Primer: R/w/x Aggro

[Pedros]

Can force myself to cut shaman. This card is so good right now...

[LaZerBurn]

@ MDU - if you wouldn't mind then I'd love a S/B plan please

I've played 20 games with the list now, tweaking a Dragon and a YP here and there, and am currently 16 - 4 with losses to B/R Aggro (he swarmed me G1 and dropped a Whip T4 G2 and I just couldn't keep up) GDevo (lack of match up practice) and the G/B Rock deck (I think this is a tough match up, lost 2 excellent Matches 1-2 to the same guy, the key card being Gift Of Orzhova). I've not seen a U deck yet and I was lucky to beat G/R ramp 2-1.

I found myself missing YP too so I'm currently running a very greedy list to squeeze everything in As above but -1 Mountain -2 Dragon (with one in the S/B) +1 Titan's Strength (could probably go TBH but it's won me games so I am emotionally attached to it
) +2 YP. I generally favour a lot of land (I ran 25 like Sullivan to support 4 Dragons) but 23 is working okay so far.

EDIT - Not sure when I'll get chance to try this, very busy work week, but I'm going to try dropping the TS and a YP and adding an extra Mountain (to take me to a more sane 24 land) and a 2nd Dragon. 3rd Dragon and 3rd YP in the S/B

EDIT - In case that's a bit confusing here's my latest test list -

[deck=MDU's Big Boros, tweaked by LaZer]Lands 24
12 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 20
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 StormBreath Dragon
2 Young Pyromancer

Instants 10
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock

Others 6
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Flame of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
n3 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Last Breath
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Stormbreath Dragon[/deck]

[Keftenk]

Can force myself to cut shaman. This card is so good right now...

I agree, though I can't seem to even cut YP (sorry, from the PyroRed thread), it's incredible when I can trade a 1/1 token with a Blood Baren lol I'm slowly moving towards a list though like MDU's newest BigBoros. Trying to find a good middle ground with the amount of dragons and YP though ;\

[Pedros]

Perfect split would be to have 3 : 3 split of YP$ and dragon between mb and sb with 24 lands. I love having access of those 2 one offs like shaman and flames, as most of the time they are really impactful ( dunno if the word like that exists btw) and opponent after seing it have to play around them game 2 and 3

With 2 dragons and 1 pyro in mb and 2 pyro and dragon in sb it is possible to sb 1 dragon and a land for 2 pyro if needed. Switch is extremely natural.

Question is what to cut from sb to fit those cards?

[magicdownunder]

@ MDU - if you wouldn't mind then I'd love a S/B plan please

I've played 20 games with the list now, tweaking a Dragon and a YP here and there, and am currently 16 - 4 with losses to B/R Aggro (he swarmed me G1 and dropped a Whip T4 G2 and I just couldn't keep up) GDevo (lack of match up practice) and the G/B Rock deck (I think this is a tough match up, lost 2 excellent Matches 1-2 to the same guy, the key card being Gift Of Orzhova). I've not seen a U deck yet and I was lucky to beat G/R ramp 2-1.

I found myself missing YP too so I'm currently running a very greedy list to squeeze everything in As above but -1 Mountain -2 Dragon (with one in the S/B) +1 Titan's Strength (could probably go TBH but it's won me games so I am emotionally attached to it ) +2 YP. I generally favour a lot of land (I ran 25 like Sullivan to support 4 Dragons) but 23 is working okay so far.

EDIT - Not sure when I'll get chance to try this, very busy work week, but I'm going to try dropping the TS and a YP and adding an extra Mountain (to take me to a more sane 24 land) and a 2nd Dragon. 3rd Dragon and 3rd YP in the S/B

EDIT - In case that's a bit confusing here's my latest test list -

[deck=MDU's Big Boros, tweaked by LaZer]Lands 24
12 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 20
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 StormBreath Dragon
2 Young Pyromancer

Instants
10
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock

Others 6
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Flame of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Last Breath
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Stormbreath Dragon[/deck]

....wow, this is my favorite tweak by far (going to steal this deck and work on the SB plan).

I really appreciate the work you guys put in testing my decks, I'm going to retire Gr, small Rw now and focus on just Big Boros and Rage Tears.

[Pedros]

But ... but ... pyrewild shaman ... buuuuuuuuu (cry)

I almost view this dedk the same, however in love with shaman

[Keftenk]

Don't give up Pedros! I'm looking at it right now, thinking how it can be squeezed in!
Question, and perhaps this was answered way earlier in this thread, but I've sadly just started watching this thread. When is the 1 YP brought into the MB from SB? Just against DD.dek?

[soebek]

And weenie decks

[Keftenk]

Lol playing versus the mirror, I have a Boros Reckoner out. My opponent Lightning Strikes it during attack phase, I Pyrewild Shaman it. He takes 9 and I have a Reckoner still lol.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'd prefer:

[deck]Lands 23
12 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 22
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 StormBreath Dragon
4 Young Pyromancer

Instants 10
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock

Others 5
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Flame of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Last Breath
1 Mutavault
1 Stormbreath Dragon[/deck]

That looks so sexy to me.

[Pedros]

@Johnny_Spike

Omg this deck is also awsome! Cutting land and chandra (lovering curve for a lot) and having 4 pyro in mb, after sb more dragons.

Looks like we have a conclusion in those decks. But no shaman, however dragons are used now for late/game stuff.

Also this is the same argument as always - do we have space for 3 chandra in mb. I like having it as a 2 off only, however it is soo good.

[Keftenk]

I like 23 land/2 SBD as well AND 3 Mutavault.
I hate seeing 3 Mutavaults in my opening hand

@ Pedros: You could knock out a YP for the shaman. It's basically what the PyroBoros lists (well some of them) did to begin with.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'd really like to squeeze Boros Charm in. It wins me so many games...

The list I threw up there has my favourite curve of:

23 lands
8 1 drops
8 2 drops
4 3 drops
2-3 4 drops
2 5 drops
+ burn.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Maybe:

[deck]Lands 23
12 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 22
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 StormBreath Dragon
4 Young Pyromancer

Instants 11
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Boros Charm

Others 4
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Last Breath
1 Mutavault
1 Stormbreath Dragon[/deck]

Also curious about testing Tajic. Adrian Sullivan is playing him still, and it might just be crazy enough to work.

[Pedros]

Boros charms, while powerful, arent good vs agro the same way shocks are. Imo now matchup vs agro is much worse than it was - however it would be good to also test it.

Today I hope to attend to Wednesday midday magic at 4pm, if I can get some dragons there I will test 4 pyro 2 dragons +1 sb deck (without shaman sad panda is sad ;/)

[magicdownunder]

I like your first list Johnny_Spike , very strong against */1 aggro and DD.decks - I'll recommend you swap the mountain and vaults because your Control MU will be weaken without the 3rd Chandra and 3rd Shock.

I'm still leaning towards more Dragons because I hate Rx Midrange and MonoU but I do miss the YP$ vs Green and Black.

Here are some more videos (if you click on the adds and/or sub/like I get more money ):

Big Boros Experiment (2-Man) + Commentary: G2 vs Blue/x Devotion (playing the version with legions, after further testing I removed them)
Big Boros Experiment (2-Man) +
Commentary: G3 vs Boros Devotion (playing the version with YP$ over Shaman)

I think for MODO: MD 1 YP$ / 3 Dragon and SB 2 YP$ is better due to the lack of MonoB and Weenies (though based on Pedros report I could be wrong, I'm not sure how you manage to dodge all the MonoU I keep seeing), while for larger events either Johnny_Spike or LaZer version is preferred (die MonoBlack).

[Pedros]

To 2 chandra or to 3 chandra, that is a question? (like Shekspire )

[Lightning_Dolt]

The first list would be better vs a diverse field, the second would be better vs heavy Black / esper / uw metas. I like the first one better too in most fields.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I like your first list Johnny_Spike , very strong against */1 aggro and DD.decks - I'll recommend you swap the mountain and vaults because your Control MU will be weaken without the 3rd Chandra and 3rd Shock.

I'm still leaning towards more Dragons because I hate Rx Midrange and MonoU but I do miss the YP$ vs Green and Black.

Here are some more videos (if you click on the adds and/or sub/like I get more money ):

Big Boros Experiment (2-Man) + Commentary: G2 vs Blue/x Devotion
(playing the version with legions, after further testing I removed them)
Big Boros Experiment (2-Man) + Commentary: G3 vs Boros Devotion (playing the version with YP$ over Shaman)

I think for MODO: MD 1 YP$ / 3 Dragon and SB 2 YP$ is better due to the lack of MonoB and Weenies (though based on Pedros report I could be wrong, I'm not sure how you manage to dodge all the MonoU I keep seeing), while for larger events either Johnny_Spike or LaZer version is preferred (die MonoBlack).

I think four vaults are just way too greedy. I think control will still be very favourable.

[magicdownunder]

Also curious about testing Tajic. Adrian Sullivan is playing him still, and it might just be crazy enough to work.

He is darn good stone wall against Gx, BGx, R weenies...

Heck the BGx MU may just be enough to warrant space for him in the board, but traditionally we're already good against weenies (isn't that why we're running YP$?) which is why I don't think we have the room, he would of been a great card if we have 16 sideboards... (much like Threaten or Legions which we all want to run).

The first list would be better vs a diverse field, the second would be better vs
heavy Black / esper / uw metas. I like the first one better too in most fields.

IDK, I started to move away from YP$ (4x) because, MonoU, Golgari Charm and Anger of the Gods started to see more play... imo he is quite meta dependent.

I think four vaults are just way too greedy. I think control will still be very favourable.

Outside T2 Ash, I doubt 4 vaults will effect you much - post board when you need triple R is when it maters (I think Z's list run even less mountains then us).

[Lightning_Dolt]

Also curious about testing Tajic. Adrian Sullivan is playing him still, and it might just be crazy enough to work.

He is darn good stone wall against Gx, BGx, R weenies...

Heck the BGx MU may just be enough to warrant space for him in the board, but traditionally we're already good against weenies (isn't that why we're running YP$?) which is why I don't think we have the room, he would of been a great card if we have 16 sideboards... (much like Threaten or Legions which we all want to run).

The first list would be better vs a diverse field, the second would be better vs heavy Black / esper / uw metas. I like the first one better too in most fields.

IDK, I started to move away from YP$ (4x) because, MonoU, Golgari Charm and Anger of the Gods started to see more play... imo he is quite meta dependent.

I think four vaults are just way too greedy. I think control will still be very favourable.

Outside T2 Ash, I doubt 4 vaults will effect you much - post board when you need triple R is when it maters (I think Z's list run even less mountains then us).

I seem to get double mutavault no red source openers too often with
4 vaults in 23 land decks.

[Lightning_Dolt]

If we aren't running YP$ I don't like shock anymore.

[magicdownunder]

If we aren't running YP$ I don't like shock anymore.

Young Pyromancer is much too strong against many decks to cut completely... I just can't validate him as a 4x MD in my meta (2x or 3x sure), but in a large event I'll run him in the numbers for sure.

(Its a meta thing, you may notice that Rwb burn online don't run YP$ MD either (but they do them them in the board))

[Keftenk]

Also curious about testing Tajic. Adrian Sullivan is playing him still, and it might just be crazy enough to work.

He is darn good stone wall against Gx, BGx, R weenies...

Heck the BGx MU may just be enough to warrant space for him in the board, but traditionally we're already good against weenies (isn't that why we're running YP$?) which is why I don't think we have the room, he would of
been a great card if we have 16 sideboards... (much like Threaten or Legions which we all want to run).

The first list would be better vs a diverse field, the second would be better vs heavy Black / esper / uw metas. I like the first one better too in most fields.

IDK, I started to move away from YP$ (4x) because, MonoU, Golgari Charm and Anger of the Gods started to see more play... imo he is quite meta dependent.

I think four vaults are just way too greedy. I think control will still be very favourable.

Outside T2 Ash, I doubt 4 vaults will effect you much - post board when
you need triple R is when it maters (I think Z's list run even less mountains then us).

I seem to get double mutavault no red source openers too often with 4 vaults in 23 land decks.

This happens to me too, I even get 3 vaults in an opener when one of them could be a red source. It does no good having 3 vaults + 2 Ash's in a opening hand I know I've brought this issue up before (running 4 vaults) and I understand that the math is unfavorable that it would happen often. Sadly, it happens still That's why I also like the 3 vault plan, but just like people running more dragons or more chandra's over other cards. I think it's a personal preference issue. In fact, I just had another 3 vault opener not too long ago.



I actually risked it, seeing just how well I could sink in damage and safely return them untouched. Didn't fair well for me Figured as much, 5 lands in an opener hurts most of the time, heh.

[LaZerBurn]

@ everyone I've nothing to actually add at this point but I love the discussion and how all the lists are sooo close now

I agree 100% that the slight differences are down purely to personal preference and meta consideration as opposed to there being an absolute 'best' version of the deck and I had to smile when I saw Johnny advocating more YP than those of us who have been running a YP build all season

[Purp]

I happen to think Cockatrice shuffler is more broken then MODO.

[LP, of the Fires]

FWIW, in the dark, I'd keep that hand and wouldn't be too unhappy about it.

[Pedros]

[Spoiler][quote="[url=http://community.ist.utl.pt/viewtopic.p ... 65#p145865]Johnny_Spike » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:44 pm[/url]"]I'd prefer:

[deck]Lands 23
12 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 22
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 StormBreath Dragon
4 Young Pyromancer

Instants 10
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock

Others 5
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Flame of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 LaRst Breath
1 Mutavault
1 Stormbreath Dragon[/deck]

That looks so sexy to me.[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Only change was 4 mutavaults in main and single mountain in sb.

I played this deck in yesterdays 6 rounds wednesday midday magic to 5-1 finish to 5th place. 5 people were 5-1, 4 gots impressive pricea. I had worse tiebreakers..
.

2-0 mono black devotion.
Game 1 no problem, young pyromancer got there. He didnt know how it is good in this machup, and didnt kill him. Game 2 YP$ woulnd have big sign to kill him, so I waited to turn 4 to put him down and kill sth. I raced whip of erebos and pack with skullcrack and effective blocking with zealots, while attacking in the air with phoenix. Had 1 off dragon in hand, and chandra plus lightning striket. had to topdeck mountain to kill him, I missed so swing with phoenix, next turn he activaged whip to get specter, attack with specter, 3 pack rats block 1 pack rat and ash zealot on second. Ok for first strike, in response to pack rat activation burn other rat, first strike rat got killed, so i took 4 lifeswing. However my opp on 8, i cast chandra ping and kill him with my forces.

Game 2 mono U 0-2

Lost game 1 couse I outsmarted my opponent. He had jace on 3 counters, tassa, specter and owl with 1 open mana. Cast chain for specter, and he chose to rapid hybridise it. Correct play was
to hybridize thassa to get a token and then have a chance to bounce chained to free specter. I had shock to prevent him from dooing it by killing owl in response. After the game he said he didnt know that he can hybridize thassa. Game 2 I sb into control, didnt draw any removal and goot killed by double raptor, owl and specter by turn 3.

Game 3 2-0 Bg midrannge.
Sth like kiblers deck. Young pyro just created so much advantage on board, that hehad hard time to het throught. Sb into control game 2.

Game 4 2-0 GW. My favourite game whole tournament.
My opponent started with turn 1 elf into guildgate turn 2. Next was whickstalker with courage and 2nd whickstalker. I had tripple YP$ draw and by turn 4 had 3 off them on board plus jet his elf (noticed he stumbled and didnt hae 4rd land)

I took 1 hit from lifelink, however his assult stoped after i flamed pf firebrand his 2 dorks he follow up that created 3 more tokens. He then attacked me after i hit him 3 times with phoenix. I jet him, put 3 more
tokens, and blockded the way all of his witchstalker die even to charm. However he had both charm and protection spell so i lost 8 tokens and. Pyromancer for stalker charm and gods willing.

I quicly rebiild with last 2pyro. Game 2 my opp had stalker with courage, monstrous lion with souble courage. My dragon went minstrous and kept him on defense. While I artacked with phoenix and buen evertthing else with double pyronancers on board.Most people watching our game thought I cant win anymire after stalker with courage, howevver I still managed.

Game 5 vs RG devotion 2-0

Game 1 fast agro then finished him after he cast collosus by pasing past him with chandra. Game 2 triple chainedc to the rocks and playing control made me win.

Game 6 vs mono red with fanaticsz, dragons, 1 drops phoenixes and reckoners. 2-1

Game 1 played around topdecked burn to recvoyr phoenix, and try to get card advantage with chandra, kept phoenix, then dragon on defense. I think I played this game extremely well esdpecialy
when he had really good draw. Everyone was impressed by this game.
Losr game 2 to reckoner reckoner fanatic fanatc draw. He didnt swing even once. Game 3 kept all removal chandra hand and just played control, then killed him withn phoenix.

All thinks consider I really loved thisxc deck. What I missed was ... pyrewild ahaman. Hass hard time getting throught 3 caryatids in game 3, weird in game 2 and sometimes polukranis game 5.

[atatjacob1]

I'd prefer:

[deck]Lands 23
12 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 22
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 StormBreath Dragon
4 Young Pyromancer

Instants 10
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock

Others 5
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Flame of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Last Breath
1 Mutavault
1 Stormbreath Dragon[/deck]

That looks so sexy to me.

I want to test this list, what's the SB plan like? Also, I think I would prefer Glare of Heresy over Last Breath, we've already got enough anti aggro (YP$, Reckoner) and my meta is quite midrange/control
orientated. So yeah, JS chuck us the SB plan please

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'd prefer:

[deck]Lands 23
12 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 22
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 StormBreath Dragon
4 Young Pyromancer

Instants 10
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock

Others 5
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Flame of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Last Breath
1 Mutavault
1 Stormbreath Dragon[/deck]

That looks so sexy to me.

I want to test this list, what's
the SB plan like? Also, I think I would prefer Glare of Heresy over Last Breath, we've already got enough anti aggro (YP$, Reckoner) and my meta is quite midrange/control orientated. So yeah, JS chuck us the SB plan please

Last Breath is to answer Master of Waves. I'm going to be testing tonight. Will have a list + plan for you guys in a few hours.

[Lightning_Dolt]

OK so started with this (cockatrice with the following instructions:T2 Competitive 2/3 w/ SB) :

[deck]Lands 25
13 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 23
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 StormBreath Dragon
3 Young Pyromancer

Spells 12
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster


Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Tajic, Blade of the Legion
3 Shock
1 Wear // Tear[/deck]

Match 1: RUG midrange 2-0

Match 2: B/R Aggro 2-0

Match 3: Esper Control 2-0

Match 4: B/G Devotion 0-2 (This match is impossible, we need tech for this m/u if it becomes more popular. Unfortunately, someone is already running it at my LGS. Hope to dodge that. Any ideas?)

At this
point, made some slight changes (YP$ isn't working well, not enough spells):

[deck]Lands 25
13 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 23
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 StormBreath Dragon

Spells 15
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Chained to the Rocks


Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Tajic, Blade of the Legion
4 Shock
2 Wear // Tear
1 Rod of Ruin[/deck]

Match 5: Junk Midrange 2-1 (Grindy games, still very unfavourable, but not impossible. Play to your outs)

Match 6: Some UGW brew 1-2 (Ridiculous with the shuffler, when I have enough mana to play a dragon and monstrous it, with 40 cards left in the deck, there is an issue lol)

Match 7: Esper Control 2-1 (Game 2 hurt me, mull to 5 vs opp with all 4 Revs + 3x Blood Baron. Great hand G3 though
with curve + 2x Boros Charm.)

I think that's all I have in me for tonight.

Final list I landed on was the same as posted above, but with Tajic in the MB and one CttR in the SB. Still haven't cast him, but he seems quite reasonable to me. Can only be removed by Chained to the Rocks, and acts as a wall when we need it or a beater when we can attack with battalion with vaults or whatever.

B/G devotion seems painfully bad, but I think I'm ok with all the other match ups.

I don't have enough energy left to write the SB guide tonight. I think it should be fairly self-explanatory, but if you have specific questions, ask me.

[magicdownunder]

Bg Devotion is definitely annoying since they can answer our YP$ with the GB charm, Assemble the Legions still works though if they get out of hand.

[Keftenk]

BG devotion is tough, but Chains is honestly our best tool against them (it will still at least disrupt them for a turn), in addition to YP. I've faced the deck 3 times, twice at a semi-major tournament. Each match ended up 2-1 in favor of me. I also sent a lot more burn towards their face in games 2 and 3, but in comparison to your lists I run 3 Skullcracks in the SB (15 burns in total for G2 and G3)

Abrupt Decay and Golgari Charm are pretty brutal, so try not to over-extend.

Though, I could imagine if you're MBing 4 Boros Charm you could just play the deck like the Dega lists in the burn thread.

[Lightning_Dolt]

It might just be correct to run Adrian's 75. I think it's pretty much optimized, although B/x Devotion seems to lay the hurt on it.

List is here:

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=6064&d=235090

The only thing I really think needs to be changed is -1 [card]Chandra's Outrage[/card] in the SB, +1 Rod of Ruin. I want a 5th out to Master of Waves more than I want a fifth out to Blood Baron of Vitzkopa. It's a lot easier to play though BBoV than MoW.

[Lightning_Dolt]

BG devotion is tough, but Chains is honestly our best tool against them (it will still at least disrupt them for a turn), in addition to YP. I've faced the deck 3 times, twice at a semi-major tournament. Each match ended up 2-1 in favor of me. I also sent a lot more burn towards their face in games 2 and 3, but in comparison to your lists I run 3 Skullcracks in the SB (15 burns in total for G2 and G3)

Abrupt Decay and Golgari Charm are pretty brutal, so try not to over-extend.

Though, I could imagine if you're MBing 4 Boros Charm you could just play the deck like the Dega lists in the burn thread.

They have 8+ answers to Chained to the Rocks, which is super annoying and potentially leads to pretty
bad blow outs. I think that's part of the reason for upping the Boros Charms to be honest (along with GoG).

Skullcrack seems unnecessary in big boros. I haven't seen any lists running them. We never ran them last year in sledgehammer either.

I think you have to play aggressively. They definitely have inevitability. Gaze of Granite fucking blows too. It's slow though, so that helps.

[Lightning_Dolt]

What do they have here that we can exploit?

oxtil (4-0) BGU by oxtil
Standard Daily 2013-11-13 #6282031
Rank: 2
Archetype: B
$105.78

[deck]
Lands (25)
3 Golgari Guildgate
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Overgrown Tomb
10 Swamp
2 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Mystery

Creatures (15)
3 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
4 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel

Spells (20)
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Devour Flesh
1 Doom Blade
2 Ultimate Price
3 Gaze of Granite
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos

Sideboard (15)
1 Nightveil Specter
1 Thoughtseize
1 Underworld Connections
1 Deadbridge Chant
2 Duress
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Golgari Charm
3 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Pharika's Cure
1 Pithing Needle[/deck]

How do you think they board vs us? I
imagine:

+3 [card]Pharika's Cure[/card], +1 Golgari Charm, -2 Thoughtseize, -2 Underworld Connections

[magicdownunder]

You can run Assemble the Legion or race, its not the best MU but it is winnable.

[Lightning_Dolt]

VS them, I imagine we board:

-3 Boros Reckoner, -2 Mizzium Mortars, -1 Stormbreath Dragon, +4 Chained to the Rocks, +1 Assemble the Legion, +1 [card]Wear // Tear[/card],

Thoughts?

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'm not crazy about MD Reckoners...

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'll run this at FNM:

[deck]Lands 25
13 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 21
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 StormBreath Dragon
1 Tajic, Blade of the Legion

Spells 14
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks


Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Shock
2 Wear // Tear
1 Rod of Ruin[/deck]