resolve
- bad in multiples

In a creature-heavy meta, I'd use Wolfir Silverhearts since that almost always walls out two creatures on the other side. In a control-heavy meta, Ruric-Thar is most likely the better choice.

[Christen]

Ah yes, matchups last night:

- UWr control (2-1)
The deck doesn't seem to have been packing a lot of counters which was favorable to me. He was running Turn // Burn and Warleader's Helix. My Ruric Thar got Terminused when he came down, but that was enough damage put him in reach. Game I lost was due to a possible misplay or my conservativeness of not wanting to overextend into a wrath while I could have swung in for lethal if I have dropped my Ghor-Clan Rampager early.

- Naya Zoo (1-2)
Got outclassed quickly by creatures on both games I lost when I wasn't able to stabilize with my board. Bonfire blowouts as well. The game of the night where I mulliganed the most so that might have also been a factor. Voice of Resurgence was here and it was an interesting decision if not bringing in Pillar of Flame to deal with just this card is correct. In any case, it's not the
main reason he won anyway (double Restoration Angel beats).

- Jund Midrange (2-1)
The new list sporting Sire of Insanity, though I didn't get to see him in all three games. Rakdos Return and Kessig Wolf Run killed me in my second game while both games I won were won on the back of Thundermaw Hellkite and bloodrush Ghor-Clan Rampager (double on the last game)

- Jund Varolz Aggro (2-1)
First game I lost when I wasn't able to get any red source (kept a hand of 2 forests, BTE, Domri, Strangleroot, Arbor Elf, Flinthoof). I figured I can cheat Domri into play anyway just in case. Next game I was able to win when I was able to steal Varolz on two consecutive turns. Last game was decided by bloodrushed Ghor-Clan Rampager.

[Link]

Good write-up and list.

Caverns naming warrior can help your Ruric problem! (but in reality probably way too greedy mana wise)

Any reason you can't replace the Triumph of fericoties in the side for Ruric Thar for control MU and put Silverheart MB? Never tested Triumph but I can't see why you would need it when Domri does it so much better.

Definitely glad to hear ruric workin out though, nothings more Ragehammer than our guild leader

[Christen]

I'll be trying that out next time. It's amusing to note that when I managed to resolve Triumph against control, my opponent did everything he can to rid me of creatures before I had the chance to draw an extra card. Though, Triumph has its advantages over Domri and extra cards are always welcome.

I've considered Caverns, but being the manabase as it is already, it would probably end up making it harder for us in the long run.

What I'm interested in though is Ruric's matchup with Junk Rites. They will gain a lot of life in the match that 6 damage isn't probably too significant. A hard-cast AoS will also take care of him without too much problem, though if AoS is already in the field, he does block AoS (though that opens you up for Unburial Rites).

[Christen]

New sideboard for green base

[deck]Green Gruul[/deck]

I'm particularly worried about the midrange matchup and thus included 4 threatens here. Wolfir Silverheart got back into the maindeck and is more flexible than Ruric over all.

[Solemn10]

Does a GPT win count as a tournament win? If so

[deck]
Land 23
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Temple Garden
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Stomping Ground
12 Mountain

Creatures 29
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Stonewright
4 Burning-Tree Emmisary
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Hellrider
2 Thundermaw Hellkite

Instant/Sorcery 8
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear

Sideboard 15
1 Mountain
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Ruric Thar, The Unbowed
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Skullcrack
3 Volcanic Strength
2 Electrickery
[/deck]

[Pyreheart Bezerra]

The lack of Hound of Griselbrand is disturbing to me.

Nice job on the win, do you happen to have a tournament report so we can see your matchups and possibly sideboarding.

[Solemn10]

Thanks. Hounds would be nice but I just couldn't find the space for them. Sorry, no tournament report, don't really keep track of that stuff and I have really bad memory sideboarding is something I do after seeing what's in their deck... I don't really have a set plan.
I can try to list the decks I played but no play by play.
Round 1: American mid 2-1
Round 2: Jund Aggro 2-1
Round 3: Gruul 0-2
Round 4: Naya Mid 0-2 (old school thrag resto combo)
Round 5: Big Gruul 2-1

Top 8
Round 1: Gruul 2-0 (round 3 opp)
Round 2: Jund Midrange 2-0
Round 3: Jund Aggro 2-1 (round 2 opp)

[Link]

I'm thinking of Zhur-taa druid to accelerate the game plan in this deck. Am I crazy?

I know Vala is going to come in here and tell me to cut the BTEs, and this time he's probably right. I need to test how consistent the mana base is without her though, because BTE-> ZTD for permanent green just sounds really appealing:

[deck]34 Creatures
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Zhur-Taa Druid
4x Flinthoof Boar
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Ash Zealot
4x Hound of Griselbrand
4x Ghor-Clan rampager
2x Pyrewild Shaman

4x Rancor

22 Land
10x Mountain
2x Kessig Wolf-Run
2x Temple Garden
4x Stomping Ground
4x Rootbound Crag[/deck]

SB will probably have some number of Ragehammer like things such as mortars, pillars for earlier interaction, VS, some ranger's guile to protect hounds from tempo plays (and make them hit even harder!) 4x Mortars, 4x Pillar, 4x VS, 3x Guile atm.

The outline of this deck is
just to use mana very efficiently, because in Sligh I'm just getting tired of having every single 5th+ land be a completely dead card. I'm willing to trade some speed for some more power. Also getting off the hellrider plan and being stronger against 1-1 interaction decks. ZTD's reach adds up, especially if he's pumpign for KWR damage on a hound (1 from ping, 2 from the single mana into hound)

[Link]

I'm thinkin FotF and Elecktrickery 2/2 split or something over 4x pillars? hmm elecktrickery is better on the play against naya blitz for champions, fotf gets you ahead, overloaded elecktrickery gets you ahead...

I think those are better in the anti-aggro slot probably than just pillar. This deck kinda ignores voice anyway. Probably cut a VS, cut pillars, 3 Fotf 2 elecktrickery.

ok off to test to make the SB a better "build the the entire 75"


[deck]SB plan[/deck]

vs. Aggro
-4 Rancor
-4 ZTD
-2 Pyrewild Shaman

+3 VS
+3 Mortars
+2 Elecktrickery
+2 FotF


Aggro's the only one I really want to be streamlined. Control is too varied these days to make exact plans, but probably taking out nobles on the draw against augur decks, boardin in conscripts and guile most times.
Flames against esper decks with souls etc.

Really likin it after some initial run throughs with esper and junkcrats and the mirror.

The return of the Rancorrr!

ZTD has impressed me so far. Against esper and junkcrats his reach really frickin added up. Also being able to turn 3 out a hound against esper was huge pressure. If he tapped out for anything I had bloodrush waiting with my hound to clean him up (all the while pinging with ZTD and building an ash zealot board state trying to force a verdict)

Naya is a problematic match-up it seems, at least if you see the wrong half of your deck (the non-rancor zealot+hound side) and just get beat down by valuable shit that I don't have Mb removal for

[Valdarith]

I'm thinking of Zhur-taa druid to accelerate the game plan in this deck. Am I crazy?

I know Vala is going to come in here and tell me to cut the BTEs, and this time he's probably right. I need to test how consistent the mana base is without her though, because BTE-> ZTD for permanent green just sounds really appealing:

[deck]34 Creatures
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Zhur-Taa Druid
4x Flinthoof Boar
4x Boros Reckoner
4x AsH Zealot
4x Hound of Griselbrand
2x Pyrewild Shaman

4x Rancor

22 Land
10x Mountain
2x Kessig Wolf-Run
2x Temple Garden
4x Stomping Ground
4x Rootbound Crag[/deck]

SB will probably have some number of Ragehammer like things such as mortars, pillars for earlier interaction, VS, some ranger's guile
to protect hounds from tempo plays (and make them hit even harder!) 4x Mortars, 4x Pillar, 4x VS, 3x Guile atm.

The outline of this deck is just to use mana very efficiently, because in Sligh I'm just getting tired of having every single 5th+ land be a completely dead card. I'm willing to trade some speed for some more power. Also getting off the hellrider plan and being stronger against 1-1 interaction decks. ZTD's reach adds up, especially if he's pumpign for KWR damage on a hound (1 from ping, 2 from the single mana into hound)

BTE is okay here. I don't like the build though. If I'm playing ZTD I want to be ramping into some strong four and five drops, which makes Rancor rather silly since your creatures will be powerful without it, and BTE less useful since you'll necessarily be running more green sources anyway while going with a more midrange plan. Ghor-Clan Rampager and Thundermaw Hellkite really want to be in a deck with ZTD.

[Valdarith]

Actually I think the deck is better with a heavy green base. You get fatter creatures with more value and more ramp opportunities and late-game reach. Of course, this is similar to what I proposed in the green-heavy Gruulhammer primer.

[deck]Creatures (32)
4 Arbor Elf
4 Experiment One
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Zhur-Taa Druid
4 Wolfir Avenger
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Deadbridge Goliath
4 Vorapede

Spells (4)
4 Bonfire of the Damned

Land (24)
2 Kessig Wolf-Run
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Gruul Guildgate
1 Mountain
11 Forest[/deck]

[Link]

GCR is in the deck, I need to fix the list apparently o_O

you're probably right that if I'm going the ramp plan might as well go G/r

I just wanted the best of both worlds I guess.

The problem I have with the G/r midrange is the mana base is so iffy. I liked the ramp of elves but they suck for damage, and gyre sage was pretty durdly....

So enter:

Still a RDW shell, with BTE and ZTD to allow you to play way more green and higher costs. Hellkite should probably be in the deck yeah (as should spears to make it truly a RDW shell, since the reach is pretty lacking).

hmmm

[Valdarith]

Copying this over from the R/x Gruul Sligh thread in Competitive since it belongs here instead.

[deck]
Creatures (29)
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Flinthoof Boar
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Hound of Griselbrand
2 Zealous Conscripts

Spells (8)
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
2 Rancor

Lands (23)
2 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Temple Garden
11 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Frostburn Weird
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Ground Seal
3 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Rancor
2 Pillar of Flame
[/deck]

The above is what I started out with a few days ago. I queued a few eight mans and wrecked face. This deck mulligans very well and is very strong against R/g Gruul sligh and Naya Blitz. Often times we can just cast a Reckoner or Rampager and our aggro opponent can do nothing about it.

One thing I discovered is that I don't really want Rancor in the maindeck. I
found I rarely wanted it and it seemed like a better card to bring in from the sideboard in case I wanted to go with a more aggressive plan (say vs Reanimator or Control). The two KWR seemed to be enough most of the time.

One other thing I'm wondering about is Zealous Conscripts. This card was good for me sometimes and just another dude in other situations. I love playing creatures with value like Hound of Griselbrand as they help even out the card advantage control decks typically get. This sounds crazy, but I'm actually considering Thragtusk instead. He makes our aggro matchup even more favorable, he's got big power, and he leaves a body behind when he dies. I could move two Zealous Conscripts to the side to deal with Reanimator and Midrange strategies.

[deck]
Creatures (29)
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Flinthoof Boar
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Hound of Griselbrand
2 Thragtusk

Spells (8)
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear

Lands (23)
2 Kessig Wolf
Run
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Temple Garden
11 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Ranger's Guile
2 Frostburn Weird
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Ground Seal
2 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Zealous Conscripts
[/deck]

[Link]

If aggros already favorable, why not hellkite at 5 for better evasion? 5/3 is nice, but no haste and can be blocked by souls for days as opposed to wiping souls... iunno. the online meta is pretty much 80% gruul so you're probably right, I'm just thinking for Hound in the real world scene.

Did you have awkward 1 land 1 KWR hands or have trouble casting reckoner or zealot often?

I think VS has a place somewhere in your list. VS on a hound against jund once youve exhausted them and they land their garruk/thrag or whatever is usually pretty big game. And even if they do remove it after its gotten in once, if you have GCR held back or a KWR for the 3/3 half, you can be pretty sure they are out of removal and go all in?

[Link]

the thing is I'm only playing ZTD because it pairs off BTE and fixes for green, so that's 8 cards I really don't need to be playing.

I think, if I don't want to go full green/r mode, I'm better off trading those 8 cards for 4 spears and 4 rancors.

So basically I'm gonna use your deck except tuned for a UWr and control meta (aka hellkites and rancors do work more than pillars and thrags here)

[deck]
[deck]
Creatures (30)
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Hound of Griselbrand
2 Pyrewild Shaman

Spells (8)
4 Searing Spear
4 Rancor

Lands (22)
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Temple Garden
1 Gruul Guildgate
10 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Ranger's Guile
2 Blasphemous Act
2 Volcanic Strength
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Zealous Conscripts
1 Kessig Wolf-Run
1 Ground Seal
[/deck]

nI like the idea of Blast act now the we're using hounds. You lose your board state and I get a 3/3 double strike out of the deal? Seems fine (I was testing clan defiance because of ZTD, but cutting them BAct is just pretty much always better for the mana you pay+Reckoner combo)

Instead of just pillar to deal with aggro decks (aka 1-1 them early) I'm going to go for the get ahead of them plan with Blasphemous act resets, Mortars, and Fotf. Could be a mistake, could always cut some number of SB cards for 3 pillars (like ground seal and acts)

The slight changes are: Lower curve, with pyrewild for hounds and something to do with mana if we flood out (like KDW, I just really hate relying on a 5th land drop to curve out in aggressive decks) Rancors over pillar because its better with hounds, better for going long, and guild gate over 2nd wolf-run because of lack of BTE and being able to cast reckoners more often.

Pretty excited about this list, although cutting BTE really wasn't easy (but I cut her
for Cackler, which eased my sins, because cackler goes faster than BTE in this list)