[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Link]

Looks good Khaos >_>b

I might've overstated my hate for Skullcrack. Its a fine card for what it does. There's no other card you want against fog, and its decent against lifegain. I just didn't like the style of not tapping out.

But yeah if you want to see pyrewild in action, I REALLY think he has a place in KDW. Keep their board clear with all your burn, power through on the back of a lone ash zealot/frostburn weird/Hound+ Pyrewild. I think he's awesome at cleaning up after you've burned everything to ash KDW style. I just don't think he has a place in kill them as fast as possible and smash their feeble attempts to stabilize Gruul

[Khaospawn]

I can get behind that logic. I guess I'm just hoping to use my buddy as a testing guinea pig so I don't have to do any real testing right now. I'll admit, I can be lazy at times.

[LP, of the Fires]

I've grown to hate skullcrack less and less. It's great against control since it's a straight swap for searing spear(-a million card advantage against the sphinx deck) and you're only really holding it up after you've emptied your hand.

I will say, I might be going to San Diego for a PTQ this weekend and if I do, I have a LOT of sideboarding practice I need to do if I decide to go with 20 land gruul as opposed to 24 land Mono-red Aggro Midrange. I'm learning that my mono-red deck is less of a win the tournament deck, more of a top 4 deck. Losing in the top 4 of a PTQ is NOT something I want to do.

Fate, if you could give a quick SB guide and opinions on act in the board for:

Aristocrats

Jund

Esper

Junk Rites

And Mirror

That would be greatly appreciated.

[Link]

Aristocrats:
My friend that won states ran this, and his list didn't even feature lingering souls. They can be tricky if you don't know what version they are on, but Pillar of flame is the key card against this MU. Takes care of Traveler, High priest, Silverblade if they are running it, Cartel if you really care, blood artist, etc. Reckoner is another card to be afraid of, but firefist striker+GCR are your outs against him.

I think Gruul has a fairly good MU here though, and I'm not too afraid of them. IMO this deck can only get engines going and be tricky on the offensive. Force them to play D and they'll never have enough gas to stop you. Sac outlet+Tragic slip is nice and all, but they have to room to breathe to get that engine online. If you stop attacking for a single turn (aka if they land a reckoner with no firefist/GCR just spear it if you have to, but don't stop attacking) they can
take over the game with Sorin or Falkenrath at 4.

Jund:
Jund doesn't have cheesy white spells and lifegain. I like playing against jund. I like winning through miracled bonfires too. Don't be afraid of Volcanic Strength here. "but they can 2-1 with removal!" How much removal does jund run that can deal with a suited up GCR? A couple putrefys now? Have something die and slip?

The guy who won SCG Open Charlotte said Domri does some work here, but I've never boarded him in against red. Sure he might draw you some threats, but his ultimate will never happen. Pit fighting olivias and huntmasters can be nice, but what are you taking out for Domri? What threat that actually kills Jund are you removing?

Also I'm gonna be adding pyreheart wolves to the SB, and they'll come in against Jund. In their attempts to get ahead slowly pyreheart wolf just says "lolu" and makes their ramp into thrag unappealing and their abrupt decays silly.

-Firefist striker (he'
s gonna get bonfired for 1 hardcast every time, and pyreheart wolf+VS replaces his effect)

I don't add in pillars because Jund doesn't run Arbor elf lately and spears are enough IMO for jund's small creature list. Olivias and huntmasters die well enough to them.

Another weakness of Jund is their 25+ land. If they go long with you and your deck is nothing but threats and 20 land, you're going to come on top. The only thing I'm afraid of in a Jund list is multiple thrags (aka lifegain) but pyreheart and VS deal with that. Liliana is never a problem then you're playing BTE chains and Garruk is way too slow. Jund actually doesn't have enough tempo or card draw, so they usually play at the same pace than us and we're just stronger and faster.

Esper:

Um. a Bye? Domri's make this MU even more of a joke. If they have slip into augur into azo charm into verdict they have it. But most times they don't and they run a shitton of land too. I take out reckoners because Esper
removal doesn't care and put in Domris. Try and save Domri to throw down after an Azorius charm for maximum fuck you and swings. He's a game winning threat that they have limited answers to, just d-sphere and rings.

You can also take out spears if you're not a fan of reach (I used to and just board in pure threats) and put in pyreheart if you saw resto angels and snaps G1. Pyrehearts survive verdicts and can be the difference between hellriding for 4 alone or for 7 post board wipe.

I don't think you want to be on the skullcrack plan. Skullcracks don't kill augurs in the way of your nobles. Unless they are desperate Revving for 2 or 3 and you crack them and get lethal next turn..... It doesn't really help. They'll pay the life for you to waste a card any day. Cracks really only shine against faithmender+thrag or trostani lifegain that's just too big to overcome.


Junk Rites
Pyreheart is the king here. I had tested skullcrack for some success, but I think it was just
confirmation bias. Yeah you can go under them and hold up mana for crack, crack a thragtusk and then there way to stabilize was just ripped from them with the 8 point life-swing. It was nice, and I learned to "love" skullcracks in testing, but in the field it was different. Figuring what to board out FOR cracks is the hard part. I was boarding out all my lil guys (1 drops) for pillars, elecktrickery, and ended up taking out spears for for cracks... Spears take out early blockers and let the game BE in our favor, whereas skullcrack is just an "uhoh" button in case they START to stabilize. I've also found unless you have a nut draw BTE hand (which you win with anyway) your hand hasn't been dumped by the time they ramp into Thrags.

-4 Noble on the draw, -4 cacklers too
+4 pillars +3 pyreheart +1/2 elcktrickery (can probably live with cutting a spear. Only kills centaur healers and you don't want to be spearing their thragtusk. Burn is also less relevant against lifegain, burning their
dorks and lingering souls is more important).

Don't have too much advice, because they stabilize so incredibly hard. One Tusk down with a rites anywhere on the field and its probably game unless you can swing for lethal. Again Pyreheart is how I was beating him back before I threw together the firefist striker list, and I imagine him+Wolf is going to be the key to constantly get in for damage. Also firefist striking instead of GCRing a thragtusk is good because then its not dead and they can't re-animate.

AoS? Is AoS. I don't run threatens but she's the only reason I would. And even then its not guaranteed a win unless they are at 6 and you have mark of mutinies. That's why its important to go as far under them as possible (and why I don't take out 1-drops on the play. I'd probably cut spears again and just overrun them with evasive threats. Not sure what I'd take out for Pillars which is good to have too. Its really just a gross match-up that I SB for on the fly.)

Speaking of Threaten, I
wasn't a fan. Its too much dilution and relying on their draw. I rather just have more creatures to bash them in/activate Battalion with pyreheart wolf. Yeah you fold to a T4/T5 angel, but who the fuck doesn't fold to nut draws again?


Vs. Mirror
Not going to lie, don't have much experience here. I've played countless naya blitz players and I just laugh and their inconsistencies. I've had one beat me back when I was really bad (instead of spearing a champion and ruining their tempo... I rancor'd my noble for 2 extra damage. Next turn he had a 4/4 champion and I looked dumb). I bring in pillars and elecktrickeries and generally just end up outracing them after I remove a few things since they've shocked once or twice or three times.

As for true mirrors, well I think you have more experience than me.
Tbh my friend that plays Mono Red has creamed me every time. Haven't played him since I took out Rancors, but I still imagine that ash zealots, more burn, and
frostburnweird would just take a dump on everything I even try to do. Good thing its not popular? >_>b

Conclusion:
Since the deck is so streamlined its really the key to figure what to take OUT rather than what to take in. I mean, I don't really need to tell you what cards are good against what cards, you know that. But think real hard about which of your threats is LEAST effective in a MU...and cut that card. For instance firefist striker is bad against flash decks, but everything else is good. So I'd board out him for pyreheart wolves, and put in Domri for a slow 1 drop on the draw (aka nobles).

[rcwraspy]

I'm missing an Ash Zealot.

I'm fucking missing an Ash Zealot.

I'm missing a fucking Ash Zealot.

WHO STOLE MY ASH ZEALOT!?!?

[zemanjaski]

MJ has broken DGM draft; he is 21-2 in draft right now (I do have 1 more video to watch); crazy ridiculous. If you're into draft, you NEED to watch his last week's worth of videos:

www.twitch.tv/darkest_mage/videos

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm missing an Ash Zealot.

I'm fucking missing an Ash Zealot.

I'm missing a fucking Ash Zealot.

WHO STOLE MY ASH ZEALOT!?!?

Was totally me.

Speaking of Ash, I just remembered something awesome that happened last Wednesday that I forgot to share with my redbros.

I was going to post a story, then I realized nobody probably cared to read a wall of text. Basically killed someone by dealing exactly lethal with Ash Zealot when they flashbacked Think Twice. It was pleasant.

[Kazekirimaru]

I see Terminus is actually less than Supreme Verdict, now. Last I checked the former was eight and the latter was three. What happened there?

[Link]

breathe rcawr, I'm sure its just shuffled in somewhere strange >.>b

Ty for the link Zeman. I really suck at draft... last time I tried to make a grixis deck that had UC, thoughtflare, with its only iwn con as like carnival hellsteed or somethign and a shitton of removal

It bombed

[rcwraspy]

ima get you kaze!!

ok i'm not. flashback hate rocks btw.

[Kazekirimaru]

ima get you kaze!!

ok i'm not. flashback hate rocks btw.

~900 miles is a long drive to retrieve a 3.00USD card. Then again, it's also a long drive to snatch one...

[rcwraspy]

I had so many decks with Ash floating in and out of them. I had taken at least 3, if not the full set, from RDW to test in R/g BTE aggro. Then I sleeved Alex's Boros deck, which took other cards from RDW. Then I sleeved Ced Phillips's Jund Aggro which took some cards from like everywhere. I ended up desleeving RDW entirely. Now I'm sleeving up Dos Rakis and can't find my 4th Ash. Sad panda.

[rcwraspy]

ima get you kaze!!

ok i'm not. flashback hate rocks btw.

~900 miles is a long drive to retrieve a 3.00USD card. Then again, it's also a long drive to snatch one...

My dad grew up in South Bend and I'm sure he still has cousins in the area. You better watch it!!

[Kazekirimaru]

ima get you kaze!!

ok i'm not. flashback hate rocks btw.

~900 miles is a long drive to retrieve a 3.00USD card. Then again, it's also a long drive to snatch one...

My dad grew up in South Bend and I'm sure he still has cousins in the area. You better watch it!!

Agh. I
forgot about call-in family favors.

[photodyer]

Here's where my head is--I'm in the mood to play something other than aggro. I like black control, but I cannot argue that it's not quite there right now (M14 Standard looks like it will have room for some black control...I can wait). I also cannot argue about the strength of green...that color is deep right now. Junk is obviously a very strong palette, as is Naya. Still, I don't really want to play Reanimator; am I just being a stubborn blockhead?

Blood Baron of Vizkopa seems relatively strong in the meta--He blanks pretty much all of Reanimator's threats (assuming use of removal for Tusk, which is not an issue in black), and he's pretty solid against many of the other big players in the meta. If he can't be dealt with, he's going to take over relatively quickly. I know he competes in a slot with Ghost Dad, which is a house, but he lacks vulnerability to legend rule and most removal
that's seeing play. He also seems like he could be a complete blowout on a field with Ulvenwald Tracker, though Tracker generally draws fire the moment he shows his head (I see it as a SB card). I'm thinking Junk, midrangey, lifegain, but with plenty of good removal available. Nighthawk likely makes sense in aggro matchups, so this may be looking like a Junk offshoot of Sam Black's proposed vamp list, but with Tusk and maybe even Messenger (obviously this would require a big black commitment and may not be viable). Which then of course starts making Resto look good...

Thoughts?

[Helios]

Happy birthday Alex!

Finally got around to listening to RAM. Holy shit is that some sick guitar work. Great stuff.

If anyone else is into Chinese movies, I just watched Dragon/Wu-xia and The Sorcerer & the White Snake (I'm a sucker for Jet Li). Dragon was pretty good, recommend it. Good fights, good message, solid movie. The Sorcerer & the White Snake was the Eastern version of a Western generic fantasy movie. It revisits a classic folktale with a twist. Very pretty, the story was OK, and Jet Li's character (who is, oddly, not the hero) was well-developed. That being said, I prefer the more realistic martial arts movies, so this one was as exciting to me. Well made movie though. On Dragon, it is largely based on legends of qigong masters and the things they could do, and the "not realistic" parts were believable, excepting the deus ex at the end. That was a little bit of a let down, but the character
redemption was worth it.

[zemanjaski]

https://soundcloud.com/dondiablo/daft-p ... d-x-oliver

http://www.earmilk.com/2013/05/21/mashu ... y-week-89/
Get:
- robin skouretis; get funky
- rems79; the finale look
- elocnep; noisestorm and doctor p started a fire in 212
- koyote; looseRAD

AWW YEAH. Shame it is only wednesday

[Helios]

Halfway through Don Diablo. Good stuff Z, thanks for the share.

[zemanjaski]

The Koyote track is ridiculous.

[photodyer]

Can't get streaming here...

[zemanjaski]

https://soundcloud.com/djkoyote/loosera ... -bootleg-1

[TubeHunter]

Here's where my head is--I'm in the mood to play something other than aggro. I like black control, but I cannot argue that it's not quite there right now (M14 Standard looks like it will have room for some black control...I can wait). I also cannot argue about the strength of green...that color is deep right now. Junk is obviously a very strong palette, as is Naya. Still, I don't really want to play Reanimator; am I just being a stubborn blockhead?

Blood Baron of Vizkopa seems relatively strong in the meta--He blanks pretty much all of Reanimator's threats (assuming use of removal for Tusk, which is not an issue in black), and he's pretty solid against many of the other big players in the meta. If he can't be dealt
with, he's going to take over relatively quickly. I know he competes in a slot with Ghost Dad, which is a house, but he lacks vulnerability to legend rule and most removal that's seeing play. He also seems like he could be a complete blowout on a field with Ulvenwald Tracker, though Tracker generally draws fire the moment he shows his head (I see it as a SB card). I'm thinking Junk, midrangey, lifegain, but with plenty of good removal available. Nighthawk likely makes sense in aggro matchups, so this may be looking like a Junk offshoot of Sam Black's proposed vamp list, but with Tusk and maybe even Messenger (obviously this would require a big black commitment and may not be viable). Which then of course starts making Resto look good...

Thoughts?

I don't think this is what you are looking for photo (May be a bit aggro), but this is what I am playing online to a suprising amount of sucess

Junk Beats
[deck]
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Ulvenwald
Tracker
4 Gyre Sage
3 Strangleroot Giest
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Renegade Krasis
4 Advent of the Wurm
4 Desecration Demon
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Putrefy
1 Oblivion Ring

1 Gavony Township
1 Forest
4 Overgrown tomb
4 Temple Garden
3 Godless Shrine
3 Isolated Chapel
4 Woodland Cemetary
4 Sunpetal Grove

SB
2 Thragtusk
3 SIn Collector
2 Golgari Charm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Sever the Bloodline
2 Ground Seal[/deck]

On the Baron: He is a great creature period. His card at this time reads: Immune to all removal not named Mizzium Mortars, Unblockable, except Thragtusk. But therein lies the problem. he dies to Tusk... I can see him making an impact for sure, but the fact that he loses 1v1 against the #1 card in standard really hurts, especially at the same mana cost. That being said, if he gets going, some decks just flat out lose to him.

[Link]

Helios we just watched House of Flying Daggers today... Definitely going to check out your picks

Have to say Bruce Lee is my hero though when it comes to Chinese

[zemanjaski]

https://soundcloud.com/elocnep/noisesto ... in-the-212

Amazing.

[zemanjaski]

Blood Baron looks really good post rotation.

[photodyer]

@TubeHunter - Interesting list...and emphasizing the point that Junk has some real depth right now. How is the mana working? It seems like Strangleroot Geist might get stranded in your hand here or there; double and triple green seem a little scary given the amount of balance you have between the colors, but I'm talking though my hat. Is it playing well, or might Farseek make better sense than creature-based ramp? Dryad Militant seems like it would be at home in the deck as well...hmmm. And Garruk Relentless seems a decent fit in place of GPH; he doesn't get you a bazillion-card draw, but he can tutor up Baron or Obzedat FTW or pump them for stupidly large swings if you've been trading dudes in battle.

Very interesting...

[Sasky]

Yeah the baron is really bad now when stacked against Thragtusk and Wurms. Tubehunter's list looks great, but I've had too many bad experiences playing decks that fold to supreme verdict -> sphinx's revelation.

[zemanjaski]

MJ's latest draft deck (won a 64 man draft):

[deck]
1 Basilica Screecher
1 Cloudfin Raptor
1 Faerie Imposter
1 Kingpin's Pet
1 Mindeye Drake
1 New Prahv Guildmage
3 Opal Lake Gatekeeper
1 Terrus Wurm
1 Ubul Sar Gatekeepers
1 Vizkopa Guildmage
1 Voidwielder

1 Death's Approach
1 Far // Away
1 Last Thoughts
1 Paralyzing Grasp
2 Pilfered Plans
1 Warped Physique

1 Jace, Architect of Thought

1 Dimir Cluestone

1 Azorius Guildgate
1 Dimir Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Simic Guildgate

6 Island
2 Plains
4 Swamp

Sideboard
1 Catacomb Slug
1 Inaction Injunction
1 Mindstatic
1 Nav Squad Commando
1 Purge the Profane
1 Zarichi Tiger[/deck]

Realistic.

[photodyer]

Yeah the baron is really bad now when stacked against Thragtusk and Wurms. Tubehunter's list looks great, but I've had too many bad experiences playing decks that fold to supreme verdict -> sphinx's revelation.

I'm not sure I follow here, Sasky; pretty much all the creature decks currently in Standard take a hit from board wipe into Rev with the exception of Reanimator. If you're going to play a creature-based strategy, you have to play around Verdict.

As to both Tusk and Wurm relative to Baron, I think Baron blanks a lot more creatures than he gets blanked by and he has major upsides. I also think that this list would benefit by playing some number of Selesnya Charm, as it can exile
either Tusk or Wurm, or alternately let Baron win against them with added lifegain.

[zemanjaski]

https://soundcloud.com/robinskouteris/getfunky

[LP, of the Fires]

Lets see...

@Fate: THANK YOU SO MUCH. So far I've only tested the jund matchup. On the play, I'm like 80%. My deck is a bit different from yours. I run 2 maulers, 2 firefist strikers, 3 pillars and a mortars. My boarding strat on the play was simply -3 pillar, +2 mortar, 1 Blasphemous Act(Never drew act, decided it was terrible, no longer in the board). I figured out that if I have a reasonable draw, I beat everything but Olivia. I'll consider -2 striker, + either wolf or VS. On the draw, I definitely play -4 noble, + something that gives evasion. I like wolf more then VS, but since I actually play a shit ton of jund, I've grown accustomed to how they sequence removal and I feel comfortable in my ability to dodge abrupt decay.

@RC: Coincidently, I found out I'm missing an Ash Zealout as well and for that reason alone, I decided to not play TNM and just watched draft instead.

@Z: Definitely going to check it out.
Today was the first day that I got to discuss draft with the good drafters at my store and I talked my friend into drafting a red agro guild. He mispicked and misplayed some, but his deck was mostly disgusting. He 2-1'd but could have easily 3-0'd if I was allowed to coach during his matches.

Highlights of his Rakdos Deck: 11 2 drops including triple riot piker, 2 Gorehouse Chainwalker, and 3 battalion guys. He also had a couple hasty beaters and racecourse fury or whatever( 1 mana land aura land has tap: target creature gets haste) which actually did MAD work. If he had picked up some dynacharges and weapon surges...the deck was just gross. He made me look like a genius. Then of course, there was the guy who opens stomping grounds, gets passed voice 3'd pick, opens foil armada wurm, then gets passed D-sphere. Value.

@Jerry: You got to play with what your comfortable with and enjoy otherwise, what's the point? I don't think Baron is positioned particularly well, but that's soley because
thragtusk generally does his job better. If you can play a deck with resiliency that can answer thragtusk regularly, I say go for it. I like the idea of an esper walker variant that uses Tamiyo, Sorin, Lingering Souls etc. for board presence and tops out on Blood Baron and Aetherling.

I feel I haven't been contributing enough lately, so I'll just say you guys are awesome and these past couple days I've felt that the cumulative effort of the various clan members here developing magic technology has "leveled" me up. I don't know how to describe, though I imagine Khaos knows what I'm talking about as I remember him mentioning being ok, then destroying FNMs regularly. Personally, I consider myself good, but felt I had plateaued for a while. Now though, it just feels like I'm learning...more I guess? Or at a faster pace then I have in a while. Think of school I suppose. From arithmetic to algebra, you have a solid base and you grow incrementally through geometry or whatever. Then suddenly, you
find yourself moving through levels of calculus. Idk, rambling, love you guys.

[Christen]

Quick question, is Game Day a Regular or Competitive REL event?

[Platypus]

Quick question, is Game Day a Regular or Competitive REL event?

Regular.

[Christen]

Quick question, is Game Day a Regular or Competitive REL event?

Regular.

Aww, that means I can't be a dick if someone misses his triggers and whatnot.

[windstrider]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=yLsVGwNWOA4

Son fell asleep at 7pm and woke up at 3am. Wife has to work today, so lucky me, I am awake with him. He just dumped a bag of potato chips on the table. It's going to be a looong morning.

[Alex]

Random question: Why aren't you guys doing this in the Standard forums? :\

[Platypus]

Also, saw this on Sally. Pretty funny:

Colossal Whale

---

Ugh. I know, right? WotC sometimes just forgets to press the flavor button before they start designing. Or the common sense button...

Yeah, 5/5 for that whale is just too little.

Another thing funny about that picture is the drawing of the whale. Was it that hard to see that its mouth is on the left side of the picture and its eye on the right?

[photodyer]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=yLsVGwNWOA4

Son fell asleep at 7pm and woke up at 3am. Wife has to work today, so lucky me, I am awake with him. He just dumped a bag of potato chips on the table. It's going to be a looong morning.

Ah, my friend...and you just signed up to do it all again. But you know as well as I do that one twinkle-eyed smile from that dude makes it all worth it. Sleep is overrated...enjoy the wonder of seeing that scudder discover the world. And when it seems like it's all gonna overflow........remember that my daughter volunteered to babysit and that sanity is only a couple of beers and some shared laughs away!

[windstrider]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=yLsVGwNWOA4

Son fell asleep at 7pm and woke up at 3am. Wife has to work today, so lucky me, I am awake with him. He just dumped a bag of potato chips on the table. It's going to be a looong morning.

Ah, my friend...and you just signed up to do it all again. But you know as well as I do that one twinkle-eyed smile from that dude makes it all worth it. Sleep is overrated...enjoy the wonder of seeing that scudder discover the world. And when it seems like it's all gonna
overflow........remember that my daughter volunteered to babysit and that sanity is only a couple of beers and some shared laughs away!

Yeah, he's a cute little bug. And he actually wasn't that demanding at all this morning, for which I am very grateful. He's falling back asleep again.

I may have to take her up on that offer, especially if I'm ever going to play Magic any time soon.

[redthirst]

Random question: Why aren't you guys doing this in the Standard forums? :

Asshole Standard mods...