Dies to Removal

I am 5-2 vs junk in sanctioned play with RW... Sure rhino into rhino is backbreaking, but its not THAT bad of a matchup.

Gryff stops the lifegain, SBD blocks him all day long, and there are excellent white cards to exile that fucker.

They play 1 card, and we have to spend 2 to even begin to deal with it. Playtest the matchup and you'll start to see why it's so miserable. I've been trying multiple different decks, and I can't find one that can even win it 40% of the time.

How is that any different of a position than red mages have ever been in with pushed-quality cards from other colors?

I am 5-2 vs junk in sanctioned play with RW... Sure rhino into rhino is backbreaking, but its not THAT bad of a matchup.

Can I get your current RW list purp? Is that 5-2 after dropping rabble from the main?

I am 3-1 after dropping rabble from the main. Was 2-1 before.

Currently

[deck]
4 Swiftspear
4 Seeker
3 Hushwing Gryff
2 Ashcloud phoenix

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke
3 Searing Blood
4 Chains
3 Hordeling Outburst

2 Chandra

23 lands

Sb
3 Glare
2 Erase
2 SBD
1 Crag land
1 Elspeth
3 Magma Spray
1 Hushwing Gryff
2 Banishing Light
[/deck]

vs junk mid i do: -4 swift spear -3 outburst -1 searing blood +3 Glare +2 SBD +1 Hughwing +1 Crag +1 elspeth sometime erase and banishing light depending on if i feel like.

also, keep in mind thats to combat the meta at my local store from this past week, I imagine the SB will change if mono green picks back up. (locally)

Why no Sarhkan Purp? Also, whats your board for jeskai? +Glare, + SBD, - some combo of grph and outburst?

I havn't tried sarkhan in this list, but my initial thought is that I don't really want a 5 drop in my opening hand in G1. I really like chandra in that she adds to our G1 nutdraw. I also don't think sarkhan is better than stormbreath in any matchup other than green devo.

Vs Jeskai: -3 Hushwing -4 Chains +1 land +2 SBD +3 Magma Spray +1 BLight

I could see also wanting elspeth and not wanting magma sprays if they bring in angers etc.. That's def much harder to SB for.

Im testing 4x hush 4x rabble in the main and its been doing alright. I cant find a list I really like though.

I havent been too impressed with ashcloud phoenix, what matchups are you finding it best in?

Any green deck.

For me its been good vs mardu, UB control and junk aggro (its not too hot vs junk midrange). I imagine its god vs green devo since they cant remove it.

I've really been struggling to beat green devotion with this list recently. Any tips for the match up besides land hushwing early? I fell like they always just ramp into hornet queen and by then there's nothing I can do..

I imagine green devo would be a tough matchup. All of our threats matchup poorly. The obvious answer would be switch to jeskai, but if you want to stay RW, find room for reprisals, harness maybe, suspension field, banishing lights.

DP + Hushwing = Dead Gx Devo

Yeah at my event tonight I saw palm do MAJOR work in my friends deck... probably gonna find room to make it a 2 of. I bought a couple ashcloud to test and it was pretty insane as well, really liking it.

DP is good, but its literally only good vs green devo

Playing around with the following list:

[deck]
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Windscarred Crag
3 Plains
11 Mountain

4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Hushwing Gryph
3 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Chained to the Rock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
3 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames
[/deck]

My thought is, take Strasky's deck from the pro tour and get rid of blue. Mantis Rider turns into Swiftspear, banishing light turns into chained to the rock, and charm becomes searing blood. Sure, we lose some flexibility, but we speed the deck up and gain a ton of consistency.

Sideboard is a WIP, but I'm thinking Deflecting Palm and Sarkhan for the green devotion decks, reprisal/pillar of light/glare of heresy for Junk, and magma spray/4th searing blood for the jeskai match.

Played a few games in tourney practice on MTGO, and beat Junk Midrange in the first match. Matchup felt good, I even punted and played stormbreath with hushwing in hand and knowing he had a rhino on top, but it just didn't matter. Stormbreath is just a massive beating against junk, and I want it everytime I hit five mana. Also played against junk aggro, and got mana screwed in two games. Kept a speculative one lander in game 2, with three Swifties, but never drew the second land.

Sure does feel better than having to play tapped lands all the time and getting color screwed with a fistful of blue cards.

Has anyone thought about turning this into a mardu deck as opposed to jeskai..... Mardu fliers anyone?
Essentially we are playing the Jeskai game of burn + flying threats but taking on mardu options instead....

2cmc - seeker/alterac bloodseeker?
3cmc - rabblemaster/herald of torment/master of the feast/ hushwing gryff
4cmc - ashcloud phoenix/butcher
5cmc- sarkhan/stormbreath/wingmate roc

replace jeskai charm with crackling doom, run a similar burn package....onto a winner perhaps?

The whole reason to play RW burn is so you don't have to deal with a 3 color mana base.

^^I agree.

However, Crackling Doom is a gross card and the idea isn't awful.

Some people used to splash erebos in the SB in old burn... maybe that could be a nice tool against rhino too? I dunno, probably not worth it at 4cmc when theyre playing them on 3 usually

I like the idea of the swiftspear, into seeker, into craackinling doom. That's all I would want to splash black for...

someone make the manabase.

Tried this in a 3 rounder yesterday:

[deck]
Creatures
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way

Planeswalkers
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells
3 Arc Lightning
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Deflecting Palm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames

Lands
4 Battlefield Forge
12 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag

Sideboard
1 Fated Retribution
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Banishing Light
2 Magma Spray
2 Harness by Force
2 Erase
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Hushwing Gryff
[/deck]

Sideboard is mostly for trying out various cards, and I had access to only 2 Hushwings. Played 3 Abzan Midrange decks, won the first match 2-1, then lost 0-2 against the last two opponents. Had to mulligan a lot of opening hands. Had a few games that I got them down to 5 and lower, but I just couldn't finish them off.

Last week I did some testing with this:

[deck]
Lands (23)
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
12 Mountain
2 Plains

Creatures (20)
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Borderland Marauder
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Iroas, God of Victory

Spells (17)
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Jet
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Hordeling Outburst

Sideboard
1 Erase
2 Harness by Force
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Banishing Light
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Mountain
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Arc Lightning
2 Magma Spray
[/deck]

Won 4-2 against Abzan Midrange then (2-1 before sideboards, and 2-1 after), but I lost to Mono Black Aggro (Master of Feast...just urgh...) and Gb Devotion/Enchantment.

With those two sessions in mind I'd like to try this before GP Stockholm, but I probably won't have time to do it:

[deck]
Creatures (14)
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Hushwing Gryff
2 Ashcloud Phoenix

Planeswalkers (1)
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells (22)
3 Arc Lightning
3 Hordeling Outburst
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Stoke the Flames

Lands (23)
4 Battlefield Forge
12 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag

Sideboard
2 Iroas, God of Victory
2 Banishing Light
2 Harness by Force
2 Erase
4 Glare of Heresy
3 Reprisal/Pillar of Light
[/deck]

Feels like this would be better against Abzan and Gb/Gr Monsters decks, and maybe against Mono Black as well. Mono Red (low curve aggros, probably only competitive version right now) is probably favorable as well. Don't know about Jeskai, haven't played against those.

Any thoughts on this latest deck? Sideboard is a bit iffy, but maindeck feels quite ok.

Sure does feel better than having to play tapped lands all the time and getting color screwed with a fistful of blue cards.

Be even better with an Arid Mesa reprint legal in Standard...

I think the 3 arc lightning should be searing blood. It's really good right now, especially when the idea is to race G1. I would also do -1 mountain +1 crag/plains/mana confluence.

I agree in that Lightning should be Searing Blood. And if you want the 12th mountain for Chained you can make your 23rd land an evolving wilds.

11 mountains is fine. It's the post board games youll be needing the extra white source.

What about Flamespeaker Adept at the 3 spot? It's probably a different deck but I love the idea of him being able to attack through just about everything in the format while holding a spark jolt, magma jet, or shoot even a spite of mogis.

Flamespeaker adept doesn't make your problem matchups better.

Agree with the Flamespeaker, for most the time, he isn't that great. Dies to removal is a problem with this guy. And when he's not dead, he will get chumped by any of their massive walls. And even when he lives and hits, his ability doesnt help end the game quicker than the Rabblemaster can.

I see many of you are opting to go for Jeskai builds over Boros. Im guessing because the deck still tries to do the same thing but the third color just makes it have more powerful options *mantis rider, charm,and other blue crap*.

I like the idea of the swiftspear, into seeker, into craackinling doom. That's all I would want to splash black for...

someone make the manabase.

I tried this earlier this week. LD tested it a bit too. We both came to the conclusion that it's just a worse Jeskai. I didn't give him my SB to try, but if the game 1's aren't there then it doesn't matter much.

[deck]
Creatures - 14
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Butcher of the Horde
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers - 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sorceries - 4
4 Hordeling Outburst

Instants - 16
4x Crackling Doom
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
4x Stoke the Flames

Land - 24
3x Battlefield Forge
2x Bloodstained Mire
1x Caves of Koilos
6x Mountain
4x Nomad Outpost
1x Swamp
3x Temple of Malice
4x Temple of Triumph

Sideboard - 15
2x Ashcloud Phoenix
2x Despise
2x Erase
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Glare of Heresy
3x Hushwing Gryff
2x Magma Spray
[/deck]

That said, I could see dropping the butchers for Gryffs MD, and switching Outburst to Thoughtseize. Jeskai's counters are what really put them over the top, so not sure how TS would even out, if at all.

I dont want to play any of those creatures (except seeker), but ill screw around tonight and see how the mana does. thanks!

edit: like the only black I want is Doom.

yeah Doom is a HUGE draw.

I posted that list mainly because you were asking about mana bases. So you can see what my curve was to get there, and tweak the mana according to what you want the other 36-40 cards to be.

I think that if you go black you get Doom and you also build around Sorin + Butcher of the Horde a little bit. You can cut some of the weaker burn spells and fill in the gaps left by Chained/blue spells with Token producers. Hordeling outburst has been very good against Jeskai and Raise the Alarm has been a played as a one-of in some Jeskai lists.

Cuz those cards are just stronk

I think we're onto a winner here. I think master of the feast should be looked into at the 3 drop slot.

Idk you want to be able to play control/win long games if necessary which isn't reasonable with a Master in play.

Also Master is mainly good against aggro and aggro has all but disappeared.

Don't sleep on Mardu Charm. Another four damage spell to a creature is pretty nice, as is instant dudes and Duress.

[deck]
4 monastery swiftspear
4 seeker of the way
4 goblin rabblemaster

4 raise the alarm
3 magma jet
4 lightning strike
4 hordeling outburst
2 mardu charm
4 crackling doom
4 stoke the flames

3 temple of triumph
3 temple of silence
2 nomad outpost
4 battlefield forge
2 mana confluence
4 bloodstained mire
1 swamp
5 mountain
[/deck]

I'm having continued success with the RW "Je'skies" deck I posted on page 6. 3 Phoenix + 2 Stormbreath just win games against junk, especially if you make it to 6 mana and they can't kill the phoenix. Jeskai doesn't stand a chance, they can't keep a threat on the field and they just fall way behind. Haven't had a chance to play green devotion, yet though.