Dies to Removal

Got bored reading the thread so skipped the last 5ish posts.

I like how MDU's building his decks. 2s and 3s are fine as you're still keeping the same core of the deck while the other cards tend to function as "packages" rather then random cards. Instead of seeing 2 firedrinker satyr's, I see 6 1 drops which is fine. Since this deck excels in the lategame, I like the idea of trimming mediocre to bad topdecks.

Instead of 2 reckoners, I see 6 3 drops(reckoner/phoenix) and shoring up your game vs. creature decks.

I dont like MD mortars as they are dead vs control.

I have to disagree. Esper is just about the only control deck nowadays and they are running 2-3 Blood Barons. It's not technically dead.

instead of seeing 2 firedrinker satyrs, I see 6 1 drops

exactly. I do think reckoner/phoenix fill 2 opposite roles so its harder to count that as 6 3 drops

I was thinking of running just 4x Reckoner instead of Ash Zealot. Lots of removal at 2cc anyhow.

MDU just put another video up on YouTube for anyone interested.

Here is the first set of 8-Mans as promised (I think I covered all the main archetypes now, so you can review and set-up your own SBP (sideboard plan) mixing your ideas with mine):

Standard Elimination G1: Boros
Legion vs Gr Devotion (Event 6416524)
Standard Elimination G2: Boros Legion vs Gu Devotion (Event 6416524)
Standard Elimination G3: Split

EDIT: I'm missing the control MU, though I know from Lazer's last report he hasn't lost any full matches with them yet

@dpaine88 - Hmmmm Reck over Ash maybe worth exploring, IDK - I'm still favoring that 2x Chandra list with 3/2/2 split but I havn't tested it so I don't know (I'll post the SBP to Lazerburn today, and with luck we'll get some nice data)

instead of seeing 2 firedrinker satyrs, I see 6 1 drops

exactly. I do think reckoner/phoenix fill 2 opposite roles so its harder to count that as 6 3 drops

After I posted the reckoner part, I agreed, that it looked silly, but reckoners DO go well with maindeck mortars as they buy you time to find lands for Dragons against green decks.

Last Time

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[deck=MDU's Boros Legion]Lands 25
12 Mountains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
1 Boros Guildgate

Creatures 20
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 10
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars

Enchantments 5
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Assemble the Legion

Sideboard 15
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Last Breath
1 Legion's Initiative
1 Rod of Ruin
2 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Mizzium Mortars[/deck]

Here are some videos, show casing the deck against Ux and Bx (SB Plans included, really thinking about running a 2nd Legion's Initiative its really strong against Gx Devotion):

[
url=http://youtu.be/01x4RzTvFAw]Boros Legion Experiment (2-Man) + Commentary: G1 vs Ux Devotion[/url]
Boros Legion Experiment (2-Man) + Commentary: G2 vs Bx Devotion
Boros Legion Experiment (2-Man) + Commentary: G3 vs Ux Devotion

I also finish two other 8-Man's which I'll post in the following two days (which is perfect since I won't have time to play in the next few days).

I've been thinking about MD'ing Boros Reckoner, but I have trouble justifying them when the Bx MU can be rather challenging for this variant (still in our favor but challenging).

Here is the first set of 8-Mans as promised (I think I covered all the main archetypes now, so you can review and set-up your own SBP (sideboard plan) mixing your ideas with mine):
n
Standard Elimination G1: Boros Legion vs Gr Devotion (Event 6416524)
Standard Elimination G2: Boros Legion vs Gu Devotion (Event 6416524)
Standard Elimination G3: Split

EDIT: I'm missing the control MU, though I know from Lazer's last report he hasn't lost any full matches with them yet

@dpaine88 - Hmmmm Reck over Ash maybe worth exploring, IDK - I'm still favoring that 2x Chandra list with 3/2/2 split but I havn't tested it so I don't know (I'll post the SBP to Lazerburn today, and with luck we'll get some nice data)

Is Skullcrack necessary at this point?

Its pretty much the only way you'll beat UW control, whilst being good vs Esper, Bx and GW midrange as well.

Its pretty much the only way you'll beat UW control, whilst being good vs Esper, Bx and GW midrange as well.

Really? You can't just dragon them vs UW?

You side it in VS GW?

UW has sac effects and sweepers for Dragons, 4x Last Breath for Birds and a crap ton of life gain effects.

GW Midrange (which isn't really a deck) runs 6 ways of gaining tons of life.

Much like for the Bx MU SC helps insure you maintain your advantage.

I don't know, haven't had trouble with them. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Nah, its solid MU (much in our favor) I'm just trying to argue Skullcrack worth - you can certainly win without it but I think it does help.

Nah, its solid MU (much in our favor) I'm just trying to argue Skullcrack worth - you can certainly win without it but I think it does help.

I've been playing around with Legion's Initiative, and it's much better than expected. Alas, Big Boros isn't really doing it for me, at least not in the current trim.

PyroDragon is quite good (more rounded), I prefer the 'big' removal heavy variants for the Boros Devotion and Ux Devotion MUs mainly.

PyroDragon can win against the two mention decks, but its much easier when you have 4x dragons .

Yea so I have a PTQ this Saturday and did some sleuthing at the stores past results, States, which was 2 months ago was FULL of Mono Blue.

I'm gonna assume theres gonna be a lot of Blue and possibly black.

Thinking my best option is Big Boros and will be testing the next two nights, both in paper and on MTGO.

Then hopefully kickin ass at the PTQ!~

I am testing Boros Legion and the first time all season I am happy with the MonoUDevo match up

I am so pleased I have attached a picture

EDIT - I also have to publicly retract my statements regarding 2 and 3's of cards in the deck

I am testing Boros Legion and the first time all season I am happy with the MonoUDevo match up

I am so pleased I have attached a picture

EDIT - I also have to publicly retract my statements regarding 2 and 3's of cards in the deck

LOVE IT , I'm also enjoying Boros Legions's Ux MU - bit concerned about the Bx MU though...

Glad the new list is testing will

EDIT: I like that domesticate in the GY, I bet he was hoping you'll cast Reck.

I've been loving Legion's Initiative especially against caryatid decks. I'm testing boros legion, pyrodragons, and burn for the invi. I'm trying to gauge how much weaker boros legion is against control and mono black compared to pyrodragons.

I've been loving Legion's Initiative especially against caryatid decks. I'm testing boros legion, pyrodragons, and burn for the invi. I'm trying to gauge how much weaker boros legion is against control and mono black compared to pyrodragons.

PLEASE POST your result when you done, I need to find out that information as well but I'm swamped this week.

Boros Legion is really good vs Ux, Gx and Rx its just Bx and Control I'm a tad worried about, Lazerburn can you post your results here later as well?

I think you need to assume that Mono U, Mono B and Esper are going to be the most played decks at an invitational. Better players, who will have byes will be playing the top 3 decks. I wouldn't hedge on facing alot of Rx

Will post results later tonight/tomorrow

I think you need to assume that Mono U, Mono B and Esper are going to be the most played decks at an invitational. Better players, who will have byes will be playing the top 3 decks. I wouldn't hedge on facing alot of Rx

Rx was the forth most successful deck, it also outperformed Esper during the last GP (in top8) I think it will have some influences. That said anything with 4x Vaults and haste creatures will have a decent MU vs Control (vs Esper our Mortars become live), Bx is still favorable just not great - I think Chandra will help @_@, while we already know Boros legion has a good Ux MU.

MDU-

I am going to be testing extensivly tonight and on MTGO tomorrow for PTQ.

Could you help a bro out and give a slight sideboard guide? Not sure if thats what you meant by SBP or not but if you could send that my way, that'd be great.

I am testing Modded list with 2 Firedrinker, 3 Reck, 2 Chandra btw.

Boros Legions Testing Update

Played 8 more matches - WW 2-0, GU Devo 2-1, 2-0 (Chains and Mortars are key) Esper 2-0 (1 drops and Vaults battered him), RB Aggro (he then SB to control with Anger which caught me in G2) 2-1, GB Salvage/Commune Graveyard Deck 2-0 (this is a very favourable match up, they durdle to find a big monster, you Chain it), MonoUDevo 2-1 (Early beats and removal G1, he crushed me with Weirds and Nykthos G2, G3 I killed everything he played, Ash and Vaults for the win), MonoUDevo 1-2 (I kept a borderline hand G1 on the play and didn't draw into anything, G2 I had answers, G3 I mulled to a bad 5 and couldn't recover, putting this down to variance rather than being simply outclassed)

General Thoughts On The Deck
- The deck runs really smoothly, despite my earlier reservations about 2 and 3 ofs Multiple 2 drops is
actually really good
- I'm really liking drawing lots of land and being able to cast everything on curve Overloaded Mortars is far more common
- The deck is good against MonoUDevo due to the sheer volume of removal it packs
- Esper is still a very good match up even with 4 Chains and 2 Reckoner MD.
- MonoB is harder than earlier in the season - they are running 4 Pack Rats (which have to die right away) and often laugh at Dragons - but I think the match is still in our favour due to the sheer volume of removal we are running. I've not seen any BG so my Chains have been safe I'll be interested to hear what others think.
- I've not seen Chandra much, haven't drawn a card with her and ultimated her once (but opp was already on 6 life.) so while she is good here I don't think she is essential in the deck.
- I've not missed YP or Shock.

SB Thoughts
- Reckoner, Mortars, LB, Skullcrack are all excellent
- I like LI every time I draw it, the + 1 to Red is surprisingly strong and provided a lot more extra punch. I've not used the blink effect. 2 copies would be nice
- Haven't drawn/used Boros Charm much and not seen BG which is where I've needed them most recently. I do like having them around for the 4 damage though
- Have only seen Assemble once against MonoB and I lost that game anyway - board position not
strong when I cast it so it was too slow -- and once against Esper and it got Sphered. It's undoubtedly a good card but perhaps not essential ?
- Haven't seen Rod Of Ruin yet. I'm thinking of trying 3 LB but it's late so my mind may be playing tricks on me

I'll add my thoughts to this:

Chandra seems mediocre and unessential to what we're doing. Most of our aggressive guys have evasion of some sort and she's not going to be killing much, so IDK. I'm dropping her. I'd rather play Mortars full of dragons.

Assemble hasn't actually done anything yet, but I still like having it since I KNOW it's going to kill a mono-black player and against Esper, I've used it to bait D-spheres.

Echoing Lazers thoughts on YP and Shock. With not much small agro in the format, I don't think YP is something we necessarily want to be doing? If it crops back up again, then we can ditch the dragons, but for now, this is the way to go.

I overloaded a mortars and killed 3 blood barons. Just something cool I'm mentioning.

Did some testing myself tonight against Mono Blue and Costa Jund.

Was pretty even against Mono Blue cause I only played 3 games and I am pretty unexperienced with the matchup and had a tendancy to be too aggresive.

Destroyed Jund many many times.

I agree with Chandra getting cut. Though I think we already have a lot of spells that don't kill our opponent. Ie) 4 Chains, 2 Mortors.

Was thinking that the 2 Chandra should just go to any combo of Satyr, Zealot.

The other thing I was thinkign was 2 Boros Charm, its just a really nice card.

I added all the ash zealots and I'm debating on the third mortars vs. 1 random spicey card. I like adding mortars since it frees up a slot in the board. I'm very interested in adding something like wear//tear. Card is very versatile.

Edit:
[deck]Creatures:
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Boros Reckoner
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Ash Zealot

Removal:
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet

Lands:
12 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple of Silence

Sideboard:
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Skullcrack
2 Boros Reckoner
2 Last Breath
1 Rod of Ruin
1 Legion's Initiative
2 Boros Charm
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Wear//Tear
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion[/deck]

Current list. Elspeth and wear tear are being tested. Theoretically, tear is useful in a lot of matchups and Elspeth is a big game vs. green decks, mono-black and CAN be
good vs. other agro. It's entirely possible that she's better then the second assemble.

Additionally, I'm playing a 5th scry land making it slightly easier to see my one-ofs. Possible changes from THIS point include finding something better then Rod of Ruin, and possibly cutting a dragon and a land if I find myself needing to fix a matchup.

See, I'm not sure if those cards for the 2 Chandra are truely strong and useful enough. I really think the fact that Boros Charm is 4 damage to the dome no matter what the situation and potential for better modes, just puts it ahead of the Mortors and Wear/Tear.

What is your metagame like? I like in NE USA which is known for Control and Blue so I am leaning towards running 4 Satyr in the main.

Is yours heavy on red and green?

Elspeth seems like it might be really good actually, I mean we are running 25 friggen lands after all. A card you will rarely be dissapointed topdecking late . Good idea.4

Scryland idea seems good too actually.

I think 2 charms in the board is enough and I really like the mainboard so I'll stick with my config for now.

And yes, So-Cal is fairly agro heavy.

Fair enough, please let us know how Elspleth and the other Temple treat you!

Some thoughts:
If only Elspeth didn't cost WW and didn't kill dragons... you'll need 10 white sources for Elspeth or variance will kill you (I tried it so I know).

I think most red players underrate Chandra, she doesn't provide you any instance gratification like Dragons or FoM but she can win you games on her own (LOTS of my win with the pyro list has came of her back since I go full control mode and just focus on going ultimate) I wouldn't put her is the same category as a do nothing kill-spell.

LI is good, I can see the count being upped into 2x - but I think we need more dedicated hate on Bx, Control and Control so I don't believe we have much room.

@Dpaine88 I'll toss you my rough SBP, your welcome to make modification to it since its just a work in progress.

gamebreaking news: Legions initititive makes Ash zealot trade straight up with boros reckoners.

hook me up with a sb plan too MDU

oh and are there any matchups where you side out chandra? I've been fiddling with taking her out against Boros Devo but I haven't tested enough to gauge the impact of chandra in that matchup

We'll make this a DtR effect, I have no time to play atm - heaps of people are preparing for large events so lets just pool our data and ideas.

If we also include logic and explanation with why we do things that will help get the debate ball running.

Lost a game to Junk Mid when he was manascrewed but have SIX TERRORS for my 3 dragon, multiple phoenix draw. Reality right?

Good thing that's not a real deck >_>

In your SBP, your +/- numbers are uneven for Esper and U/W. I came to a lot of the same sideboard plans as you but I won't be testing till tomorrow. Just an idea, maybe Boros Reckoner isn't that bad against U/W Control. Maybe it's high casting cost is the drawback but it dodges Last Breath. It is really bad to play on turn 3 and have it wrathed right as you pass the turn. Maybe Reckoner is playable against U/W when you are on the play. Reckoner's biggest weakness is spot removal and U/W doesn't really have that for Reckoner except d-Sphere. I hate using this logic but drawing out their d-spheres clears the way for Chandra and Assemble.

In your SBP, your +/- numbers are uneven for Esper and U/W. I came to a lot of the same sideboard plans as you but I won't be testing till tomorrow. Just an idea, maybe Boros Reckoner isn't that bad against U/W Control. Maybe it's high casting cost is the drawback but it dodges Last Breath. It is really bad to play on turn 3 and have it wrathed right as you pass the turn. Maybe Reckoner is playable against U/W when you are on the play. Reckoner's biggest weakness is spot removal and U/W doesn't really have that for Reckoner except d-Sphere. I hate using this logic but drawing out their d-spheres clears the way for Chandra and Assemble.

Nice spot, in that case no Assemble the Legion vs control (they do have Jace).

nBoros Reckoner is bad vs Control, he isn't horrible or unplayable, just bad. Would you take him over Skullcrack, Boros Charm or Legion's Initiative for that MU?

Hmmm, now that I'm looking closer at the SBP I wrote I don't bring in Assembles that much... Maybe Lazerburn is right about upping another LI or just go with my Gut and add the 3rd Charm.

Maybe we can cut both Assemble the Legion and add the rest of the Boros Charms. Then we can side into Adrian Sullivan's 'sledgehammer' mainboard against control

Depends on how much this affects the mono-black matchup. I like the idea a lot though.