[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Solemn10]

Also, most played does not equal best.

It usually does, actually.

Ussually, but not always. I think price is a better indicator. That list has Fliinthoof Boar #4 and Geist of Saint Traft number 12. Flinthoof Boar is no where near as good as Traft.

Then again price takes eternal formats into consideration. LotV is not 50$ quality in standard.

[zemanjaski]

+1.

[TubeHunter]

Whenever I hear LoTV I think of when my cousin and I went to a store and bought 2 packs of Innistad, His had Foil Lilianna. Mine had motherfucking Rooftop Storm....

[zemanjaski]

I remember been passed LoTV as a 4th pick in draft once...I literally have no idea what the fuck was taken before me. I wasn't even in her colours, but hey, $20 card was a $20 card.

[Solemn10]

I mean, I can see why Mono red or "1 threat at a time" lists have a problem against "1 for 1 removal" jund over time, but over here in "dump your hand on the table and say "you better miracle something" land I have no problems.

You could dump your hand on the table but if they're still 1 for 1ing you then they will get to 5 or 6 land and they will land huntmaster, thrag and sire of insanity (most jund lists cut some RR for this guy.) and top deck wars is not where you want to be at vs jund.
Also the jund builds tweaked for beating junk and ones built for beating aggro and actually very different. When I net decked jund from the US I got stomped by blitz and had a hard time vs monored but after tuning for
the Japan meta I've had a good matchup against aggro.

[Link]

Yeah but since I dump my hand faster thanks to BTE, the 1-1s aren't enough as the BTEs beat him down (or the rancors I keep getting back or etc.) Huntmaster can't do shit against Boars or ash zealots, and there's always a spear for him (since he's the first creature you see usually).

Also I had another thought:

new Rakdos isnt playing stony because it has godless shrines now right? Why isn't it playing the new hammer of Goblin? Bloodursh in R/b as an excellent mana dump for a 24 land list?

Use it on Aristocrat/hellkite=yesplz?

[Lightning_Dolt]

Also, most played does not equal best.

It usually does, actually.

Ussually, but not always. I think price is a better indicator. That list has Fliinthoof Boar #4 and Geist of Saint Traft number 12. Flinthoof Boar is no where near
as good as Traft.

Then again price takes eternal formats into consideration. LotV is not 50$ quality in standard.

I look at it the other way. It is powerful enough to see play across multiple formats unlike most of the garbage we get in standard. That is why it demands a higher price; becuse it is inherently strong enough to see play outside standard.

[Lightning_Dolt]

top deck wars is not where you want to be at vs jund.

Lulz. How long has it been since you've used your RDW? Top deck wars are where you live with RDW. Sire vs RDW is not good, it's a craw wurm. RDW has an empty hand before you land Sire. You know that.

[windstrider]

Yeah but since I dump my hand faster thanks to BTE, the 1-1s aren't enough as the BTEs beat him down (or the rancors I keep getting back or etc.) Huntmaster can't do shit against Boars or ash zealots, and there's always a spear for him (since he's the first creature you see usually).

Also I had another thought:

new Rakdos isnt playing stony because it has godless shrines now right? Why isn't it playing the new hammer of Goblin? Bloodursh in R/b as an excellent mana dump for a 24 land list?

Use it on Aristocrat/hellkite=yesplz?

No. Dos Rakis still uses Stonewrights. The Shrines are only 4 lands, so they don't interfere too greatly with the deck's ability to produce red mana. I prefer Stonewright over the goblin since the pump effect can be
used at any time, not just during the attack phase.

I expect that the goblin will start seeing some use after Stonewright rotates.

[Link]

I see I see.

I mean I felt dirty with a single temple gardens trying to use stonewright... it just feels wrong to not be able to dump ALL your mana with your mana dump. Stony is pretty flexible for control mode too though

[zemanjaski]

'Walking-hadouken-man' is kinda good, yeah.

Anyone watch Berserk? I hear that is good also.

[Solemn10]

top deck wars is not where you want to be at vs jund.

Lulz. How long has it been since you've used your RDW? Top deck wars are where you live with RDW. Sire vs RDW is not good, it's a craw wurm. RDW has an empty hand before you land Sire. You know that.

Top decking in rdw is where you will be but isn't your goal. If I keep sire in vs aggro it's not the discard ability I want, it's the body itself.

Yeah but since I dump my hand faster thanks to BTE, the 1-1s aren't enough as the BTEs beat him down (or the rancors I keep getting back or etc.) Huntmaster can't do shit against Boars or ash zealots, and there's always a spear for him (since he's the first
creature you see usually).

I was taking bte into account. If I 1 for 1 blitz I'm taking 4-6 damage by turn 4 and I'd probably kill the creature in response to rancor.

[LP, of the Fires]

As a part time Jund player I'll way in.

For one, the deck actually does have a fair amount of play when you aren't nut drawing(farseek>huntmaster>Tusk). It is like delver in the fact that it's power level makes up for it. Think of how agro is "easy" because the deck goldfishing is usually overwhelming and looks skilless. Similarly, some jund draws make the deck look...scripted.

Secondly, reanimator is actually an even matchup at worst and some times, you play Olivia on turn 4 and you just win the game.

Against agro, I've played both sides and it actually feels even. Given average draws, I'd say it's slightly favorable for the agro player. I've gone 2/2 in tourney vs. Jund against some of the better players in my store. Game one is probably wildly in favor of the red player though if you have any semi-decent hand. Game 2...not so much.

Reanimator is a fairly low skill deck for what its worth
because of the nature of its game plan. Since I don't want to explain in so many words, It's a lot like the Primeval Titan Wolf Run Ramp decks but more consistent. Your first X plays are scripted and when you play your fatty, your in stage three and win at your leisure. The better you are as a player, the less combo oriented you want to be I'd say. You don't need craterhoof to win the game, you just need to grind with value guys.

[photodyer]

Well put, LK. I always liken Magic to chess in terms of depth...you can learn the basics quickly and play the game, but from there the depth of strategy one can choose to learn is utterly mind-blowing. Jund, Reanimator and for that matter RDW are all like that--you can pick up the decks without much background and play them servicably (RDW in particular is often pointed to as a great "starter" deck for new players). But learning to choose between lines of play, when to sacrifice, how to draw a board wipe...the full potential of the decks require commitment to learning strategy and learning to play the other person's deck in your mind. I'm at that struggle point now--trying to move into 2nd-level thinking and predictive vs reactive play. The struggle is making that investment in time to grind and learn.

Of course, this fantastic group bridges the gap between theory and practice...the wisdom and experience shared
her is priceless. Let's face it...you guys rock!

[photodyer]

16 hours until Spectrum pre-party...I'm bouncing around like a kid on Christmas eve! A number of artists are already in-town for a workshop that's been going on at one of the art institutes, so the meet-&-greet should be full throttle ahead.

Dan Scott and others have been tweeting all the stuff they're prepping for the show all day...I'm gonna go broke if I'm not careful because they are all bringing absolutely bad-ass artwork.

[LP, of the Fires]

Something interesting that actually happened playing my version of rdw(more midrange I guess with mortars and 4 5-drops) against mostly monowhite death and taxes style agro. In game 3, his turn 2 he plays Thalia, I have 2 mana and a spear in my hand. My friend James thought the play was spear my opponents face with Thalia on the stack. I usually trust his judement and I did keep a weak 7(cackler, spear, hellrider and something else) so I guess his logic was I race. I thought about it for a bit since I like to consider weird lines, but I decided I'd rather slow the game down a bit since I can break board stalls better and I don't like losing to fiend hunter. Long story short, we get to the midgame and assuming I had speared his face, there was a line that would have traded most of the board and put him within burn range of any topdecked 5 drop, hellrider or any burn spell. As it was, I ended up killing some guys, trading
creatures for a turn or two, then killing him with hellrider.

I'm pretty sure my play was better, but this illustrates the depth of some games and it reaffirms the fact that my testing buddies are really good, because even if his play was wrong, there's a lot to be said for the fact that he recognized that option before I did. Seeing more lines probably correlates to winning more games.

In other news, hubris has come dangerously close to loosing matches. At least 5 times in the last 2 days, I've 2-1'd rounds I should have 2-0'd because I saw the win in my head and got impatient to be blown out by my opponents single out that I could have easily played around. The worst was spearing my opponent during my turn only to have him blink his thragtusk, then reanimate his angel of serenity the next turn.

FIGURE OUT HOW YOU CAN LOSE THE GAME WHEN YOU'RE DOMINATING AND PLAY AROUND THAT.

[photodyer]

LK - Did you see that Whelan did the cover for the last Wheel of Time novel? My nephew gave me his copy to get signed this weekend...they art is remarkable and totally fitting for the finish of Jordan's epic saga.

[LP, of the Fires]

The one with the three women at the grave site? That piece was beautiful and I wish it was used for the final art piece. It was actually very powerful considering it's something so simple as the cover for a fantasy novel.

[Solemn10]

I started reading the first of the trilogy that was written by Brandon Sanderson, the gathering storm I think, but it was so different that I kinda lost interest. Maybe I should try again

[photodyer]

The cover of A Memory of Light:

[LP, of the Fires]

I was speaking of this original sketch that was going to be the cover.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... EwAw&dur=0

The actual art used is fantastic as well. And with that...I'm off to bed. A man only needs three hours right?

[photodyer]

That's awesome as well! Sleep well, LK!

[RedNihilist]

Also, most played does not equal best.

It usually does, actually.

Ussually, but not always. I think price is a better indicator. That list has Fliinthoof Boar #4 and Geist of Saint Traft number 12. Flinthoof Boar is no where near as good as Traft.

Stromkirk Noble vs Vexing Devil, though... there are too many variables

[redthirst]

Anyone read Memory of Light yet?

I decided I was going to reread the whold series before I picked it up, but then I got to Crossroads of Twilight and lost the will to ever read anything again...

[Kazekirimaru]

Anyone watch Berserk? I hear that is good also.

My sister got me to watch that a while back. Within fifteen minutes there was a bloody mess and dudes taking out five people with one swing of their sword. I was into it.

And good morning, everyone. I'm off for a run, then a nice long shift at the shop. Wish you all a pleasant day!

[Khaospawn]

I want to build an "All Creature" Naya Blitz deck to dick around with. Anybody got good list to put out? I pretty much have my creature list, but I could use some help with the mana base.

[windstrider]

Anyone read Memory of Light yet?

I decided I was going to reread the whold series before I picked it up, but then I got to Crossroads of Twilight and lost the will to ever read anything again...

I gave up on that series when one of the books kept introducing new characters and didn't advance any of the plot lines. Oh wait, that was almost every book after the fifth one.

[Christen]

Went 3-1 earlier on our LGS running the RG Aggro list I posted earlier with a few modifications. Gruul War Chant is a card. My loss is purely due to land screw and mulling to 3.

Junk Reanimator 2-0
BW Zombies 2-1
Jund Midrange 2-1
URw Control 0-2

Full report later in the RG thread.

[Link]

I watched Berserk a couple years back then rewatched it with my GF. Red mage approved for sure

[windstrider]

I keep seeing Skullcrack in red lists. I am inclined to think that this is not a good card. So why is it in these lists? Should it be a consideration, especially with Unflinching Courage out there?

[MattC]

I think the deal with skullcrack is that it's a card people think is good but in reality isn't worth the card. I don't mean to say that people are stupid or anything though. The card certainly looks powerful.

[Link]

After some playtesting against Bant auras... I feel like skullcrack is actually our only "out" there once they get a horseshit uninteractive lifelink creature on board.


Yeah more often than not we can "race" them and win (as in, just be more consistent since we don't rely on a single 4x enchantment card for the MU), but their decks are becoming a lot more creature heavy (and consistent). I've seen walls like Voice and Geists played now, and even fog in the frickin side.

I wouldn't say its powerful just because of how it forces you to play reactively instead of proactively in certain MUs. Its at odds with the deck, instead of tapping out efficiently for a threat (lets say youre stuck at 3 lands), you hold up 3 mana and they do nothing, then they reanimate an AoS because you DIDNT play that threat when you thought they were hopin for a thrag.

So yeah, I think it should be mainly for Bant auras (
and even then, the turn the lifelink comes down and swings the game you probably didnt hold mana up and played another threat), and sometimes for Ritse. Like if you see a Rhox faithmender you'll probably wish you have 3-4 in the board

[Khaospawn]

Skullcrack is the side is just a bad idea, no matter how you slice it. It's the same as sideboarding Reverberate.

See Z's argument against Reverberate and substitute Skullcrack for each instance of Reverberate.

[Link]

reverberate is a lot more narrow I think...

"Lifegain" is a pretty broad category of card, and it does actually hurt R/x decks path to winning.

I don't know if you've won through ever won through Faithmendered Thragtusk, but I sure as fuck haven't (lack fo hellkites/aristocrats for R/g).

And once Geist gets his lifegaining ghost pants on its just over

[Link]

aka I don't like skullcrack either or the idea of it, but its almost a "necessary" evil for R/g at least.

[Khaospawn]

You're basically holding up two mana "in case shit happens". Kinda like Chris Rock's take on insurance.

Put it this way: if I'm topdecking, I'd much rather see a creature or a Spear. Not to mention, a savvy player will pretty much know what you're holding if you're sitting on 2 red open and a single card in hand, and they'll play around that as much as they can.

With that said, I believe Skullcrack'so only practical application is against Fog decks, but those are far and few between. I still wouldn't use it though.

Skullcrack was made, and I'm quoting WoTC on this,as a "better" Flames of the Bloodhand for Modern. And in that format, at least in my burn deck, it's pretty good. Not great, but pretty good.

[Khaospawn]

Also, the Thragtusk+Faithmender + Restoration Angel decks are a bitch. Though that's why I play Conscripts and Wolf to get around that. It's a hideously tough match-up and I hate to be in that spot, but it's not unwinnable (is that a word?).

Also anybody see the new Megantic Sliver? Are they just making up words now? Megantic? Is that Mega and Gigantic?

[Link]

I mean he's definitely not worth the slot in sledgehammer. You've got a more powerful gameplan than to give a shit about lifegain.


But us little guys in sligh land?

Skullcracks 8 point lifeswing does make the difference sometimes (and thats when its bad, its good against bantchantments at least)

[Self Medicated]

Finally some relief. Just unloaded almost $400 worth of cards last night to pay for my mistakes from the past two weeks. Now to sell about $1000 more and I'll be good.

[Khaospawn]

Don't get me wrong, seeing a Geist with Courage and a Flight on it is pretty scary and probably GG but I just try to race them. If you can pillar a dork and start curving out then you have a good chance. Of course, an army of critters followed by a Hellrider can put the odds in your favor.