Dies to Removal

I think the 3 arc lightning should be searing blood. It's really good right now, especially when the idea is to race G1. I would also do -1 mountain +1 crag/plains/mana confluence.

Both suggestions are good. I thought about the land issue myself. Arc Lightning might not be needed maindeck since small dudes aggro isn't so popular right now. About Searing Blood...it's obviously good against Jeskai, but against Abzan it felt like a wasted slot. Sided it out in all my matches. It kills nothing on its own, but together with the creatures it can take down Courser and the Rhino, but that's a 2-for-1. So I'm not so fond of it, but please enlight me.

Went undefeated at Game Day today (glorified weekly with Top 8 ), deck ran great. Was even less happy with Deflecting Palm, will probably cut it for something more consistent. Arc Lightning has been pretty stinky too, I would much rather be casting a Crackling Doom.

I think you guys are insane running 9-10 mountains with CttR though. I'm at 12 and I still have games where I can't cast it. I swear people are just casting it without mountains or something if they think 9-10 is dandy.

Oh and Rabblemaster is still busted.

List Rhyno?

So last time I checked Brad Nelson was 11-2 with a version of this deck splashing black for Sorin, Butcher, Crackling Doom, and Murderous Cut. Possibly others but I've only seen what I saw.

The mardu variant may be real.

2 sligh in top 8, Nelson is 3rd seed. His deck looks pretty sick - Sorin is such a beating with tokens, cant wait to try it.

Butcher too. Curving Hordeling Outburst into Butcher lets you haste+lifelink in aggro matchups which is just nuts.

One of my friends built a mardu tokens deck. It was overall pretty shaky, but it had the interactions Brad seems to have recognized as powerful, and they were very difficult to beat.

Got more reps in and played against Jeskai 3 times and a mardu deck that seemed kind of similar to Brad Nelson's from GP LA.

The first two games against Jeskai were won easily enough, their manabase was a huge liability.

I lost games 2 and 3 against the mardu deck. Game 2 I threw very hard. In the first game he didn't do very much so I thought he might be on a controlling variant of mardu. I drew a second Swiftspear with five lands in play and slammed it plus stoke the flames, hoping to get him pretty dead before he could do very much. He bile blighted my swiftspears and followed up with a Stormbreath Dragon. Chained + Banishing Light + Lightning Strike never looked so awkward. I don't think I would have expected Bile Blight, but I should have held stoke; my entire life total was taken by that dragon. Game 3 I stumbled on mana and could not race Sarkhan. That guy is a huge problem for this deck.

I lost games 2 and 3 against the last Jeskai deck I played against as well. Turns out he was on the strasky variant and I didn't do enough thinking to realize it. I ended up bringing in Magma Sprays and not siding out many Searing Bloods because against the last two jeskai decks the cards were fine (those were playing rabblemaster). He ended up siding out all his gryffs and his ashcloud phoenix (because he saw Chandra game 1) so most of my two-point burn spells were pretty dead. So I ended up with some reasonably dead cards and few ways to efficiently handle a Sarkhan, which I lost to in both games. Sarkhan really is a bitch. Game 3 I think I pulled the trigger on Deflecting Palm too early and I could have scuplted the game around it to encourage him to use the lifelink mode on Jeskai Charm, which would have given me the 1 extra damage I ended up needing to win the game.

Overall I just realized how weak this deck is to Sarkhan once the waiting game begins against an opposing RWx variant. I have 2 Banishing Lights in the board, and I don't really think I want to go up to 3, so I'm wondering how else people have been beating the card. Here are some things I'll likely be trying:
- Boarding in 1x Erase against Jeskai because I've had my Banishing Light banished by theirs and I sometimes need that Sarkhan to go away.
- Actually finding some Hordeling Outbursts and using that card to destroy the waiting game since Jeskai doesn't really have cards that matchup well against it.
- Overall just being more aggressive to get the Jeskai player to low enough life total so that I can race Sarkhan with burn
- Possibly boarding my own Sarkhans, but I think the card is just worse in my deck and against theirs
- Putting more jeskai-hate cards in the board so I can board all my weak spells when need be

Fated Conflagration? Removes Siege Rhino as well, among other creatures. One instead of the third Banishing Light?

Conflagration is just....so bad. I wouldn't want it against Rhino, you don't gain any tempo/vca and they get a drain 3 trigger. Literally the only card I would want it for is Sarkhan, and drawing it whenever they don't have one seems really bad.

Will be trying out this SB:
[deck]
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Ride Down
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Evolving Wilds
2 Erase
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Banishing Light
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Hushwing Gryff
[/deck]

I will probably have to play something else instead of Brimaz's because they are a million dollars and I don't have any. Suggestions appreciated.

Board breakdown:
- Chandra: Good against X/1s and control (nice card for decks that could show up but are unlikely to)
- Ride Down: Good with Rabble and against big butts
- Deflecting Palm: Good when opponents have to turn the corner on you or they're giving beefy dudes lifelink
- Evolving Wilds: need more lands to support stormy, also more white sources for when Brimaz comes in (this could be a different land I picked kinda hastily)
- Erase: enchantment hate yay
- Brimaz: Good against all the variants of this deck
- Banishing Light: problems be gone
- Stormbreath: Fk you abzan
- Hushwing Gryff: double fk you abzan

Possible Brimaz replacements on my radar:
- 3rd Banishing Light
- Suspension Field
- Magma Spray (which I cut because aggro isn't around too much and they're not even guaranteed useful against Jeskai)
- Circle of Flame cuz why not auto-win against aggro
- Hordeling outburst cuz it's good against Jeskai

EDIT: It's worth noting I maindeck 3 hordeling outburst

Brainsick out of curiosity, how many matches have you played?

Not nearly enough. Probably around 20. Unfortunately my addiction to this game is mostly fed vicariously through forums and articles when school is in session.

This leads to my incessant posting because the next best thing to playing magic is thinking/talking about every chance I get. Apologies if I shit all over the thread.

I'm really just trying to get people to tell me if I'm right or wrong about things because I don't have the experience/time to find out for myself.

I know that feeling. What is you main deck btw (you probably posted it earlier)? I haven't the necessary experience with the deck myself, so I can't really help. I'm unsure about those Ride Down and Deflecting Palm myself, but I haven't really seen them in action either. Have you considered Reprisal/Pillar of Light/Glare of Heresy in their place? Not really the same use, but something I noticed when playing against Abzan Midrange was that they often just played Glare of Heresy to remove CttR or BL.

I know that feeling. What is you main deck btw (you probably posted it earlier)? I haven't the necessary experience with the deck myself, so I can't really help. I'm unsure about those Ride Down and Deflecting Palm myself, but I haven't really seen them in action either. Have you considered Reprisal/Pillar of Light/Glare of Heresy in their place? Not really the same use, but something I noticed when playing against Abzan Midrange was that they often just played Glare of Heresy to remove CttR or BL.

Decklist (+SB for easy reading):
[deck]
Dudes
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
1 Hushwing Gryff

Non-Dudes
4 Searing Blood
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Hordeling Outburst

Lands
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Evolving Wilds
11 Mountain
2 Plains

Sideboard
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Ride Down
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Evolving Wilds
2 Erase
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Banishing Light
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Hushwing Gryff
[/deck]

On the topic of Reprisal, Glare, etc.
I decided I didn't want to be too reactive, and that I would rather play cards like Stormbreath Dragon and Hushwing Gryff that matched up well and applied pressure.

I definitely like Deflecting Palm as a one-of, and I'm still testing Ride Down. Deflecting Palm is occasionally game-breaking, and there are matchups where I believe it is almost always at least fine. In the Jeskai matchup for example, Deflecting a large beater + Jeskai Charm for lifelink is gamebreaking. In other situations it lets you screw up math and give you enough time/damage to burn them out. You can usually sculpt the game around it having a very high impact, and one of two things will happen: they either don't think you play the card and play right into it, or they think you have the card and just get afraid to do anything. Both of these situations are very good. Having it as a one-of is just recognizing that the card has the potential to be totally dead or very bad.

If you don't play Rabblemaster, don't play Ride Down. I do play Rabblemaster and I don't see that changing anytime soon (sorry purp), and Ride Down plays well with the card. You can swing with a 1/1 which gives away zero information and take their fatty. You can also telegraph that you have the card when you don't and get free attacks with rabblemaster (especially if they've seen the card once).

Really, half the power of the one-ofs comes from the fact that once I've shown them to my opponent, I can begin to represent these cards when I don't have them, which is a very powerful option to have available. Against a Jeskai opponent I got him to stop attacking with his Sarkhan for a couple turns because he didn't want to turn on my Deflecting Palm (he didn't attack with it until a Sarkhan hit would put me in burn range). I rode a Knuckleblade down with a Rabblemaster token against a Temur deck and he respected me having RW up for the rest of the match. So as of now I'm happy with them, but Ride Down may get cut in the future since it's arguably more narrow than Palm.

Stop playing Ride Down and Palm..

Stop playing Ride Down and Palm..

Or don't, if you have fun doing it...

R/W burn shell, splashing black:

[deck]
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Hordeling Outburst

4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Banishing Light
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Lightning Strike
4 Crackling Doom
4 Stoke the Flames

Lands 22
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Nomad Outpost
6 Mountain
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Mana Confluence
1 Plains
1 Swamp
[/deck]

Red: 20
White: 11
Black: 11
Mountains for CttR: 11

Any recommendations for improving the mana base will be considered. I plan to test this a bit today.

Hordeling Outburst is in a strictly better spot than Goblin Rabblemaster right now. The format has tons of spot removal, but not a lot of sweepers, at least not in the main. Hordeling Outburst also triggers Prowess, so for this shell, it's just better in general. The only card I think is worth changing is the 2-of Banishing Light. It could just as easily be 2 Hushwing Gryff in the main, or 2 Suspension Field. Not sure what would be best in the current format, but I do know that I like having a bajillion cards to trigger prowess. Raise the Alarm is alright, but it's at it's best against small creature aggro decks which are not too prevalent.

Making sideboards is always my weakest aspect in magic:
[deck]
4 Hushwing Gryff
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Despise
2 Thoughtseize
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Erase
[/deck]

Definitely interested as to how your deck is testing jasper. I've been meaning to run something almost identical for a while. Keep us updated!

I like maindeck Ashcloud Phoenix and that would let you move the Banishing Lights to the side.

Found this list that Christian Calcano played at GPLA and did pretty well with.

Thought it was interesting.

[deck]
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Suspension Field
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Banishing Light

4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Wind-Scarred Crag
1 Temple of Enlightenment
12 Mountain
2 Plains

SB:
3 End Hostilities
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Fated Conflagration
2 Chandra Pyromaster
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Banishing Light
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
[/deck]

Wonder what the blue/white temple is for? An extra scry? Can't be because he loves cipt lands so much...

with a slegdehammer build like that with a higher curve i wouldn't be surprise if its just an extra white source with scry.

edit: you could also use it to mess with your opponent so they think your running jeskai.

It's for the extra scry and white source, for the same reason we ran silence last season even when not playing toil.

Never did do much testing on that RWb build I posted above. Anyone else try it out?

I'm liking Crackling Doom more and more from reading about it and seeing it played in other decks.

Took Mardu Burn to a 6-3 finish (39th place, 240 players) at the MOCS today

[deck]
Lands 24
4 Nomad Outpost
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Caves of Kolios
4 Bloodstained Mire
6 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Temple of Triumph

Creatures & Hordes 17
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Butcher of the Horde
2 Hordeling Outburst

Burn 11
3 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames

Planeswalkers 2
2 Sarkhan, Dragonspeaker

Other 6
4 Crackling Doom
2 Chained to the Rocks

Sideboard 15
2 Erase
2 Hushwing Gryff
2 Scouring Sands
1 Murderous Cut
4 Searing Blood
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
[/deck]

It’s a pretty straightforward Burn Deck that splashes Black for Cackling Doom and Butcher. Compared to the RW variant, you get a little more game against the midrange decks (where the lifeloss is rather irrelevant) and you are a little weaker against Boss Sligh (of which I faced none in the MOCS).
I’m not 100% sure about the maindeck. Sideboard is OK (especially Searing Blood and Eidolon have been very good), but I guess there should be a pair of Sorins in there to replace Butcher in the matchups where your opponent boards in a ton of spot removal.

Some thoughts on possible directions in which to take this deck

(1) Drop Swiftspear for 1 Jet, 2 Outburst & 1 Butcher
(2) Keep Swiftspear, add 3 Defiant strike, possibly reducing 1 land and the 2 Hordeling Outburst
(3) Switch around the numbers of Hordeling Outburst + Goblin Rabblemaster

Thoughts / Suggestions welcome as always!

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=75986
Basically burn

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=75990
basically burn

First list is not basically burn, it's a stock mardu midrange lol.

Titan's strength a good card yey or nay?
I've won all 2 games I've drawn my one-of
It's really too cute to pass up on a way-seeker

in a world I want another ETBtapped land, do I use u/r temple or r/b temple?

I think a one of is fine. You could play a 1 of chandra, arc lightning, 4th searing blood, ashcloud phoenix etc.... I don't know why you would want ETB lands?

[deck]
Dudes (12)
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Monastery Swiftspear

Dudelords (3)
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Instant-speed kill (17)
1 Titan's Strength
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Searing Blood
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet

Slow Kill (4)
4 Chained to the Rocks

Manas (24)
4 Wind-Scarred Crag
12 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge

Sideboard
3 Glare of Heresy
1 Evolving Wilds
2 End Hostilities
2 Banishing Light
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Deflecting Palm
[/deck]

Here's where I'm at.
I want another elspeth maybe. I want another end hostilities maybe. First cut is deflecting palm but when I side it in and draw it, it is basically going to be a warleader's helix which fits with the controlsideboard.
Arc Lightning doesn't 2for1 enough decks to play a slow expensive spell that doesn't do good damage.
Thinking of playing phoenix instead of swiftspear. 24 lands supports it and swiftspear, though I can't argue does work, feels suboptimal. Although I only have been testing against the greengauntlet decks and the uwheroic and the newer mardu decks. Maybe swiftspear is good against the tier2 decks.
Still too many questions to answer.
Also I'm off gryph. I don't need it.

You pray not running into UB control with 8 dead cards in your MD...

Yeah this deck is terrible vs UB and UW control.... Ive tested it a bunch in my group, it's not even remotley close. I'd say 65/35 vs UB in UB favor, and 70/30 vs UW in UW favor

admittedly I only tested against ub control postboard but it seemed 4-6 in control's favor which I thought was fine.
I'm gonna revisit those matchups

[deck]
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Hordeling Outburst

2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

11 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Wind-Scarred Crag

3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames
1 Titan's Strength

Sideboard
2 Banishing Light
3 Wingmate Roc
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 End Hostilities
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Evolving Wilds[/deck]

I took an incredibly stock list like this and went 5-2-1 money at the scg 5k iq this weekend. I played pretty poorly.
Wingmate Roc put in some A+ work, though.

I played this on FNM to a 5-0 record.

[deck]
Creatures 15
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Seeker of the Way
1 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge

Planeswalker 2
2 Sarkhan the Dragonspeaker

Spells 20
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames

Land 23
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Mana Confluence
2 Plains
11 Mountain

Sideboard 15
2 Magma Spray
2 Circle of Flame
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Erase
2 Glare of Heresy
1 Fated Conflagration
1 Stormbreath Dragon
[/deck]

9/10, would jam again.

Did the magic 6 damage ourburst happen?

Sure did
also won by double pumping the team