Dies to Removal

oh yeah, that was dumb. We pick a role and ability separately, so it doesn't matter that there are mafia and werewolf roleblocker cards. Then again it does highlight the possibility he's a non-town roleblocker.

There's also a town roleblocker card and I discarded the mafia one.

My concerns are:

A. Setup Design. Is there a set amount of killing scum that was a minimum for this setup?
B. Whether a Saulus can kill or not.
C. Whether we're dealing with a scum(s) who thinks he can get one or two mislynches, Ham, and RCW, in lieu of a kill, cause confusion, etc., has been roleblocked, has been doctored, has been bulletproof'd, has a restriction on their kill, etc.
D. Whether the primary threat to the town isn't a killing scum team, but a cult leader.

Looking at the setup cards, additional observations:

1. If we're dealing with a cult-leader, they only have one shot.
2. Does a lyncher count as scum?

I think we can be sure that there isn't a cult leader. If there was, Ham would have surely been told about him and not given himself up like that.

Oh yeah, or rcw is mafia but has no nightkill because he's saulus or whatever.

B. Whether a Saulus can kill or not.

Not sure why you both think this is relevant. I've already been lynched. The issue is whether I was Judas or Saulus, but whichever I was I'm neither any longer. Now I'm either Mafia Vanilla who can't kill (if I was Judas - the wiki says can't kill once Judas flips) or a Town Vanilla (if I was Saulus, which I was).

which means that if lynching Ham doesn't win the game, I'm the next logical lynch. Not sure what you do once I flip town and the game is still going, though.

My concerns are:

A. Setup Design. Is there a set amount of killing scum that was a minimum for this setup?
B. Whether a Saulus can kill or not.
C. Whether we're dealing with a scum(s) who thinks he can get one or two mislynches, Ham, and RCW, in lieu of a kill, cause confusion, etc., has been roleblocked, has been doctored, has been bulletproof'd, has a restriction on their kill, etc.
D. Whether the primary threat to the town isn't a killing scum team, but a cult leader.

A. I think all we got is this:

2b. if there are not at least 50% town roles, new cards will be sent out and roles will be repicked

I assume the game would have run with only a single threat. Balance was explicitly not guaranteed.

B. They can't kill. That is explicitly stated in the Judas role PM, and while not stated on the Saulus, them having a kill would make no sense. They don't know who the other mafia players are (would make for a pretty boring game after they've switched to town), so they have no one to coordinate a target with.

C. Possible. Does that matter? Do you have a good lead on who we should lynch instead?

D. Possible, but the damage has already been done since they're 1-shot. I thought Cult had a QT of their own, but checking the wiki, this appears to not be the case. hammy thinking he's the only cultist may not be true. Dechs should not assume that he would have been told about other cultists. It's possible also that others thought I was lying and targeted me to prove it, but we can cross that bridge when we get there.

Looking at the setup cards, additional observations:

1. If we're dealing with a cult-leader, they only have one shot.
2. Does a lyncher count as scum?

1. Right, so no big deal. Killing cultists can wait until we kill this cultist.

2. I doubt it? It's lumped in with the serial killers, so I'm not totally sure. I'll ask rezmo.

which means that if lynching Ham doesn't win the game, I'm the next logical lynch. Not sure what you do once I flip town and the game is still going, though.

Right, that's exactly where I'm at. If you flip town, we'll start trying to read people again. Based on my reads so far, I don't think that will be necessary, so I'd rather just get this over with.

I wonder if rez will show my original role PM, or the new one I was given after I was cultified. Exciting!

In case you get the new one, my cards were:

Town Vanilla
Mafia Tracker
Town 1-shot Kingmaker

Well, I was made unable to vote toDay, and I think RCW was yesterDay. Does that not bother anyone? Someone is trying to sabotage the town, and I kinda doubt it's just ham.

It's Dechs. He admitted to it yesterday. It's kind of an awful ability for a townie to have since he could just lose us the game at some point, but whatever. I have no doubt that he thought it would be super powerful when he picked it.

Well, yeah. I thought it would be an awesome ability. I've been hitting my second best suspect every time. I figure it helps to not have suspects participating in the Day. If that's not helping, I'll stop. No one even said anything about it till now.

somehow i missed that..hmm. i guess the ham lynch makes sense

Lyncher is a threat to town.

Well, yeah. I thought it would be an awesome ability. I've been hitting my second best suspect every time. I figure it helps to not have suspects participating in the Day. If that's not helping, I'll stop. No one even said anything about it till now.

I didn't say anything because I was still trying to read your intentions, I was already figuring that we didn't have many scum, and it's not a big deal in the early game anyway. It's in the late game that we could suddenly lose. The biggest negative now is that suspects voting is actually good for the town since you can get better voting patterns that way, but it's not a big deal. Just use it wisely, especially after another couple days (if the game lasts that long).

Yeah, I kind of noticed that a little late. It looked like such a good power (regardless of scum/town), but it's turned out to be very lackluster and it kind of makes me feel like a prick. Voting is such a big part of the game. It's like I'm playing Smokestacks in EDH (I actually approve of this, though).

I realize now I'd have been much better off choosing the Roleblocker ability and discarding this one.

Yeah, town roleblocker is a pretty rockin' ability. If we had both you and imopen blocking for the town each night? Damn.

Azrael? Can I vote now? Anyone else have something to do before we end the Day?

Also ready to vote.

Do it!

Haven't heard from WitchHunt yet today.

I don't like that we've effectively declared that we're not scum-hunting for the next two days, but presumably a cultist is a threat to the town as well since there's no possibility of reverter?

Verify that, and I think we should end the day.

Oh. Another possibility I just thought about. Mafia may have decided to switch sides by targeting Stardust, and lost their kill as a consequence?? Is that possible?

Haven't heard from WitchHunt yet today.

Yeah, my bad. I've been working extra shifts at my store since Black Friday is around the corner. I have another twelves hours to go today but I managed to wake up a bit earlier this time.

So we're lynching Ham because he's an easy target then, followed by Raspy in case he was a Judas instead of Saulus. I personally highly doubt there was only two scum (Balance issues being warned or not). (Raspy and Jaime) Especially since one was werewolf and the other one was potentially a mafia that couldn't NK. So that put as at what, 7-1(Kind of Mafia)-1(Werewolf) to start? Theoretically now we're 6-1(Cult)-1(Werewolf)-1(Mafia)? I'm not opposed to the plan, I'm just saying I feel confident the game will still be going on after they're gone.

One nagging part in the very back of my head is telling me Stardust could actually be a Cult one shot recruiter trying to play himself off like a Black Goo, but I'm not getting anti towns vibe from him at all and coupled with Ham's behavior I'll look at it with a grain of salt.

Der. Theoretically we're 7-1-1, forgot Raspy's potentially town. I just woke up don't judge me.

Haven't heard from WitchHunt yet today.

Yeah, my bad. I've been working extra shifts at my store since Black Friday is around the corner. I have another twelves hours to go today but I managed to wake up a bit earlier this time.

So we're lynching Ham because he's an easy target then, followed by Raspy in case he was a Judas instead of Saulus. I personally highly doubt there was only two scum (Balance issues being warned or not). (Raspy and Jaime) Especially since one was werewolf and the other one was potentially a mafia that couldn't NK. So that put as at what, 7-1(Kind of Mafia)-1(Werewolf) to start? Theoretically now we're 6-1(Cult)-1(Werewolf)-1(Mafia)? I'm not opposed to the plan, I'm just saying I feel confident the game will still be going on after they're gone.

One nagging part in the very back of my head is telling me Stardust could actually be a Cult one shot recruiter trying to play himself off like a Black Goo, but I'm not getting anti towns vibe from him at all and coupled with Ham's behavior I'll look at it with a grain of salt.

At this point imopen and Stardust are the ones I trust the least, but I can't point to anything overtly scummy in Stardust's posts. It's just a gutt feeling. Imopen's roleblock has been all but confirmed, but his alignment hasn't. Ham flipping Cult after a lynch would help confirm Stardust.

Yeah, there are tons of possibilities. We can spend another week talking about what could happen, or we could move on and make sure we even need to do the work. Lynching rcw next is my personal preference, but at least that's debatable. Lynching ham is the only move that makes sense right now unless someone has a really solid reason to think we've actually got a mafia who's kill was blocked both nights and a really solid reason to think a certain player is that mafia.

Since we don't...

Vote hamfactorial.

Oh. Another possibility I just thought about. Mafia may have decided to switch sides by targeting Stardust, and lost their kill as a consequence?? Is that possible?

Yes, this is possible. Why would they do that?

Can we get a vote count? I guess I'm fine with the ham lynch since he's admitted to being non-town, however, I don't like planning out future lynches, and I don't like laying our plans out for potential scum.

He's at L-1 right now.

Received confirmation that we can't win without killing Ham. Lynchers need to lynch or be lynched, too.

Vote Hamfactorial.

Oh. Another possibility I just thought about. Mafia may have decided to switch sides by targeting Stardust, and lost their kill as a consequence?? Is that possible?

Yes, this is possible. Why would they do that?

Strength in numbers. 3 cultists might have an easier time than a lone mafia player.

Yeah, but they wouldn't have a quicktopic or anything like that to know about it.

So, for tonight, consensus on who should I silence? Or are we better off if I'm just a vanilla townie from now on?

I hope this finishes the game.

Well, yeah, that's the hope.

But I notice I'm not alone in thinking it's probably not going to happen.

Yeah, but they wouldn't have a quicktopic or anything like that to know about it.

So, for tonight, consensus on who should I silence? Or are we better off if I'm just a vanilla townie from now on?

Doesn't really matter. If you have to target someone, rcw would be my pick, but him having a vote is not a bad thing.

Oh. Another possibility I just thought about. Mafia may have decided to switch sides by targeting Stardust, and lost their kill as a consequence?? Is that possible?

Yes, this is possible. Why would they do that?

Strength in numbers. 3 cultists might have an easier time than a lone mafia player.

How would they know how many cultists are out there?

They wouldn't. It'd be an act of desperation.

Dechs, I'd rather you targeted no one. If any scum role has a redirection ability, you're toast.

They wouldn't. It'd be an act of desperation.

Risk losing your nightkill for the rest of the game just for the chance to be on a team that you don't even know exists? Not likely.

Dechs, I'd rather you targeted no one. If any scum role has a redirection ability, you're toast.

Can you explain this? Why does redirection of Dechs' ability really matter at this point in the game? Frankly, I'd love it if that happened because then I'd know there was a redirector with little downside otherwise.