[Primer] PyroRed

[Helios]

Thanks for the report, kahmos! Good work mate.

[Aodh]

Is FFS any better against control with all of their removal and general low creature account?

[Helios]

No. The 4 Mutavaults you use when playing him in mono red are though.

[Aodh]

19/4 lands can support RSF as te other 2-drop probably.

[zemanjaski]

No. The 4 Mutavaults you use when playing him in mono red are though.

Its another body which is relevant. Also lets you run 4 mutavault, which are more bodies. All the extra hits add up quickly, and it is another card like YP$ that completely shuts down Desecration Demon.

[F.I.A]

Going in another DE (1-2) with this sideboard:
[deck]4 Boros Charm
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Wear // Tear[/deck]

More Boros Charm because I've been having some bad times with control. I want a card that actually gives my opponent's verdict a "No". It also works as a pseudo Dreadbore for planeswalkers, since most are down to 1 loyalty with it (A good way to snuff those pesky Jace). [card]Wear // Tear[/card] is for the occasional god weapons or Detention Sphere

---

Match 1 -peter780107 - Esper Control
Hand:- 3 Mountain, 1 Temple of Triumph, 1 Firedrinker Satyr, 1 Chained to the Rocks, 1 Lightning Strike
Game 1 - I started the round with a Satyr, thinking the hand could be sufficient.
Unfortunately I have been flooding with lands as my opponent landed down a Jace, killing anything I have and stalling the game out.

-4 Shock -2 Lighting Strike +4 Boros Charm +2 Mizzium Mortars

Hand: 1 Mountain, 1 Young Pyromancer, 2 Magma Jet, 3 Chandra's Phoenix
Game 2 - Okay, I got too greedy this time. That second land never came until turn 4, and he already landed a Fiendslayer Paladin. He later followed up with a Archangel of Thune to seal the game.

Match 2 - Little Nanmen - Blue Devo (2-0)
Hand: 1 Chandra, 1 Cackler, 1 Pyro, 2 Mountains, 1 Temple of Triumph, 1 Sacred Foundry
Game 1 - I curved up and dealt with a Spectre by sending out my 2/*s and then Chandra +1. He later put out a Master of Waves, which was promptly Chained.

-4 Rakdos Cackler -4 Firedrinker Satyr +4 Boros Reckoner +2 Chained to the Rocks +2 Mizzium Mortars

nHand: 2 Magma Jet 1 Mountain 1 Sacred Foundry 1 Shock 1 Pyro 1 Lightning Strike
Game 2 - No idea what was this guy doing. He played out a lone Tidebinder Mage without anything to tap. I played my Pyro and proceeded to Shock it next turn. When I attacked with pyro, he activated his Mutavault causing it to eat a Magma Jet. He played another Tidebinder, but I removed it in next upkeep and arranged it so that I drew a Mountain before the Chained to the Rocks, then played out Ashley. He then played MoW, but I was more than prepared for him with the topdeck.

Match 3 - imthefknman - GW Enchant (0-2)
Hand: 1 Satyr, 1 Chandra, 1 Ash Zealot, 1 Magma Jet, 1 Mountain, 1 Temple of Triumph, 1 Lightning Strike
Game 1 - He landed Fiendslayer Paladin with [card]
Unflinching Courage[/card] next. I was able to wall the ground with 3 Ashleys, waiting for the Chain to come. It didn't.

-4 Rakdos Cackler -4 Firedrinker Satyr +4 Boros Reckoner +2 Chained to the Rocks +2 Mizzium Mortars

Game 2 - First he played a Witchstalker. He then followed up with a Trollhide, and then Unflinching Courage. If that wasn't enough, he then landed a Ajani, double-striked it to overkill my Chandra (I was at 13 life). It was a cat playing mouse game, but there was nothing I could do.

Lesson(s) learned
- Keeping a one-lander is still a bad idea, even if you have two Magma Jets.
- I really need to start to learn to mull some hands.
- I think that sorry excuse of a wolf hurt us more than blue & black.

[Elricity]

While I sit here and get stomped down by master of waves, I'm seriously considering last breath. Hits voice, master, and frostburn so there's that.

Edit: and Phoenix and fiendslayers and trostani and...yeah, ok that's enough good reasons right there. Peak erruption out.

[zemanjaski]

Quick DE Report:

Round 1: Green-White Aggro.
Game 1: I keep a burn light hand, but it has two 1 drops, a zealot, a YP and a FFS. He slips on mana a little early and I get some quick beats in and FFS does good work getting me past Loxodon Smiter. He gums up the ground and I have a Phoenix in the air, then burn for his Centaur token and I am attacking again. He gums up the board again but EOT bolt you, make a 1/1 into attack for exactsies.
Game 2: Board into control, keep a hand without quite enough removal, he has EOT wurm into enchant and I die.
Game 3: I take out all my shocks (should have done this last game, he wasn't playing 1 drops) and cut down a little on the top end for 4 Cackler and 2 Satyr; I want to get some early pressure then play aggro-control. I do have a turn 1 Cackler and a turn 2 FFS into turn 3 Zealot, getting in for massive
damage. He gums up the ground and a Phoenix goes to the air. We talk casually about our decks and the boardstate while the Phoenix gets him low. He has two turns to draw an Unflinching Courage (has has two copies) but he bricks and dies to an alpha.

Result: 1-0 (2-1)

Round 2: Mono Black Control.
Game 1. I keep a 1 lander on the draw and don't get there, his board is too developed by the time I do.
Game 2. I have a hand with multiple one drops and two drops, drawing into mutavaults. I just straight run him over as he can't kill guys as quickly as I play them.
Game 3. Absolutely brilliant game on both sides. He has the all removal draw and it isnt until turn 4 I can hit him for 2. Desecration Demon comes down and I suicide a Phoenix into it then mortars it away, rebuying it next turn with Chandra, who meets her downfall. He draws all four Pharika's Cure, I draw three mutavaults. Eventually he hits three consecutive land and a Phoenix and Mutavault
finish him off. A real showcase in the inherent value of a) running fewer land (you draw more spells!) and running the full four mutavault, they really won me this game (and match).

My opponent compliments me on the great games and the difficult situations we posed. Likes the uniqueness of my build, says YP is a huge problem for his deck. The random 1/1s make it hard for him to get value from his 1-for-1 removal (burn spells on his creatures are an issue, or they make Strike or Jet very powerful as the 1/1 might hit a few times. In particular, they hurt his Devour Flesh and Desecration Demons. Devour Flesh is pretty bad against this archetype, with YP and Phoenix running around.

Result: 2-0 (4-2)

Round 3: Mono Blue Devotion
Game 1. I win the roll and have Cackler into double YP + a handful of removal. Swarm mode engage. I end up just turning everyone sideways (that's how these decks work right?) for exactsies. Which is good, because if I had
miscounted I was super dead.
Game 2. Things start off OK and I am able to keep his board clear, but I stall out on land and cannot get enough pressure on him before Thassa finds him a bunch of Tidebinder Mages and a Master.
Game 3. Stalled early on 2 land. He had two Familiar in play and I was able to bait him to use them on Lightning Strikes on his Tidebinder to resolve a critical Magma Jet that let me get back in it. I started to aggro him out before Spectre + Thassa gets online. Things look grim for our hero, but Chandra +1s and eats a familiar, letting my team led by FFS do heavy damage. Thassa comes in to kill Chandra (must kill target), but now between FFS, Phoenix and Mutavault I have enough to get him dead in two turns of alpha. The last man standing was Rakdos Cackler, but if they're dead then it doesnt matter. Cackler > God of the Sea.

Result: 3-0 (6-3)

Round 4: GW Aggro
I don't even want to talk about this match. I have never had
someone draw this well in my life. 0-2 Loss. Nothing to do with the matchup and everything to do with him drawing perfect two games. And not like regular person perfect either. Also, what sort of psychopath maindecks Unflinching Courage? Basically I had the removal for Loxodon + enchant both games; but then he set it up again. Both games. Must be real nice.

Result: 3-1 (6-5).

Went and won 2 x 2-man queues after to make myself feel better.

[Keftenk]

Helios, the Rakis link is a locked(?) thread (viewtopic.php?f=101&t=1511).

This is what I get when I click it:
"Information

You are not authorised to read this forum."

Private, I'm assuming?

[RaidaTheBlade]

Question.
What do y'all think is the best build of pyro for an unknown meta?

I mean both 'should it be monored or pyros' and I'd be grateful for a decklist or two to think on. I'm basically trying to decide if it's worth the extra money to convert over from devo red...

[Keftenk]

I went into FNM with not going to any FNM's for 4 months. New store, new people, new everything. No idea what the meta was going to be.
I went in with Z's PyroBoros list that had 4 Peak Eruptions/no Assemble and wrecked face. The list I ran is on page 16 I think which is one of Z's older versions.

The 75 is really well positioned versus a lot, with the exception of Junk.

[windstrider]

I'm headed out today to play PyroWhite (I really want to call this deck Walter White for some reason) at a Game Day event. Since I'm not sure what to expect, I'm keeping mostly to the deck in the Primer with the exception of -1 Peak Eruption for +1 Assemble the Legion. I like the extra options that it gives to pressure someone and just overrun them.

This is somewhat of a gamble since I ordered the 3 Temples and 4 Chained from the store hosting the event.. This store has been very good in the past, but I don't want to walk in without the cards. I have the cards to go PyroRed if need be.

[Khaospawn]

Quick DE Report:



Round 4: GW Aggro
I don't even want to talk about this match. I have never had someone draw this well in my life. 0-2 Loss. Nothing to do with the matchup and everything to do with him drawing perfect two games. And not like regular person perfect either. Also, what sort of psychopath maindecks Unflinching Courage? Basically I had the removal for Loxodon + enchant both games; but then he set it up again. Both games. Must be real nice.

Result: 3-1 (6-5).

Believe me, Z, when I say that I know exactly how you feel. But, I shit you not, that every G/W player in my local meta (hell, I'll
go so far as to say the entire state of Florida) is playing 2-3 maindeck Unflinching Courage. The shit is retarded, and is the main reason I've been hanging on Boros Reckoner's nutsack, running around the interwebz like Chicken Little proclaiming that Reckoner needs to be maindecked all day, erryday.

[Khaospawn]

I'm headed out today to play PyroWhite (I really want to call this deck Walter White for some reason) at a Game Day event.

So let it be written, so let it be done.


By that logic though, Mono Blue should just be called "Blue Sky Persuasion."

[windstrider]

I shall start calling it Walter White from now on.

[Helios]

I approve of Walter White.

Keftenk: It is in the FoS clan brewery, a private forum for Fires of Salvation members. I'll try to find a public link; however, join the clan and get to posting for access to all the goodies!

[Calamity]

Thirding Walter White

If I ever take the deck to an event that's what I'm writing on the name line

[Khaospawn]

Breaking Boros was a name I suggested in the Restricted Brewery for yarpus' Kuroda Boros list, but it never caught on.

[zemanjaski]

Variant to test tonight:

[deck]Pyromaniac Red v3[/deck]
Creatures
4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Firefist Striker
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Instants
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock

Lands
18 Mountain
4 Mutavault

Sideboard
3 Act of Treason
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Frostburn Weird
1 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
[/deck]

Comments and observations:
- substantial sideboard re-configuration. This is on account of MODO having really only three archetypes (see below for sideboarding). While there are other archetypes, they're a tiny, tiny % of the meta online;
- burning tree emissary in over ash zealot. I'm not sure this is correct, but I'
ve noticed two things about games I lose, and both would be improved by BTE:
~ I have no 1 drop into Ash Zealot on the draw and they have doom blade or azorius charm. At this point I'm already behind. BTE getting two bodies into play would be huge here; and
~ I have a hand with no 1 drop and three 2 drops. This is almost always too clunky. BTE lets me get the bodies into play a full turn faster which results in more damage or saves more life.

Now I'm not sure this is correct. That's why we test. Maybe there are more games where Ash Zealot is more impactful than BTE's acceleration; I don't know because I haven't been thinking about it. I do know that in the mirror, being on the draw and having the option for BTE into removal to kill 1 guy and block another is a huge game; if you just play Ash Zealot and they kill it you're too far behind most times.

Ill be interested to see how the lower quality of the card affects my games when they're drawn out. There's being less interactive creature
combat recently so it might not be relevant.

Also, this deck won't ever beat GR Ramp and should be a huge dog to Naya, but collectively they're 3% online and I haven't seen a lot of them recently.

Sideboarding:

vs. Aggro (any, inc. master of the waves)
OUT: 4 Firedrinker Satyr, 4 Rakdos Cackler
IN: 2 Flames of the Firebrand, 2 Frostburn Weird, 4 Mizzium Mortars

vs. Doom Blade Control
OUT: 4 Shock
IN: 3 Act of Treason, 1 Hammer of Purphoros

vs. UWx Control
OUT: 4 Shock
IN: 1 Hammer of Purphoros, 3 Skullcrack

That's 90% of decks that I face online.

All feedback and thoughts welcome and appreciated.

[Helios]

Looks good, Z. I'm half tempted to rid myself of paper cards and jump on MTGO with that meta

Breaking Boros was a name I suggested in the Restricted Brewery for yarpus' Kuroda Boros list, but it never caught on.

I mostly just hate the convention of applying Shard/Guild names to decks that only represent those colors. An Esper deck is an artifact deck to me. That is a really bitchin name though. #petpeeves

[zemanjaski]

I always liked "Barely Boros" because I miss Petr Brozek so badly it hurts.

[Helios]

He is a master of all things Red, that is true.

[Khaospawn]

I always liked "Barely Boros" because I miss Petr Brozek so badly it hurts.

The man could do amazing things with a Zektar Shrine Expedition.

[Helios]

Ima let you finish, but Kuldotha had the greatest Goblins of all time.

[Khaospawn]

Ima let you finish, but Kuldotha had the greatest Goblins of all time.

They had cod pieces!

[zemanjaski]

Ill always remember LSV on Brozek at GP Oakland, "I didn't know what half the cards in his deck did, but they sure did kill me quickly".

[Link]

I think BTE is where you want to be at versus the 1-1 black decks. You get out ahead of their 1-1 removal plan by playing 2 threats a turn, ideally 2-1 drops but BTE lets a lot more of your deck come online faster. Haste is nicer on the play but BTE-> anything is even nicer and free wins are still a thing for her

[Link]

the only thing that can reasonably beat 1-drop into BTE+Firefist draw is literally only anger of the gods and like you said what % of decks play that atm?

[Calamity]

I'll try testing your new build out on MODO some Z, report back results

[InflatablePie]

re:Walter White - I like the extra layer of the joke where this deck plays different than you would expect a mono-red deck to play, like no one expected Walt being a meth cook. Also, Heisenburn. Eh?

I think if you're going mono-Red with BTE+FFS, might as well play the popular variant of Devotion Red. But I have no experience with MODO Standard so I'm biased by paper Standard.

[Khaospawn]

Heisenburn.

[zemanjaski]

^pretty much what Fate said.

RE: Devotion Red. It's hard to keep your devotion up against all the doom blades and I still feel uncomfortable going that heavy on the board vs. all the wrath decks; the other major archetype I face. This configuration with the full four Mutavault gives the the threat density I want vs. black decks and the sweeper protection I want vs. blue decks.

I'm giving up points vs. red; for sure; but I hope to make that up by:
- dodging the matchup as the devotion decks aren't that well positioned; and
- being a more experienced red mage.

[Calamity]

just played against a Grixis deck with where he tapped out for Ral Zarek and Ashiok with a lone Niv-Mizzet on the board at 10 life. I had 5 mana, 2 mountains 3 mutavaults and four power on board. EOT I magma jet and stick a shock on top. Next turn I animate two vaults swing and shock him for exactly 8.

It hurts my head that he likes the same colors i do

EDIT: Game 2 he just tapped out to play Inspiration on his turn. WAT
EDIT2: thought he was safe with a lone desecration demon, I sac a pyromancer to tap the demon down, swing in with a BTE, lightning strike for lethal.

How come everyone that plays desecration demon is bad? It certainly seems that way

[windstrider]

EDIT2: thought he was safe with a lone desecration demon, I sac a pyromancer to tap the demon down, swing in with a BTE, lightning strike for lethal.

How come everyone that plays desecration demon is bad? It certainly seems that way

Because all they see is 6/6 flyer for 2BB. They tend to forget its drawback.

[Helios]

Giving your opponents choices is bad, and decks with high creature counts are especially capable of taking advantage of DD.

Heisenburn.

This. I like this.

[Calamity]

Heisenburn is an epic name for a deck

[zemanjaski]

YP laughs at DD.

[dpaine88]

I was trying to come up with my own BTE list after facing Doom Blade decks in 7 of 9 rounds.

This looks like a good place though.

I still do really like Fanatic of Mogis though. Especially against decks without removal such as G/R Monsters and Mono Blue Devotion.

I've been thinking about Chained to the Rocks though and against everything but Master of Waves, I think Act of Treason would be equally good if not better.

Is there room for 1 Hammer maindeck?

[windstrider]

re:Walter White - I like the extra layer of the joke where this deck plays different than you would expect a mono-red deck to play, like no one expected Walt being a meth cook. Also, Heisenburn. Eh?

Dammit! Well, Walter White was a kinda cool name for the deck until Heisenburn.

[zemanjaski]

I was trying to come up with my own BTE list after facing Doom Blade decks in 7 of 9 rounds.

This looks like a good place though.

I still do really like Fanatic of Mogis though. Especially against decks without removal such as G/R Monsters and Mono Blue Devotion.

I've been thinking about Chained to the Rocks though and against everything but Master of Waves, I think Act of Treason would be equally good if not better.

Is there room for 1 Hammer maindeck?

In which variant?