Ragnarok Mafia (Scum Win) Tattered Banners and Bloody Flags

[Kazekirimaru]

@ Kaze

I mean that given how likely we are to mislynch on day 1 (no flips, no confirmed roles, etc.)

I don't mind taking longer to pressure people and get more information to work with before a lynch. Z's question sounded like he wanted to start building consensus for a real vote on TH for day 1.

The only scummy read I have on TH is the flippant disregard for the post asking him about the discrepancy between wanting more from me and then saying he didn't ask for more from me. Seemed pretty weird to blow it off like that, especially after Z found a 2nd post where he wanted me to post more.

So, what do you think is the best course of action for town to take Day 1?

[hamfactorial]

@ Z

Also, yes, scum may very well be lurking to avoid drawing attention to themselves. I don't suspect anyone as scum simply by activity level.

[hamfactorial]

@ Kaze

I mean that given how likely we are to mislynch on day 1 (no flips, no confirmed roles, etc.)

I don't mind taking longer to pressure people and get more information to work with before a lynch. Z's question sounded like he wanted to start building consensus for a real vote on TH for day 1.

The only scummy read I have on TH is the flippant disregard for the post asking him about the discrepancy between wanting more from me and then saying he didn't ask for more from me. Seemed pretty weird to blow it off like that, especially after Z found a 2nd post where he wanted me to post more.[/
quote]
So, what do you think is the best course of action for town to take Day 1?

Lynch someone showing the highest degree of scum alignment, then reevaluate relationships after the flip.

[Kazekirimaru]

@ Kaze

I mean that given how likely we are to mislynch on day 1 (no flips, no confirmed roles, etc.)

I don't mind taking longer to pressure people and get more information to work with before a lynch. Z's question sounded like he wanted to start building consensus for a real vote on TH for day 1.

The only scummy read I have on TH is the flippant disregard for the post asking him about the discrepancy between wanting more from me
and then saying he didn't ask for more from me. Seemed pretty weird to blow it off like that, especially after Z found a 2nd post where he wanted me to post more.

So, what do you think is the best course of action for town to take Day 1?

Lynch someone showing the highest degree of scum alignment, then reevaluate relationships after the flip.

Well, uhm...yeah...

But your former post suggests that we can't get good information Day 1.

So, why do you think that, and how does this affect your optimal Day 1 strategy?

[Kazekirimaru]

Can someone help me sort Pie? I can't get a hold on him.

[hamfactorial]

@ Kaze

I mean that given how likely we are to mislynch on day 1 (no flips, no confirmed roles, etc.)

I don't mind taking longer to pressure people and get more information to work with before a lynch. Z's question sounded like he wanted to start building consensus for a
real vote on TH for day 1.

The only scummy read I have on TH is the flippant disregard for the post asking him about the discrepancy between wanting more from me and then saying he didn't ask for more from me. Seemed pretty weird to blow it off like that, especially after Z found a 2nd post where he wanted me to post more.

So, what do you think is the best course of action for town to take Day 1?

Lynch someone showing the highest degree of scum alignment, then reevaluate relationships after the flip.

Well, uhm...yeah...

But your former post suggests that we can't get good information Day 1.

So, why do you think that, and how does this affect your optimal Day 1 strategy?

I didn't say we couldn't get good info, just that the information is as its worst so we shouldn't just lynch by lottery. By limiting my focus to posters with lots of backlog and interaction with others, I can use the flip to make better inferences about
those still alive.

[Kazekirimaru]

Gotcha. Thanks.

[imopen2]

@kaze: no, you being a dick isn't really relevant, but neither was Stardust's question to me about it. I was simply saying that I didn't think Z needed to read into it at all.

@pie: I never used OMGUS in any I my posts that I can remember. Cute Elmo pic tho

[imopen2]

Can someone help me sort Pie? I can't get a hold on him.

He is you before you started "adapting" to our playstyle.

He thinks stardust is town

He thinks Tubehunter is scum

His strategy is to lie to the town and then expect them to believe him once he busts out the large and colorful fonts. Apparently this is true for both his town and scum games, and we are dumb for not understanding/accepting this strategy.

That's about all I've got so far

[InflatablePie]

I'll go back and look later. I know someone mentioned it. my bad, then, if I misremembered.

[pedit] lying is a strong word...

[imopen2]

Misleads

[imopen2]

I'm pretty new to mafia but I am not a big fan of gambits that can't be proven to be town motivated. Voting without unvoting in order to get a reaction out of someone is an example of a gambit I approve of. Spouting opinions and then backpedaling on them when called out is an easy way to fence-sit and see what sticks.

[zemanjaski]

I want to know your preferred day 1 lynch ham.

[rezombad]

Can someone help me sort Pie? I can't get a hold on him.

Don't get distracted. Stardust is the lynch today.

I'm pretty new to mafia but I am not a big fan of gambits that can't be proven to be town motivated. Voting without unvoting in order to get a reaction out of someone is an example of a gambit I approve of. Spouting opinions and then backpedaling on them when called out is an easy way to fence-sit and see what sticks.

Don't discuss ongoing games.

[zemanjaski]

Can someone help me sort Pie? I can't get a hold on him.

Don't get distracted. Stardust is the lynch today.

Would you be comfortable giving a T/S list? Notes not required. I have suspicions of Stardust, but he's not my no. 1

[InflatablePie]

Spouting opinions and then backpedaling on them when called out is an easy way to fence-sit and see what sticks.

again. called scum on page 1 to find connections and gauge reactions. got reactions, gave actual reads later on. this is getting ridiculous.

which, since I never completely elaborated, I'm not actually sure you nor ham nor rcw are scum actually. you're giving me a tunnel-y town vibe. like I get your logic and everything I just think it's bad logic. anyway, I've gotten kinda townie vibes from rcw but that may only be because he has a townread on me so my view on him is biased? and I don't remember many of ham's posts.

[Kazekirimaru]

Can someone help me sort Pie? I can't get a hold on him.

He is you before you started "adapting" to our playstyle.

What a dick.

I'm pretty new to mafia but I am not a big fan of gambits that can't be proven to be town motivated. Voting without unvoting in order to get a reaction out of someone is an
example of a gambit I approve of. Spouting opinions and then backpedaling on them when called out is an easy way to fence-sit and see what sticks.

+ town points for the open fellow.

Though I disagree, it's a townie viewpoint to have.

I want to know your preferred day 1 lynch ham.

Me too!

Can someone help me sort Pie? I can't get a hold on him.

Don't get distracted. Stardust is the lynch today.

Interesting.

Would you be comfortable giving a T/S list? Notes not required. I have suspicions of Stardust, but he's not my no. 1

Who is your number one?

[zemanjaski]

You know my day 1 preferred lynch is Tubehunter, although that's conditional on his response and whatever narrative develops from that. That's the big one for me. Even if he comes up clean, ill have all new info to play with.

[zemanjaski]

^ that's new info from his response, no necessarily his lynch sorry. I won't push for a lunch if his next few posts are enough to quiet my concerns.

[imopen2]

Can someone help me sort Pie? I can't get a hold on him.

Don't get distracted. Stardust is the lynch today.

I'm pretty new to mafia but I am not a big fan of gambits that can't be proven to be town motivated. Voting without unvoting in order to get a reaction out of someone is an example of a gambit I approve of. Spouting opinions and then backpedaling on them when called out is an easy way to fence-sit and see what sticks.

Don't discuss ongoing games.

I'm not discussing ongoing games. Wtf?

[Kazekirimaru]

Can someone help me sort Pie? I can't get a hold on him.

Don't get distracted. Stardust is the lynch today.

I'm pretty new to mafia but I am not a big fan of gambits that can't be proven to be town motivated. Voting without unvoting in order to get a reaction out of someone is an example of a gambit I approve of. Spouting opinions and then backpedaling on them when called out is an easy way
to fence-sit and see what sticks.

Don't discuss ongoing games.

I'm not discussing ongoing games. Wtf?

Stop this line of discussion, please.
/modhat

[imopen2]

K

[DroppinSuga]

I fail to see why Stardust is a better lynch than TubeHunter today?

[Yannaria]

also how you're so willing to accept his claim like pelase

Who is this directed at?

you

Ok, cool. In that case please quote where I
accept his claim. Because I don't remember doing it.

"he's not confirmed town but he's probably town" or something like that

If you go re-read that, I actually said that nobody has done or said enough to warrant a confirmed town nod from me. In no way does that address his claim.

I know this is a game of reading between the lines, but that's a huge stretch.

but you said you think he's town iirc

Recall again.

Actually, here's the quote:

Actually, guys, I have to admit I like what Pie is doing. Not enough to call him confirmed town - nobody's done/said enough for that yet - but he's certainly getting the ball rolling. The town mindset here is that he's poking at everybody to see who flinches in a way he and other town don't like. Right now he's scumhunting more than most. The scum mindset here is that he's throwing mud on everybody to see what sticks to get a wagon going. And oh look,
we have one on Stardust. Which brings me back to #2, above ^^

I said I liked what he was doing. Because it was getting people to post and that leads to information.

Then I said "nobody's done/said enough for that [call him confirmed town] yet"

the town mindset impllies you think he's town

I agree, that's how I read that post. Rcw, do you see no spectrum between "confirmed town" and scum? Usually people say "confirmed town" only on the strongest of town reads and "leaning town" or townie or something like that if they feel someone is likely town. The fact that you said no one is yet "confirmed town" did not mean to me that you thought no one was at all town. What exactly did you mean?

Yes, there's definitely a spectrum between confirmed town and scum.

I meant what I said. I meant nobody is confirmed town to me yet. That still holds, although Z just posted a pretty
good T/S list.

The thing is, what you and Yanni seem to fail to realize is that "not confirmed town" != "leaning town". It means anything from leaning town to scum.

So now you've both tunneled that. Scumteam?

what are you even saying
you implied yo uthink he's town by saying that he's working from a town mindset. that was my point, not your strawman which seems to accuse me of saying that someone who isn't confirmed town is leaning town like you are actually intentionally dense

[rezombad]

I fail to see why Stardust is a better lynch than TubeHunter today?

Because Stardust is actually scum. Vote him instead of trying to policy lynch tubehunter.

[DroppinSuga]

The only way I'm moving my vote off TubeHunter is if Stardust's claim doesn't sit well with me. I fail to see why you think he would be so obviously scummy if he was actually scum. It just doesn't make sense.

[Kazekirimaru]

The only way I'm moving my vote off TubeHunter is if Stardust's claim doesn't sit well with me. I fail to see why you think he would be so obviously scummy if he was actually scum. It just doesn't make sense.

Are you listening to yourself?

[zemanjaski]

@ rezombad.

I agree that Stardust started out looking really bad. Could you spell out your case against him for me to consider? Dot points are fine, I just want to know what you think I should look for.

Beyond that, why do you consider Tubehunter only a policy lynch? I think that while on the surface we're hounding him for a few minor misdemeanours (parroting, avoiding producing content, hand waving arguments, lying), the conflux of his behaviour, especially his response to any pressure seems very suspect.

If you don't mind:
- do you consider him suspect scum or just noob town?
- would you be willing to lynch him today (pending his next few posts) instead of stardust?

Thanks.

[DroppinSuga]

The only way I'm moving my vote off TubeHunter is if Stardust's claim doesn't sit well with me. I fail to see why you think he would be so obviously scummy if he was actually scum. It just doesn't make sense.

Are you listening to yourself?

Of course I'm not. I'm typing!

[zemanjaski]

^ can you expand on your issue with Suga's position Kaze? Just outline it briefly for clarity.

[Kazekirimaru]

There is no such thing as "too scummy to be scum."

[Yannaria]

There is no such thing as "too scummy to be scum."

[zemanjaski]

^ Stardust or Tubehunter then.

[Kazekirimaru]

^ Stardust or Tubehunter then.

Hm?

[rezombad]

@ rezombad.

I agree that Stardust started out looking really bad. Could you spell out your case against him for me to consider? Dot points are fine, I just want to know what you think I should look for.

Beyond that, why do you consider Tubehunter only a policy lynch? I think that while on the surface we're hounding him for a few minor misdemeanours (parroting, avoiding producing content, hand waving arguments, lying), the conflux of his behaviour, especially his response to any pressure seems very suspect.

If you don't mind:
- do you consider him suspect scum or just noob town?
- would you be willing to lynch him today (pending his next few posts) instead of stardust?

Thanks.

Stardust's "gambit" is wrong and he knows it.

Stardust stating that he is trying to make his posts sound town is a major scumslip.
"I tried to say things that believably could have come from town."
-I also think it's interesting that suga's vote for tube is based on meta and stardust thinks tube is town based on meta

Tubehunter is a policy lynch from suga.
"I'm making a meta vote here
unvote
vote tubehunter"

I don't see myself voting for tubehunter barring an even bigger scumslip.

[zemanjaski]

@ Rez, so you don't like Tube for scum at all? Not trying to be rude, but could you turn your mind to my assertions about his posting?

@ Kaze, you started strong now you're backing down a bit I think. Can you give me a lynch list?

[Kazekirimaru]

Tubehunter is a policy lynch from suga.

[Kazekirimaru]

@ Kaze, you started strong now you're backing down a bit I think. Can you give me a lynch list?

- Explain please.

- What is a lynch list? People I want to lynch?

[zemanjaski]

@ Kaze. I think you were much more aggressive with your lines of questions earlier. Now your responses feel shorter and more accepting. Maybe you've just got enough information now? I don't know, perhaps just a change of tone. I'd say that you've gone from leading the inquisition to helping it along, which isn't what I expected.

A "lynch list" was my poorly chosen way of asking you to, at this moment, detail your prime scum candidates, say your top 3 that you'd be willing to lynch.

Mine would be Tube > Stardust > Pie but it's still a WIP.

[Kazekirimaru]

Stardust = TubeHunter.

If I could lynch two people at once I would.