Dies To Removal Mafia - Game Over (Mafia Win)

[zemanjaski]

You say you want me lynched, but you vote for G_R when my wagon falls apart.

I refused to vote for G_R for reasons you ignored, then declined to comment on. I haven't turned on you at all, I haven't even completed a re-read of your posts. I make a joking reference to you being scum and you lose your shit. You went from being calm and analytical to trying to intimidate me and calling my posts "bullshit".

Thing is, I am pretty sure you're frustrated town, that's why I don't want to vote for you. I have G_R neutral. I can see lynching him in a day or two if he doesn't start helping town.

What are your thoughts on imopen Pie?

[DocLawless]

I'm not voting GR again though?

My bad. I had that backwards. It was GR, Zem, GR, Zem, not the other way around. Salient points redacted.

[InflatablePie]

You say you want me lynched, but you vote for G_R when my wagon falls apart.

You flip flop between G_R and me; you switched to G_R after the momentum of the wagon against me started to dissipate.

Wrong. WRONG.

zemanjaski (3) - wraith223, stardust, imopen2, GR - was your wagon, IIRC. Then they jumped off onto freedom (you leading it with 88, then Star, GR unvoted you, imopen voted freedom,
then wraith jumped on). I came in and made my huge post. Then imopen voted you and I voted you after that. You unvoted freedom. We had our little chat last evening (last half of p5), I woke up and logged on then unvoted you and tried baiting you onto GR, while still calling you scum (see: my convo with Wraith on p7). It's been me and imopen on you since then. Your wagon fell apart before I even made my huge PBPA, this is a blatant misrepresentation.

I haven't turned on you at all, I haven't even completed a re-read of your posts. I make a joking reference to you being scum and you lose your shit.

Ahem.

Furhter to before, in Ragnarok Pie was scum and did not protect either myself or Tubehunter (both noob town) when we were under duress;
that Pie is standing up for Freedom here suggests to me that either:
- Pie is town and wants to prevent a mislynch;
- They're scum buddies.

Now I think it is MUCH more likely than the first option (both town) is correct; based on both Freedom's actions and responses and because I don't think Pie would try to save a noob scum team mate.

Not worth mentioning if you didn't want to sow seeds of doubt.

Looking at my own wagon, I consider the most likely scum to be Pie but I really cannot read him very well. Fuck.

Again implying I'm scum, with an excuse to fall back on.

What would you have said if I did vote for GR? Throwing my buddy under the bus? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

This is not the way to phrase a question if you think the accuser is town.

I think there would have been at least 1 scum on my early wagon: imopen2, Stardust, InflatablePie or
Wraith223.

imopen2 and Pie are the most suspect of the two for me; will be re-looking over their posts, as well as GR.

More evidence of you slowly turning to a scumread on me.

Thread recap:

Zem: I am town
Pie: Zem's scum!

Stardust: Zem's town
Pie: Zem's scum! Better lynch G_R!

Attempting to discredit me by quoting Stardust, who I've barely interacted with (but have called obvtown for a while now). This one you repeat again in this post.

This didn't have shit to do with your "because you're scum? that was easy" reply. You've been dropping suspicions on me for pages, ever since I came in and started calling you scum.

@everyone: KILL IT WITH FIRE.[/color:
1vk3vxyu]

[InflatablePie]

Z is scum. For the love of christ, I will channel the spirit of Fate and rain unholy rage-filled hellfire upon this thread if that's what it takes to convince you guys.

[Jack]

My plans for the Day: I think I'll just re-read the thread tomorrow and try to get a read on everyone, and maybe post a T/S list if I feel strongly enough about my reads. I don't really think I have to say anything, since I'm pretty sure I'm fairly well protected by a perception of me as obvious noobtown by most of the group. I'll leave scum hunting to those that know how to do so effectively, and hopefully learn how to play better myself by analyzing both speakers' parts in the conversation. Good plan/bad plan?

[InflatablePie]

Bad plan. Find something to do. Pick a player, start looking at their posts. Get a read on them. Read a few pages of content in-context, try and look at reactions between players. Change reads based on that. Also vote z.

[Jack]

Alright, well I won't be on at all until about 4 PM on the Dtr clock, and I still have to look over pages 5-9 again, which is a lot of reading. I really wish everyone was able to contribute a bit more equally (although this probably could never happen in a game played across multiple timezones and people with varying levels of free time), since it's hard for me to get a read on those running the show right now. I'm sure most of you feel the same way.

[zemanjaski]

You're funny when your mad.

You're town though.

[rezombad]

You're funny when your mad.

You're town though.

...and?

[Mcdonalds]

Lord_McDonald

---

Z: I distrust role fishing by default (for reasons explained in this thread already, by z strangely), his response to stardusts question smelled of it, and this bit seemed like back pedaling a bit

"- I don't need to lynch you today because of the above reasons, I want the info you making it to day two and beyond will provide.
- I am not the one who outted a power role; you did by counter-claiming, or at least seeming to do. I gave the mafia no information at all, you might have done so. Please explain this.
- I agree that outing power roles helps scum."

- Stardust isn't per se counterclaiming, Rezombad makes a point that Droppin hadn't logged in since the game started, it
would be reasonable (although not entirely sporting) to assume you were lying about the whole Daycop thing
-Points 1 and 3 are contradictory, on the one hand you want to know if he has a power role that provides town info (something a cop would do) yet on the other you admit outing tower roles is pro-scum

I thought I was obviously joking, but sure, whatever.

I don't see how points 1 and 3 are contradictory. Point 1 is only a valid statement if SD is seriously counter-claiming (already explained before this post...). Locking SD into a claim or non-claim, instead of her current "unknown" position gives the town information. If SD is serious about the counter-claim, then we'll have information related to that toMorrow. If SD isn't serious about the counter-claim, then that is info for town too.

Wraith: A few of his post aren't pro-town and don't seem like they would come from a town mindset, I'll give him the
benefit of the doubt in that he is new, but he's leaning scum to me

Can you expand on this? Please give specific passages or post numbers please, Wraith feels town to me.

If you were joking, why did you want ham to respond to your accusation of him being scum?

That still doesn't jive with your statement that outing power roles is beneficial to scum, ultimately there are plenty of reasons why Stardust thought you were lying, speculating on them is pointless and getting him to claim cop is not beneficial

Post 32, pretty much that, I need to read/grok his newer posts to be frank

back to analyzing game state

[imopen2]

How is no one else not noticing this shit either? I feel like I'm talking to myself here, no one's responded to me except the people I'm frakking arguing with.

I can't vote him twice

I really don't have enough info on G_R to make a determination one way or the other.

Rezombad needs to post more, I feel like he was a lot more active in previous games and I don't have time to check his alignments in those games but I feel like he was most lurky when he was in bioshock mafia when he was scum.

Z, the reason you're the only one i've interrogated is because, other than the "slip" by freedom that had me baffled
for a minute, no one else has done much that registered strongly on my radar. wraith writes weird sentences, LMD, RCW, Ham, G_R, and Rez need to post more, stardust and freedom are town, doc is probably town, pie is leaning town but he's a bit too good at mafia and i've only played one game with him so i don't feel super confident in my read but he has basically been on your wagon with me the whole time and unless he is bussing the shit out of you, i think that is +town points for him.

did i miss anyone?

[imopen2]

btw, i've read through the last couple pages but i'm tired and i don't think i've fully processed them. tomorrow i have work and then i'm having people over. posts from me will be few and far between

[zemanjaski]

On the sorry mess that is ImpotentPie

---

/CONFIRM

VOTE: G_R

PREPARE FOR TROUBLE

Prepare for trouble? SCUM

which helps the town (which people tell me that I should appear as so that the real town doesn't kill me)..

not voting freedom yet though, this is too easy.

I need to go back and actually read all of the
fucking text walls y'all have posted, which is a chore.

Worth noting that you're trying to push a wagon on GR for not voting Freedom, when you didn't either. Your reason is that G_R didn't comment on the slip; but I find it weird you're tunnelling him when a bunch of posters didn't comment on it.

hey imopen, what was z's claim a distraction from? (post 24, first part of my wall)

I also fucked up my line somewhere referencing post 92 with all the "re:"s, not gonna fix it though.

Good town post.

if z is town I guarantee there's scum on the wagon regardless.
Starbuck could possibly be some scum mastermind, in which case we're all fucked anyway. imopen isn't reading as townie as Ragnarok, but I can call him townish for now. it's probably Wraith in that case.

"I guarantee there is scum on his wagon". At that point in time the wagon was imopen2, Stardust and Wraith. From what I have seen, the most likely scum is imopen, with Wraith second. Stardust is very Town. Still, good town post.

if Z is scum I'd go after GR next based off current info, could change depending who's on the lynching wagon.

More tunelling. By this time in the thread you've only focussed on me with a cursory throw away to G_R. I think that is very town actually. I don't think scum could be as vicious and relentless; they'd be too worried about
catching heat.

BTW walls of text suck balls. Quit that shit.

@Z:
- Can you offer any insight to what about post 85 confuses you? - nope.
- I don't have much else to say about your post really, it mostly reads as a recap. - yep.
- As for me explaining my reasoning, I did that in Ragnarok as well. - not to this extent. granted, you weren't alive for long and you're trying something different. but still.
- Can you please give a brief summary for you case for SD are town? Merci. - Stardust? Have you been reading her posts? If so, you'd see
why. I can't see why anyone would think she was scum at this point.
- Overall I found your artificial use of points confusing and arbitrary, almost distracting. - welcome to DtR mafia, where accusations are made-up and the points don't matter.

Just want to include this so that we're both in agreement on Stardust being Town. This will be relevant to later discussion.

That isn't a pro town response at all. Hmmmmmmm.

it's also not an anti-town response. don't even.

scum, especially newbscum, would make sure they adhered to the whims and wishes of every townie in the game as not to get caught. they
wouldn't say "nop fuck u m8".

I will whiteknight the shit out of freedom, so back off.

There are several instances of you tell me to either not post or to not go after certain players; what exactly do you want me to do? I like how you try to be all authoritative and commanding, like anyone cares what you have to say. There is a town mindset here if you're convinced that Freedom is noob town though.

Obviously I am noob scum that is adhering to the whims and wishes of every townie right? You're trying to hard!

@doc: don't listen to Z, feel free to keep grilling him. I mean, don't get all tunnelvisioned, but still. go get 'em champ!

p.s. - y'all and your capitalizations when saying toDay and toNight drives me up a wall. just sayin'.

Take your own advice, you go get 'em champ!

I like that
you misrep. what I said then tell Doc to go after me. More tunneling.

well maybe if your questions would stop being bad we wouldn't have this problem

also the you being scum thing

BUT MOSTLY THE QUESTIONS

Impotent Pie encourage discourse. Oh, wait...only the discourse that he will allow

I think rcwraspy is scum. Discuss!

no[/quote

You're only allowed to discuss the people I want to discuss! No other discussion is allowed!

unvote
vote: Z

to answer your earlier question(s) Wraith, I was voting GR over Z to see if he would follow me onto him, since he thought GR was scum. my GR vote wasn't "better", it was a test to see how Z would react. he failed by rescinding his scum read rather than voting. scum don't want to bus on D1, it's not beneficial to do so. new theory is that GR and Z are buddies*, now I just need to find the third scum.

*theory is further supported in the opposite direction by GR not
following Z onto the freedom ML, and actually ignoring freedom but unvoting Z when the wagon shifted focus.

Z, what did GR do exactly to turn into a null read once I asked you to vote him?

Ignoring my posts in favor of tunneling. Then it gets pointed out and you just keep right on going as if nothing happened.

Stardust, why are you wanting to kick up discussion on rcw when we have plenty of information in front of us at the moment?

No! Only discuss who I want to lynch!

re: ham, LMD, freedom. They don't really matter right now. Ham's reason for thinking I'm scum is kiiind[/i:
1eu1pyz1] of valid but that'd be a terribly weak reason to push strongly.

Only Zem and G_R matter! There is no one else here! Unless I can ask them to buddy with me to lynch Zem or G_R, then I will talk to them!

Also, I'm currently wanting Z lynched, for reasons already explained (scummy responses to cop claim bullshit in the early game, asking lots of questions that go nowhere, and overexplaining which he himself deemed a scumtell). Hence why I joined his wagon in the first place.

PIE SAYS HE WAS ON MY WAGON

Now, I'll happily lynch any of the three at this moment, though my vote is currently on Z because he'll give the most information when we lynch him due to the sheer number of
questions he's asked and connections he's made this game. Also because I don't have time for his bullshit.

Pie starts to unravel when it looks like he won't get his lynch.

You say you want me lynched, but you vote for G_R when my wagon falls apart.

You flip flop between G_R and me; you switched to G_R after the momentum of the wagon against me
started to dissipate.

Wrong. WRONG.

zemanjaski (3) - wraith223, stardust, imopen2, GR - was your wagon, IIRC. Then they jumped off onto freedom (you leading it with 88, then Star, GR unvoted you, imopen voted freedom, then wraith jumped on). I came in and made my huge post. Then imopen voted you and I voted you after that. You unvoted freedom. We had our little chat last evening (last half of p5), I woke up and logged on then unvoted you and tried baiting you onto GR, while still calling you scum (see: my convo with Wraith on p7). It's been me and imopen on you since then. Your wagon fell apart before I even made my huge PBPA, this is a blatant misrepresentation.

You're either lying above or you're lying here. You claimed to be on my wagon before. There was a time when you and imopen were wagoning me. You might not have been on the
initial wagon (as listed by you), but you were pushing the wagon. Such deceit!

I haven't turned on you at all, I haven't even completed a re-read of your posts. I make a joking reference to you being scum and you lose your shit.

Ahem.

Well its true, look at your posts since!

Furhter to before, in Ragnarok Pie was scum and did not protect either myself or Tubehunter (both noob town) when we were under duress; that Pie is standing up for Freedom here suggests to me that either:
- Pie is town and wants to prevent a mislynch;
- They're scum buddies.

Now I think it is MUCH more likely than the first option (both town) is correct; based on both Freedom's actions and
responses and because I don't think Pie would try to save a noob scum team mate.

Not worth mentioning if you didn't want to sow seeds of doubt.

Yes, only you get to look at both possible outcomes. You've done it above in the quoted passages. These are more instances of one set of rules for you, another for me. Why are you so scared of me analyzing freely?

Looking at my own wagon, I consider the most likely scum to be Pie but I really cannot read him very well. Fuck.

Again implying I'm scum, with an excuse to fall back on.

Terrible.

What would you have said if I did vote for GR? Throwing my buddy under the bus? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

This is not the way to phrase a question if you think the accuser is town.

What is the correct way to phrase the question. You didn't offer one,
is that because it isn't obvious?

I think there would have been at least 1 scum on my early wagon: imopen2, Stardust, InflatablePie or Wraith223.

imopen2 and Pie are the most suspect of the two for me; will be re-looking over their posts, as well as GR.

More evidence of you slowly turning to a scumread on me.

Thread recap:

Zem: I am town
Pie: Zem's scum!

Stardust: Zem's town
Pie: Zem's scum! Better lynch G_R!

Attempting to discredit me by quoting Stardust, who I've barely interacted with (but have called obvtown for a while now). This one you repeat again in this post.

This didn't have shit to do with your "because you'
re scum? that was easy" reply. You've been dropping suspicions on me for pages, ever since I came in and started calling you scum.

@everyone: KILL IT WITH FIRE.

Keep freaking out son.

Verdict: Town. I might not like his methods but I can find Town motivation behind everything that Pie has done. Sure, he has done a hell of a lot of tunneling and misrep of his own; and he is a pain in the ass when he tries to tell me how to play. Thing is, that sort of one mindedness and then frustration is exactly what I would expect from Town hunting Scum VERY seriously. I don't think that scum, on Day 1, would be this vocal or committed; because after you successfully lynch your candidate, you're getting lynched day 2, and that isn't good.

I'll respond to questions for now, I'll be doing more analysis and hunting once the reluctant
contributors finally start doing something.

[zemanjaski]

My plans for the Day: I think I'll just re-read the thread tomorrow and try to get a read on everyone, and maybe post a T/S list if I feel strongly enough about my reads. I don't really think I have to say anything, since I'm pretty sure I'm fairly well protected by a perception of me as obvious noobtown by most of the group. I'll leave scum hunting to those that know how to do so effectively, and hopefully learn how to play better myself by analyzing both speakers' parts in the conversation. Good plan/bad plan?

What the fuck man.

[zemanjaski]

How is no one else not noticing this shit either? I feel like I'm talking to myself here, no one's responded to me except the people I'm frakking arguing with.

I can't vote him twice

I really don't have enough info on G_R to make a determination one way or the other.

Rezombad needs to post more, I feel like he was a lot more active in previous games and I don't have time to check his alignments in those games but I feel like he was most lurky when he was in
bioshock mafia when he was scum.

Z, the reason you're the only one i've interrogated is because, other than the "slip" by freedom that had me baffled for a minute, no one else has done much that registered strongly on my radar. wraith writes weird sentences, LMD, RCW, Ham, G_R, and Rez need to post more, stardust and freedom are town, doc is probably town, pie is leaning town but he's a bit too good at mafia and i've only played one game with him so i don't feel super confident in my read but he has basically been on your wagon with me the whole time and unless he is bussing the shit out of you, i think that is +town points for him.

did i miss anyone?

I want to note that imopen also says Pie was on my wagon.

I actually mostly agree with your reads (they're the same as mine actually). I agree that that level of tunneling is town points. I guess just wait for when some of the others start actually posting.

Thank you for the tell on Rez, I will look into it
further if I have time.

[zemanjaski]

Lord_McDonald

---

Z: I distrust role fishing by default (for reasons explained in this thread already, by z strangely), his response to stardusts question smelled of it, and this bit seemed like back pedaling a bit

"- I don't need to lynch you today because of the above reasons, I want the info you making it to day two and beyond will provide.
- I am not the one who outted a power role; you did by counter-claiming, or at least seeming to do. I gave the mafia no information at all, you might have done so. Please explain this.
- I agree that
outing power roles helps scum."

- Stardust isn't per se counterclaiming, Rezombad makes a point that Droppin hadn't logged in since the game started, it would be reasonable (although not entirely sporting) to assume you were lying about the whole Daycop thing
-Points 1 and 3 are contradictory, on the one hand you want to know if he has a power role that provides town info (something a cop would do) yet on the other you admit outing tower roles is pro-scum

I thought I was obviously joking, but sure, whatever.

I don't see how points 1 and 3 are contradictory. Point 1 is only a valid statement if SD is seriously counter-claiming (already explained before this post...). Locking SD into a claim or non-claim, instead of her current "unknown" position gives the town information. If SD is serious about the counter-claim, then we'll have information related to that toMorrow. If SD isn't serious about the counter-claim, then that is
info for town too.

Wraith: A few of his post aren't pro-town and don't seem like they would come from a town mindset, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in that he is new, but he's leaning scum to me

Can you expand on this? Please give specific passages or post numbers please, Wraith feels town to me.

If you were joking, why did you want ham to respond to your accusation of him being scum?

That still doesn't jive with your statement that outing power roles is beneficial to scum, ultimately there are plenty of reasons why Stardust thought you were lying, speculating on them is pointless and getting him to claim cop is not beneficial

Post 32, pretty much that, I need to read/grok his newer posts to be frank

back to analyzing game state

Your questions have all been answered in response to others previously.

- Ham responding still gives information and gets him to say
something. You might have noticed how hard it is to get him to say anything.
- Outing Town power roles helps scum because it identifies their NK targets;.
- Thanks for the info on Wraith. I'll give his stuff a re-read. I have him lean town prior to the re-read.

[rezombad]

@imopen: I'm in 4 games right now.

Kill Zemanjaski

[zemanjaski]

Day killed as Town two games in a row? People here are actually terrible.

[InflatablePie]

OH FUCK NO. I'M DONE WITH THIS BULLSHIT.

YOU'RE TRYING TO CALL ME TOWN TO GET ME TO BACK OFF? NOT GONNA WORK SON

You're either lying above or you're lying here. You claimed to be on my wagon before. There was a time when you and imopen were wagoning me. You might not have been on the initial wagon (as listed by you), but you were pushing the wagon. Such deceit!

IMOPEN VOTED YOU. I JOINED YOUR WAGON. DIFFERENT FUCKING INSTANCES. YOUR WAGON FELL APART BEFORE I GOT CAUGHT UP, OBVIOUSLY I COULDN'T JOIN THAT SPECIFIC INSTANCE OF WAGON.

[PEDIT] REZZY I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THIS SHIT

[zemanjaski]

/ yawn. You now admit you're were on my wagon ("specific instance of wagon"). I said I would analyze my wagon, you now say you were on my wagon.

/ rage.

[zemanjaski]

Tell me how to play and who I can talk to please.

[rezombad]

Post 373 is you attacking pie and then calling him town. You're not even voting anyone but have over 30% of the posts. I stand by my action.

[rezombad]

[PEDIT] REZZY I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THIS SHIT

totes legit vig

[InflatablePie]

*YOUR INITIAL WAGON

YOUR BULLSHIT'S GOTTEN ME FUCKIN UP NOW

[PEDIT] THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT NOW

[PEDIT2] STAHP POST

[PEDIT3] REZZY I SWEAR TO GOD

[zemanjaski]

Alright, let's leave it until Suga confirms.

[rezombad]

Alright, let's leave it until Suga confirms.

when suga confirms you wont be able to say anything at all scumanjawski.

[zemanjaski]

You guys are going to flip the table when my role is revealed.

[DocLawless]

Was that seven votes? I'm so lost. As well as breaking my rule of no Mafia on the iPad from bed while I'm trying to wind down.

[zemanjaski]

Alright, let's leave it until Suga confirms.

when suga confirms you wont be able to say anything at all scumanjawski.

You're the new Tubehunter, congrats

[zemanjaski]

*YOUR INITIAL WAGON

YOUR BULLSHIT'S GOTTEN ME FUCKIN UP NOW

[PEDIT] THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT NOW

[PEDIT2] STAHP POST

[PEDIT3] REZZY I SWEAR TO GOD

This is not the post of someone who has lost their shit. Nope. Not at all.

[rezombad]

Was that seven votes? I'm so lost. As well as breaking my rule of no Mafia on the iPad from bed while I'm trying to wind down.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Vigilante

[DocLawless]

Ah. Well. That escalated quickly.

[imopen2]

thank god. i'm 99% sure that this was the right lynch/kill/whatever for toDay, but if i'm wrong, Z, you should really post some final reads for analysis. you posted one pretty recently but it can't hurt. dayvig is almost always town as we've seen recently. do you think this clears rez for the timebeing?

[DocLawless]

What other roles get loaded guns like that? What are the odds he's one of those roles and not actually a day vig?

[zemanjaski]

I'm actually Town Doctor. Well done team

The only confirmed town are Stardust and Pie.

I as suspicious of imopen2; Hamfactorial; Freedom. I especially dislike Freedom's refusal to hunt scum. His last post that referred to relying on the illusion of noob town is fucked.

Otherwise people have to post more.

Two daykills in two games as Town. The laffs.

Rez should feel bad.
Pie should feel good, he really ran a good misdirection case.

[zemanjaski]

I think imopen2 was the scum on my wagon. Look for interaction between him and Pie. Don't let them go after Wraith together.

Seriously Rez you owe me a new avatar

Lesson learned, better to lurk and make excuses here

[InflatablePie]

NO ONE FUCKING COUNTERCLAIM THAT.

NO. ONE.

REZZY'S DOING A DUMBFUCK GAMBIT AND Z KNOWS IT.

[zemanjaski]

>:)

[imopen2]

Z, you say pie is confirmed town but then you say to watch his interactions with me, one of the three people you said are suspicious. what gives?

[InflatablePie]

REZZY IF I'M WRONG AND YOU JUST OUTED AN ACTUAL DOC I SWEAR I WILL REACH THROUGH THE INTERNET AND PUNCH YOU.

Z IF YOU'RE ACTUALLY THE DOC AND DIDN'T NOTICE REZ WAS FUCKING GAMBITING I SWEAR.

GODDAMN THIS FUCKS UP MY READ NOW, FUCKING SHIT.

[PEDIT] FUCK YOU