Dies to Removal

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Hello, which salvation mods do we have today ?

Users browsing this forum: Blackhound, Thrillho and 3 guests

Hello, which salvation mods do we have today ?

That would be me.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthre ... ost9471208

I'm going to go ahead and jump here too, even if it's a pretty hostile environment I assume it's worth adressing a few things that i couldn't address before because well, I had absolutely no power over the website.

Curse bought MTGSalvation a week or two ago,
before that the deal was only in talks and a lot of the stuff you guys heard is pretty wrong. I'll mostly talk about the Gutter situation because hey, I assume that's what you're interested in.

The whole "Gutter" discussion started from a discussion I had with some people from the team in august or september, I don't remember exactly, I kind of went over the forums and saw the Gutter. From the outside, I'm sorry, but the Gutter is a pretty bad forum, and I think I said something along the lines of "yeah, it would probably be better to close it". It was in the middle of a very informal conversation and at this stage we were still pretty far away from any acquisition.

The problem is how it got "leaked" to the Gutter community and blown out of proportion, it somehow turned into "OMG CLOSE EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW" and there was a lot of confusion on both sides, for the record I don't necessarily agree with how it was handled (the mass ban waves) but you also have
to realize that the Salve team was a in tricky spot where they couldn't really say anything, and where I couldn't really tell them how to do their job either since it wasn't my place. I did jump on Reddit to clear up a few things with one of you guys (I don't have the name) and try to get a few bans cleared up but that was pretty much the max I could do.

I don't really "care" about the Gutter itself because it's not my place to cut parts of the community as soon as we jump in, especially the parts I don't fully understand. I'll be around to answer questions, I don't expect you guys to be nice but if you do care about the community now is probably the perfect time to empty your bag and see what we can do around this.

Users browsing this forum: Blackhound, Thrillho and 3 guests

Hello, which salvation mods do we have today ?

That would be me.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthre ... ost9471208

I'm going to go ahead and jump here too, even if it's a pretty hostile environment I assume it's worth adressing a few things that i couldn't address before because well, I had absolutely no power over the website.

Curse bought MTGSalvation a week or two ago,
before that the deal was only in talks and a lot of the stuff you guys heard is pretty wrong. I'll mostly talk about the Gutter situation because hey, I assume that's what you're interested in.

The whole "Gutter" discussion started from a discussion I had with some people from the team in august or september, I don't remember exactly, I kind of went over the forums and saw the Gutter. From the outside, I'm sorry, but the Gutter is a pretty bad forum, and I think I said something along the lines of "yeah, it would probably be better to close it". It was in the middle of a very informal conversation and at this stage we were still pretty far away from any acquisition.

The problem is how it got "leaked" to the Gutter community and blown out of proportion, it somehow turned into "OMG CLOSE EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW" and there was a lot of confusion on both sides, for the record I don't necessarily agree with how it was handled (the mass ban waves) but you also have
to realize that the Salve team was a in tricky spot where they couldn't really say anything, and where I couldn't really tell them how to do their job either since it wasn't my place. I did jump on Reddit to clear up a few things with one of you guys (I don't have the name) and try to get a few bans cleared up but that was pretty much the max I could do.

I don't really "care" about the Gutter itself because it's not my place to cut parts of the community as soon as we jump in, especially the parts I don't fully understand. I'll be around to answer questions, I don't expect you guys to be nice but if you do care about the community now is probably the perfect time to empty your bag and see what we can do around this.

Hello Boubouille
I don't have a repartee with you and while you may not expect "nice," I personally have no reason not to be nice to you.

So to begin, here are some preliminary questions:
1. You, like so many iridium, have brought up the "ban spree" that you can't tell them what to do because it "isn't your place." Now it is effectively your place. How are these bans being handled? I hope you can see it as a tricky situation on both sides (duplicitous nature of discussions staff-side, baiting users from the Gutter towards banning, holding fragile information that cannot be commented on but is completely intertwined in what was then an ongoing discussion about the Gutter). One of your fellow upper staff has publicly stated
it was a travesty, but has done nothing to address it aside from offering verbal confirmation of what was routinely known. You are now in the driver's seat. What are you going to do?

2. We've been asking for months if we can keep a piece of our "history" and receive SQL logs of the Gutter. We were promised these by the previous (and mostly still current) staff. We were assured once back-end access was given that we would have them. Where are they? When will we get them? If we will not get them, why not?

3. Why did it take you so long to come forward about the purchase? And why leave discussions of it in such -- pardon my rudeness -- under-qualified caretakers?

we want the whole truth. not just the gutter. least i do.

if you improve the site i'm fine with that personally, but remember now that any fuck ups your staff, which now include the iridium, will look poorly on you.

Boubouille, en ce qui me concerne, toute mon hostilité est dirigée a tous les membres corrompus de l'ancienne administration du site, qui n'ont eu cesse de nous harrasser et nous
emmerder pendant plus de 6 mois, et ce jusqu'a ce que l'on soit complétement évincés du site. Si comme je l'assume tu n'as rien eu a voir avec cette affaire, tu es le bienvenu ici.

( N_S )/Col. Khaddafi

Hello Boubouille
I don't have a repartee with you and while you may not expect "nice," I personally have no reason not to be nice to you.

So to begin, here are some preliminary questions:
1. You, like so many iridium, have
brought up the "ban spree" that you can't tell them what to do because it "isn't your place." Now it is effectively your place. How are these bans being handled? I hope you can see it as a tricky situation on both sides (duplicitous nature of discussions staff-side, baiting users from the Gutter towards banning, holding fragile information that cannot be commented on but is completely intertwined in what was then an ongoing discussion about the Gutter). One of your fellow upper staff has publicly stated it was a travesty, but has done nothing to address it aside from offering verbal confirmation of what was routinely known. You are now in the driver's seat. What are you going to do?

2. We've been asking for months if we can keep a piece of our "history" and receive SQL logs of the Gutter. We were promised these by the previous (and mostly still current) staff. We were assured once back-end access was given that we would have them. Where are they? When will we get them? If
we will not get them, why not?

3. Why did it take you so long to come forward about the purchase? And why leave discussions of it in such -- pardon my rudeness -- under-qualified caretakers?

we want the whole truth. not just the gutter. least i do.

if you improve the site i'm fine with that personally, but remember now that any fuck ups your staff, which now include the iridium, will look poorly on you.

I forget to brush my teeth way too often. If you have any specific question, shoot, if we're just conspiracy theorizing, I'm not sure how much I can help.

Boubouille,
en ce qui me concerne, toute mon hostilité est dirigée a tous les membres corrompus de l'ancienne administration du site, qui n'ont eu cesse de nous harrasser et nous emmerder pendant plus de 6 mois, et ce jusqu'a ce que l'on soit complétement évincés du site. Si comme je l'assume tu n'as rien eu a voir avec cette affaire, tu es le bienvenu ici.

( N_S )/Col. Khaddafi

Je pense sincerement que beaucoup de choses ont été exagérées, et de ce que je sais la team a pris pas mal de menaces qui ont pas forcément aidé a calmer les choses. Si t'as des problèmes précis en tête, je prends, c'est exactement pour ca que je viens chercher les 2 cotés de l'histoire.

Hello Boubouille
I don't have a repartee with you and while you may not
expect "nice," I personally have no reason not to be nice to you.

So to begin, here are some preliminary questions:
1. You, like so many iridium, have brought up the "ban spree" that you can't tell them what to do because it "isn't your place." Now it is effectively your place. How are these bans being handled? I hope you can see it as a tricky situation on both sides (duplicitous nature of discussions staff-side, baiting users from the Gutter towards banning, holding fragile information that cannot be commented on but is completely intertwined in what was then an ongoing discussion about the Gutter). One of your fellow upper staff has publicly stated it was a travesty, but has done nothing to address it aside from offering verbal confirmation of what was routinely known. You are now in the driver's seat. What are you going to do?

2. We've been asking for months if we can keep a piece of our "history" and receive SQL logs of the Gutter. We were promised
these by the previous (and mostly still current) staff. We were assured once back-end access was given that we would have them. Where are they? When will we get them? If we will not get them, why not?

3. Why did it take you so long to come forward about the purchase? And why leave discussions of it in such -- pardon my rudeness -- under-qualified caretakers?

1. Going to figure out who did what for now. The situation wasn't handled perfectly on the staff side, but I also saw pretty nasty things coming from the other sides, including personal threats and stuff like that. Getting both sides of the story is the only reason why I'm here, so as I said, work with me.

2. I'll be honest, this is doubtful, mostly because from a legal standpoint I would probably need written consent from anyone who ever posted on the Gutter. Unless you have something very specific in mind, I don't see how we can just give you guys a SQL dump without breaching a crapton of privacy policies.

3. The
purchase happened in December. Before that, it was just negotiations and people hearing about it, the discussion has been going on for months (like, 6 months+) but for some reason one day someone decided to create a big mess out of it. When it happened, we really didn't have any final decision on the table and it was just not my place to intervene in a community where I have no legitimate power, we both know that having a Curse person jump in to tell everyone that "everything will be fine" wouldn't necessarily have made things better. Most importantly, it would have caused a swarm of questions that I couldn't possibly answer since, well, nothing was done yet (and it was far from being sure back then).

---------------------------------------

As for the unrightly banned part, I'll figure out with the team how to handle this and I'll probably have a list of people who want to appeal that I will just look into. Don't take it as a promise that everybody will be a happy unbanned puppy, as I
said, I've seen a bunch of bad things that I need to clarify before I make decisions. It was just extremely hard to investigate without any official channel.

Je pense sincerement que beaucoup de choses ont été exagérées, et de ce que je sais la team a pris pas mal de menaces qui ont pas forcément aidé a calmer les choses. Si t'as des problèmes précis en tête, je prends, c'est exactement pour ca que je viens chercher les 2 cotés de l'histoire.

2. I'll be honest, this is doubtful, mostly because from a legal standpoint I would probably need written consent from anyone who ever posted on the Gutter. Unless you have something very specific in mind, I don't see how we can just give you guys a SQL dump without breaching a crapton of privacy policies.

Je pense sincerement que beaucoup de choses ont été exagérées, et de ce que je sais la team a pris pas mal de menaces qui ont pas forcément aidé a calmer les choses. Si t'as des problèmes précis en tête, je prends, c'est exactement pour ca que je viens chercher les 2 cotés de l'histoire.

Franchement? Tout est dû à la paranoia de certains membres (notamment rianalnn) puisque personne a été menacé par des membres de ce site. S'il y a des accusations de menaces, c'est à ceux qui accusent de faire preuve de ces menaces, pas à nous de prouver que l'on a menacé
personne. L'onus de la preuve est toujours du côté de ceux qui accusent.

Aussi, je suis en train de compiler l'histoire des évictions (qui est purement amusante et phénoménale) donc tu pourras lire tous les détails et voter pour la suspension/éviction plus créative ici même

2. I'll be honest, this is doubtful, mostly because from a legal standpoint I would probably need written consent from anyone who ever posted on the Gutter. Unless you have something very specific in mind, I don't see how we can just give you guys a SQL dump without breaching a crapton of privacy policies.

Then I can only assume the Zombie Gutter will not be
closed and that we will be able to keep our history on your servers?

I want to be unbanned because I did not evade with a gimmick account, provided a logical defense of why I wouldn't evade with a gimmick, and was kept banned for not evading with a gimmick, which from what I hear now is effectively no longer a ban worthy offense.

I'm also Yanni on MTGS, and I was extremely
established in Clans with House Dimir and Mafia. I also did a lot of work in Modern relating to Twin.

also: legally why do you need written consent to give us the SQL dumps..?

Je pense sincerement que beaucoup de choses ont été exagérées, et de ce que je sais la team a pris pas mal de menaces qui ont pas forcément aidé a calmer les choses. Si t'as des problèmes précis en tête, je prends, c'est exactement pour ca que je viens chercher les 2 cotés de l'histoire.

Franchement? Tout est dû à la paranoia de certains membres (notamment rianalnn) puisque personne a été menacé
par des membres de ce site. S'il y a des accusations de menaces, c'est à ceux qui accusent de faire preuve de ces menaces, pas à nous de prouver que l'on a menacé personne. L'onus de la preuve est toujours du côté de ceux qui accusent.

Aussi, je suis en train de compiler l'histoire des évictions (qui est purement amusante et phénoménale) donc tu pourras lire tous les détails et voter pour la suspension/éviction plus créative ici même

2. I'll be honest, this is doubtful, mostly because from a legal standpoint I would probably need written consent from anyone who ever posted on the Gutter. Unless you have something very specific in mind, I don't see how we can just give you guys a SQL dump without breaching a crapton of privacy
policies.

Then I can only assume the Zombie Gutter will not be closed and that we will be able to keep our history on your servers?

1. Il y'a eu des menaces de doxing et pas mal d'autres conneries du genre. Des menaces d'envoyer plein d'informations confidentielles a d'autres sites pour créer un gros drama (dans ce cas précis, le mec a quand meme menacé d'envoyer toutes les infos a MMO-Champion sans savoir que le site appartient a Curse, ce qui me fait largement sourire en ce qui concerne ses sources)

2. The Gutter will stay on the servers, we don't delete stuff.

3) SQL Dump is incredibly tricky because it contains personal info, user posts, and everything. As a community manager it's a move I would basically never authorize out of respect for my members, if it was another entity asking for it and if you learned that I gave it away you would probably kill me. If you
want very specific things, I'll see if we can get something done, but I'm not going to lie to you it's unlikely.

First step is mostly give me a list of usernames that needs their ban investigated and I'll look into it.

Blackhound: I mostly said that the team got threatened left and right as far as I know. I'm still not sure if it's by people posting here, etc, I'm really just clearing out the way, I'm really not kidding when I say that the sale is recent. But yeah, I saw pretty sketchy threats of doxing, I saw very sketchy rumors about Curse being thrown left and right saying that we're going to fire everyone, etc... Also had someone threaten to release tons of extremely compromising and confidential information about the whole thing and send it to ... MMO-Champion because apparently they would "love" a story like this. The guy pretended to have
awesome sources within Curse and didn't even know that MMO-Champion is something I run.

I'm mostly here to figure out what's happening, really, having a bunch of pissed users on their own forums doesn't really make sense and we can probably fix it, we'll just have to take it one step at a time and see what we can do.

What happens at three strikes

I'm the one who said that I had sources inside Curse, and I still do. I did not, however, mention anything about MMO-Champion, because I am aware Curse owns MMOC. There are other sources who would have loved the story, though, that I write for. In fact, I told two of them to walkaway because I wasn't going to cause more drama over this unless it was warranted.

Strike 1.

As I promised
Rascals, the information N_S provided will remain safe in my inbox and will not see the light of day on these forums, provided the staff remains honest and true to the userbase. Don't **** with us on this one, because this does affect us. And believe me, there is NOTHING a company like Curse wants to see less than a bunch of pissed-off forumgoers running to the blogs and presses to bitch about this. Blogs such as MMO-Champion would love a story like this, and I don't want to see that happen.

If it comes down to it, I will provide a link to my story if and when I write it up.

• You're talking to someone random at Curse who's bullshiting you, and honestly I don't see how you could have gotten something that wrong from someone on
  our side. We really didn't have a lot of people involved in the deal because of how uncertain it was.
• You don't have anything and you're just trying to grab attention.

@Yanni: This is part of a bigger post, and a general trend from Fahey threatening to release random stuff and in general misleading people with false information.

@Col. Khaddafi: Blaming Galspanic is useless. He tried to get your dumps, but he also had no control over this. He sent something like 4 or 5 mails to get them, he's absolutely not the one to blame about this.

The Zombie Gutter is still on standby until we figure out what's going on. It won't be deleted or anything, and if it's archived it won't be in public because of the nature of it's content.

It wouldn't be dangerous to delete the Gutter, we just don't delete shit for accountability reason. Best you'll have is a soft delete but it will still be in the DB. Scraping the forum would
get you a lot less data than a SQL dump, you would need all the posts, users, IPs, edit history, etc... It most likely includes multiple tables and a lot of side information. As I said, unless there's an extremely good reason to do it it's not something I will agree to. I'd rather fix the problem than just give up on it for now.

I'm not really here to debate specifics, mostly to protect people involved. I had serious threats of doxing too, Fahey is a borderline case because he never really had specifics, he just randomly threatens every now and then. But as I said, it's more than one person and I'm still trying to figure out the rights or wrong.

As for your ban, it will take a little more time to investigate, we shutdown the search servers for now to secure it and I like to go through stuff myself to make my own opinion. ^^

1. Going to figure out who did what for now. The situation wasn't handled perfectly on the staff side, but I also saw pretty nasty things coming from the other sides, including personal threats and stuff like that. Getting both sides of the story is the only reason why I'm here, so as I said, work with me.

I'm going to make it extremely clear, I'm here to try to fix the problem if there is one. I'm not here to empower you by paying attention to random threats, right now there's two possibilities.

You're talking to someone random at Curse who's bullshiting you, and honestly I don't see how you could have gotten something that wrong from someone on our side. We really didn't have a lot of people involved in the deal because of
how uncertain it was.
You don't have anything and you're just trying to grab attention.


I'm not really here to debate whether or not your threats make sense, I just don't care. If you want to go forward with fixing the community, jump in, if you want to be a sad little grinch and just enjoy the trolling and hating, well, you'll probably have someone else to play with.

@Col. Khaddafi: Blaming Galspanic is useless. He tried to get your dumps, but he also had no control over this. He sent something like 4 or 5 mails to get them, he's absolutely not the one to blame about this.

The Zombie Gutter is still on standby until we figure out what's going on. It won't be deleted or anything, and if it's archived it won't be in public because of the nature of it's content.

It wouldn't be dangerous to delete the Gutter, we just don't delete shit for accountability reason. Best you'll have is a soft delete but it will still be in the DB. Scraping the forum would get you a lot less data than a SQL dump, you would need all the posts, users, IPs, edit history, etc... It most likely includes multiple tables and a lot of side
information. As I said, unless there's an extremely good reason to do it it's not something I will agree to. I'd rather fix the problem than just give up on it for now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGwQqxDWE2M

What happens at three strikes

Probably best not to attempt to find out.

Thanks for coming here to discuss stuff with us Boubouille.

Quoting this for awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGwQqxDWE2M

I'm not really here to debate specifics, mostly to protect people involved. I had serious threats of doxing too, Fahey is a borderline case because he never really had specifics, he just randomly threatens every now and then. But as I said, it's more than one person and I'm still trying to figure out the rights or wrong.

As for your ban, it will take a little more time to investigate, we shutdown the search servers for now to secure it and I like to go through stuff myself to make my own opinion. ^^

Strike 2.

Users browsing this forum: Blackhound, Thrillho and 3 guests

Hello, which salvation mods do we have today ?

That would be me.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthre ... ost9471208

I'm going to go ahead and jump here too, even if it's a pretty hostile environment I assume it's worth adressing a few things that i couldn't address before because well, I had absolutely no power over the website.

Curse bought MTGSalvation a week or two ago,
before that the deal was only in talks and a lot of the stuff you guys heard is pretty wrong. I'll mostly talk about the Gutter situation because hey, I assume that's what you're interested in.

The whole "Gutter" discussion started from a discussion I had with some people from the team in august or september, I don't remember exactly, I kind of went over the forums and saw the Gutter. From the outside, I'm sorry, but the Gutter is a pretty bad forum, and I think I said something along the lines of "yeah, it would probably be better to close it". It was in the middle of a very informal conversation and at this stage we were still pretty far away from any acquisition.

The problem is how it got "leaked" to the Gutter community and blown out of proportion, it somehow turned into "OMG CLOSE EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW" and there was a lot of confusion on both sides, for the record I don't necessarily agree with how it was handled (the mass ban waves) but you also have
to realize that the Salve team was a in tricky spot where they couldn't really say anything, and where I couldn't really tell them how to do their job either since it wasn't my place. I did jump on Reddit to clear up a few things with one of you guys (I don't have the name) and try to get a few bans cleared up but that was pretty much the max I could do.

I don't really "care" about the Gutter itself because it's not my place to cut parts of the community as soon as we jump in, especially the parts I don't fully understand. I'll be around to answer questions, I don't expect you guys to be nice but if you do care about the community now is probably the perfect time to empty your bag and see what we can do around this.

What happens at three strikes

Probably best not to attempt to find out.