Dies to Removal

K

unvote

I read your post as "either Jones or Manders, but mostly Jones". Your theory that "bad NKs" come from "poor/new players" contrasts with the fact that you have one of the most experienced players as your main suspect. Like you said, they might be role-hunting, but also seemingly random night kills could nullify our protective role, if we have one, and that seems like a smart strategy too.

If there's a chance that they have a role-cop, I don't discard the possibility that PhantomS is on their team and that either him or the other had the vig ability and used it when they found the cop. This is pure speculation, I know, and I'm just keeping this option open, but I still have PhantomS in my townie column for the time being.

[quote="( G_R ) » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:37 pm"]I read your post as "either Jones or Manders, but mostly Jones". Your theory that "bad NKs" come from "poor/new players" contrasts with the fact that you have one of the most experienced players as your main suspect. Like you said, they might be role-hunting, but also seemingly random night kills could nullify our protective role, if we have one, and that seems like a smart strategy too.

If there's a chance that they have a role-cop, I don't discard the possibility that PhantomS is on their team and that either him or the other had the vig ability and used it when they found the cop. This is pure speculation, I know, and I'm just keeping this option open, but I still have PhantomS in my townie column for the time being.[/quote:
137truh4]

So Manders and GR are the scum. unvote.

Going to do some re-reading.

I'm going to say this right now, I can never be 100% on kpaca, but his play this game is easily more kpaca-town than kpaca-scum. This is my reading him, not me barning him.

I would very much like to hear what makes you so certain Manders is town, the guardian, because I'm much more likely to say if kpaca v. manders is said to be a legitimate dilemna then I will go Manders 10/11 times in this game.

The rest of his posts I have responded to. Checkbox, teefo. Both were horribly bad NKs. When I first saw that,, I my initial thought process was that either the two remaining scum are both poor/new players, or that they are power role hunting. The fact that they were both lurkers speaks volumes, as town lurkers are more of a liability to the town alive. And for those of you who don't know, basic games have 3 town power roles with at least one being a protective role, and another being investigative. That was why I was so hard into Jones about Yanni: Poor play or not, an uncced watcher claim is pretty close to confirmed town as it can get (although, CM flipping cop would mean Yanni would have been dead day 3 anyway). How did he know Yanni was lying,
regardless of poor play? Like Poggy, Yanni's playstyle is scummy, regardless of alignment. The question that keeps on dawning onto me is: Jones/Manders/myself/PF are probably the most experienced players here, with Manders/Jones probably being the stronger ones.

If this is your position, then how do you take Mander's hammer swinging without getting a vote count? Hell, that raised my suspicion as it happened and your analysis only solidifies that position in my mind.

unvote: the guardian vote: manders.

I'm not going to assume Yanni is scum because he didn't claim outright. That's just being entirely too presumptuous.

like why the fuck are you guys willing to lynch the town investigative role like what the actual fuck

A watcher sees who their target targets.

You lied about your role.

Goddamn you, Yanni.

Vote: Yanni[/color:
2zoob7tm]

Like, seriously. This is inconsistent as all get out.

I'm Jake the Dog, town watcher
I'm able to contort my body in a lot of ways and turn into a bunch of shapes so I can watch people during the night.
I get to see who visited my target at night

because I'm the town watcher... duh.

For reference.

Consistency in Yanni's claim. Inconsistency in Manders' reaction. What faction of player plays the game with inconsistent convictions? I think we all know the answer to this question.

Yanni, if my answer was so important that you made it a point to mention it in a previous post, why did you just ignore that you'd obtained it?

Coaching Yanni instead of voting at a stage where applying pressure is going to make the difference?

Also of relevance is Manders always having yanni on her top scum list without ever actually pressuring him in relevant situations while she went after khaddafi with one of her arguments being that khaddafi stood up for the idea that yanni could just be bad town. The argument there was that "khaddafi knew yanni was town and wanted to look good when it happened". If that was the case, why not lynch yanni first then go after khaddafi? Because Manders didn't want her scum buddy to die on day one.

imopen@: Are you even reading this thread?

Every word. Reading comprehension is actually a strength of mine. I understood you to be at L-2, sorry I felt the need to protect you until I heard people's responses to your post. Next time maybe I should let ximbad+whoever decides to vote when they haven't counted (manders) kill you.

imopen@: Are you even reading this thread?

Every word. Reading comprehension is actually a strength of mine. I understood you to be at L-2, sorry I felt the need to protect you until I heard people's responses to your post. Next time maybe I should let ximbad+whoever decides to vote when they haven't counted (manders) kill you.

Why are you doing things that aren't voting/ case building things?

imopen@: Are you even reading this thread?

Every word. Reading comprehension is actually a strength of mine. I understood you to be at L-2, sorry I felt the need to protect you until I heard people's responses to your post. Next time maybe I should let ximbad+whoever decides to vote when they haven't counted (manders) kill you.

Why are you doing things that aren't voting/ case building things?

I believe voting and forcing the guardian to claim count as voting/case building things

imopen@: Are you even reading this thread?

Every word. Reading comprehension is actually a strength of mine. I understood you to be at L-2, sorry I felt the need to protect you until I heard people's responses to your post. Next time maybe I should let ximbad+whoever decides to vote when they haven't counted (manders) kill you.

Why are you doing
things that aren't voting/ case building things?

I believe voting and forcing the guardian to claim count as voting/case building things

We're passed that. How do you feel about his claim? How do you feel about his case against Jones? Mine against Manders? Like... is it really that farfetched that people think you can't read?

Just saw Ximbad lurking. That dude need to post.

imopen@: Are you even reading this thread?

Every word. Reading comprehension is actually a strength of mine. I understood you to be at L-2, sorry I felt the need to protect you until I heard people's
responses to your post. Next time maybe I should let ximbad+whoever decides to vote when they haven't counted (manders) kill you.

Why are you doing things that aren't voting/ case building things?

I believe voting and forcing the guardian to claim count as voting/case building things

We're passed that. How do you feel about his claim? How do you feel about his case against Jones? Mine against Manders? Like... is it really that farfetched that people think you can't read?

Not posting has nothing to do with not reading. Man, you guys sure do like to speak in fallacy.

Anyways, I haven't commented on either of your theories because I am not really sure what I think about them yet. I felt that the guardian raised enough of a point about kpaca that I didn't want him killed while I was at work, but I'm not convinced by
any means.

I think your theory about Manders is also worth considering, but I am really not sure who to trust right now since I have at one point felt that every one of you was scum with the exception of Manders who has mostly been off my radar so far.

I don't want to be wrong on this lynch because if we lynch a townie (assuming there are 2 scum left) we are probably facing a 2:3 scum to town ratio by tomorrow. That does not bode well for our chances. We need that number to be 1:4 at least

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=32361#p32361:2beczqpr]imopen2 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:49 am[/url:2beczqpr]":2beczqpr][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=32356#p32356:2beczqpr]PhantomS » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:21 am[/url:2beczqpr]":2beczqpr][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=32339#p32339:2beczqpr]imopen2 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:10 am[/url:2beczqpr]":2beczqpr][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=32309#p32309:2beczqpr]PhantomS » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:35 am[/url:2beczqpr]":2beczqpr][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=32241#p32241:2beczqpr]imopen2 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:40 am[/url:2beczqpr]":2beczqpr][quote="The Guardian":2beczqpr]
imopen@: Are you even reading this thread?[/quoter]

Every word. Reading comprehension is actually a strength of mine. I understood you to be at L-2, sorry I felt the need to protect you until I heard people's responses to your post. Next time maybe I should let ximbad+whoever decides to vote when they haven't counted (manders) kill you.[/quote:2beczqpr]

Why are you doing things that aren't voting/ case building things?[/quote:2beczqpr]

I believe voting and forcing the guardian to claim count as voting/case building things [/quote:2beczqpr]

We're passed that. How do you feel about his claim? How do you feel about his case against Jones? Mine against Manders? Like... is it really that farfetched that people think you can't read?[/quote:2beczqpr]

Not posting has nothing to do with not reading. Man, you guys sure do like to speak in fallacy.[/quote:2beczqpr]

You take things too personally.

[quote:2beczqpr]Anyways, I
haven't commented on either of your theories because I am not really sure what I think about them yet. I felt that the guardian raised enough of a point about kpaca that I didn't want him killed while I was at work, but I'm not convinced by any means.

I think your theory about Manders is also worth considering, but I am really not sure who to trust right now since I have at one point felt that every one of you was scum with the exception of Manders who has mostly been off my radar so far.

I don't want to be wrong on this lynch because if we lynch a townie (assuming there are 2 scum left) we are probably facing a 2:3 scum to town ratio by tomorrow. That does not bode well for our chances. We need that number to be 1:4 at least[/quote:2beczqpr]

That's fair, and your patience is a good thing. It just would've been nice to have you say what you're considering is all. When you don't it looks like you're actively lurking. Just so you know.

I knew the guardian was at l-2, but I voted anyways. On second thought I decided to unvote so we didn't have to worry about the guardian getting cut off.

That said: vote: the guardian

@Jones: Alright you cocky bastard. If your that sure I am scum, put your life where your mouth is: If I flip anything other than mafia, you die tomorrow. Oh, and unvote and hammer this if you don't mind.

What is the point of this? Is this intended to be anythig other than a symbolic gesture?

As for the second mafia: I am in between imopen and GR. The former because he really has done very little for himself, barely reading, and not a single original thought, aside from barning the hot wagons at the time. GR
on the other hand has done very little work on his own, and his posts read more like a commentator than an actual player. I wouldn't put it pass Ximbad to be scum, but those two are my top picks.

This is where I really start to feel confident about lynching the guardian. Earlier in this post he sets up the dichotomy of kpaca or manders. His only reasoning for picking those two people out is that they are good at mafia. This line of reasoning, while not strong, is extremely convenient if the guardian is scum. If he gets one of the two lynched he can still push for the other's lynching tomorrow. On top of that he compiles a list of possible scum that includes everyone. Either he's trying to say that he thinks phantasmo is town, or he doesn't want to contradict himself when he pushes for whatever lynch seems most likely tomorrow.

This is in addition to this post:

Checking in.

I am fine with Ximbad, if no one wants to do Manders. There has been at least two votes thrown at him, and he doesn't even address them, only deciding in his last post to chase KJ.

Unvote MH, Vote Ximbad

You can see him leaving his options open here too.

He's too noncommittal and his reasoning when he does post it is weak.

I have no idea why people are unvoting the guardian.

Just saw Ximbad lurking. That dude need to post.

The leaving options open play is exactly what Manders is doing. Before we come to a lynch today, at least one that I'm on the train for, I will not settle for any less than a Manders' claim. She can't just hint at some lame power role and then leave it open like that. Not this late in the game, and I think that my case against her is easily strong enough to get two more people on this wagon.

I would like to see Manders address PhantomS' concerns before I vote her.

Oh hey guys, I'm leaving for the Bahamas for a week early tomorrow morning. Odds of me posting at all during my leave are extremely unlikely. Odds of you guys posting at all seem to be the same. Not sure if y'all want to replace me or what but I don't really care either way. I don't think I'll be needing to unvote Manders.

What is the point of this? Is this intended to be anythig other than a symbolic gesture?

Don't worry about it.

This is where I really start to feel confident about lynching the guardian. Earlier in this post he sets up the dichotomy of kpaca or manders. His only reasoning for picking those two people out is that they are good at mafia. This line of reasoning, while not strong, is extremely convenient if the guardian is scum. If he gets one of the two lynched he can still push for the other's lynching tomorrow. On top of that he compiles a list of possible scum that includes everyone. Either he's trying to say that he thinks phantasmo is town, or he doesn't want to contradict himself when he pushes for whatever lynch seems most likely tomorrow.

I realize you are new, so I will explain this out to you: Normally, when a vanilla town is reached to L-2,
unless there is some damning evidence to the contrary, you lynch him. I made the post, with the belief that I would probably be lynched, and therefore, my final words of wisdom. Since I was not lynched (yet), I will continue to try and actively scum hunt, but that post was my "final" thoughts, as far as the game was concerned.

I didn't pick Manders, I picked Jones, remember. Jones is one of the scariest mafia players I have played with, and one of the best busers I have ever seen. Even a noobier mafia would realize keeping a town Jones in would be very risky. My only belief is that Jones is alive either because he is mafia, or because Manders needs as many experienced players alive to not getting the "why are you still alive" syndrome (manders can confirm I used that very same trick in a few basics, and then they still shot her anyway ><). That is simply a theory, based on how I saw him push Yanni, his reasoning, lack of posts, and the status of alive players (which is all I can
try to do). Manders hit my radar early, but only for a rather minor thing, which is why between the two, I'd pick jones.

GR, I believe for my comment on him being super passive. I actually just caught a scum in a recent game for doing exactly that. It's a common technique for mafia to use, especially newer ones. My problem with imopen is that he refuses to take a stance on just about everything, even with both myself and PS are consistently asking him to post. The problem is that what imopen is doing is more common with being a new player, not necessarily new scum.

Anyways, I haven't commented on either of your theories because I am not really sure what I think about them yet. I felt that the guardian raised enough of a point about kpaca that I didn't want him killed while I was at work, but I'm not convinced by any means.

Clearly you are if I am about to be lynched, the town wants to do it, and you unvoted. If I raised "enough of a point" that
probably means part of my post, you either agreed with, or the thought crossed your mind as well...

Obviously the thought that Kpaca is scum has crossed my mind because he is supposedly the best player and therefore the player I am most worrie about. He has gotten away with posting basically no theories just like me but he is given a pass, is it because he's black? my guess is people are scared that if they lynch the best player and he was town, that they would be responsible for sinking the ship. I'm happy to lynch someone to move the game along if that's what people want but I would rather not lynch a townie just for the sake of progress

GR, I believe for my comment on him being super passive. I actually just caught a scum in a recent game for doing exactly that. It's a common technique for mafia to use, especially newer ones.

I'm sorry, is this phrased awkwardly, or is it a language barrier thing? What I understand is that you're saying that I'm being super passive as a scum technique? I'll just say that some people play aggressively and that I play passively. I like to be careful (most of the time) and I mostly ask questions. People have called me scum in the past because of this style of play, so it's not really something I'm gonna be too concerned about.

That said, I believe that all the points that you have raised about M.Jones could be very valid,
except for the fact that it's mostly speculation on your part. It may be like you said, if you flip town your logic will make sense. But right now I'm not convinced anymore that lynching you is the best course of action either.

That leaves us with Manders, who never answered my question about her ability and now that PhantomS has asked for a claim, I'd like to hear that as well.

We need to hit scum today, now that we lost a PR and PhantomS' shot has been used, a mislynch would give them a huge advantage.

Alright jerks, gone for a week. I warned you.

well it seems like it might take a week to hear from manders so w/e

I'm here, catching up. I'll do my best to be done today.

Also, fuck everybody telling me
to chill. I don't curse when I'm actually mad, I curse when people are being great card analyst.

You misunderstand. You can curse til the fucking cows come home and I won't bat an eyelash. But I do not agree with attacking others on what is a personal level, and I believe telling someone "fuck you" constitutes as this. Regardless, this can be discussed when the game is over.

Mine wasn't the first personal attack in the thread as well. I take offense at being singled out. You are a bad person.

Why are you taking this shit so personal? You're the ONLY one who's told someone else "Fuck you," though. That's what I have a problem with. But, then again, I'm known to be too sensitive in Mafia (i.e. I fucking hate the phrase DIAF because it's too aggressive for a game) so maybe I'm overreacting? Like I said earlier, we can discuss this, as a community, when this game is over.

Okay?

Isn't it possible that this
argument has everything to do with the game of mafia? Am I not learning about how you debate?

For example, you said earlier that you had no problem with cursing, but now you state I'm the only one that said "fuck you". That hardly matters if cursing isn't an issue. Other posts in this thread have said as much without stating so explicitly.

Now, gathering that you're just a bit off in terms of being consistent in arguments probably only makes it harder to read you, but this is all what mafia is about nonetheless.

Sure, it's a part of Mafia, but there's more we could discuss that is pertinent to THIS game we're playing RIGHT NOW. Not saying I refuse to discuss it now, but I don't really see much point in it.

And, yes, my problem is specifically with you telling whoever it was "Fuck you." I find that entirely too aggressive.

You're not allowed to attack one person for making personal remarks and then condescend to others. The problem isn't that you're doing what others do, it's that you do it while condemning them.

What the hell are you talking about? I do not believe he intended any condescension when he called kpaca "Sport."

Regardless, even if he did, it's NOT pertinent to the game, so why get involved?

That being said. You are all being a bunch of magumbos.

Best post ITT.

i'm willing to vote: the guardian in order to have him claim.

I would like to know your reasons for suspecting The Guardian.

For the record, I have my opinion of him pretty well locked in, and I'll reveal that once questions are answered.

I'm OK with lynching The Guardian. Let's hear that claim.

Why?

Then there's Manders. There are some things in The Guardian's posts when talking to/about her that seem suspicious to me. Specifically the part where they talk about Yanni's attempt at getting off the hook when he was caught lying.

You'll have to remind me. What ARE you talking about?

Two things:

Jokes can be a scum tell.

How do you plan to kill me tomorrow if you're dead?

Are you so sure I intend to ignore you if he gets lynched and flips Town?

@The Guardian: So you're basically saying that everyone who is not you or PhantomS and is alive now could be scum?

He said imopen or you. HM to Ximbad. How is that anywhere near everyone except him and PhantomS?

@The Guardian: So you're basically saying that everyone who is not you or PhantomS and is alive now could be scum?

Jones, you, and maybe imopen is everyone? Ximbad was more of an afterthought, since I can't see Manders or PS being scum.

imopen@: Are you even reading this thread? I am back to L-2, after Ximbad unvoted. So now, only Ps and Jones are on me.

@Jones: Unvote and
prepare to hammer, and I will just have to trust my flipping town means the rest will listen to me. I have to know Manders might have something to say about this. Just like in Family mafia, it feels like once I am confirmed town, my logic makes sense.

But humor me: If I flip town, who are the remaining two scum?

Oh, yes. Manders has plenty to say.

I, too, would like those of you currently voting for The Guardian to consider who their picks are for scum if The Guardian flips town.

K

unvote

Explain this unvote, please.

I read your post as "either Jones or Manders, but mostly Jones". Your theory that "bad NKs" come from "poor/new players" contrasts with the fact that you have one of the most experienced players as your main suspect. Like you said, they might be role-hunting, but also seemingly random night kills could nullify our protective role, if we have one, and that seems like a smart strategy too.

If there's a chance that they have a role-cop, I don't discard the possibility that PhantomS is on their team and that either him or the other had the vig ability and used it
when they found the cop. This is pure speculation, I know, and I'm just keeping this option open, but I still have PhantomS in my townie column for the time being.

So Manders and GR are the scum. unvote.

Going to do some re-reading.

I'm going to say this right now, I can never be 100% on kpaca, but his play this game is easily more kpaca-town than kpaca-scum. This is my reading him, not me barning him.

I would very much like to hear what makes you so certain Manders is town, the guardian, because I'm much more likely to say if kpaca v. manders is said to be a legitimate dilemna then I will go Manders 10/11 times in this game.

Why do you think this is Town kpaca play? Reasons, other than gut, would be nice.

I'm not going to assume Yanni is scum because he didn't claim outright. That's just being entirely too presumptuous.

like why the fuck are you guys willing to lynch the town investigative role like what the actual fuck

nA watcher sees who their target targets.

You lied about your role.

Goddamn you, Yanni.

Vote: Yanni

Like, seriously. This is inconsistent as all get out.

How is it inconsistent?

Situation one, Yanni didn't claim right away. Any number of reasons for that to happen, both from a Town perspective and a Scum perspective.
Situation two, Yanni was caught in a lie. While I don't enroll in LaL, lying REALLY is not a Town trait and should be suspected.

My only fault was voting so quickly, which turned out fine in the end, so meh.

Yanni, if my answer was so important that you made it a point to mention it in a previous post, why did you just ignore that you'd obtained it?

Coaching Yanni instead of voting at a stage where applying pressure is going to make the difference?

How the fuck is that coaching?

If you think that's coaching, you need a new dictionary. That is me interrogating.

Also of relevance is Manders always having yanni on her top scum list without ever actually pressuring him in relevant situations while she went after khaddafi with one of her arguments being that khaddafi stood up for the idea that yanni could just be bad town. The argument there was that "khaddafi knew yanni was town and wanted to look good when it happened". If that was the case, why not lynch yanni first then go after khaddafi? Because Manders didn't want her scum buddy to die on day one.

I did vote for Yanni before I did Khaddafi?

Yeah, pretty sure I did, though I can't research it right now.

Even if I didn't, yes, this is ONE interpretation of my actions, but it is not the CORRECT interpretation of my actions.

Not
much more I can say about that.

imopen@: Are you even reading this thread?

Every word. Reading comprehension is actually a strength of mine. I understood you to be at L-2, sorry I felt the need to protect you until I heard people's responses to your post. Next time maybe I should let ximbad+whoever decides to vote when they haven't counted (manders) kill you.

Why are you doing
things that aren't voting/ case building things?

I believe voting and forcing the guardian to claim count as voting/case building things

No, dude. You're sitting back letting everyone else do all the work. I've been watching it all game.

How many games have you played in?

That's fair, and your patience is a good thing. It just would've been nice to have you say what you're considering is all. When you don't it looks like you're actively lurking. Just so you know.

Psst. Hey, PhantomS.

THAT is the definition of coaching.