Dies To Removal Mafia - Game Over (Mafia Win)

rezombad · Postby **rezombad** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:12 am

not voting:
rcwraspy, zem, doclawless, freedom, hamfactorial, lmd, gr

DroppinSuga · Postby **DroppinSuga** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:14 am

I WILL NOT POST LISTS OF WHO IS NOT VOTING, YOU CAN SEE THAT INFO BY COMPARING THE VOTE COUNT TO THE LIST OF PLAYERS STILL ALIVE

rezombad · Postby **rezombad** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:14 am

i posted it for my own sanity, not as a shot at you.

go get a job.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:15 am

That makes wagon analysis harder. Don't be lazy. Doooooo Eeeeeeet.

DroppinSuga · Postby **DroppinSuga** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:16 am

REZOMBAD WILL BE MOD KILLED IF HE CONTINUES WITH HIS LIP

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:17 am

Yeeeeaaahhhh dat FOS favouritism <3

rezombad · Postby **rezombad** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:19 am

Yeeeeaaahhhh dat FOS favouritism <3

you better check yourself z.
lest you wreck yourself

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:19 am

Desperately looking for meaningful content from:

- Hamfactorial (you've acknowledged reading the thread; I have asked you to start asking questions twice. If you're unclear about everyone, how are you going to become less unclear?)
- Freedom (you earned a lot of town cred with your responses to the slip, now be a good townie and find scum please)
- LMD (stop lurking bro).

Going to re-read G_R now; please address my question regarding your case on him when you get a chance Pie. I won't be happy if you turn around with "all will be revealed at some point in the future" or yet another deflection. Start making a real case.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:21 am

Yeeeeaaahhhh dat FOS favouritism <3
you better check yourself z.
lest you wreck yourself

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:24 am

Desperately looking for meaningful content from:

- Hamfactorial (you've acknowledged reading the thread; I have asked you to start asking questions twice. If you're unclear about everyone, how are you going to become less unclear?)
- Freedom (you earned a lot of town cred with your responses to the slip, now be a good townie and find scum please)
- LMD (stop lurking bro).

Going to re-read G_R now; please address my question regarding your case on him when you get a chance Pie. I won't be happy if you turn around with "all will be revealed at some point in the future" or yet another deflection. Start making a real case.

/ barn

rezombad · Postby **rezombad** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:27 am

barning yourself z? you're losing it.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:35 am

I think there would have been at least 1 scum on my early wagon: imopen2, Stardust, InflatablePie or Wraith223.

imopen2 and Pie are the most suspect of the two for me; will be re-looking over their posts, as well as GR.

hamfactorial · Postby **hamfactorial** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:37 am

Desperately looking for meaningful content from:

- Hamfactorial (you've acknowledged reading the thread; I have asked you to start asking questions twice. If you're unclear about everyone, how are you going to become less unclear?)
- Freedom (you earned a lot of town cred with your responses to the slip, now be a good townie and find scum please)
- LMD (stop lurking bro).

Going to re-read G_R now; please address my question regarding your case on him when you get a chance Pie. I won't be happy if you turn around with "all will be revealed at some point in the future" or yet another deflection. Start making a real case.

I'll try to step up my contributions when I have more free time.

Re. your earlier question on mafia reads,
I find Pie scummy because of his earlier stated strategy of actively working on his town game (page 3). Fill the roster with LMD and raspy because of lurking.

I think you're town, but this aggressive stuff is going to really confuse the new players who haven't seen mode 7 Z. Plus, my god the text walls!

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:44 am

Thanks. That helps. I use spoilers now!

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:44 am

I just imagine that everyone said Stonewright was bad.

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:47 am

I have a feeling that this is going to be a long Day.

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:52 am

z: I want to be a "good townie" and hunt scum, I'm just not sure what to ask.

InflatablePie · Postby **InflatablePie** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:02 am

ALL WILL BE REVEALED AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE*

also yeah I don't get why the mods here don't like to put a Not Voting. yes, they're in the OP. it wouldn't hurt to take a few seconds to add the list of everyone else (in the time it takes to yell at us about Not Votings). personally, when I mod, it helps me, because I can copy the last VC and just cut-paste names around, which is easier when I have a not voting category. *shrug!*, whatever, it's the mod's choice I guess.

*and the future is now:
he ignored freedom, when I called him out on it he responded with "I wasn't ignoring him I just didn't comment because I think he's town" or... something like that. He unvoted you but didn't post again until the wagon had already dissolved. This looks like he was waiting to see what happened with the wagon, as evidenced by the fact that he unvoted around the same time. You were the leader of the wagon (in
timing at the least), so that helps confirm my theory (yes, I'm assuming you two are both scum for that part to make sense). Please note that there's a slim chance you're still town and GR could still be scum, that reasoning still holds even if I take out the last sentence. However, when I asked you to vote GR because you thought he was scum, you did not. Further cementing my theory.

Also notable is that Wraith thought GR was scum, even calling me out on calling GR scum but not voting him (I respond in the same post where I switched to GR). Later he asks me why I'm abandoning my read on you (z). Actually, I literally just caught that, and Wraith is moving near the scum-list in my book. Even if y'all aren't scum together, that action alone makes Wraith scummy, but it helps that all three of you are linked here.

Originally, not that you asked, I thought Wraith was town given his mindset when scumhunting earlier today. That's changed, as he seems to be very accusatory and mudslinging as of late.

nre: ham, LMD, freedom. They don't really matter right now. Ham's reason for thinking I'm scum is kiiind of valid but that'd be a terribly weak reason to push strongly.

InflatablePie · Postby **InflatablePie** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:05 am

The fact that Wraith has been focusing on me and you're slowly setting yourself up to develop a scumread on me (which anyone can see if they read your posts after I started accusing you) is also both slightly worrying and slightly funny. I'm assuming you can guess why.

Mcdonalds · Postby **Mcdonalds** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:28 am

RE: LMD

Its mostly inactivity, which I think I substantially overvalue.

You could just read my posts and see the explanation for that

Speaking of

OOG: Due to reasons I can't really explain without a long paragraph, my work isn't quite as bad as I thought, that said, I may end up disappearing for two days between now and sunday, I'll try and say something but I have no idea.

@Z I am working on a response to your question from earlier

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:31 am

( G_R ) Review

This game has a lot of members I've never met before.

@zem: do you really think a three-vote wagon is long enough to assure that a scum is already involved in it?

I didn't lie last time I said I have trouble telling rez and zem apart.

This could be scumG_R trying to dissuade me from looking at my wagon for his scum buddies. Or it could be TownG_R helping a new player. I would lean town motivation here.

And nope, not ignoring freedom. I just think he was stupid enough to hand himself in a plater for a lynch. I did something similar in my first game of mafia, only unwillingly. I didn't get lynched that time though.

Can you clarify this statement G_R? What is your read on Freedom?

I'm saying that all these walls of text are bullshit. They're distracting and seem to me like attempts at looking all analytic and shit, while actually providing little REAL content to work with.

What is real content? What is your preferred approach to scum hunting? Can you give me an example of a recent town game of yours to look at?

Read in case of Death (2)
reads roughly in descending order.

very town:
3. freedom
2. DocLawless

town:
7. Stardust
12. Rezombad
8. imopen2
9. wraith223
4. Hamfactorial

null:
10. LMD
5. rcwraspy

scum:
1. Zemanjaski
11. G_R
@Infallible_Pi: Did your first list have the same structure? If so, what made you move Wraith2345784 from null to town? LMD from town to null?

What is exactly your case against zemanjasaki? How about yours trully, is it just the "ignored freedom" thing?

/ barn. I find it a little strange that G_R cares what Pie's case is, given how little pressure was on him. Basically Pie just keeps calling him scum but doesn't really form an argument;
overall this is null to me.

RE votes:

The only thing I have to deal with the scum are my votes. I want to be assertive and lynch scum to get a good head start. All this gambits and people I've never played with have me double thinking my reads.

This reads good for town, but actions speak louder than words.

Overall: Completely null. There is pro-town motivation or at least the possibility of it in his actions, but he hasn't conclusively done anything yet.

imopen2 review

Which, if it is a joke, is a distraction imo.

Discussed already, but how it was a distraction on
the first page is beyond anyone. It wasn't.

What is your experience with mafia? Why do you think I am joking? Why would you only consider a lynch on Ham if I am claiming he is confirmed scum? What do you need to know to go for a lynch?
This is my sixth (?) game I believe. All of them have been played on DtR so you can find my meta easily.

I already said why I thought you were joking. If you really were a "day-cop" with a positive result, you would have posted it immediately (assuming you were going to come forward with your result as you did). The fact that you've since admitted it was a gambit makes this somewhat moot.

I don&#
39;t consider lynching anyone before the game even starts. That is a scum-mindset

You can look at my previous games for proof but I rarely am part of a lynch vote. I like to feel confident in my vote. I am confident that you are scum based on your strange exchange with stardust and your vote jump onto wraith.

Unvote, Vote Zem

This is my second game with you Z and you were town in the other. I feel like your hunting was a little better thought through in that game. If you are town, step it up

Here you vote for me because my hunting hasn't been as good as it was in Ragnarok, in which I didn't even survive Day 1.

@ Stardust

Because if you're claiming cop then I have no real interest in interacting with you today. We may be able to generate a scenario that verifies your claim.

That said, I doubt you'd out such a power role to counter claim an obvious gambit.

Still, answer, now. You've dodged several times already. If you're making it up, why counter claim a gambit at all? Explain please.
On reread, I want to make note of the mindset in this post too. You're thinking of me only as a target, not as a potential teammate.

imopen, please elaborate on your meta read.
In iso's game, Z was asking a lot of questions and holding people accountable (he was trying to do it to ham iirc and we ended up mislynching but that's besides the point because Z
was town), in this game he has been asking a lot of questions as well, but they don't seem like very meaningful questions. Almost like asking just for the sake of asking/appearing to hunt. It's early but if he is town I want him to turn this around because I think his questions can be valuable if he's thoughtful about them.

Does that help?

This feels pro town, but it is also interesting that you want me to be more thoughtful, but you're not really asking questions yourself.

i'm halfway through pie's post and i'm off of freedom. I reread the series of posts and I think he is just really fucking new right now and he phrased that shit badly.

Unvote, Freedom

Vote, Zem

there's no way he isn't scum

So you barn
Freedom, noted.

"You're going to feel pretty stupid but that's OK."

Zem, why would it be ok if we mislynched toDay? If you are town, do something town. What do you think about Rezombad?

This post didn't stick out to me at the time, but I really don't like it. I had been asking lots of questions and engaging (much more than imopen); there is a marked difference when I tell someone to "ask someone a question" (when they're not engaging with the thread) and here, as I had been one of the most active posters. This reads like imopen just saying something that "Town would say". In the context of the thread discussion at that point, it doesn't make much sense. Asking me about Rezombad is strange also; Rezombad had only made a single serious post at this point.

n

Catching up on the night's events:

Pie is probably town for his white knighting of freedom.

Zem is still scummy. "Guys, I was town before and look how closely I am emulating my behavior!!"

I don't like that imopen equates protecting noobs = town.

Overall: I don't like the feel of this at all. imopen2 has 36 posts and doesn't really question anyone but me throughout. He has a question for DocLawless and for ( G_R ); both for clarification, not really for interrogation. Other than that, his only interactions are to answer questions posed by others (like when DocLawless was asking theory or set-up questions). Comments on other peoples content, but provides very little himself. Move from null to lean town.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:33 am

The fact that Wraith has been focusing on me and you're slowly setting yourself up to develop a scumread on me (which anyone can see if they read your posts after I started accusing you) is also both slightly worrying and slightly funny. I'm assuming you can guess why.

Because you're scum? That was easy.

@ LMD; yeah I know you have a low posting style, but at some point you have to say something! Thanks for remembering my questions.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:47 am

z: I want to be a "good townie" and hunt scum, I'm just not sure what to ask.

Tell me your preferred strategy for catching scum then.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:52 am

ALL WILL BE REVEALED AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE*

also yeah I don't get why the mods here don't like to put a Not Voting. yes, they're in the OP. it wouldn't hurt to take a few seconds to add the list of everyone else (in the time it takes to yell at us about Not Votings). personally, when I mod, it helps me, because I can copy the last VC and just cut-paste names around, which is easier when I have a not voting category. *shrug!*, whatever, it's the mod's choice I guess.

*and the future is now:
he ignored freedom, when I called him out on it he responded with "I wasn't ignoring him I just didn't comment because I think he's town" or... something like that. He unvoted you but didn't post again until the wagon had already dissolved.
This looks like he was waiting to see what happened with the wagon, as evidenced by the fact that he unvoted around the same time. You were the leader of the wagon (in timing at the least), so that helps confirm my theory (yes, I'm assuming you two are both scum for that part to make sense). Please note that there's a slim chance you're still town and GR could still be scum, that reasoning still holds even if I take out the last sentence. However, when I asked you to vote GR because you thought he was scum, you did not. Further cementing my theory.

Also notable is that Wraith thought GR was scum, even calling me out on calling GR scum but not voting him (I respond in the same post where I switched to GR). Later he asks me why I'm abandoning my read on you (z). Actually, I literally just caught that, and Wraith is moving near the scum-list in my book. Even if y'all aren't scum together, that action alone makes Wraith scummy, but it helps that all three of you are linked here.
n
Originally, not that you asked, I thought Wraith was town given his mindset when scumhunting earlier today. That's changed, as he seems to be very accusatory and mudslinging as of late.

re: ham, LMD, freedom. They don't really matter right now. Ham's reason for thinking I'm scum is kiiind of valid but that'd be a terribly weak reason to push strongly.

So if I am almost certainly scum, why go after G_R before me? Do you think he is the easier lynch now?

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:54 am

Thread recap:

Zem: I am town
Pie: Zem's scum!

Stardust: Zem's town
Pie: Zem's scum! Better lynch G_R!

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:56 am

Yo Doc, when you get a chance, can you give your thoughts on #338 and #339?

InflatablePie · Postby **InflatablePie** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:10 am

So if I am almost certainly scum, why go after G_R before me? Do you think he is the easier lynch now?

I voted you. I switched to GR after you called him scum. I had a scumread on him anyway. You refused to vote GR. I switched back to you.

What are you not getting?

anyone else want to chime in on this?

Thread recap:

Zem: I am town
Pie: Zem's scum!

Stardust: Zem's town
Pie: Zem's scum! Better lynch G_R!

I don't give a frak what Starbuck's reads are. Nice attempt to discredit me.

The fact that Wraith has been focusing on me and you're slowly setting yourself up to develop a scumread on me (which anyone can see if they read your posts after I started accusing you) is also both slightly worrying and slightly funny. I'm assuming you can guess why.
Because you're scum? That was easy.

Wow. You're seriously trying to push me? I'm not afraid of you, z. You'll get lynched before I do.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:18 am

You're hilarious.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:21 am

You flip flop between G_R and me; you switched to G_R after the momentum of the wagon against me started to dissipate. Wraith jumped off, Stardust cooled off. Imopen hasn't been posting. It's just you now.

Go ahead, try and lynch me. I'll flip town.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:22 am

Thread recap:

Zem: I am town
Pie: Zem's scum!

Stardust: Zem's town
Pie: Zem's scum! Better lynch G_R!

I don't give a frak what Starbuck's reads are. Nice attempt to discredit me.

This is the order of events. Why so defensive?

The fact that Wraith has been focusing on me and you're slowly setting yourself up to develop a scumread on me (
which anyone can see if they read your posts after I started accusing you) is also both slightly worrying and slightly funny. I'm assuming you can guess why.
Because you're scum? That was easy.
Wow. You're seriously trying to push me? I'm not afraid of you, z. You'll get lynched before I do.

Uh oh, someone got upset quickly.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:36 am

You sound afraid. You don't make a logical counter-argument, you try to intimidate me.

Stardust won't interact with ( G_R ) on day 1, so you won't get any support there. Whatcha gonna do? Who ya gonna lynch?

DocLawless · Postby **DocLawless** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:39 am

Yo Doc, when you get a chance, can you give your thoughts on #338 and #339?

I just read the entire thread, from front to back. I am very "full" and in need of.. I don't know, alcohol? It's very easy to write this entire thread of exchanges off as paranoid and frustrated towns arguing with each other but the game is to find the tells, right? That part is not very easy. Not to me, anyway.

Pie voted for you, then GR, then you, and now GR again. That is a very focused spread. His switch back to GR followed your insinuation that GR could be scum. Now you won't follow him and he's tilting. Flame wars are not pro-town. Decisions get made based on emotion instead of reasons, which benefits scum.

Pie ran to Freedom's defense, but
I don't know why anyone actually entertained Freedom's slip as a serious scumtell. It read as a net-etiquette slip and nothing more. That conclusion is only my instinct. It is predicated on the assumption that Freedom wouldn't have the brass to come into his first ever game with the ability to swing a play that massive and risky. On the lynch-Freedom wagon: you immediately, then Stardust, then Imopen, then Wraith. Everyone backed off or changed their vote. Pie's defense of Freedom could be intended to mask his alignment, because yes of course we're going to clear Freedom of that slip. It could also just be to help the new guy out. He helped me out when I had questions, so certainly I am biased towards thinking the latter.

Pie has you and GR as his top scum picks, but is trying to run a wagon on GR because between the two of you it is easier to build a case against the player who's contributions have mostly been self-defense than it is to build one against the guy who
posts frequently and with a pro-town leaning (regardless of your actual alignment). I haven't narrowed down who might be scum, but I have narrowed down who I think isn't. That's why I don't have a vote yet. Invariably I'll be asked to defend it and I won't be able to, which seems scummy.

I have to go back and re-read some posts. This thread was a lot to bite off all at once.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:44 am

Yeah, reading huge slabs of text is exhausting.

Who do you think is Town? "I haven't narrowed down who might be scum, but I have narrowed down who I think isn't."

Why are you worried about being lynched? "That's why I don't have a vote yet. Invariably I'll be asked to defend it and I won't be able to, which seems scummy."

hamfactorial · Postby **hamfactorial** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:52 am

I'm off work for the night, going to hit the climbing gym (DYEL?) and catch up on the thread in the morning. Please pose questions to me, it will be easier to reply than to generate fresh analysis while catching up at the same time.

DocLawless · Postby **DocLawless** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:57 am

Yeah, reading huge slabs of text is exhausting.

Who do you think is Town? "I haven't narrowed down who might be scum, but I have narrowed down who I think isn't."

Freedom, Stardust, Wraith (?), you (?). Freedom, because too good to be true often is. Stardust because his voting pattern is scattered, implying an evolving opinion. He's cast more votes than anyone. Wraith... I just get town vibes. Your posts tilt drastically in favor of town, you are encouraging people to do pro-town things, but I am not convinced you don't have secondary motives. But please note that I never said your secondary motives were scummy.

Why are you worried about being lynched? "That's why I don't have a vote yet. Invariably I'll be asked to defend it and I won't be able to, which seems scummy."

I'm not worried about being lynched, I'm worried about not being able to defend my arguments. It would project scum, which would confuse people, and confusion is not pro-town.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:05 am

I'm not after you Doc, but you seem nervous. If you're not scum you have nothing to fear.

So you're clearing 5, can you rank the others from most likely town to scum (or null). No reasons required, just names. You've read the thread so you've got an idea where everyone sits.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:06 am

I'm off work for the night, going to hit the climbing gym (DYEL?) and catch up on the thread in the morning. Please pose questions to me, it will be easier to reply than to generate fresh analysis while catching up at the same time.

If you're not going to ask people questions, post a T/S list.

imopen2 · Postby **imopen2** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:08 am

holy crap you guys posted a fuckton....I can't deal with this right now

DocLawless · Postby **DocLawless** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:18 am

I'm not after you Doc, but you seem nervous. If you're not scum you have nothing to fear.

So you're clearing 5, can you rank the others from most likely town to scum (or null). No reasons required, just names. You've read the thread so you've got an idea where everyone sits.

Not nervous, just on edge. Mafia is intense. I just read 350 posts worth of content and tried to question every one of them.

InflatablePie · Postby **InflatablePie** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:29 am

@Z: not upset, I just have a low tolerance for bullshit coming from experienced players, let alone newbscum.

You sound afraid. You don't make a logical counter-argument, you try to intimidate me.

Says the person who's resorting to trying to get a rise out of me because he can't argue his way out of this. Frak off.

Pie voted for you, then GR, then you, and now GR again.

-snip-

Pie has you and GR as his top scum picks, but is trying to run a wagon on GR because between the two of you it is easier to build a case against the player who's
contributions have mostly been self-defense than it is to build one against the guy who posts frequently and with a pro-town leaning (regardless of your actual alignment)

I'm not voting GR again though?

Also, I'm currently wanting Z lynched, for reasons already explained (scummy responses to cop claim bullshit in the early game, asking lots of questions that go nowhere, and overexplaining which he himself deemed a scumtell). Hence why I joined his wagon in the first place. Then GR was being scummy, I switched over and asked Z and Wraith to both vote another of their claimed scumreads and they refused. It felt to me like they were just calling him scum but not meaning it, which reeks of scum not wanting to bus. Then, they turn on me because I start calling them (and GR) scum together. Truth be told, thanks to that, GR's probably the towniest out of the bunch, but he's not out of the woods (already posted my case on him last page).

Now, I'll happily
lynch any of the three at this moment, though my vote is currently on Z because he'll give the most information when we lynch him due to the sheer number of questions he's asked and connections he's made this game. Also because I don't have time for his bullshit.

That is my reasoning. Do not misrep me.

How is no one else not noticing this shit either? I feel like I'm talking to myself here, no one's responded to me except the people I'm frakking arguing with.

Last game I don't explain shit and catch flak for it. This game I comply and explain every part of my thought process as thoroughly as I can and I get ignored. Frak you guys.

Mafia is intense.

Like camping!

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