[Primer] PyroRed

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Elricity
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Postby Elricity » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:05 am

Great data, ill have a look through it. Great work on your results!

Can you tell me a bit more about Toil // Trouble? It seems ok, not amazing. What am I missing?
Its been champion on MODO by Owen Turtenwald (aka qazwsxedcrfvtgbyhnuj) as a source of CA and huge damage (its does deal upwards to 4+ damage against midrange and control decks) he run a light Black splash (4 shock lands).

I'll rather run Skullcrack (which is what he replaced) but its not 100% horrible.
The main value I saw is that as your second cheap 4 damage burn, it makes the chance of just
ignoring your opponents plays and going over him much more doable. In mono blue in particular.

Pedros, I'm assuming running the full 4 toil is the right call? It originally scared me drawing multiples against aggro.

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Postby magicdownunder » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:12 am

Actually you can play Pyro as a turn 2 against any deck that won't kill it in response. That excludes red aggro, Big Boros, Esper and MBC.

Yes, Chandra is certainly the better card, but you surely need some creatures to protect her with, and Pyro with his tokens is just ideal of the job.

Edit: @MDU: Of course, you side out pyros in matchups that run Jace, so maybe our approach is different.
Which is why I wrote most likely ;-)
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Postby magicdownunder » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:16 am

Here is my first LIVE recorded game running:

[deck=Zemanjaski's PyroWhite - MDU Tweaked]Lands 23
11 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 20
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Pyrewild Shaman

Instants 11
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock

Others 6
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Flame of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Fanatic of Mogis
1 StormBreath Dragon
1 Rod of Ruin[/deck]

Format: Standard Elimination (Event 6312837), because its live you can also see all my sideboarding choices (no commentary yet, going to wait for mocs11 first)

G1: Red FoM
G2: [url=http&#
58;//www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPp8Hvg2Sv0&feature=youtu.be]BG Rock[/url]
G3: Red AiR (normal)

(yay no MonoU for once...) Please note against Br and Nelson's Red AiR - I like to keep Rakdos Cackler on the draw because they act like great road blocks against a field of x/1s.

MOCS11-Rematch is on Sunday, I'm going to take the gamble and bet on a small MonoU and UW showing (mainly because Esper and Gx Devotion did so well) thus going with Hammer over the Dragon for the event.

EDIT: I spied the MOCS not sure if RW is the correct choice anymore might try Br

Not enough time to prepare another deck and practice, going to have to strengthen RW to push the MonoU MU to at least 55%

(Still got 5 more DEs to upload and whatever STD Elims I do along the way.)
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Postby Zooligan » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:44 pm

Live recording is where it's at! Keep doing them please.
Last edited by Zooligan on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Pedros » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:37 pm

Played mostly 2 mans and 8 mans 5-3-2-2 yesterday.

@Zeman and Toil/Trouble

Trouble deals a lot of damage in first few turns - mostly around 4 to 5. Also is good later in the game, as it helps you to refil hand.

Have good results with Walter White, however it seams pyromancer is getting worse right now - too much Gxx devotion and mono blue, where I dont like it so much (as I talked with MDU, we tend to dissagree here).
However Rg doesnt get any answers to master (it allows you to play gruul charm to kill flyers / retake domestification target / attack for lethal, however it is quite different plan).
Rb would be perfect, however I cant imagine myself playing 4 gates just to splash doom blade like effects.

Searched all the standard legal cards in red, white and artifacts and this is what I found:

Angelic Edict - 4W sorcery (BLEH) EXILE target creature or enchanment - get rids of thassa and master.

Divine
Vertict - 3W instant destroy target attacking or blocking creature - as MDU pointed out, most of the time master doesnt swing in or block (he always block when I swing couse most of the time they play arond burn, not around stuff like Divine Verdict)

Riot Control - 2W, fog + gain life for each creature in play. I noticed most of the time we are on quite high life total (around 12-14), and to kill us in turn they need to swing in with almost everything. Fog blanks their attack (+ we can kill some stuff with first strike from ash zealot or reckoner (and redirect posibly)). This card then allows us to swing back and prevent us to die next turn - as we gain a lot of life from creatures in play.

Congregate - 3W (BLEH) instant. Gain 2 life for each creature in play. Same as above, however in place of fog we gain more life (we also count our creatures). Same aplication as above.


I know every card above is really bad, however we still play Rod of Ruins, which it is hard to call good.
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Postby LaZerBurn » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:01 pm

These are fucking wonderful MDU! :) Thank you! :)
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Thanks to NerdBoyWonder for the awesome sig :)

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Postby notap123 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:22 pm

@Pedros Does the life gain from Last Breath swing the match to unfavorable? I know Beckon Apparition requires MoW to attack but it has potential if we are looking for cheaper spells.

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Postby Pedros » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:46 pm

@notap123

Dunno about Last Breath, sometimes it came to racing situation. However it kills everything in their deck (except of Thassa and Weird if they have mana up), maybe worth testing?

To be honest I play it as a 2 off in my Modern HateBears and it is awsome. And that deck is also agressive, bt getting rid of problematic creature was important, as we still can win in 2-3 turns with big creatures (dragon etc) or swarm of smaller ones (Phoenixes, tokens, zealots)

BR looks so good right now:

Blood scrivener
Tymaret
Exava

Doom Blade
Dreadbore
Ultimate Price
Boon of Erebos (sometmes better than Titan's Str)
Viper's Kiss (kills master, makes polukranos and colosus non monstruable)
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Postby F.I.A » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:19 pm

If you have access to white mana, I think Last Breath is a good bet as a tech against MoW. That 4 life gained is nothing when you can keep your pressure against them. Also hits Tidebinder Mage and Nightveil Specter, so it's not really a dead card.

Anyway, some comparison with old results
25 October > 15 November
Devo Black - 73% winrate (15 battles) > Devo Black - 69% winrate (64 battles)
Devo Red - 100% winrate (2 battles) > Devo Red - 53% winrate (32 battles)
Devo Blue - 25% winrate (4 battles) > Devo Blue - 36% winrate (28 battles)
Devo Green - 20% winrate (5 battles) > Devo Green - 48% winrate (33 battles)
Esper Control - 83% winrate (6 battles) > Esper Control - 79% winrate (24 battles)
AIR - 100% winrate (2 battles) > AIR - 100% winrate (10 battles)
WG - 50% winrate (2 battles) &
gt; WG - 60% winrate (5 battles)
UW Control - 75% winrate (4 battles) > UW Control - 60% winrate (10 battles)
(No record) > Big Boros - 62% winrate (13 battles)
Rogue - 66% winrate (6 battles) > Rogue - 72% winrate (57 battles)
While my winrate against control (Believe me, it's all variance) has dropped slightly, my matchups against Blue and Green have started to climb up. This might be due to me learning how to deal with them more.

Thoughts on cards
- [card]Titan's Strength[/card] - Have been using it for the week, and I'm gonna say I'm rather pleased with it. Yes, while it cannot compare to a burn, sometimes that cheap buff is all that you need to win the game. 3 is a good number for it. Kills a tapped out Jace without much trouble.
- Act of Treason - I have been finding myself siding this in against Big Boros or Devo Green (Or Gr ramp). Removing a blocker and
adding another attacker can just steal the game instantly. Traitorous Instinct is just a tad too expensive to worth it. Combos greatly with Shock and a neighboring Boros Reckoner (Steal it, attack with it, then shock it, redirect the damage to kill it and then find another target for that 2 damage. Much fun)
- Mutavault - It's a great card, but at times I find myself drawing a little too many of them to make use of them all at once. And in the worst scenario, without the two mountains to operate. Since I'm not running Firefist Striker, I think I will take one out. Actually consulted Sir Ham and decided to do just that.
- Ash Zealot - She has been performing great as always when used in conjunctions with removals.
- Pyrewild Shaman - Used to run this card, but then find out I don't really
have enough mana to recur it when I have mutavaults. Without making use of its ability, it'll just be a bad Rubblebelt Maaka. Also, unlike [card]Titan's Strength[/card], cannot be used on defense.
- Shock - Is the staple we need. Whether if it's an owl in the sky or the elf in the woods, I find myself needing that turn 1 response, so I'm putting all my Shocks in main.

[deck]19 Mountain
3 Mutavault

4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

2 Chandra, Best Card in Standard

4 Shock
3 Titan's Strength
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
1 Flames of the Firebrand

Sideboard
2 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
2 Act of Treason
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Rod of Ruin[/deck]
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Postby RaidaTheBlade » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:12 pm

These are my two potential lists. Gonna test the first before/maybe atm fnm today. As for Sunday's IQ, I don't know which to run... That depends on what y'all think might work better for the overall meta out there, and on how my testing goes...


[deck]
Creatures:
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Firefist Striker
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells:
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Shock
2 Mizzium Mortars

Planeswalkers:
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land:
20 Mountain (maybe -1shock, for 21... This number is something I wanna test though)
1 Mutavault

Sideboard:
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
3 Act of Treason
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Flames of The Firebrand
2 Burning Earth (these are here cause 3color midrange/control has been a prob at my lgs. Should I not bother for an IQ, and just have +1reck/+1rod?)
[/deck]


[deck]
Creatures:
4 Rakdos Cackler
4
Firedrinker Satyr
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Pyrewild Shaman

Spells:
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Shock
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Flames of The Firebrand (instead of a third mortar?)

Planeswalkers:
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land:
21 Mountain
1 Mutavault

Sideboard:
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
3 Act of Treason
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Flames of The Firebrand
1 Rod of Ruin (Yolo? :P)
2 Burning Earth (these are here cause 3color midrange/control has been a prob at my lgs. Should I not bother for an IQ, and just have +1reck/+1rod?)
[/deck]


Thoughts?
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Postby Helios » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:29 pm

I prefer Ash Zealot, personally. The presence of midrange increases the value of haste and fs. It seems like you can expect the IQ to somewhat reflect your meta, because if your store is competitive a lot of those folks will probably be playing in the IQ.

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Postby RaidaTheBlade » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:35 pm

I prefer Ash Zealot, personally. The presence of midrange increases the value of haste and fs. It seems like you can expect the IQ to somewhat reflect your meta, because if your store is competitive a lot of those folks will probably be playing in the IQ.
I can't really... The majority of people at the lgs are mildly competitive, but the iq is about 2.5 hours away from the store. So it's a long drive, and I don't think many of the people at this store will go...
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Postby windstrider » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:45 pm

Which one do you feel more comfortable playing?
Searing Seneschal of Salvation

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Cogito, ergo incendo.

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Postby Purp » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:50 pm

I can tell you Raida, a big majority of Atlanta's players will be there. Expect the top decks. Esper, UW, Mono U, Mono B, GR, Mono Red, White Weenies, Kibler GB
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yurp yurp

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Postby Helios » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:54 pm

I'll defer to MDU then, since he's been getting the most playtime in.
Which one do you feel more comfortable playing?
^^ This too.

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Postby RaidaTheBlade » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:59 pm

My biggest issue is I just don't know which deck is stronger that field...
I'm still trying to learn, and I don't get enough chances to test, so I don't know which of these decks is better for that sorta thing...

I'm probably a little more comfortable with the zealots, but it's not a huge difference... If I stayed with what was comfortable, I'd still be playing Mono-R Devotion :P


I guess looking at that list, esper/UW/monob aren't problems usually... Monored and white weenie is about the same amount of 'just keep burning'. GB I really don't have more then one of 2 games against, but it went fairly well for me....

Really, G/R and Mono-U are probably the stumbling blocks. In those cases, what works better? BTE/FFS for 'swarm' and falters, or zealot for haste/firststrike and the 1 pyrewild for the pump...

Though I am
tempted to go with that zealot list, cause I manage to fit 2 rods in it's sideboard if I drop the BE's... Which rod helps against the worst matchup of Mono-U, whereas BE helps against esper (which is already a good mu) and the rogue 3-colors (which I have no clue how many of those to expect... proly a bit of jund...)
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Postby Helios » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:34 pm

Not deck advice, but read Z's guide about preparing for big events + stop stressing over the decision. Go proverb: "If you aim for something, you are turning away from it."

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Postby RaidaTheBlade » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:57 pm

-sigh- yeah, I have a tendency to stress myself out too much.

Alright, I think my list is:

[deck]
Creatures:
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Firefist Striker
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells:
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
3 Shock
2 Mizzium Mortars

Planeswalkers:
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land:
21 Mountain
1 Mutavault

Sideboard:
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
3 Act of Treason
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Flames of The Firebrand
1 Burning Earth
[/deck]

It just seems like it will work the best.
It'd be nice to have a 4th shock, but I'd have to pull out a creature, and I dn't really know what I could spare...
Would also like to fit a rod or second be in the side, but i think this setup gives me the best spread.
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Postby DocLawless » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:19 pm

Not over-thinking it is an art form. I always get better results going with what I know over what the internet says. If you picked the list you have more faith in then you made the right decision.
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Postby LaZerBurn » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:53 pm

While you are there Raida get some more Vaults :) Have a great day, best of luck :)
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Postby Platypus » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:55 pm

Raida, the list looks looks fine to me. Sometimes you just have to go with something. I'm going to repeat what others have said: Don't overthink it. Think about it like this: If you spend at lot of effort trying to analyze an plan for everything beforehand it will feel a lot worse if it doesn't work than if you didn't spend so much time on it. Either way, you have a good experience to go forward with for the next time.

Although I'm not the best guy to give this advice because I tend to overthink everything.
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Postby FullofGravy » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:13 pm

currently 2-1 with 1x Dragon in the main. Lost to B/R when I drew more lands than spells both games. Including hitting Mountains with Chandra each time.

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Postby F.I.A » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:00 am

@Raida: Your latest list looks good enough. Since you don't have enough Mutavault, you will need a way to amass board presence, so Emmy is preferred over Ashley.

If you really want Rod of Ruin, consider cutting a BE and AoT for two. Personally, BE is more like a win-more card for me, so consider it a flex spot in your 75.
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Postby Helios » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:57 am

I second Rod over Burning Earth.

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Postby magicdownunder » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:35 am

For those who are running 04x Mutavaults, how does 2x Goblin Diplomat sound as an answer against MoW (I know the blue god can ruin your day, but beside that it seems decent)?

It isn't horrible against small aggro or Gr either (you can run cards into Ash and Boros Reckoner all day long).
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Took 2nd out of 28 at FNM

Postby montu » Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:00 am

I played PyroRed tonight at FNM and went 4-1 (won the first 8 out of 9 games to go 4-0, then lost the last 2 for a final 4-1)

Tweaks to the deck I made beforehand:

- Swapped in 2 Annihilating Fires instead of 2 Flames of the Firebrand
- Put in a Wrecking Ogre in place of a Mutavault. (My daughter plays WW, so I let her have 3 in her set.)
- In the SB, swapped in 2 Seismic Stomp for 2 Mizzium Mortars (I knew I'd see MoW)

Points of Interest:

- Seismic Stomp won the game for me against MoW.
- If I hadn't used Traitorous Instinct on my opponent's Mistcutter Hydra to win the turn before, the [card]
Wrecking Ogre[/card] on Phoenix would have crushed him next turn.
- Losing the last match sucked - the only 2 lands I saw game 1 were in my opening hand. Got flooded bad on the second and lost by half a turn.
- The Annihilating Fires were dead cards. They got boarded out every Game 2.

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Postby RaidaTheBlade » Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:32 am

Tried to post this multiple time tonight, but my phone hates me...

I read the rod of ruin instead of be and aot thing earlier, and Ive been consdiering it.
The third AoT is out regardless. THe decision is if it'll be 2 BE or 2 Rod.

Tonight I faced 2 naya midrange/controls and a maze's end. Those decks are decks where I'd love BE, whereas Rod is only used to stop Mono-u...

Is the extra oomph that rod gives us vs mono-u enough for it to win more games for me then the BE's?

I did ask a few people at the shop for opinions, and received a lot of differing ones. I do trust y'all more though ;P


Also, went 4-1 for first place! :D Pretty much set on my 60, though I still need to trade for 1 more mutavault if I can e.e My sideboard is mostly set except for earlier things...
Write-up is on it's way later tonight.
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Postby RaidaTheBlade » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:06 am

Just got back from FNM. Went 4-1 for first place!

[deck]
Creatures:
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Firefist Striker
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells:
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
3 Shock
2 Mizzium Mortars

Planeswalkers:
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land:
21 Mountain
1 Mutavault

Sideboard:
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
3 Act of Treason
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Flames of The Firebrand
1 Burning Earth
[/deck]

Round 1: VS Jackson with G/W
- Game 1, I had an aggro curve out really well, with a cackler, bte, ffs, yp, and phoenix. He only had 1 green mana source all game, so when he played his ooze, I could just jet it, (He wasn't really mana screwed though, just color was a bit off).
- Game 2, I sided out all my 1 drops, and went more defensive, and had my favorite play of the night.
I had 6 land (1 muta), a chandra at 6, a bte, a yp, and 2 elementals.
He had a smiter and a trostani, 11 life, and was tapped out. My hand was another chandra, and a magma jet. I plussed the chandra, then played the second chandra and plussed it. SO he was at 9 and both his blockers were faltered. I then turned muta on and hit him for 8, dropping him to one. He scooped after his draw.
1-0 (2-0)

Round 2: VS Justin with 'Boros' aggro (white weenie with boros charm… Aka that gp or open or whatever it was deck)
- Game 1, I had a shit ton of removal, and he flooded a bit.
- Game 2, I had a shit ton of removal, and he got a bit starved.
2-0 (2-0)

Round 3: VS Matthias with Maze's End (;-;)
- Game 1, he managed to get to 8 of the 10, with 2 maze's end on the board, so I was dead his next turn. He ran out of fog though, and I dropped him low enough to hit him with a strike.
- Game 2, he got a bit land screwed and only had 3 gates and 3 maze's ends. I had chandra out, so lots of card advantage, and used a skullcrack to let damage through, and then burn to finish it.
3-
0 (2-0)

Round 4: VS Nick with Naya Midrange/Control (Somebody else's deck he was testing for them)
- Game 1, I sorta curved, but he angered, and the stuff I held back wasn't enough.
- Game 2, I had to mully, and basically either had to keep a 1 land 6, with a shit ton of removal and mortars, or mully to 5, which was death. So I had to gamble on getting a second land so the removal mattered, but I didn't until it was too late.
3-1 (0-2)

Round 5: VS Josh with Naya Midrange/Control (His was a good bit different. No anger, and a bit less control in general, and a lot of planeswalkers)
- Game 1, I curved out and burned his stuff.
- Game 2, I burned his stuff and got incremental board advantage cause yp$.
4-1 (2-0)


Things went weird cause Jackson from game one got paired up vs Nick from game 4, in round 5. Jackson won cause Nick took really stupid hands, since he wasn't as familiar with the deck, since it was somebody else's.
So I got first off OMW%. No complaints here



I also learned that the store guy MUST have been rigging the system… :P
Seriously, G/W and Naya are not very good matchups for me, ME is kinda 50/50, and boros aggro is fairly good…
But the boros player is a guy I hate playing. He's kinda a dousche e.e
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Postby magicdownunder » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:29 am

Last Time
Fairly old set of videos, I no longer use Act of Treason but Ash Zealot does shine against Midrange decks.

[deck]PyroWhite 2nd Test[/deck]

Standard Tournament: Daily
Event 6267908 (3-1)

G1: Naya Control
G2: MonoRed Devotion
G3: RW Tokens
G4: MonoBlack Devotion

Warning only 5 sets of videos remaining, with wizards killing MODO we may not see any new ones in awhile.
Standard Tournament: Daily Event 6257891 (4-0) (1/5 of my remaining sets, all future videos until DEs get fixed will be Live Games. (Vocal songs will be used for the remaining DEs, BGMs for lives))

G1: Devo Big Boros
nG2: MonoBlack Aggro (Really fun song :D)
G3: Esper Control
G4: Split for the Win.

MODO STD Update: wizards are thinking about displaying all the decks which are in top4 for two random STD Elims each day.

@montu, I'm not sure how i feel about running Seismic Stomp against MonoU when they run 12 fliers.
Last edited by magicdownunder on Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Helios » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:34 am

Good work ya'll!

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Postby F.I.A » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:50 am

@Raida: If Monoblue Devotion is a thing in your meta, then you certainly need the Rod of Ruin. Most of the time, when I'm losing to that deck is with them going double or triple MoWs to form a horrid wave.

I'm not sure why you really need BE to begin with. No matter how greedy they are, they will still be playing some basic lands, so it will just score around 2 damages and so on.
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Postby Keftenk » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:41 am

Went 5-0 in the Swiss tonight; 3rd place in Top8 losing to Devotion to Red top deck (he was at 3 life, I was at 1) :(

[deck]
Creatures
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Pyrewild Shaman

Lands
12 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mutavault

Other Spells
3 Shock
1 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Act of Treason
3 Skullcrack
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Boros Charm
[/deck]

Match 1: 2-0 GW Aggro (I personally made this an
achievement of mine since I've been having a terrible time vs GW)
Match 2: 2-0 Mono U Devotion (Snooze...Mono U tends to be so easy for me /shrug)
Match 3: 2-0 GR Aggro
Match 4: 2-0 UW Control
Match 5: 2-1 BG Devotion (Act of Treason was an All-Star in this match up)

Top8 Match 1: 2-0 Esper Control
Top8 Match 2: 1-2 Devotion to Red (Simply put, I played the control match up but he Top decked better then me :( )

I didn't see Pyrewild Shaman once :(
I also only saw/see Act of Treason being an all star versus Mono B, Golgari, and/or UB Devotion. I tried using it against GW, but it's just not the same as throwing a 7/7 Desecration Demon at them, heh.
Last edited by Keftenk on Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby magicdownunder » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:02 am

AoT seem quite weak against Golgari midrange, are you referring to Bg Devotion? Also would you really take 4 Doomblades to a large events or is it just a FNM meta game thing.
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Postby Keftenk » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:13 am

Whoops, yup! I'll make the edit!

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Postby soebek » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:54 pm

Hello again everyone :)

I just thought I'd say I took the PyroWhite version to FNM last night and went undefeated. I used a slightly tweaked version of MDU's PyroWhite, which is of course in turn a tweaked version of zemanjaski's. Obviously my FNM is not a particularly high-skill meta, so take everything I say with a pinch of salt, but there are good players with top decks there so I figured any results might be useful to help form a bigger picture about the deck.

[deck=Zemanjaski's PyroWhite - MDU Tweaked, made worse by soebek]Lands 23
11 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 20
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Stormbreath Dragon

Instants 11
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock

Others 6
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the
Rocks
1 Flames of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Boros Charm
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Rod of Ruin[/deck]

The deck performed flawlessly. I'm sure I made mistakes, but it's so strong synergistically that I was able to play around them and make up for lost ground. I think the white splash for Chained to the Rocks is totally worthwhile, and I dropped the two Fanatic of Mogis in my sideboard for two Boros Charm - I just love the charm too much to not take it with me.

In the Swiss I played and beat Esper Control, Monoblack Devotion, some sort of Rw heroic aggro deck, Monoblack Devotion with a green splash, and Gr Devotion. I managed to avoid any MUD matchups. In the Top4 I played another Esper Control and the Bg Devotion deck again. People weren't sure what to expect with the deck, but even when they had a better idea as to what they
were facing (such as in the final, when I played the Bg Devotion deck again), there are just so many avenues that this deck can take it wasn't easy for them to predict. People didn't know whether they should be playing the beatdown or the control, because sometimes I could just nut draw and go the full RDW route and aggro them down in three or four turns, but others I'd last long into the game and actually end up having more reach than supposedly "bigger" decks, through burn and recurring [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card]. I can't imagine reducing the number of Chandra, Pyromaster, either - she's an absolute star whenever she hits the field. I only sided her out in the Gr Devotion matchup, because I figured she wouldn't last long against Nylea-enabled tramplers.

Finally, I'd been testing during the week with a singleton Pyrewild Shaman, and whilst I can understand its obvious strength, I was never delighted
to see it. Instead, I thought I'd try putting a Stormbreath Dragon in the mainboard, with another in the sideboard, and I was glad I did. Perhaps it was an error to do so, but I brought the second dragon in against the Esper Control and Gr Devotion lists, and they were brilliant. The only time the dragon didn't impact the game in an immediately meaningful way was when it was Thoughtseized from my opening hand, but in choosing the dragon my opponent didn't take an Ash Zealot who ended up doing 10 damage, so even then the mere threat of the dragon helped me win the game (and obviously a huge misplay by the Esper player). For now, I'm going to stick with it in my mainboard because I'm getting results with it so far.

Thanks for reading.

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Postby Pedros » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:10 pm

Ok to all. Why play 3 chandra? I understand it is good, imo the best planeswalker in standard, but having it as a 3 - of makes it wierd when we have 2 of them in hand.

Personally I love Pyrewind Shaman, as it enables a way to get rid of reaper of the wilds - card that is extremely hard to get rid of and can stoneblock our ground (+ scry is very good). Also I played a lot Bg devotion lately on Modo (5 yesterday out of ~20 matches) when it is very important.

I like dragon main and dragon side, as it is also really good vs mono blue (IMO), boros and RG (decks that we have hard time). My only question is: are 23 lands enough to play 2 of them?

@MDU

I saw young pyromancer, ash zealot and firefist striker in your list - how did you manage to squeaze all of them in!?
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Postby FullofGravy » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:17 pm

Ended up 3-1 last night.

Win vs RG Devotion
Loss vs BR Aggro
Win vs UR Devotion
Win vs BR Aggro

Won multiple games with the singleton Dragon by itself.

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Postby magicdownunder » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:22 pm

@soebek Thank for this post, the deck name made me chuckle - I'm really interested in how the Dragon performed for you, did 23 lands hinder you at all? I tried 2x dragons early last week and got killed by variance twice in a singleton event :cry: .

EDIT: Cheers Gravy, more data on 23 land singleton dragon is great :D.

@Pedros the list is in the spoiler tab titled LAST TIME on this page so just scroll up, its a meta game deck - I wouldn't take it to a large event.

In regards to Chandra, she is kinda like Jace - if you resolve her early (above 10 life, empty board state) they HAVE to deal with her (or they'll die in 3+ turn from either the CA or the ultimate).

I have no issues seeing her in multiples, though she is a horrible top-deck when your
not in a great position (but so is so many of the other cards in your deck).

EDIT2: Ok, I decided to run the dragon for mocs-rematch tomorrow :jam:
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Postby Pedros » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:34 pm

2 between mb and sb?

Dunno about chandra, will have to test it as a 3 off, later today.

Still I hard to say if BTE+ Striker is better than Zealots, Zealots enables to play more 1 offs that can matter.

Will try following list:

[deck=Zemanjaski's PyroWhite - MDU Tweaked, Made Worse by soebek, Varianced & Diluted by Pedros]
Lands 23
11 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 20
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Pyrewild Shaman

Instants 11
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock

Others 6
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Flames of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Fanatic of Mogis
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Rod of Ruin[/deck]

Trying to squeeze Last Breath to sb for mono U - however dragons makes
this matchup better Imo.

Potential sb card for bad matchups:
Titan's Strenght
Pyrewild Shaman
Last Breath
Act of Treason

Also 2 dragons or 1/1 dragon/hammer ??
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Postby soebek » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:38 pm

Ok to all. Why play 3 chandra? I understand it is good, imo the best planeswalker in standard, but having it as a 3 - of makes it wierd when we have 2 of them in hand.

Personally I love Pyrewind Shaman, as it enables a way to get rid of reaper of the wilds - card that is extremely hard to get rid of and can stoneblock our ground (+ scry is very good). Also I played a lot Bg devotion lately on Modo (5 yesterday out of ~20 matches) when it is very important.

I like dragon main and dragon side, as it is also really good vs mono blue (IMO), boros and RG (decks that we have hard time). My only question is: are 23 lands enough to play 2 of them?
I very rarely had more than one Chandra in my hand at a time, and -- silly as it may sound -- I actually
liked the redundancy. Bait a Hero's Downfall, drop another Chandra. She's not utterly terrible in mulitples because she does tend to die, and I want to run three because I like seeing her.

I didn't come across many Reaper of the Wilds, so I didn't have to worry about her hexproof ability. Only the Bg player ran them and I just went over the top with the dragon in the end, or baited him into tapping out for other reasons then Chained it.

The dragons were brilliant for me, and I never found myself unable to cast them when I wanted to because I usually didn't want to cast them on curve; the games the dragon was useful were games where I wasn't playing as a typical aggro deck. I didn't mind letting the game draw out longer in those matches and therefore using it more as a control-esque finisher than a normal aggro curve-topper, so he didn't need to come down exactly on turn 5. Empty their hand of removal spells by baiting them with a Chandra's Phoenix (which you then recur anyway with burn or
Chandra herself), and when you're comfortable with them having no more removal, drop the dragon and see the game out. Only running the one copy mainboard also means that even if does get stuck in my hand for whatever reason, it's only one card. Matches where I bring in the second are matches that tend to go on longer, and thus where I see more land. Plus, scrying is king - if I know it's a match that favours dragons I can start scrying for extra land.


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