[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Valdarith]

I think Lightning Bolt would actually be reasonable. Most of the creatures in the format are either x/2 or x/4, with only Deathmist Raptor and Fleecemane Lion being the relevant x/3s.

[Kaitscralt]

You're a fool and a dreamer Valdarith

[Kaitscralt]

and a communist

[hamfactorial]

Reprint Mao

[Mcdonalds]

Reprint bolt, I need an excuse to use my Korean fbb bolts more

[Mcdonalds]

At first I thought "seems good with painter servant"

Then I got real sad when it said non land

Laaaaaaame

[Mcdonalds]

Jim Davis just triggered the community

[Dane]

Jim Davis just triggered the community

And the fact that people vehemently disagreed with him, and actually pushed it to the point that star city pulled the article is just horrifying.

Fuckin' white knights and neckbeards. I'm actually raging right now to the point that I just can't articulate my anger appropriately.

[Self Medicated]

Didn't read the article in question, but saw that it was about women in MTG. Gimme the details.

[Dane]

Davis said, essentially, "Hey, it's actually kinda sexist/racist/whateverist to treat people differently on the basis of their sex/race/whatever, even if it's preferential treatment. In the case of women in magic, we should celebrate those who show exceptional performance, on par with others who perform excellently...not lower the bar arbitrarily to include some token amount so that others feel "welcome." Just be cool and decent to everyone."

Comments on the article and on reddit made it quite clear this was wholly unacceptable, and anyone who felt differently should be shamed and outcast from society. Men are bad, and women should have a lower bar in magic because feelings.

[Mcdonalds]

regardless, admittedly I've skimmed both articles but I don't recall the article written by the lady person encouraging preferential treatment,as such writing an article shortly afterward condemning preferential treatment seems both unwarranted and in poor taste

Never mind the editorial decision to publish it

[Dane]

I haven't read the other article, but there's been a LOT around reddit and other places recently about women in magic, and preferential treatment has been one of the main things that a lot of big voices are calling for, so I don't see it as in poor taste at all.

Then again, I don't ever see arguing against preferential treatment as in poor taste.

[Dane]

Am I the only one who thinks that a lot of the men who argue for this cause so vehemently, in secret, are interested in getting more women in the game solely out of a selfish desire to increase their odds of getting a "cool gamer girlfriend?" I mean, that's essentially the definition of a "white knight, "right?

You are not the only one. And I think it's the cool gamer girlfriend thing, plus looking all open minded and "womyn ally"ish for women outside of the game.

My wife plays. She hates being treated preferentially because she doesn't feel she's earned it just by being a woman. And most of the other girls that play there are...horrid. Just obnoxious and unpleasant. I don't want more obnoxious people playing, whether they have boobs or not.

[Kaitscralt]

Am I the only one who thinks that a lot of the men who argue for this cause so vehemently, in secret, are interested in getting more women in the game solely out of a selfish desire to increase their odds of getting a "cool gamer girlfriend?" I mean, that's essentially the definition of a "white knight, "right?

I've always been pretty open about this, everyone else is too cowardly to admit it

[Kaitscralt]

not so much a desire to get a girlfriend from it, but just preferring to have women around because they're who i'm attracted to and i prefer interacting with them

[Kaitscralt]

also I haven't done any arguing on behalf of women in mtg but I have agreed quietly

Basically nothing I'm saying is applicable, I'm tired and will make less sense with every post

[DarthStabber]

Who knew Chandra was Indian?

Yeah, it's a very Indian name. I used to work with a woman named Chandra, and her parents came here from India in the 70's.

Come to think of it Nalaar is also really Indian.

[hamfactorial]

I definitely should have checked my privilege before assuming the redhead was a white girl.

[DarthStabber]

I definitely should have checked my privilege before assuming the redhead was a white girl.

Hair dye is a thing. On the average day in St. Louis you'll see more black women with red hair than white.

Interesting side note:

I was listening to MaRo's podcast and he said that he believes that granting cards in graveyards flashback should be a red ability and snapcaster should have been red, and the next time flashback comes back he wants red snapcaster. Thoughts?

[hamfactorial]

Snapcaster Mage is the best red card ever printed!

[LP, of the Fires]

I'm for preferential treatment to a point as either a form of deferred entitlement(I'm a veteran), or as a form of closing a gap(I'm black, affirmative action, etc.)

As for the whole women in magic thing, I think it's a good idea to give more visibility to women in magic as being a minority, I DO understand and how seeing people who look like you doing something makes that something more appealing as something you can do and creates an easier transition into it if it where something you where interested in to begin with. It's something that's hard to understand for people who aren't largely considered an 'other'(sorry white guys).

As far as actually treating women, a big point is when you deal with them on an individual basis is that you DON'T treat them special. Whenever a new chick comes into a magic store, she's basically a unicorn and seen as something alien which guess what, alienates them and is bad. So basically the only preferential treatment that should be given to women that would be a benefit is on the macro scale of including qualified women commentators or featuring women on camera more(say once or twice a GP if the opportunity presents itself) which is solely for the sake of visibility.

Having said all that, Davis's article was well intended, but had some glaring issues with his nomenclature and examples but the backlash was abhorrent. I was excessively angry reading the comments of people talking about how aweful everything was. The PC culture we live in today leaves such a foul taste in my mouth and the fact that all these cocksuckers want equality or whatever but are unwilling to have civil discussion with people who are some combination of ignorant to the complexity of the issues at hand or simply have dissenting opinions is ludicrous. I mean I get it, but the way everyone just reacts with outrage is NOT how you enact meaningful change.

As far as them taking Jim's article down, while I'm staunchly opposed to censorship, I'm well aware that as Mav said, SCG has a bottom line to protect and in this context, them pulling the article is at least justifiable as something viewed so negatively for better or worse is potentially very damaging to sales.

[Jack]

I leave for five days and the entire magic community loses its shit (again)

In other news, you guys were right; getting drunk off of wine feels fantastic until it doesn't. I've never had so much fun brushing my teeth
Then I puked and had to buy my 6 friends wings to pay them back for making sure no trace was left for my friend's parents to find. Honesty, the worst part was knowing that my fuck ups became my friends' problems. Feels bad man.

[Kaitscralt]

Hanging out at friends parents, puking there, the 16 year old life of Jack

[Kaitscralt]

how are you guys surprised at the negative response to Jim's article, his audience is ponytailed guys in my little pony shirts

[Jamie]

I stopped reading Davis when he lied about how some dudebro at a casino came up to him and said he was overdue for a loss, and Davis literally could not believe what he was hearing and sperged out on some fictional person about the gamblers fallacy.

[Col. Khaddafi]

I always assumed this white knight crew deal is to get a minimum number of females in their neckbeard ecosystem so that they may get a chance at a pithy fuck, so why even bother when they throw in their regular internet tantrum number?

[Thrillho]

I firmly agree with lp's comment except for the part where he says anything about the article because I didn't read it and don't care about Prototypical White Nerd has to say about women in gaming.

[Thrillho]

It's about ethics in Magic the Gathering coverage.

[Kaitscralt]

Well they need to fire all the commentators for their commentating skills so it does open up some space

[LP, of the Fires]

The commentator one is easy because as Kait says, they just need to fire a bunch of commentators because they're all horrible on the WotC side.

Throw Melissa Da Tora's awkward ass in the booth. Better then letting Rashad touch a mic ever.

[Thrillho]

Good plan let's not try anything because it might not work.

[Thrillho]

that Australian dude doing commentary for the European GP this weekend spent the whole time trolling his co-host and players doing deck tech. I nominate him to replace all commentators in the event we can't hire women because their vaginas will make them commentate bad because of too much travel.

[Kaitscralt]

vaginas echo, bad acoustics

[Mcdonalds]

Melissa can't be worse than rich hagon

I mean she'd have to try to be that bad

[rcwraspy]

Your issue:

Too many cooks.

Women's issue:

too many cocks.

[rcwraspy]

found this on the topic, thought it was educational. https://ajsacher.wordpress.com/2015/06/ ... explained/

[Valdarith]

AJ's a fairly intelligent person. I skimmed through the article and overall it was good. Some of his analogies were weak, but he nonetheless got his point across.

This doesn't change the fact that reactions to Jim's article were ridiculously blown out of proportion.

Also, most arguments that refer to "privileged" tend to be very offputting and even unbearable to read, but AJ presented his argument in a way that this was not the case here. That's honestly the first time I've experienced that.

[Valdarith]

Oh, and I won the local Legacy event today.

[Mcdonalds]

I stopped reading at "mansplaining."

I mean, you got pretty far if you stopped at mansplaining

[Kaitscralt]

For whatever reason, I have now read every article involved with this. Jim's article was pretty trashy and full of crap but it shouldn't have been pulled, and the "rebuttal" articles are as bad or worse. I tend to side with the white knights in matters like this, because I wage a private war against the common FNM player, but it doesn't mean I revolt against anything trying to broach the subject from a non-tampon-up-the-ass angle.