R/b Aggro aka "Dos Rakis"

[zemanjaski]

I haven't read the thread in any detail. I gave dpaine88 his list so that showcases my deck building philosophy. I might play the deck; I might also play UB Control; it would be similarly well positioned in the expected meta.

[magicdownunder]

I think UB Control with Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is a very underrated deck - MoW and Mind Control post-board vs Rx is sweet (one of the mocs players was testing it with me a few weeks back, its even better now with Esper Aggro running around).

He ran Pack rats in his version which reminded me of UB fae when he goes T1 Thought Seize, T2 Pack Rats and proceed to play the rest of the game on the Opp. turn - I'm not sure about the list posted in the clan thread, but I'm sure you'll do well in any event in Australia .

(That said you should play the Standard Qualifiers tomorrow on MTGO the comp. and rep will be better, esp. the finals if we qualify)

[zemanjaski]

I'm at work

[Purp]

MDU hopefully you keep us posted on your status during the tourney! what time will it start tomorrow?

[magicdownunder]

START TIMES: January 8, 1:00 PM PST, through January 14, running every 3 hours. (for us Aussies its on the 9th ) we can all play it since it designed to be flexible.

The hard part is getting spot in (I think these events will fill up fast - the payout is great, so I expect the "Pros/Grinders" to keep farming it even after they win a spot) so its best to just log in on the morning Q in advance and just play it after work (which is pretty much what I'm doing).

The Finals is on Sunday for us Aussies so that works for everyone (START TIMES January 18, 8:00 AM PST.)

[Pedros]

I didn't forget anything; scrylands don't change whether or not the mana base works; I'm just more conservative with my card selection. I like the list because I expect to see lots of control / midrange and the black splash naturally fights well against those.

Ok first of all can you post your current 75? Do you have different main?

As for scrylands they might help a mana little bit - we can then play 5-6 oncolor dualands.

You are saying splashing black, in my testing it is hard to splash black when running turn 2 jesters, and want to have rats + clone at 5 mana.

I know you are against double black - HDF is currently 0 off, sometimes 1 off in sb for later in a game. We moved to 2 whips from 1 whip, however some of us dont like this
change.

[zemanjaski]

[deck]Rakdos Aggro[/deck]
Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Pack Rat
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

3 Exava, Rakdos Bloodwitch

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Instants
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Shock
3 Ultimate Price

Sorceries
2 Dreadbore

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
3 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Guildgate

9 Mountain
3 Swamp
[/deck]

[photodyer]

[deck]Rakdos Aggro[/deck]
Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Pack Rat
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

3 Exava, Rakdos Bloodwitch

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Instants
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Shock
3 Ultimate Price

Sorceries
2 Dreadbore

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
3 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Guildgate

9 Mountain
3 Swamp
[/deck]

So PyroBlack Rb in charactier as opposed to more straightforward BR aggro, eschewing Jester and cutting back Rats in favor of generally more consistent mana. Hmmm...

[MattT]

I really like the "dragon option" and the "faster out of the starting blocks" reasoning is sound. Say:

[deck]Creatures
2 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Spike Jester
3 Pack Rat
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Bloodwitch
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Instants
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Ultimate Price

Sorceries
2 Dreadbore

Lands
3 Mutavault
4 Blood Crypt
4 Rakdos Guildgate
8 Mountain
5 Swamp[/deck]
I somehow believe the minor fault is the dearth of 1 and 2 drops. This slight increase would better the odds of that so important eot2 with 2 creatures out, which is what may be missing.

[hoeiberg]

[deck]Rakdos Aggro[/deck]
Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Pack Rat
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

3 Exava, Rakdos Bloodwitch

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Instants
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Shock
3 Ultimate Price

Sorceries
2 Dreadbore

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
3 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Guildgate

9 Mountain
3 Swamp
[/deck]

How much testing have you done with this? It is pretty similar to an Rb Pyro list i ran a few weeks back (an still have sleeved up as i haven't played since). That list runs Ashley and no rats though (because i suck at building decks ) and always seemed to lack late game punch, but otherwise seemed very strong. The rat could fix the late game issue, and if so i think the deck should be really strong. I'm definitely going to get my hands on some rats and test this (whenever i have time to play magic again). So glad you found the space for YP, it's my favorite card in standard an i would hate to cut it

We may soon have to think in lines of devotion as well if Mogis turns out to be good

[Purp]

We have all established RB Pyro will be good when guildgate gets replaced with scry land.

[RaidaTheBlade]

At a friend's, doing some testing.
first thing I noticed is that z's list up there, the pyro one, has too few black sources, I was hurting for them a lot.

Right now testing a list that is 73/75 the ptq list. just -1 rat, -1 dragon, +2 satyrs. Just an attempt to lower the curve and have more 1-drop chances, which has been really key in a lot of games in my experience.

Cutting a rat sucks, since it's so good, but that's what testing is for.

[MattT]

At a friend's, doing some testing.
first thing I noticed is that z's list up there, the pyro one, has too few black sources, I was hurting for them a lot.

Right now testing a list that is 73/75 the ptq list. just -1 rat, -1 dragon, +2 satyrs. Just an attempt to lower the curve and have more 1-drop chances, which has been really key in a lot of games in my experience.

Cutting a rat sucks, since it's so good, but that's what testing is for.

The trouble with the Rat in our deck vs MonoB is that their other creatures are solo players whereas ours are more synergistic. A top decked Cackler is ill compared to a top decked Desecration Demon. The result is that we have bigger decisions to make when we see a rat; take the rat route or the Haste
route. And if we go rat all other creatures become rats. I don´t like that rail roaded decision tree and thus prefer to have Rat show up a little later (read: 3 instead of 4 md) when we have the synergy going (read: Phoenix(es) in play/yard and redundant Cacklers in hand).

[RaidaTheBlade]

Took Z's PyroRakis list and switched one land from mountain to swamp to help my issues I ran into, and then rigged up a sideboard and sideboarding plan for it.

Put it in the pyro thread, but gonna quote it here, since it is also semi-relevant here.

---

Z Threw up a PyroRakis list in the Dos Rakis thread, so I took it and fixed an issue I had land-wise, and then rigged up a sideboard. I personally really like the list and will likely try it at fnm.
I'm posting it here, cause this is the slightly more relevant area. (YP$)

[deck]PyroRakis[/deck]

Sideboarding:
Vs U/x Devo and small aggro (rdw or ww):
-4 Cackler, -2 Satyr, +3 Mortars, +3 Doomblade

Vs R/x Devo and G/x Devo:
-4 Cackler, -2 Satyr, -2 Shock, +3 Mortars, +3 Doomblade, +2 Dreadbore

Vs U/W Control:
-3 Pack Rat, -3 Ultimate Price, +2 Erebos, +2 Rakdos's Return, +2 Dreadbore

Vs Esper Control:
-3 Pack Rat, -3 Ultimate Price, -2 Shock, +2 Erebos, +2 Rakdos's Return, +2 Dreadbore, +2 Mortars

Vs Esper Midrange:
-3 Pack Rat, -4 Cackler, -2 Satyr, +2 Erebos, +3 Mortars, +3 Dark Betrayal, +1 Dreadbore

Vs B/x Devo:
-2 Shock, -4 Magma Jet, -1 Ultimate Price, +2 Erebos, +3 Dark
Betrayal, +2 Dreadbore

Vs B/w Control or B/w Devo:
-2 Shock, -4 Magma Jet, -2 Ultimate Price, +2 Erebos, +3 Dark Betrayal, +3 Mortars
(I kinda wanna bring in the dreadbores, but wouldn't be sure what to remove. Hate to say it, but maybe Chandra?)


Any thoughts? Sideboarding might be a bit rough, but it's what I could come up with. I dropped whips from the side, because this list runs less black sources, and I don't want to create bad mana issues out of the side.

[Purp]

Deck is bad without scry land.

[Pedros]

Abandoning deck till scry lands ;/

[RaidaTheBlade]

I'm gonna stick with it for now. Might be the more aggro form, or might stick with Z's pyrorakis idea for a while, dunno.

I'm just gonna get in the practice and testing before next season.

[Pedros]

I'm gonna stick with it for now. Might be the more aggro form, or might stick with Z's pyrorakis idea for a while, dunno.

I'm just gonna get in the practice and testing before next season.

GL mate! Please remember to write reports (just quote is enough) here for us to keep this thread alive.

One thing: This deck SHOULD be good after expansion, as it has God (some says minoutaur based) and minotaur tribe that SHOULD be expansed (they lack 1 and 2 drops - 2/3 regen isnt bad, and have jesters, rats or pyro in this slot, however no minotaur, 3 drops are solid with reckoners and lord, 4 drop has fanatic of mogis and 4 has haste lord). With God and scryland this deck have to be good

[MattT]

I'm gonna stick with it for now. Might be the more aggro form, or might stick with Z's pyrorakis idea for a while, dunno.

I'm just gonna get in the practice and testing before next season.

Same here. The removal is more my "style" to quote the Sam Black debate, Pack Rat/Chandra/Phoenix is just amazing and I don´t see anything better than Exava in the 4-slot atm. Better keep sharpening skill until scry lands show at a minumum than go back and restart. Here´s current deck: (Not too exciting, but just because)

[deck]Creatures
2 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Pack Rat
4 Spike Jester
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Bloodwitch

Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells
2 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning
Strike
2 Ultimate Price
2 Dreadbore

Lands
3 Mutavault
4 Blood Crypt
4 Rakdos Guildgate
8 Mountain
4 Swamp[/deck]
I don´t think that Rat and YP$ fit together in an aggro build and the Dragon finisher was dropped over the early board presence strategy. Rat and YP$ are to much synergy waiting to happen, snarling up the offense. My internal debate goes whether Jester or Ashely is the better choice for the T2 aggro slot. Jester is so good with Chandra as the Falter plus the extra ping for a total of 4 damage is huge late game (I had to test him more to see that I confess, despite earlier doubts). Otoh is Ashelys FS better tech and allows shaving a Chandra for an additional Shock which again supports her tech.

@Pedros: If Scrylands is the only worthwhile showing in BNG it´ll still be great. Few pieces are missing imho. Of course if Mogis himself or some of his minions turn out to be da thing I wont mind...

[Aodh]

The deck can't be bad just because its tapped lands don't have Scry 1. The deck's likely bad because it has tapped lands in the first place and it wants to play guys every turn. The value of haste depreciates when you can't run a full suite of 1-drops or if you're casting your hasty creatures a turn late. Just my 2c. I've played various forms of Dos Rakis since rotation and Scry 1 would be helpful, but if you can forgo 1-drops in favor of a higher curve (re: RB midrange or so), then you're in business.

[Valdarith]

You mean like this?

[deck]
4 Spike Jester
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Exava
3 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Dreadbore
2 Ultimate Price
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

4 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Blood Crypt
3 Mutavault
3 Swamp
10 Mountain
[/deck]

[Googims]

@MattT
After trying to change things up for the pyroblack deck, I gave up on pyromancer lol.
I went with your deck and tested it out, got pretty good results. didn't really mulligan much, and 3 pyromasters were awesome.
have you tried it out with -2 saytrs for +2 stormbreaths? I would've but I had to play in a modern tourney

[RaidaTheBlade]

Went 2-2-1 tonight with the pyrorakis deck I posted earlier. Would/should have been 3-2 but I played too slowly game 1, and turns ended a single turn before I would have killed him.

All in all, fairly happy testing-wise. Might run it in a GPT tomorrow, or might end up staying home, not feeling 100%

Full writeup whenever I can.

[Keftenk]

I took 6th tonight out of 30 at FNM using Z's PyroBlack list with adjusted land + SB.
I got blown out by Dredge (I'm very angry at this actually) but smoked Mono B TWICE, 2-0 each time. Ultimately losing to RW Weenies in top 8....

I can write up a report if needed, but I was disappointed to be completely honest

[Deht]

I modified my list I used last Monday and went 3-1 (7th or 8th) at a 65+ person FNM using the primer list on page 11 but with no temples (7 mountains / 6 swamps - mana was a lot more consistant) and with 2x Slaughter Games and 1 Anger of the Gods in the side in place of Toil/Trouble & Hero's Downfall.

Round 1 - UW Control - 2-0

Round 1

---

G1. T2 Spike Jester, plus him shocking himself to verdict, followed by Cackler and Spike Jester another verdict, Sphinx's Rev, then Phoenix and Mutavault, then Elixer, another verdict, then Stormbreath to get him to 4. He started digging at the end of my turn (quicken, opportunity), then passed, I attacked with Stormbreath to for the kill, he Sphinx's Rev in response, end of attack step I went monstrous.

G2 Early Cackler pelted him a bit, he ignored, but once a Spike Jester hit the board he verdicted. I had an Erebos in
hand so I baited out counterspells dropping other creatures, dropped Erebos turning off his life gain and then drew a couple cards over the next turn or two. After he detention sphered Erebos, and I had a good grip of cards in hand, so decided to hit him with Slaughter Games naming Sphinx's Rev, he Rev'd in response and I got to see his hand plus library. His only other win con was a singleton Elspeth and his only creature was Fiendslayer. He also had two last breath and two Celestial Flares in hand. So I started throwing creatures at him and he killed everything I dropped as it attacked. Hit another Slaughter Games, named Elspeth, got a second peek at his hand and started grinding him down with Mutavault and gaining life with the Whip. Finished out the game with Magma Jet. Shortest UW Control matchup I've had.

Round 2 - Mono Black - 2-0

Round 2

---

G1 - Spike Jester early. He immediately attempted to go Pack Rat, but I burnt it out on
site. Cackler dropped. Got him down to 13, but he eventually cured both getting himself back up to 17. He went NVS I bolted it. NVS I bolted it again. Dropped two phoenixes and he'd remove them, I'd burn him get them back and re-cast. Exava hit the board and he drew his next card and scooped. He assumed I was playing the Rakdos Aggro list (I didn't confirm or deny).

G2 - T1 Cackler. He tried to Pack rat early again, I had enough removal to deal with it, so I burnt it out on, he made a rat and I dark betrayal'd the token. Dropped Erebos, then went all in on Pack Rats. He landed another NVS and started hitting me, but only hit a Phoenix and an Exava. He went Gray Merchant but with 5 Rats and Erebos active he had to chump with everything leaving him with nothing on the board. Next turn was a win. Opponent stated that he knew I had played mono black before and he also said he misread the deck pretty severely and wasn't expecting Pack Rat at all.

Round 3 Red
Devo splash Green for Domri @ table #2 (top table is #1) 1-2

Round 3

---

G1 - Spike Jester did early work, and by the time he locked down the ground I had Phoenixes. Dropped a SBD, had him at 3, he dropped an SBD and kept it back to block, dropped a second SBD and he scooped.

G2 - First hand was pretty much 7 excellent spells, no land, Mull to 6 with Guild Gate, Swamp, Mountain. Two removal, and Phoenix. His turn 3 play was Domri, and I then proceeded to draw guild gates for 3 turns while he went off. Close out of the game he had BTE, Reckoner, Stormbreath and Fanatic of Mogis out.

G3 - Started off OK, had early Phoenixes and burn to clear out his early game, had Whip and Chandra out and started to take control of the game, but then it was SBD, Domri, Reckoner, and he started just picking apart my board using Domri's Fight and playing conservatively. After that
it was something like something like another SBD, another Reckoner and a Fanatic.

I'll admit I haven't played against this matchup at all, so I followed the rough sideboard guide but I'm wondering if this matchup is not in our favor? The explosiveness of the Nykthos / Devo strategy seems pretty back breaking unless you have a grip of removal, and even then, they have a lot more creatures than we have removal. My assumption is the goal with this matchup is to put them on the defensive which I managed to do G1, but G2 was a good but slow hand with poor draws while G3 went well until Domri / Nykthos started going off. Any advice would help!

Round 4 Boros Heroic / enchantments @ table 7 2-1

Round 4

---

G1 - New player that had been playing since September. I was really confused initially as there was a three turns of draw, land, go from my opponent and he wasn't dropping down anything, he eventually dropped a singleton Phalanx Leader while I
had a cackler, Spike Jester and Mutavault out and I thought about it for a while and then decided to just let it live instead of burning it out with Magma Jet. Worst mistake possible. Next turn it was Chosen by Heliod & Madcap Skills, following turn Ordeal of Purphorus and Chosen By Heliod. I took something like 9 damage and he nuked one of my pack rat which I just dropped (hoping to chump a ton). I had him down to 9 with a possible kill the following turn but his turn went Madcap skills again, so I just scooped to head to game two. He breathed a big sigh of relief here and flashed Boros charm just to identify if I had tried to remove it or didn't block what he would've done but also identified that he was "out of gas" other than the charm. This game would have been over but I chose to ignore the Phalanx Leader when I had the removal ready to go... Live and learn, I guess.

G2 - Anything and everything he dropped I immediately removed. He started drawing only enchantments and
land, while I dropped three phoenixes over 4 turns. Closed it out quick.

G3 - We both Mull'd to 6. Early Phoenix pelted him down to 14 while I removed his creatures. Eventually he started voltron-ing and I was out of removal, but I had Phoenix and Exava on board while he had a 6/7 and he attacked with him at 8 and I 15 (he should've held back, imo) and I cracked back with Exava, Phoenix and Mutavault for the win --- I think he just missed this or forgot about Mutavault.

We chatted and I guess all his wins had been turn T4 and T5 with his opponents on tilt throughout the night.

First three opponents asked me if I was going to the PTQ Saturday, didn't even realize one was happening... But regardless, I'm not ready I think.... Next time I guess!

[RaidaTheBlade]

Time for my traditional half-asleep thought experiment list!

[deck]Rakdos Midrange[/deck]

Would like to stick 1 or 2 underworld connections or read the bones in there, but too lazy to math it out at the moment, so you just get the raw brain-vomit. Enjoy.

[MattT]

@MattT
After trying to change things up for the pyroblack deck, I gave up on pyromancer lol.
I went with your deck and tested it out, got pretty good results. didn't really mulligan much, and 3 pyromasters were awesome.
have you tried it out with -2 saytrs for +2 stormbreaths? I would've but I had to play in a modern tourney

Yep. It´s good for the end game, but it upsets the early board presence. It might be that trying a traditional curve and less support spells might work if a decent 3 drop shows. Half this thread is about a top end heavy curve and it works too, although I prefer the more controlish Rat plan for longer games over the top decked dragon. It´s the missing early beats that often allows the opponent to recover over the lack of knock
out blows in this deck imho.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Added 2 underworld connections and gave it a sideboard, cause I think it might have potential.

Thoughts?

[deck]Rakdos Midrange[/deck]

[Keftenk]

Interestingly powerful. Blanked BW Midrange and Mono B (twice) all 2-0.

[RaidaTheBlade]

You talking about the midrange, Keftenk? Good to hear it, was a bit worried about those two matchups.

I played a quick round on cockatrice and 2-1'd a pyrored deck, and the loss was because I swung when I shouldn't have, could have pulled it out (maybe)

[Keftenk]

Yea, the midrange. It's interesting. I did just get blanked by BW Midrange 0-2 a few minutes ago. Trying to get a lot of T1 tests in to see the versatility of the deck. I will play around with it more after work!

[RaidaTheBlade]

I find the deck interesting myself...

If BW is an issue, assumably because of blood baron, then maybe trying to fit 2 mortars mainboard wouldn't be a bad idea?
Dropping a dreadbore and something else could probably be done, though not sure off the top of my head.

Also, I like underworld connections, but it might be irrelevant against too much... If we take them and a dreadbore out for 3 mortars, and then have the connections and a third anger side?

[TBuzzsaw]

So this crazy idea came to me in a casual conversation with another player.

[deck]
Creatures
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Spike Jester
4 Mogis's Marauder
3 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch

Spells
3 Madcap Skills
3 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
2 Ultimate Price

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
4 Mountain
1 Temple of Triumph
1 Temple of Silence
1 Rakdos Guildgate

Sideboard
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Dreadbore
2 Doom Blade
2 Dark Betrayal
1 Rakdos Guildgate
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Thoughtseize[/deck]


It's essentially the GP Santiago list splash white for extra reach, protection, and removal in Boros Charm and Chained. Mana base may need some work, and Thoughtseize can be something else. So far I've tested against all the top decks and it's walked over nearly all of them (MUD is fairly close though).

Any
thoughts or any ideas on better use of white in the sideboard?

[Googims]

BRw... I'm intrigued...
I'll try this deck out when I get my godless shrines!
oh you have 59 cards md btw


yeah, I actually dropped the curve lol. I put in 4 minotaur skullcleavers, dropped the exavas, took the guildgate out and had 4/3 mountain/swamp
dropped boros charm to 2, 4 madcaps. I'll playtest it when I get my godless shrines in the mail.

[RaidaTheBlade]

I'm a little worried about having 3 colors, as r/b isn't hugely stable on its own, and you've only got 2 scrylands and no jets. Also only 21 lands, which I think might be a bit low, maybe that missing 60th card was a 22nd land?

All said, I think it has potential, but I think the instability of the mana base would make it slower and just less effective then the already existant B/r aggro deck. Again, just theory from looking at the list, so take it with a grain of salt.

[TBuzzsaw]

Yeah it's missing another swamp. I would like it to have some sort of scry, but it's still fairly explosive without it. In testing I've had minimal mana problems but it can definitely be improved on.

[Zooligan]

The dos Rakis list let me down last night. Got spanked hard by monoG and monoB. Hard. So disenchanted with standard right now...

[Keftenk]

Seems Standard is just throw your hand onto the battlefield and then say "Go". I would like to think BNG will help change this, but seeing the Tribute ability has me rolling my eyes.

[Gabrielms]

Hi people!

I'm new to the forum and very interested in the "Dos Packs" and "Black Pyro" lists. Do you think that the coming of the BR scryland next month can give these decks a fuel?

Currently, I'm playing a Devotion to B with splash to G, but I found the deck very boring. I'm seriously considering changing decks, but maybe it's not the best time to do this.

*sry for the bad english. I'm not a native english speaker.

[Keftenk]

The scrylands will help, but honestly the meta may drastically change soon. We'll have to wait for BNG to be spoiled.