[Primer] PyroRed

[Helios]

It also loses protection from red.

Oh goodie so I can cast two spells to kill it instead of one. Not-sarcastic-asshole-response: That's again only relevant if your opponent is bad and attacking / blocking with Master.

[Valdarith]

Who pissed in your wheaties today? Slow your roll, man.

[Helios]

No one, I'm perfectly fine. Thanks for asking though I just seriously think the blue splash is worse, for the reasons outlined above.

[Valdarith]

It helps when you present your thoughts in a less confrontational manner.

There are pros and cons to both. With MDU experimenting with more fliers I think it's worth looking at Spellheart Chimera. Furthermore Turn / Burn may be inferior to Chained against blue but it's fairly even against black and actually better against RW devotion and UWx control. It allows you the ability to fight Blood Baron without boarding narrow cards like Mizzium Mortars in the Esper control match. It counts as an instant for Young Pyromancer. There's just a lot of upside to the card.

Tl;dr: be more objective.

[Helios]

You asked for my thoughts, I gave them. Even pointed out when I was being sarcastic, and provided you with a sarcasm-free version. I have no personal issue with you or anything you said, and am making objective statements about why blue isn't as good a splash as white.

If you have a problem with the way I word my posts and feel that they are confrontational...well, tough noodles. I've got no issue with you.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Z Threw up a PyroRakis list in the Dos Rakis thread, so I took it and fixed an issue I had land-wise, and then rigged up a sideboard. I personally really like the list and will likely try it at fnm.
I'm posting it here, cause this is the slightly more relevant area. (YP$)

[deck]PyroRakis[/deck]

Sideboarding:
Vs U/x Devo and small aggro (rdw or ww):
-4 Cackler, -2 Satyr, +3 Mortars, +3 Doomblade

Vs R/x
Devo and G/x Devo:
-4 Cackler, -2 Satyr, -2 Shock, +3 Mortars, +3 Doomblade, +2 Dreadbore

Vs U/W Control:
-3 Pack Rat, -3 Ultimate Price, +2 Erebos, +2 Rakdos's Return, +2 Dreadbore

Vs Esper Control:
-3 Pack Rat, -3 Ultimate Price, -2 Shock, +2 Erebos, +2 Rakdos's Return, +2 Dreadbore, +2 Mortars

Vs Esper Midrange:
-3 Pack Rat, -4 Cackler, -2 Satyr, +2 Erebos, +3 Mortars, +3 Dark Betrayal, +1 Dreadbore

Vs B/x Devo:
-2 Shock, -4 Magma Jet, -1 Ultimate Price, +2 Erebos, +3 Dark Betrayal, +2 Dreadbore

Vs B/w Control or B/w Devo:
-2 Shock, -4 Magma Jet, -2 Ultimate Price, +2 Erebos, +3 Dark Betrayal, +3 Mortars
(I kinda wanna bring in the dreadbores, but wouldn't be sure what to remove. Hate to say it, but maybe Chandra?)


Any thoughts? Sideboarding might be a bit rough, but it's what I could come up with. I dropped whips from the side, because this list runs less black sources, and I don't want to create bad mana issues out of the side.

[Valdarith]

You only gave thoughts on why it was bad and failed to evaluate why it may be good in comparison. That's the antithesis of objectivism.

Me? I've had my Chained get Abrupt Decayed and Peak Eruptioned enough times for me to get tired of it, which was one of the things that pushed me to black for true Terror effects. Of course even black has its weaknesses like Dreadbore not hitting Master and also not having scryland, but over time I've found it better than RW. Just my two cents.

[Valdarith]

Radia - I really like it. Switching out Ash Zealot for Pack Rat eases the mana base a bit and allows you to play Mutavault which I love. I wonder if the two Satyr should just be Stormbreath Dragon. Would probably want a 24th land though.

[Helios]

Raida, the list looks good to me, let us know how it goes! Best of luck Agree with Val that Stormbreath seems like a good curve-topper here.

Val, if you have a personal issue with me send me a PM. This thread is for Magic, not for me trying to explain objectivity to you (look it up).

[RaidaTheBlade]

I would like stormbreath too, but over many many games of Dos Rakis, I learned the hard way that having a 1-drop out is more important then it should be. Having an early field presence, or just having 2 bodies on the field on turn2 is really big whenever you need to aggro out.
So while I like dragons, I think that the satyrs help with varience a tad, and helps ensure tht you have a 1-drop.

Exava here kinda works like the dragon. She doesn't have flying, which makes me sad, but a 4-power first-striker wins fights with most stuff, for everythng else there's mastercard, I mean kill spells.


Also, 23 land works just fine here I think. The first bit of testing was very positive towards that number.


Edit: It would be possible to go -2 satyr, -1 up, +2 dragon, +1 land, but R/B doesn't have the scryland, so that would hurt us more then help us over a long period, Imo, because of the drop in consistency

[Helios]

Excellent reasoning. Sounds good to me

a 4-power first-striker wins fights with most stuff, for everythng else there's mastercard, I mean kill spells

[magicdownunder]

@RaidaTheBlade: Matt and Valdarith both enjoy and has success with the Pyroblack variant, I'm not comfortable with your SB esp. against control since your running 8 spells which don't deal damage I feel that this will just buy them time to draw cards and just take over. I'm also not convinced that Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch is greater then StormBreath Dragon in a ground dominated format - though I do encourage creativity so good luck with the testing

@Valdarith: I think we had someone try Ru before very early on in the thread, I love the colour combination and Ral Zarek, Spellheart Chimera with Steam Augury could be devastating and extremely fun.

@ALL: I've regain control of the primer (muhahahaha) I'll be posting the PyroSkies list with videos (I really like that deck) if you guys have anything else you want in the primer
let me know.

[Helios]

For future reference, MDU, freedom, and I will all be editing the primer through a shared account, as soon as the posts get transferred.

[Jack]

@ALL: I've regain control of the primer (muhahahaha) I'll be posting the PyroSkies list with videos (I really like that deck) if you guys have anything else you want in the primer let me know.

To clarify, Helios made a new account (YP$) that would be given control of the primer and shared between me, him and MDU.

[Jack]

Damn you, Helios.

[Helios]

Sorry I'm a ninja.

[Googims]

@RaidaTheBlade
have you thought about putting in a tymaret? with the 6 burns, pyromaster, recuring phoenixes and blowing them up after they attack if you have mana up for the turn?
and with the young pyromancers with the other 4 spells, even more value with the tokens being sac'd?
also if you want the stormbreath dragons, and the 24th land I guess cutting a up, both firedrinkers and a pyromancer for the 2 dragons, extra land and a tyramet?
or you can just add the tyramet have the 2 firedrinkers and if they get burned sac them in response for the extra 2dmg?

I'm thinking of trying it out tomorrow night, hopefully it goes well!

[Helios]

Welcome Googims! Tymaret is good stuff, search the thread and you'll find some good results from people who have played him.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Tymaret definitely is powerful in the right shell, and I have considered him in place of the 2 satyrs. That said. The consistency issues still stand. I just really want my scry land already e.e

I'm gonna leave it like it is for now I think for fnm, since Z is the one who originslly posted this, and he knows much more then me

So any tinkering will come after actual results, instead of a few friendly games and goldfishing.

[Googims]

hello helios and thanks! found the search function and I've been skimming through the notes/builds

@RaidaTheBlade
I actually put in 2 temples that kind of slows down the deck, but there's no early hasties anyways so I thought it might be okay, I also took out another exava and put in a 3rd shock
not sure if that's the right idea, but I felt with a 2/2 split I won't see them in my opening hand or at most just 1.
hopefully i'll be able to put in a good couple of hours into playing this deck and tweaking it tomorrow night

[DriftingLifted]

@MDU Are you still running Legions Initiative? The Skies variant looked very fun and I was keen on trying it over my Ash Zealot configuration once I pick up some Skyknights. Will probably pick up some original art ones in a few days. Does the two drop slot ever feel awkward or slow with only YP filling the position? I find I like to hold it as more of a later turn play, but occasional just drop him on the board if it looks safe.
And how was game 5 of your MOCS qualifiers? Really appreciate the videos.

[Purp]

I. love. ash. zealot.

[magicdownunder]

@DriftingLifted: I'm still running Legions Initiative, I'm actually in the process of rebuilding the list from the ground up - going to run some Ash.

MOCS Qualifiers? Are you referring to the Champion Qualifiers (they're diff.)? If its the latter, I split the final round with SoKu who is a fellow grinder - since he already had a spot so he just gave it too me (yay, grinder unite).

[DriftingLifted]

Ah yes, the MOCS ended recently, yah not much of a modo player as you can tell. But that's good to hear.

I'll be looking forward to the list! I feel like Sean Connery when I say, I love me some Ash ash well.

[MattT]

Cool list Raida. My sb is the same apart from -1 RR, -1 Dreadbore, +2 Anger of the Gods. Esper aggro is on the rise here and we have plenty of Selesnya too, so Anger is starting to look better and better.

I´ve given up on Tymaret since the last big event where I ended up 25/103 (boo!) which I attribute to 3 erroneous cards whereof he was one. A sparring buddy of mine commented that he probably belongs in a more mid rangey deck to which I am starting to agree with. You simply don´t have the spare mana for his shenanigans in my experience.

As for PyroBlue with Chimera & Turn//Burn I think there´s merit in Izzet Charm too. Phoenix recursion with a filter card that also works as counter and spot removal is massive synergy. Then there´s Ral Zarek and Steam Augury. YP$ loves most of all what Blue offers, but I believe Amcfvieira too. Not yet because as Purp says, the Scrylands make a h*ck of a difference. Rakdos is
coming and Izzet is still on the horizon.

As for the Master and Turn//Burn debate it´s pretty moot that he cannot be targetted by the fused card as when he turns all his little ponies dies. That´s good enough for a card that hits the rest of the meta so well.

What I really, really, really want is another decent 3 drop. SBD is a concession that eats deck space in a deck that wants to have the 6 one drops. My hope is for Mogis, God of Slaughter, as I think the minor gods probably cost 3 cmc.

[Googims]

@MattT
yeah, I read your posts on your recent experiences a couple of hours ago and redid my deck, I have something cooked up for tomorrow night's testing.. hopefully it nets something that I can work on

[poppa_f]

So played in my LGS standard tournament last night with MDUs PyroSkies list (with a tweaked sideboard):
[deck]Creature (18)
4x Chandra's Phoenix
3x Firedrinker Satyr
4x Rakdos Cackler
2x Skyknight Legionnaire
2x Stormbreath Dragon
3x Young Pyromancer

Enchantment (4)
3x Chained to the Rocks
1x Legion's Initiative

Sorcery (2)
2x Mizzium Mortars

Land (23)
1x Boros Guildgate
11x Mountain
3x Mutavault
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Temple of Triumph

Instant (11)
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
3x Shock

Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
Sideboard (15)
2x Angelic Edict
3x Boros Reckoner
1x Chained to the Rocks
1x Flames of the Firebrand
2x Glare of Heresy
1x Hammer of Purphoros
2x Mizzium Mortars
3x Skullcrack[/deck]


Round 1: Won 2-0 vs Simic rogue deck with Prophet of Kuprix. This was a very easy win. I love playing against decks like this as I can remove all of their threats and just
beat down with early creature drops. Both games were over by turn 6-7 with me taking no damage

Round 2: Won 2-0 vs G/r monsters. This was another very easy win. He was playing quite a quirky list with Bow of Nylea, Nylea and fatties. I sided out my x/s and sided in my big removal for the second match. Both games were very straightforward as I just removed his fatties and beat down with my flyers

Round 3: Lost 2-1 vs U/b devotion. This was against a really solid player. He was playing the standard MUD list but with a black splash for far//away, thoughtsieze and doomblade. First game I mulled to 6 and he thoughtseized me in turn 1, so I never really got going. Second game I drew enough white removal to keep MoW in check and managed to beat down with YP tokens and Phoenix. Last game was very tight. I made a pretty stupid mulligan decision when I mulled to 6 and then kept a hand that was 3 mountains, 1 scryland, 1 mutavault and hammer of purphoros (I figured land flood mitigated by hammer and mutavault). I
was short of removal so he managaed to get Thassa corporeal and beat me down with that. With hindsight I think I should have mulled to 5 and prayed for land and removal.

Round 4: Lost 2-0 vs G/w aggro. This was a incredibly frustrating match. Game 1 he was on the play and went turn 2 Voice, turn 4 advent of the worm and then turn 5 bestowed boon satyr on to the worm. gg. I sideboard in all of my removal, including 2 glare of heresy and the 3 reckoners. We both mull to 6 and my 6 card hand is 2 scrylands and 4 spells. I didn't see another land card until turn 6, by which time he has polukranos and voice bestowed with boon satyr on the board.

I had a decent chance in all 4 matches and think I'll play an identical 75 for the win a box tournament coming up weekend after next. My immediate reaction after losing to worm tokens was to add ratchet bomb to the side, but having slept on it I know this was just a knee-jerk reaction to losing like that. I think I've already got a good edge against that deck
post-board, just need to draw some bloody lands next time.

[magicdownunder]

Why Angelic Edict? LB is many times better then Angelic Edict.

Also I just wanted to note that my Pyroskies experiments didn't work-out today - I was trying to cram too many cards in which made boarding very awkward .

[poppa_f]

Why Angelic Edict? LB is many times better then Angelic Edict.

So both of these cards are mainly to deal with master of waves. In the MUD matchup, the post-board games generally go long, as I've sided out my 1 drop creatures and sided in removal. My game plan is to keep their devotion low with removal and win via card advantage from YP, chandra, Phoenix etc. I'll normally hit 5 lands+ in these games, so it's *almost* as good as LB in this matchup (and as a bonus I can remove incorporeal Thassa and Bident if needed, and the opponent doesn't get 4 life)

What I like about Angelic Edict is that I can also board it in against any decks that runs fatties, so desecration demon,
polukranos, advent of the worm etc. I find having 4 terror effects in chained is often too few in these match-ups. It's also handy when you play against golgari and they have sided in golgari charm and abrupt decay to deal with chained.

That said, I'm not 100% convinced by it. 5 Mana is ludicrous for a sorcery speed removal and with only 23 lands, you will sometimes not curve out in time for it to be relevant. It makes me want to play the Dos Rakis variant, so I can play doomblade and be done with it, however I don't like that there are no scrylands in that deck. My plan at the moment is to stick with PyroSkies (as I know the deck pretty well now), but then switch to Dos Rakis when Born of the Gods lauches with B/R scrylands.

[magicdownunder]

This is just me nit-picking now, but can we stop calling Ux Devotion MUD? MUD was the name used for an old artifact deck.

[Keftenk]

This is just me nit-picking now, but can we stop calling Ux Devotion MUD? MUD was the name used for an old artifact deck.

You're not nit-picking, it makes sense. Even though this is Standard, every time I see MUD written I still think of it right off the bat instead of Ux Devotion lol ;\

[Purp]

Got a PTQ and a Super IQ next weekend. Debating between Boros Aggro and PyroDrag. I have 3 days to test in a sanctioned event: GPT tommorow, TNM and ThursNM next week.

[deck]Creatures:19
2 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells:16
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet

Sluts: 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster


Lands:23
11 Mountain
1 Boros Guildgate
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard:15
1 Glare? (LZ how was the one of wear/tear?)
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Mutavault
2 Last Breath
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
3 Boros Reckoner[/deck]

[Valdarith]

I´ve given up on Tymaret since the last big event where I ended up 25/103 (boo!) which I attribute to 3 erroneous cards whereof he was one. A sparring buddy of mine commented that he probably belongs in a more mid rangey deck to which I am starting to agree with. You simply don´t have the spare mana for his shenanigans in my experience.

How many Tymaret were in your deck? I've found him to be an EXCELLENT one-of. He's won me more games than I can count that I would have otherwise lost.

[d1sh0ng]

Purp, you and I are running the same 73 of 75 now. And Lazer, I know your deck is very similar as well. I'm curious as well to know how the Wear/Tear has been working for you.

I feel like Ash Zealot is a better fit for me personally than Skyknight Legionnaire and Legion's Initiative because the 3 drop slot felt a bit large, so I cut them and a Firedrinker for 4 Ash Zealot so I will see how they do tonight. Unfortunately my weekends are pretty packed the next two weeks so I can't get to some REL Competitive events so I will doing my best to test on MTGO. My goal is to start jumping in 8 mans and get exposed to the top decks as much as possible. My biggest weakness is not being exposed to the top decks as much as I need, so I need to work on that.

I have the 25th of January circled as there is a PTQ in North Carolina I will try to attend.

Here is where I am for tonight deck-wise

[deck]Creatures:19
2
Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells:16
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet

Best Card in Standards: 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster


Lands:23
11 Mountain
1 Boros Guildgate
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard:15
2 Boros Charm
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Mountain
2 Last Breath
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
3 Boros Reckoner[/deck]

Boros Charm is the card I am most on the fence with in the sideboard. I have been trying the 1 Mountain and 1 Stormbreath Dragon and I am liking it against Control and Mono Blue. It may be wrong to bring them in against Mono Blue, but my thinking is that I want to grind the game out with removal and eventually stick a Dragon as a finisher and the extra land and Dragon help with that. Let me know what you all think.

[Helios]

I'd like to here ya'll's thoughts on how well YP$ has been performing recently - we're in almost the same place as the Big Boros list, it's getting to the point that the only difference is -Shock -YP, +Ash, lands, Dragons.

[Valdarith]

Seems fine. It would probably be okay to swap the Guildgate out for a fourth Mutavault since Chained is your only mainboard white spell. Then you could swap the Mountain in your sideboard for the Guildgate since you'll be bringing in white spells postboard.

[MattT]

I´ve given up on Tymaret since the last big event where I ended up 25/103 (boo!) which I attribute to 3 erroneous cards whereof he was one. A sparring buddy of mine commented that he probably belongs in a more mid rangey deck to which I am starting to agree with. You simply don´t have the spare mana for his shenanigans in my experience.

How many Tymaret were in your deck? I've found him to be an EXCELLENT one-of. He's won me more games than I can count that I would have otherwise lost.

Interesting. I have a single one plus 3 Pack Rats. As I said above, he´s great when you
have the mana, but all to often you don´t. Or he shows up to an empty board which also sucks when he could´ve been a Jester or a rat.

[Valdarith]

I don't run Pack Rat and I play a lot more grindy so that could be the difference. Often when I win with him I'm sitting on six mana and a couple of dudes on the board.

[poppa_f]

I'd like to here ya'll's thoughts on how well YP$ has been performing recently - we're in almost the same place as the Big Boros list, it's getting to the point that the only difference is -Shock -YP, +Ash, lands, Dragons.

YP$ has been great for me on MODO and paper magic. Against decks without much removal it can get out of control pretty quickly. I played a match last night where I had 3 in my starting hand and managed to get all 3 on to the board by turn 4. My opponent plays Polukranos, which I zapped with two bolt cards generating 6 tokens, which was pretty much game over for him. The dream ticket is when this happens with a legion's initiative on the board. Also comes in handy as a sac outlet for DD. I think the only matchup I don't like
him in is U/w control and Esper, as the tokens normally get verdicted or Jaced.

[d1sh0ng]

Young Pyromaster has been great. Even the times it eats removal, it helps push through my other creatures. I find it shines against Mono Black as it can overwhelm their removal and provide a way to deal with Desecration Demon. It's not terrible against Control in my opinion, I tend to only commit the Pyromancer to the board and force my opponent to Verdict the Pyromancer and the tokens.

The one matchup I'm not too sure about the Pyromancer is Mono Blue. The sideboarding plan against Mono Blue lends itself well to keeping in the Pyromancer, but I'd rather just control the ground with Ash Zealot. Plus a Jace just blanks the tokens from getting aggressive.