Primer: R/w/x Aggro

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Zooligan
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Postby Zooligan » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:18 pm

Couldn't make FNM last night. Going to a free tourny at the same store tonite, settled on this for the growing ranks of G/W and U/W:

[deck=Zooligan's Big Boros v0.3, Week ending 11/9 ]
Creatures (19)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Pyrewild Shaman
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (12)
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet

Enchantments (2)
2 Chained to the Rocks

Plainswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land (24)
14 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard (15)
2 Chained to the Rocks
2
Mizzium Mortars
1 Wear // Tear
2 Skullcrack
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Warleader's Helix
2 Traitorous Instinct[/deck]

Post results tomorrow.
Why two dragons? You could probably get away with 23 land.
Dealing out 50 or so hands and looking at the first 5 draw cards (didn't take scrys into account) left me wanting on mana with 23 too much of the time.

Could go 3 dragons and 3 Boros Charm I suppose, but two feels right. Don't end up with too many dragons too early too much of the time.

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FNM Report 11/8/13

Postby NerdBoyWonder » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:34 pm

[deck]Creatures 24
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrink Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Artifacts 1
1 Hammer of Purphoros

Instants & Sorceries 10
4 Magma Jet
3 Boros Charm
2 Mizzium Motors

Land 24
14 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault

Sideboard
3 Anger the Gods
4 Chained to Rocks
2 Burning Earth
2 Wear//Tear
2 Warleader's Helix
1 Boros Charm
1 Assemble the Legion[/deck]

VS B/w - 2-1
Game 1
Couldn't deal with Demon for too long. Had a magma jet in hand. If it was a Lightning Strike I would have taken it.
Game 2 Board out Hammer and all one drops. Board in 4x Chains, 2x Helix, Assemble. Left in one cackler. He mulls to six and I keep. Remove everything he has and beat him down with Phoenix.
Game 3 keep same side. Same as game 2. Chain his field and beat
Him
down with Phoenix.

Vs Junk Midrange
Game 1. Should have beat him but he lucked out and had his one copy of tristani in play and combo lifed me with Ghost Dad. He admitted he should have lost.
Board out one drops and hammer. Board in chains, assemble,Helixes and burning earths. Never see a white land to remove his field.

Vs GruulDW. 2-1
Game 1 rolls me over. Flooded.
Game 2 board into control. Angers in, Chains in, Helixes in, one drops out and hammer out. Chain and Anger his board. Beat him down with Phoenix.
Game 3 he mulls to 5. Sees no land so I go beat down and win turn 4.

Vs W/b Aggro 2-0
This match up was against my buddy. During testing he stomped the shit out of me. Archangel of Thune is a bitch.
Game 1 got magma jet Ashley Phoenix land in my opening hand. Instead of racing I played bird control eventually slammed a dragon down and out played an Archangel & Obzedat. Dragon, Mutavault, Phoenix and Ashley attack for the win.
Game 2 board out my one drops and hammer, bring in
Chained, helix, and wear//tears. See 3 magma jet, and a Helix. Remove his board, he hits. Land pocket and I slam Ashley, Phoenix and Dragon.

Went 3-1 taking 4th out of 10 people. Magma Jet is okay. The game that it shined in was against W/b Aggro but only because I saw 3 of them and managed to pull Stormy D out on curve by scrying 6. My meta likes big creatures though and against that junk match up I needed Lightning Strikes instead of M-Jets to kill Lions pre-indestructibility. Also as said before switching Chained for Mizziums because while the switch back to Strikes will hit most things Mizzium misses most of the big creatures that are out of range. Chain shits all over the big guy plan.

Dropping my beloved hammer because my meta dictates that it is not needed. Esper has disappeared and Black Devotion is on the rise. So trading a hammer out for a Boros Charm for extra protection.

New list looks like:
[deck]Creatures 24
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrink Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
n4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Instants & Sorceries 10
4 Lightning Strikes
4 Boros Charm
2 Chained To Rocks

Land 24
14 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault

Sideboard
3 Anger the Gods
2 Chained to Rocks
2 Burning Earth
2 Wear//Tear
2 Warleader's Helix
2 Mizzium Motors
1 ???
1 Assemble the Legion[/deck]
Don't know what to put in my last sideboard slot.
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Postby Lightning_Dolt » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:03 am

2 Dragons = 23 land
3 Dragons = 24 land
4 Dragons = 25 land.

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Postby Zooligan » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:02 am

Yeah, well, my night went like this (25 land, remember):

M1 - G/W
G1 - he's mana screwed. win
G2 - he flashed in a 2/2 Knight off Selesnya Charm at end of my turn when I was tapped out, dressed it up with Unflinching Courage during his turn putting it out of Lightning Strike Range. Next turn drew a magma Jet to stack with Strike, but didn't have the mana. Next turn he puts another Courage on it and puts it out of Strike/Jet range. Too much lifegain and trample damage puts the game out of reach.
G3 - couldn't keep up with double Voice and their tokens and Advent tokens with populate effects
0-1-0

M2 - Dimir Aggro/Mill thing
G1/G2 crushed
1-1-0

M3 - Mono-black Devotion
G1 - everything worked right. nice curve out. win
G2 - 1-land 7 mull, 1-land 6 keep. has endless Doom Blades, Hero's Downfall, Devour Flesh. demons me to death.
G3 - 1-land 7 mull. 6 ok, but never draw a white source. do draw 3 (!)
Chained to the Rocks, which are dead cards in my hand. can't interact. lose.
1-2-0

M4 - R/U thing
New guy doesn't know what he's doing
G1 - being nice to new dude and not really paying attention, allow hin to kill my dragon and can't recover
G2/3 - decide to pay attention and crush. sorry, new guy.
2-2-0

Thoughts? Meh. Dunno. It's one thing to mope around and be like "I've got the worst card luck ever," but when your opponents tell you "Dude, you might have the worst card luck ever" you kinda start to believe it. I mean really, it's not like I don't know how to shuffle, and I get three 1-land hands in a row running 25 in my deck... :iiam:
Last edited by Zooligan on Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Lightning_Dolt » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:03 am

Yeah, well, my night went like this (25 land, remember):

M1 - G/W
G1 - he's mana screwed. win
G2 - he flashed in a 2/2 Knight off Selesnya Charm at end of my turn when I was tapped out, dressed it up with Unflinching Courage during his turn putting it out of Lightning Strike Range. Next turn drew a magma Jet to stack with Strike, but didn't have the mana. Next turn he puts another Courage on it and puts it out of Strike/Jet range. Too much lifegain and trample damage puts the game out of reach.
G3 - couldn't keep up with double Voice and their tokens and Advent tokens with populate effects
0-1-0

M2 - Dimir Aggro/Mill thing
G1/G2 crushed
1-1-0

M3 - Mono-black Devotion
G1 - everything worked right. nice curve out. win
G2 - 1-land 7
mull, 1-land 6 keep. has endless Doom Blades, Hero's Downfall, Devour Flesh. demons me to death.
G3 - 1-land 7 mull. 6 ok, but never draw a white source. do draw 3 (!) Chained to the Rocks, which are dead cards in my hand. can't interact. lose.
1-2-0

M4 - R/U thing
New guy doesn't know what he's doing
G1 - being nice to new dude and not really paying attention, allow hin to kill my dragon and can't recover
G2/3 - decide to pay attention and crush. sorry, new guy.
2-2-0

Thoughts? Meh. Dunno. It's one thing to mope around and be like "I've got the worst card luck ever," but when your opponents tell you "Dude, you might have the worst card luck ever" you kinda start to believe it. I mean really, it's not like I don't know how to shuffle, and I get three 1-land hands in a row running 25 in my deck... :iiam:
Rough... Just shrug it
off and try again.

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Postby Zooligan » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:07 am

I'm sure it's just natural variance.

What I need to figure out is how to beat these G/W enchantment decks. Once these guys get suited up, get out of burn range, and start gaining tons of life it's pretty much GG... for them...

Losing that Match 1 against G/W got me paired down and kept me off facing U/W and Esper, which might have been easier matchups.

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Postby Lightning_Dolt » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:14 am

I'm sure it's just natural variance.

What I need to figure out is how to beat these G/W enchantment decks. Once these guys get suited up, get out of burn range, and start gaining tons of life it's pretty much GG... for them...

Losing that Match 1 against G/W got me paired down and kept me off facing U/W and Esper, which might have been easier matchups.
Chained to the Rocks, Last Breath, Anger of the Gods and [card]Wear // Tear[/card] are all possible answers.

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Postby salmonman78 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:57 am

Well I went to SCG today, did well first round even made the feature match.

I fucked it up and he had every answer, dunno if it was nerves that just really made it bad or what.

Then I faced Esper, every, damn, round after. If I see one more Blood Baron or Obzedat I will puke.

So I apologize for looking like a moron on the stream. >.< lol!

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Postby Lightning_Dolt » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:21 am

Well I went to SCG today, did well first round even made the feature match.

I fucked it up and he had every answer, dunno if it was nerves that just really made it bad or what.

Then I faced Esper, every, damn, round after. If I see one more Blood Baron or Obzedat I will puke.

So I apologize for looking like a moron on the stream. >.< lol!
Cool. Look forward to seeing it. Are you going to write a report?

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Postby magicdownunder » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:38 am

what do you guys hate more? Being AoT, facing down a dragon, hammer or Warleader helix? (I'm trying to find better ways in dealing with Big R/RW)
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Postby Lightning_Dolt » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:46 am

Probably boros charm, which can blank our AotG and dome us for a dragon's worth of damage.

AoT will net you four damage plus a falter at most.

Hammer could be a pain, but I think we have enough removal to invalidate it.

WLH is a life swing, but can't hurt out dragons.

Dragons might be ok on the play, but we'll hit 5 mana more consistently than you and have 4 dragons to your two.

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Postby magicdownunder » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:49 am

Probably boros charm, which can blank our AotG and dome us for a dragon's worth of damage.

AoT will net you four damage plus a falter at most.

Hammer could be a pain, but I think we have enough removal to invalidate it.

WLH is a life swing, but can't hurt out dragons.

Dragons might be ok on the play, but we'll hit 5 mana more consistently than you and have 4 dragons to your two.
Thanks :D - Ok how about Haunted Plate Mail? It seems horrible at first glance but its really hard to deal with.

(gonna try Boros Charm for next DE)
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Postby Lightning_Dolt » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:30 am

Probably boros charm, which can blank our AotG and dome us for a dragon's worth of damage.

AoT will net you four damage plus a falter at most.

Hammer could be a pain, but I think we have enough removal to invalidate it.

WLH is a life swing, but can't hurt out dragons.

Dragons might be ok on the play, but we'll hit 5 mana more consistently than you and have 4 dragons to your two.
Thanks :D - Ok how about Haunted Plate Mail? It seems horrible at
first glance but its really hard to deal with.

(gonna try Boros Charm for next DE)
It's a 4/4 that doesn't fly. Can likely go over the top. It might be good if you equip it to something. Worth trying.

Call me crazy, but what about demolish? Yiu could punk the Nykthos builds, because their deck sucks without that land.

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Postby magicdownunder » Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:19 pm

As a Big Boros player, does Peak Eruption scare you? The meta game is annoying me as of late...
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Postby Zooligan » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:01 pm

As a Big Boros player, does Peak Eruption scare you? The meta game is annoying me as of late...
Are you staying with PyroWhite, or moving to something else?

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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:18 pm

As a Big Boros player, does Peak Eruption scare you? The meta game is annoying me as of late...
Not really. Most of the things we run are red and the only white mana source that can be hit is sacred foundry but we have Boros charm in the main to protect our permanents.
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Postby Lightning_Dolt » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:07 am

I've never had peak eruption played against me. If it kept me off five maba it would bother me. Otherwise, probably not.

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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:41 am

Found out they scheduled a Standard tourney this Sunday. Will most likely attend and will have a report.
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Postby Wipe Out » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:30 am

So how are people feeling about Big Boros? I have been having a lot of fun playing it. Over the last month I've swapped through PyroRed, MonoRed Devotion, Walter White, and Big Boros. By far the deck I enjoy the most so far, I think because it lets me play the cards I want (reckoner, stormbreath, chandra, muta), is Big Boros. However, just based on the forum in general, I get the idea the consensus is PyroRed/WW are the most competitive decks. Maybe it is just MODO/high level meta vs. my LGS FNM meta but I have substantially more success with Big Boros (admittedly, a good explanation could be my piloting ability) even after playtesting WW a lot. Just wondering if people are giving up on Big B or it seems to have a reasonable future in standard for the time being.

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Postby magicdownunder » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:03 am

[quote="Wipe Out » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:30 pm"]So how are people feeling about Big Boros? I have been having a lot of fun playing it. Over the last month I've swapped through PyroRed, MonoRed Devotion, Walter White, and Big Boros. By far the deck I enjoy the most so far, I think because it lets me play the cards I want (reckoner, stormbreath, chandra, muta), is Big Boros. However, just based on the forum in general, I get the idea the consensus is PyroRed/WW are the most competitive decks. Maybe it is just MODO/high level meta vs. my LGS FNM meta but I have substantially more success with Big Boros (admittedly, a good explanation could be my piloting ability) even after playtesting WW a lot. Just wondering if people are giving up on Big B or it seems to have a reasonable future in standard for the time being.[
/quote]

Big Boros isn't a bad deck, in a meta chock full of aggressive decks Big Boros should come out on top.

PyroRed/White in the other hand has a slightly harder time with those MUs while you can win you have to put an effort towards that end, sandbagging burns + creatures, accepting that life is a resource and timing is key.

PyroRed/White is only the preferred choice because it beats MonoBlack and Control quite badly (which is what you expect in a high level event).

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Postby Zooligan » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:58 pm

Does the lack of young pyro really change those matchups so drastically?

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Postby magicdownunder » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:04 pm

Does the lack of young pyro really change those matchups so drastically?
Depends on the variant, but you don't want to be casting Boros Reckoner and Stormbreath Dragon into Doom Blades . . .

EDIT1: Please note, when I talk about Big Red I refer to the Big Red played on Modo - I notice that the version you guys run (aka M.F.D will have a better time against them).
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Postby Zooligan » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:23 pm

Hey MDU,

Here's my current deck for this week. It should look pretty familiar as it's basically PyroWhite (BTE version) with the Pyromancers gone, a couple lands and a couple Dragons added in, and Boros Charm replacing the Shocks. I had been running a Zealot-based 2-drop version, but decided to give BTE a go. Any thoughts on how to tune it up?

[deck=Zooligan's Big Boros v1.1 Week Ending 11/16/2013]Creatures (21)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Firefist Striker
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Instants (12)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm

Enchantments (2)
2 Chained to the Rocks

Plainswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land (23)
13 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard (15)
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Wear // Tear
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Traitorous Instinct[/deck]

Local meta
is G/W, some W/r, Esper, U/W, MonoBlack and B/R, maybe one MonoBlue.

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Postby Wipe Out » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:47 pm

Big Boros isn't a bad deck, in a meta chock full of aggressive decks Big Boros should come out on top.

PyroRed/White in the other hand has a slightly harder time with those MUs while you can win you have to put an effort towards that end, sandbagging burns + creatures, accepting that life is a resource and timing is key.

PyroRed/White is only the preferred choice because it beats MonoBlack and Control quite badly (which is what you expect in a high level event).
I feel like Big Boros still has a strong match up against Esper and even with all their removal, Monoblack hasn't given me as much of a hard time as say B/w control...if they can get Obzedat and a Whip going it becomes a big problem for me. American Control also gives me a hard time as well. For MonoBlack I think I just need to focus on being the beatdown and trying to remove any big devotion they might get. I guess
my question is, in a variety of metas currently found in Standard, is Big Boros a strong deck or is PyroWhite the stronger overall deck? Is PyroWhite such a strong deck because it is very tuned to the MODO meta, or is it stronger in paper as well in people's experience?

For reference, this is the list I've been playing

[deck]
Creatures: 24
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells: 9
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Lightning Strike / Magma Jet

Redheads: 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land: 25
13 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
[/deck]

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Postby magicdownunder » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:39 am

@Zooligan, here are my thoughts:

1) I have very little faith in my own ability to draw lands so I wouldn't play 2 dragons with 23 lands
2) I think Ash is better then BtE here because FFS is your only viable T2 chain (you can't really afford to Magma Jet dome on turn 2 with your limited removals).
3) You have 10 cards which require white sources, has that been working for you?
4) Act of Treason is usually better then Traitorous Instinct when you have many 2cc spells, (AoT Boros Reckoner swing, then Lightning Strike Boros Reckoner anyone?)
5) Wear // Tear doesn't deal any damage, MODO black doesn't have enough Whips to make it a worth while spell - if you want some non-aggressive at least use Pithing Needle
6) It sounds like Big Boros is the right choice for your meta with heaps of White (GW just cry when they see a dragon)

@Wipe Out

The MODO meta game (during my timezone) is filled with Midrange and control,
I do have times where I feel I'll do better with Big Boros however I opt for PyroWhite because PyroWhite's play style is more enjoyable for me, you should pick the deck which is more enjoyable for you.

Both decks have an equal amount of strengths and weaknesses so saying one is better then another is wrong.
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Postby Zooligan » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:54 am

Good point on BTE targets, Zealot might be better vs Soldoer of the Pantheon and Fiendslayer Paladin as well. I'm with you on the land issue. I had been running 25 and did get screwed, but I think that was just randomness at work. White hasn't been a problem for me except one game where I drew 3 CttR and no white source.

So if I switch out BTE for Zealot, should I keep FFS in or go with Pyrewild or another pump effect to synergize with Zealot's first strike ability? Is batallion-based Falter > 2 card pump/first strike?

Wear//Tear is there not just for Whip but also for all the annoying enchantments G/W/x can play like Unflinching Courage, Gift of Orzhova, Boon Satyr while it's still an enchantment, etc. Even when they're on a hexproof creature, the enchantment can still be targeted. That's what was killing me the last few weeks, pumped up cheap green creatures.

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Postby magicdownunder » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:18 am

Good point on BTE targets, Zealot might be better vs Soldoer of the Pantheon and Fiendslayer Paladin as well. I'm with you on the land issue. I had been running 25 and did get screwed, but I think that was just randomness at work. White hasn't been a problem for me except one game where I drew 3 CttR and no white source.

So if I switch out BTE for Zealot, should I keep FFS in or go with Pyrewild or another pump effect to synergize with Zealot's first strike ability? Is batallion-based Falter > 2 card pump/first strike?

Wear//Tear is there not just for Whip but also for all the annoying enchantments G/W/x can play like Unflinching Courage, Gift of Orzhova, Boon Satyr while it's still an enchantment, etc. Even when they're on a hexproof creature, the
enchantment can still be targeted. That's what was killing me the last few weeks, pumped up cheap green creatures.
FFS isn't great without BtE and Vault support, I'll up the land into 24 (perhaps another vault) run 1-2 Pyrewild (he breaks the mirrors) or you can go 2-3 Frostburn Weird.
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Postby Zooligan » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:54 am

Good point on BTE targets, Zealot might be better vs Soldoer of the Pantheon and Fiendslayer Paladin as well. I'm with you on the land issue. I had been running 25 and did get screwed, but I think that was just randomness at work. White hasn't been a problem for me except one game where I drew 3 CttR and no white source.

So if I switch out BTE for Zealot, should I keep FFS in or go with Pyrewild or another pump effect to synergize with Zealot's first strike ability? Is batallion-based Falter > 2 card pump/first strike?

Wear//Tear is there not just for Whip but also for all the annoying
enchantments G/W/x can play like Unflinching Courage, Gift of Orzhova, Boon Satyr while it's still an enchantment, etc. Even when they're on a hexproof creature, the enchantment can still be targeted. That's what was killing me the last few weeks, pumped up cheap green creatures.
FFS isn't great without BtE and Vault support, I'll up the land into 24 (perhaps another vault) run 1-2 Pyrewild (he breaks the mirrors) or you can go 2-3 Frostburn Weird.
No mirrors at my LGS, or very few anyway. I'm pretty much the only red player there on a regular basis. Weirds might be cool. Nice walls and good mana dumps when there's extra lands floating around.

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Postby Wipe Out » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:31 am

Big Boros rides again. Took it to Thurs Night Magic (16 people), went 4-0, 8-1 on games total all night. On to the details.

[deck]
Creatures: 24
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells: 9
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Lightning Strike

Ladies in Red: 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land: 25
13 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault

Sideboard: 15
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Shock
3 Skullcrack
2 Wear // Tear
3 Boros Charm
[/deck]

Round 1: Ivan playing Rakdos Aggro
Ivan's first night at an LGS for a more competitive event. B/R is definitely faster than us but he wasn't really packing much removal so getting a Reckoner or two down allowed me to outrace him game 1. Game 2, -4 Firedrinker Satyr +2 Mizzium Mortars +2 Shock. Played control, removed
what he dropped and came through with some Zealots and Phoenixes for the win.

Record: 1-0

Round 2: Joe playing Jund
Didn't know people were still trying to make Jund run. Game 1 I just ran up the curve and finished him off before much could happen. -4 Firedrinker Satyr +2 Mizzium Mortars +1Chained to the Rocks +1 Shock. Game 2, I'm chipping away at him, get him down to 11. He then drops 2 Deathrite Shamans and I can't draw removal for the life of me after using it up earlier on Polukranos (x2). He stabilizes his life, then gets a Reaper of the Wilds down that I can't get rid of. All that's keeping me in the game are Chandra and a couple Mutavaults. He plays Vraska, kills Chandra and then finishes me with Reaper and Shamans digging through my graveyard. -4 Rakdos Cackler +1 Shock +2 Assemble the Legion +1 Boros Charm. Game 3, keep the pressure on. He drops some Deathrite Shamans, I manage to get rid of one and at 5 mana I have 2 Stormbreath and an Assemble in my hand. I drop the Assemble
and my opponent breathes a sigh of relief that it wasn't a Dragon but it was the end for him. I dropped Dragons over successive turns but he removed them, however a Phoenix and Assemble he couldn't deal with.

Record: 2-1

Round 3: Alan playing U/B Aggro

Hadn't heard of this deck (sounds like it recently placed well in a high profile tournament?). Deck was full of things like Tormented Hero, Nightveil Specter, Rakdos Shred-Freak, Agent of Fates, Rakdos Cackler, Mogis Marauder and Xathrid Necromancer. In addition to some normal black removal, he leaned heavily on Rapid Hybridization as removal and as a combat trick. Game 1, it's an out and out race. I try to remove Shred-Freaks and threats as fast as possible. Things are pretty close and he drops a Xathrid Necromancer thinking he can lock up the board but I hit it with Chains, Mortar Nightveil Specter and let my phoenix air force finish him over 2 turns. -4 Firedrinker Satyr -1 Rakdos Cackler +2 Mizzium Mortars +1 Chained to the Rocks +2
Shock. Game 2, I keep a hand of 2 lightning bolts, a few land, Zealot, Stormbreath. I play control, sitting back and burning whatever threats he drops. He responds to almost all of these by using Rapid Hybridization. However, he doesn't have much more removal and Reckoners clog the ground game long enough for me to ride with a Dragon and Phoenixes to victory. As an aside, Alan is a terrible loser, please don't immediately say the exact words "My deck is really good and I should have won. I just didn't get the land I needed either game, but definitely this is the better deck." He didn't suffer from obvious mana screw, so either he needs to tweak his mana base or practice mulliganing and not be a pill. Alan can suck it, and Big Boros is a lot to suck on.

Round 4: Kirk playing Mono Black Devotion
MonoBlack is a match up I have worried about and have a hard time with. However, this time things went well. Game 1, just kept the pressure on with Cacklers, Satyrs, Zealots and Mutas. He has
some removal but I get to him before he can get anything too stabilizing down. -4 Reckoner, -4 Lightning Strike +3 Skullcrack +2 Assemble the Legion +1 Chained to the Rocks +2 Wear // Tear. Game 2, he removes my early threats after I do some damage and he slams down a Demon turn 4. I put it in Chains and get a little more damage in. Next turn he plays Underworld Connections and proceeds to draw. My turn I hit 5 land and put down Assemble the Legion. He goes, drops another Demon (which he probably just drew). I'm a little low on threats on the board but Assemble starts churning out tokens I can sac to Demons (he drops a third!) all day long while putting pressure on with mutas and phoenixes. As I drop a Stormbreath and think I have the game, he Devour Flesh on his 9/9 Demon but next turn I finish him. Even if he got a whip down I had wear // tear just waiting.

Record: 4-0

Assemble did great work for me. I know sometimes it gets blanked by Jace but against some of these decks especially if theyre relying on stalling or putting down big creatures without trample or flying, Assemble the Legion is such a threat. People seem to be wising up to CttR though, more and more anti-enchantment tech, ratchet bombs, etc. I am still a bit split on the sideboard. There are some cards like Warleader's Helix that I almost want to play there but rarely has it proved as versatile as something like Mortars and even though people are not huge fans of Skullcrack, sometimes it's the only thing keeping me in a game where B/x or U/W/x is stabilizing their life and it deals with the rogue Maze's End decks that can be a pain in the ass. This LGS has a lot of control even though I didn't hit U/W or Esper today. I think that our matchup there is still pretty good, especially first game. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them but for now I have my faith restored in Big B. Some thoughts:

1) How much mainboarded removal that is useless against control is too much? I have 3 Chains and 2 Mortars that
are dead cards against control but are amazing in so many other match ups, especially game 1.
2) Lightning Strike has been great for me. I ran Magma Jet for a long time but that extra damage can really come in handy and man, Nightveils are such a pain it is good to be able to kill them on sight.
3) B/W match up is still tricky for me. Obzedat is a house.
4) x3 Chandra mainboard? She is always something I'm glad to see in my hand and worst case she is a damage magnet because the other person cannot allow her to sit there long. However, using her 0 to draw another Chandra sucks.
5) Stormbreath. I love him, but should we side him out against strong black removal like we do with Reckoner? Is he worth having around if they're handing out doom blades?

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Postby Zooligan » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:49 pm

I like keeping Reckoner in the side until I'm in an aggro MU, and having more MD burn. Of course I'm not going 4-0, so maybe your way is better!

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Postby Wipe Out » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:01 pm

I like keeping Reckoner in the side until I'm in an aggro MU, and having more MD burn. Of course I'm not going 4-0, so maybe your way is better!
I go back and forth on that as well. What I have found is that obviously against any amount of black removal Reckoner is not very good and he isn't the strongest against U/W/x control. However, IMHO it is less detrimental to have a Reckoner in these matchups than to NOT have a Reckoner in almost any other creature based matchup. Especially if they're some sort of blitz-y aggro deck. Since we are going Big(ger) overall, I like having him there to slow down any fast aggro matchup or trade with a fatty while we get dragons/chandra online. It all depends on your meta, but he also has the small advantage of being able to take down Caryatid who can be a headache. Plus, part of the allure of Big Boros is that we get to
play a lot of the more fun cards in R/W, and very few things are more fun than vengeful minotaur wizards.

What do you use for MD burn? Sometimes I wish I had more burn, but usually that is game 1 vs. aggro/ramp and 9 removal spells plus 4 reckoner is enough to keep them under control and then side in more burn the next game. I also always want more burn against ramp decks so I can pop mana dorks early. I also struggle with what to do with Boros Charm. It is one of the reasons I went Boros but it only has been particularly helpful in a couple of contexts, like dealing with board wipes, keeping chandra alive, and doing 4 to the dome and perhaps more usefully, 4 damage to a planeswalker. I want Warleader's Helix to be a thing but I think I'm giving up on it. I like the life swing, especially in a mirror type match but it doesn't hit Dragon or Blood Baron and is not particularly cheap.

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Postby Zooligan » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:44 pm

Playsets of Boros Charm, Lightning Strike, Magma Jet. I love Boros Charm! 4 upstairs closes out a LOT of games.

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Postby magicdownunder » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:49 am

MOCS11 is now over (I'll be posting my LIVE videos soon so look forward to that)I'll be now switching to Big Boros to tackle new UW and MonoU more aggressively.

Here is my List:

[deck=MDU's Big Boros]Lands 24
12 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 19
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 StormBreath Dragon
1 Pyrewild Shaman

Instants 11
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock

Others 6
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Flame of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Last Breath
2 Young Pyromancer
[/deck]

I despise being Mana ****ed hence the 24 lands.
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Postby Pedros » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:32 am

I dont see how it is big boros lol :D It is almost the same deck as Walter White (except young pyromancers in sb)
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Postby magicdownunder » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:48 am

I dont see how it is big boros lol :D It is almost the same deck as Walter White (except young pyromancers in sb)
What would you call it then? Arise! Dragon and Phoenix, Arise!
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Postby Pedros » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:00 am

Boros midrange.

Why all of you give so many cool decks here ... You do it on purpose to teese me ;/

I noticed when playing Pyro that I sb out pyromancers a lot. And here you can sb dragons for 2 pyro to make consistent swap for matchups, when dragon is bad (I can see you, B & Bg devotion!)

What I dont understand is why here Last Breath is ok and in Pyro White it wasnt?
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Postby magicdownunder » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:22 am

Boros midrange.

Why all of you give so many cool decks here ... You do it on purpose to teese me ;/

I noticed when playing Pyro that I sb out pyromancers a lot. And here you can sb dragons for 2 pyro to make consistent swap for matchups, when dragon is bad (I can see you, B & Bg devotion!)

What I dont understand is why here Last Breath is ok and in Pyro White it wasnt?
Because I have a big scary dragon going roar here, while in pyrowhite I need 2-3 swings to make up the lost.
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Postby LaZerBurn » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:23 am

In PyroWhite the 4 life was a lot to make up but with Dragons it's not :)

MDU beat me to it while I was typing :)
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Postby magicdownunder » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:28 pm

I can't decide between 3 dragon and 2 chandras or 2 dragons and 3 chandras.
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Postby Lightning_Dolt » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:35 pm

I can't decide between 3 dragon and 2 chandras or 2 dragons and 3 chandras.
More dragons, less Chandras.


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