What happened to burn? Has not put up results in 3 weeks!
Grand Prix Moscow 2014 (16/06/14) 1st place by Igor Gorbunov?
[deck]Rw Burn by Igor Gorbunov[/deck]
Lots of placing online as well, but
I'm sure you most likely don't count them.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:32 pm
by Purp
Yeah I forgot about Gp Moscow, my bad! Of notice though, eidolon seems to be doing better in the states, while YP$ seems to be doing well overseas.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:42 pm
by zemanjaski
I won't bother to repeat the list of name players who prefer Young Pyromancer.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:43 pm
by Purp
I don't care about the names of players who prefer young pyromancer (we all do)... I care about what puts up results that will affect what I expect to play against.
Sideboard (15)
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Mizzium Mortars
3 Satyr Firedancer
1 Anger of the Gods
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Wear & Tear[/deck]
Day 2 meta:
Black Devotion 46
Blue Devotion 42
WU Control 25
Jund Monsters 22
Boros Burn 20
WB Midrange 20
Black Aggro 8
Boss Sligh 7
Esper Control 7
Junk Midrange 5
Naya Aggro 5
White Weenie 5
Other 27
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:01 pm
by zemanjaski
I don't care about the names of players who prefer young pyromancer (we all do)... I care about what puts up results that will affect what I expect to play against.
Only caring about what puts up results is why you follow and don't lead.
Eidolon is bad. It puts up results because it is overwhelmingly played.
That is not relevant to its playability.
Do as you will.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:02 pm
by Rhyno
Worth mention that the highest placing GP burn decks (2 of them went 9-0 on Day 1) were playing Eidolon.
There's a lot of decks popping up in the current paper meta that Eidolon savages. Dredge is on example. Pyromancer lines up alright against it except for Golgari Charm.
The Junk decks running Doomwake Giant also hurt Pyromancer but fold to Eidolon.
Those factors combined with the slightly higher representation of Eidolon decks make the results unsurprising.
I know some people here still think Eidolon just sucks but whatever.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:04 pm
by Purp
So I should ignore the fact a bad card is overplayed when preparing for an event where said bad card will be overplayed?
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:24 pm
by Aodh
You can expect to face Eidolon, but that doesn't mean you have to run it.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:40 pm
by Rhyno
Purp didn't even suggest anything about running it, he literally just said the results are worth mentioning.
Ya'll are silly.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:08 pm
by Valdarith
Eidolon is anything but a bad card. It's perfectly maindeckable in the right meta. Now that red aggro is picking up steam I would not be comfortable playing it in the 60.
I think a lot of people are seeing that Eidolon is being played in Legacy and Modern burn decks along with netdecking the SCG Open results from the first few events following JOU and are just following suit. The card is obviously busted in the eternal formats, but much less so in Standard, so the incentive to run it is greatly diminished.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:54 pm
by Rhyno
Holy crap the most recent /r/spikes thread about burn is full of insanity. Even more than usual.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:36 pm
by zemanjaski
What actual finishes has Eidolon out up though?
And Purp, use basic reading comprehension man.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:46 pm
by Purp
YP$ has one GP win. Eidolon has no GP wins. That seems to be the only result you are interested in.
No need to argue, I currently play YP$.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:47 pm
by BrainsickHater
Holy crap the most recent /r/spikes thread about burn is full of insanity. Even more than usual.
O my lord it's painful. I can feel the cancer.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:26 pm
by Rhyno
Holy crap the most recent /r/spikes thread about burn is full of insanity. Even more than usual.
O my lord it's painful. I can feel the cancer.
I asked a guy about the "amazing results" he mentioned and he told me he almost went 4-0 at FNM.
I'm usually a pretty polite guy but jeez.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:37 pm
by NotARobot
Sounds like the guy was just 0'ing chandra repeatedly instead of ticking her up? IDK about that... Like vs white weenies he said chandra drew him 3 lands in a row while his opponent rebuilt his board... why not go for the ultimate? I pretty much always go for the -7 unless I'm desperately digging for chains or something..
Depends on how the SB of control/black decks change over the next two weeks.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:52 pm
by Rhyno
Some brewing(IQ in 2 weeks):
[deck]
SB
4 Firedrinker Satyr
[/deck]
Depends on how the SB of control/black decks change over the next two weeks.
I'd personally not run Firedrinker Satyr without 14 untapped red sources, it's too important to hit it T1 and 13 gives you a >10% chance of missing it.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:53 pm
by BrainsickHater
Sounds like the guy was just 0'ing chandra repeatedly instead of ticking her up? IDK about that... Like vs white weenies he said chandra drew him 3 lands in a row while his opponent rebuilt his board... why not go for the ultimate? I pretty much always go for the -7 unless I'm desperately digging for chains or something..
Idk I'll usually just draw cards if I'm not killing anything or pushing through damage, especially if I have creatures on board. Against control I would probably tick up as if I resolve an ultimate I probably win on the spot.
Depends on how the SB of control/black decks change over the next two weeks.[/quote:64ssu919]
I have enjoyed running more creatures as the Shota version of the deck does. I've found it very easy to switch between offense and defense, a luxury that Eidolon and Mortars do not afford.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:59 pm
by Rhyno
Sounds like the guy was just 0'ing chandra repeatedly instead of ticking her up? IDK about that... Like vs white weenies he said chandra drew him 3 lands in a row while his opponent rebuilt his board... why not go for the ultimate? I pretty much always go for the -7 unless I'm desperately digging for chains or something..
Idk I'll usually just draw cards if I'm not killing anything or pushing through damage, especially if I have creatures on board. Against control I would probably tick up as if I resolve an ultimate I probably win on the spot.
If I'm the
control player I'll usually just tick up if I've stabilized. I'll have quite a few dead cards to flip anyway (Chains and Mortars come to mind).
Your goal here is to close the game out as fast as you can without opening yourself up, so I +1 unless I can safely put them to 0 faster than I can ult Chandra.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:17 pm
by BrainsickHater
I think that it's oftentimes fine to 0 in the same situations that you would +1, although +1'ing certainly seems like the better option to me.
However, I feel very uncomfortable ticking up Chandra unless it's my current plan for victory or I'm REALLY stabilized. If I'm low on cards, or my board is pretty empty, I'll 0 just to be safe. If I feel safe and my opponent has a high life total, +1'ing seems good tho.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:20 pm
by BrainsickHater
But I can recall some times when I 0'ed and I should have +1'ed. I think I'm way too adverse to risk of any kind, and 0'ing Chandra feels safer to me because if I lose her afterwards I feel like I got value. I do the same thing when deciding between plays that involving shocking myself or not; I'm much more inclined to not shock myself because it feels unsafe. I should start taking the time to evaluate these things as opposed to snap-making decisions based on how I feel.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:32 pm
by zemanjaski
What's the thinking between 2/2 eidolon t/t? Id think that eidolon is most of the time better in the matchups where you want those cards?
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:36 pm
by Khaospawn
Eidolon is a source of repeatable damage, no?
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:15 am
by BrainsickHater
What's the thinking between 2/2 eidolon t/t? Id think that eidolon is most of the time better in the matchups where you want those cards?
Yeah I basically cut Toil // Trouble for Eidolon in the side once I figured out they were good in the same places.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:43 am
by magicdownunder
T//T is slightly safer then Revel vs control since you never really know what control will side in, thus I prefer the Russian list 3/2 split or if your lacking space just 4x T//T.
Manabase
Why arn't I running Mana Confluence? This version of burn is almost a control deck with the number of removal I'm running in my 75 so I need a REALLY good reason to take all that pain
Why I'm I running 1 Temple of Silence and 1 Temple of Malice? 6 Scry lands = more choices which gives you more chances too either win or lose.
MD Removal Suit
Jund is the current topdog online follow by Bx Devo and Ux Devo so not running 4x Chains and 1x MM would be silly.
SB
2 Banishing Light is a my answer against Ux Devotion (I know lots of you here believe the MU is a bye, but its one of the few MU which can just kill you if you don't have CttR or
BL on the spot)
1 Reprisal and 1 Fated Conflagration are for all the Ghost and Monster decks (I wanted too go 2x Reprisal but I felt that I needed that 5th MM for SBD and BBV)
3 Mizzium Mortars a must have if your not on the Dancer package
4 Toil // Trouble, 2 Chandra, Pyromaster, 1 Mutavault are my preferred anti-control package
- - - - - - - - - -
I count the 1 Keening Apparition as my flex spot, still thinking about it.
Still prepping for Thursdays MOCS8 Grind-a-Ton so the basic SB guide is still in its works (hopefully I'll get it done by Wednesday).
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:59 am
by BrainsickHater
But most of the time I think it's still better.
EDIT: I think Eidolon is still better most of the time, that is.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:03 am
by zemanjaski
The part where the guy argues he almost 4-0'd a GP one time was great.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:15 am
by Whole
that Squabbles123 guy has to be trolling.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:16 am
by NotARobot
The part where the guy argues he almost 4-0'd a GP one time was great.
Not even GP, just FNM lol.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:17 am
by zemanjaski
Geeeeez. Big game.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:18 am
by Kaitscralt
for him it might have been
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:31 am
by Purp
Well, for me its sort of a speculatory thing that will change with the weeks coming.
My store is typically very diverse when it comes to these events. There are always a few hexproof fuckers (just hoping to dodge that tbh). Typically esper is the control deck at my shop, but I expect a shift towards UW. We have alot of players that will typically just pick up the most recent winning deck, and run it (hence why some slots are subject to change).
Here is my thinking based off this past weekends GP:
I think control decks will continue to shift away from Dsphere, which will also push BG Devo decks towards mono black. I think these mono black decks will then shift towards NVS to combat a rise in mono u and a down swing of monsters. The thought is that control decks will have a lot of last breaths, so my plan of being to go one drop into 2 drop (either eidolon or yp$). So now on turn 3, I am hoping they would be tapped out,
to either resolve a phoenix or a toil. Hoping that one drops/eidolon eat last breaths to allow my phoenixs and mutavaults to stick around.
I think mono blacks will all be playing 4 duress for 4 pharikas cure, 2 eidolon sort of helps as an additional threat that can offset their life gain from cure.
I am playing 1 drops because it makes my mulligans a LOT more consistent, and allows me to play spells later in the game. I also like eidolon as a 2 of against mono u.
Granted, this is all theorycrafting on my end. If control move towards more spot removal and less burn hate, and black moves towards more pharikas cure and less discard, it could change.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:37 am
by DefeateR
Managed to day 2 GP Chicago with Shouta's list, modified with Zem's recommendations (-1 Mutavault, +1 Temple of Silence; -1 Reprisal, +1 Mizzium Mortars in the board). Unfortunately some rough match ups and draws (Along with a fair amount of misplays, I'm sure) led to a very poor day 2. The deck felt very good. I feel the jund match up is very good now, and I feel much better against Mono U with this sideboard plan. Of course the Mono Black match up is as good as ever, and Chandra remains a complete all star, winning me at least 4 games over the weekend. Three mutavaults definitely feels better, as I only drew two early one game. The 2nd reprisal may have been more helpful than the mizzium mortars in the games I played, but that's not nearly enough of a sample size to say what is best.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:01 am
by Purp
Congrats on your finish! Mind posting up a report if you can remember?
Reckoner vs Mortars... gah I wish I could test more!
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:10 am
by GoblinWarchief
Is B/G still the most popular version of black devotion ? It recently seems that mono black and B/R are increasing , so it could be good to play assemble the legion again. It's not that bad against B/G too, because they must have golgari charm on the spot to deal with it, and their charms will most likely be aimed at pyromancers / chains/ banishing lights if they don't eexpect assemble.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:13 am
by Purp
My thoughts on assemble:
It takes up 2 slots in a matchup that I already feel is in my favor. If it had more uses in other matchups, I could maybe see it.
