[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[photodyer]

Real simple trial deck to test the viability of the new guys:

[deck]Creatures: 27
4 Gravecrawler
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Blood Scrivener
4 Geralf's Messenger
3 Varloz, the Scar-Striped

Spells: 11
4 Tragic Slip
4 Rancor
3 Abrupt Decay

Lands: 22
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
2 Golgari Guildgate
4 Cavern of Souls
8 Swamp[/deck]

I think I'll proxy this up and test it out tomorrow to see how it plays. Any feedback from just looking at the list before I do?

A few points...feel free to bitch slap me if I'm off in my logic here--

-Scrivener wants your hand empty, so I think the deck is going to have to be creature-heavy, like 30+. This is about overrunning them with trample so removal just
doesn't matter.

-You're perfect IMO with the low curve--you don't need many lands to go off. I think Cackler is weak, though, as his scavenge value is nothing special.

-Dreg Mangler deserves consideration because he has haste.

-This deck screams for Deathrite Shaman as a value multiplier since you will discard lands as well as creatures.

Question - If Varolz is on the field and you have, say Mangler in the yard, which rule determines Mangler's Scavenge cost? That would impact card selection...

[redthirst]

- I can get on board with this, I just like having some removal... I can always drop Rancor for more dudes.

- Cackler is just another 2/2 for - it is, in fact, nothing special but I don't know what else fits there better.

- Dreg Mangler is good, but I didn't want 10+ 3-drops.

- I have no way to discard lands... his most reliable use would be to get me +2 life, but I don't think that's worth the deck slots.

- Mangler would have 2 abilities: Scavenge 1GB and Scavenge 3GB (or whatever his original Scavenge cost is) - you can choose which ability you'd like to use.

[photodyer]

- I can get on board with this, I just like having some removal... I can always drop Rancor for more dudes.

- Cackler is just another 2/2 for - it is, in fact, nothing special but I don't know what else fits there better.

- Dreg Mangler is good, but I didn't want 10+ 3-drops.

- I have no way to discard lands... his most reliable use would be to get me +2 life, but I don't think that's worth the deck slots.

- Mangler would have 2 abilities: Scavenge 1GB and Scavenge 3GB (or whatever his original Scavenge cost is) - you can choose which ability you'd like to use.

-I would keep Rancor; again, you want to run them the hell over with trample
before they can get a meaningful board state.

-Hope for another 2-power 1-drop in B or G; that would replace Cackler with better scavenge value.

-Point taken on Mangler, but another consideration that addresses lands--Run LotV; yes a 3-drop, but she is creature removal and a way for you to ditch extra lands. Shaman is likely a side-in anyway or a split between main & side.

I'm just brainstorming here...like I said, the other possibility is focusing on 2-drops then dropping IS as a late wincon. That could even be a sideboard plan to catch people totally off-guard after they side in to try to kill big tramplers.

[photodyer]

Random relevant but likely stupid question: Do we know for sure that the guild packs in the DGM PR kits are made up of DGM cards? I assume they are but given that my only other PR experience with a short set was DKA, (3/3 ISD/DKA) I thought it best to ask.

[photodyer]

Well hell...they are printing a card to get your cards in the GY if you want to follow a more traditional curve. Not constructed playable, I don't think, but it will potentiate Varolz in Limited

Rot Farm Skeleton 2GB
creature - plant skeleton
Rot Farm Skeleton can't block.
2BG, Put the top four cards of your library into your graveyard: Return Rot Farm Skeleton from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.

Also, plan on reworking that Mono Black Vampire control list as Dimir Vampire Control with a secondary mill strategy:

Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker 3UB
legendary creature - vampire
Flying
Whenever Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker deals combat damage to a player, that player reveals cards from the top of his or her library
until he or she reveals four land cards, then puts those cards into his or her graveyard.
2/4

[redthirst]

Well, if any B or G one drop will do, I'd take Experiment One - its value is the same as Cackler's in the yard but way more on the table... I just don't think I have enough G in the deck to play it. It's a 1-drop that I could almost never play on the first turn.

[photodyer]

Well, if any B or G one drop will do, I'd take Experiment One - its value is the same as Cackler's in the yard but way more on the table... I just don't think I have enough G in the deck to play it. It's a 1-drop that I could almost never play on the first turn.

True point...you are doing right to proxy up and start fiddling methinks.

It just occurred to me that this Golgari plan will have the same issue as current Lol Troll/Scavenge strategies--Azorius Charm. That supports the idea of Servitude in the side; go at them with the standard aggro plan while dumping into the yard, get board-wiped by Verdict, Messenger comes back and allows you to recast Crawler, then IS a bunch of 2-drops and run him over.

Random meta observation--people are dumping Thragtusk on MTGO right now. He's dropped from $15 to $10 in the past week...people getting out of Reanimator due to excesses of hate maybe?

[Valdarith]

Well, if any B or G one drop will do, I'd take Experiment One - its value is the same as Cackler's in the yard but way more on the table... I just don't think I have enough G in the deck to play it. It's a 1-drop that I could almost never play on the first turn.

True point...you are doing right to proxy up and start fiddling methinks.

It just occurred to me that this Golgari plan will have the same issue as current Lol Troll/Scavenge strategies--Azorius Charm. That supports the idea of Servitude in the side; go at them with the standard aggro plan while dumping into the yard,
get board-wiped by Verdict, Messenger comes back and allows you to recast Crawler, then IS a bunch of 2-drops and run him over.

Random meta observation--people are dumping Thragtusk on MTGO right now. He's dropped from $15 to $10 in the past week...people getting out of Reanimator due to excesses of hate maybe?

I noticed that too, but it's still too high IMO. I'd expect a drop to $8 or less.

[photodyer]

Well, if any B or G one drop will do, I'd take Experiment One - its value is the same as Cackler's in the yard but way more on the table... I just don't think I have enough G in the deck to play it. It's a 1-drop that I could almost never play on the first turn.

True point...you are doing right to proxy up and start fiddling methinks.

It just occurred to me that this Golgari plan will have the same issue as current Lol
Troll/Scavenge strategies--Azorius Charm. That supports the idea of Servitude in the side; go at them with the standard aggro plan while dumping into the yard, get board-wiped by Verdict, Messenger comes back and allows you to recast Crawler, then IS a bunch of 2-drops and run him over.

Random meta observation--people are dumping Thragtusk on MTGO right now. He's dropped from $15 to $10 in the past week...people getting out of Reanimator due to excesses of hate maybe?

I noticed that too, but it's still too high IMO. I'd expect a drop to $8 or less.

I totally agree with you, Valdarith...I just thought it interesting that Tusk in particular is taking a nosedive. LotV has dropped as much, but going for $40 to $35 isn't so relevant. . Tusk is
diving, and AoS took a dip as well (though still at $20), which suggests people getting out of Rites. I like analyzing trends like this...a fun side project.

Of note value-wise, Gideon is down to $4.24 on MtGO. He might be worth speculating on...if Theros gives him a home, he has definite room to grow in value.

[TubeHunter]

I play Gideon in the SB of my Junk deck. (Midrange, not reanimator) He is a beating against control. Why I don't think he is that great, if given the right opportunity, he could shine.

[windstrider]

'morning, gents.

Just ordered my playset of Exava. Some of the other cards look interesting, but she's the one that excites me. Kinky that way, I guess.

[Calamity]

Still waiting on them spoiling some red cards besides the rakdos stuff....

I really hope the boros champ is good.

[Self Medicated]

Just checking in. Day 24 of the Ham Challenge. My eating habits are slowly changing. Soda is a thing of the past. Beer is only a sometimes thing. Bread is almost gone. My weakness is sugar. My wife offered me chocolate last night. Dammit. Couldn't resist. Anyways, I am actually starting to feel a little better. Don't know if that's psychological, but it's something.

Just need 2 more Arid Mesa and my Modern R/G deck will be complete. And I just checked out Alex's Boros midrange deck last night. I must say, it looks fantastic. Definitely going to try this, as it looks like it might wreck shop in my local meta.

[redthirst]

'morning, gents.

Just ordered my playset of Exava. Some of the other cards look interesting, but she's the one that excites me. Kinky that way, I guess.

Yeah, I picked up a set of her too. Even if she ends up being a $1.00 rare I'm only out like $10.00 - I can live with that.

I'll try and pick up some Varolz on the cheap too, probably, but will wait for people to realize that Blood Scrivener is not, in fact, Bob-lite before I pick them up... I mean, I like it and think it's good in the right deck and all, but it's certainly not $10.00 good.

[Link]

Real tempted to run this janky ass deck at standard tonight until I get 2 more reckoners for BlasphemousAct.R/g:

Basically budgety Ross meriam:

[deck]Creature (34)
4x Arbor Elf
2x Borderland Ranger
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Flinthoof Boar
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
4x Gyre Sage
2x Legion Loyalist
4x Rubblebelt Raiders
3x Strangleroot Geist
3x Wolfir Silverheart
Land (22)
9x Forest
5x Mountain
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Stomping Ground
Enchantment (2)
2x Rancor
Planeswalker (2)
2x Domri Rade

SB
3x Dryad Militant
2x Gruul Charm
3x Kessig Cagebreakers
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Legion Loyalist
3x Plummet
2x Skarrg Guildmage[/deck]

instead of hellkites, Rubblebelt raiders makes an appearance!

Testing shows that she is house with a Loyalist after she comes down or a geist+GCR in hand. Loyalist+Geists is insane. Loyalist+Boars is awesome. Loyalist with silverheart, etc. Loyalist is going to be really
relevant especially when that 5/5 wurm BS start getting played imo.

Ramping into T3 Raiders is also insane.

Borderland ranger lets me cut the land count down for more threat density, also gives a body for raiders.


Cons:
Gyre sage doesn't evolve for **** because no hellkites. She can still be sexy though.
No removal, no bonfires. I could play 4x Mortars MB (dropping rangers and rancors?) but I like playing the zoo version. Also there isn't much aggro at my LGS just Junk rites and midrange+ so I never really go into "control" mode.




Its either play some more R/g aggro until Runic thar comes out and then shove him in this deck and play that forever, or start getting used to this archetype now (even though its subpar?).

[photodyer]

Interesting new finisher Fuse set in Jund colors:

Body (Left) 3BG

Sorcery Rare

Exile target creature from a graveyard, put X +1/+1 counters on target creature. X equal to the power of target card you exiled this way.

Blood(Right) RG

Sorcery Rare

Target creature you control deals damage equal to its power to target creature or target player.


Fuse (You may cast one or both halves of this card from your hand.)

Exile Swagtusk from the GY, drop the counters on another Swagtusk, "10 you".

[photodyer]

'morning, gents.

Just ordered my playset of Exava. Some of the other cards look interesting, but she's the one that excites me. Kinky that way, I guess.

Yeah, I picked up a set of her too. Even if she ends up being a $1.00 rare I'm only out like $10.00 - I can live with that.

I'll try and pick up some Varolz on the cheap too, probably, but will wait for people to realize that Blood Scrivener is not, in fact, Bob-lite before I pick them up... I mean, I like it and think it's good in the right deck and all, but it's certainly not $10.00 good.

Channelfireball is sometimes reasonable with its new rare prices as they come online...I'll keep an eye and post when last night's spoilers show up.

[Tharkun]

I picked up my playset of exava and Valroz, the Scar-Striped today. There is some interesting synergy going on that makes me think Jund Aggro will be pretty nuts. I also ordered a playset of vexing devil. I always liked the art and Valroz makes that card useful. BTE is key since it is mana fixing as well as accelleration. There will be something there though I am not sure what at this point.

[Link]

So I just beat a Junk rites in playtesting through a T4 AoS and a flashbacked AoS. (throw in a few tusks in there too)

15/13 Raiders swinging in, forced to chump with AoS the first time, got back my loyalist and boar and geists and shit.

Silverheart paired with Rampager is also nice for 8/8 trampling goodness.

I'll come back with a report later to see if I fell on my face or if my Timmyesque deck suceeds gloriously.

I do think VD+Valroz will be a thing for jund aggro now. Maybe Rapid Hybridization will become removal as a response? PAVING THE WAY FOR RDW AND ITS SMALL CREAUTRES?

*cackles*

[Helios]

@Fate: Nice. How consistently has Raiders worked for you?

^ That is actually pretty good honestly.

Is there any way to turbo out Sire of Insanity? It soft-combos with the new mini-confidant as well. If you've only got 1 card a turn to kill it, there is a good chance that you won't, and it beats in for 6 a turn.

Heartless Summoning is one of the fastest ways. Which has anti-synergy with New Bob.

Who I am still convinced is just terrible unless you're playing card draw alongside him. Zombies is the only deck I can see him being ok in, w/out making any other changes. But that's just me being hyperworried about the control match-up, which is the only one you don't want to vomit your hand against. He's probably fine in all the other ones.
n
Wow, does anyone else change their opinion on cards as their posting?

[Tharkun]

Real simple trial deck to test the viability of the new guys:

[deck]Creatures: 27
4 Gravecrawler
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Blood Scrivener
4 Geralf's Messenger
3 Varloz, the Scar-Striped

Spells: 11
4 Tragic Slip
4 Rancor
3 Abrupt Decay

Lands: 22
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
2 Golgari Guildgate
4 Cavern of Souls
8 Swamp[/deck]

I think I'll proxy this up and test it out tomorrow to see how it plays. Any feedback from just looking at the list before I do?

I recommend replacing cackler with Dryad Militant.

[redthirst]

Wow, does anyone else change their opinion on cards as their posting?

All the time.

That's why you can regularly see the chronological evolution of my card evaluation when you read my posts.

Post 1: This card is bonkers!

Post 2: This card is bonkers because...
...and that's why it's pretty good.

Post 3: This card is pretty good because...
...and that's why it'll see conditional play.

Post 4: This card will see conditional play because...
...and that's why it's complete trash.

It goes the other way sometimes too.

[Link]

The only game I didn't want to see her was because she didn't have haste and I could just swing with things I already have and bloodrush for the win.

She's horrible against control, which I haven't bothered to playtest because I know she's too slow against them, which are why Cagebreakers are in the SB (should be hellriders, which I own, but double R with this mana base? Possibly.)

Against midrange strategies she's pretty unstoppable. Loyalists+Rancor+Rampager have been enough evasion enablers for her so far after about 10-12 games of testing

[Link]

Also check your PM Helios!

[redthirst]

I recommend replacing cackler with Dryad Militant.

I'm only playing 4 sources of turn 1 mana.

[Dodger]

Wow, does anyone else change their opinion on cards as their posting?

All the time.

That's why you can regularly see the chronological evolution of my card evaluation when you read my posts.

Post 1: This card is bonkers!

Post 2: This card is bonkers because...
...and that's why it's pretty good.

Post 3: This card is pretty good because...
...and that's why it'll see conditional play.

Post 4: This card will see conditional play because...
...and that's why it's complete trash.

It goes the other way sometimes too.

I'm the same way. I
thought that 7/5 for 5 with ramp on a stick was nuts at first. Then I read it again and realized your opponent gets the ramp before you ever do. No longer thinking it's bonkers

[Aesnath]

I love the "almost-bob," especially that it's a zombie--totally worth trying out. However, I think the major synergy is with Liliana, it helps to break the symmetry if you can play half your cards from the yard an refill faster.

I'm not in love with the troll--it could work as a sac-outlet, but then you'll want blood artists. I doubt the "scavenge-everything" effect is potent enough for a 3cc 2/2.

As for pre-orders, I'm not sure. The presence of the champs as intro-rares makes them all subpar, at least for the short term. As much as I love the blood scrivener, I'm not convinced he'll be worth more than $5 following the end of release hype. My pre-order recommendation would probably be to wait.

I was thinking of a list like yours RT, but I'm not convinced I want the troll yet; especially not over Lili.

[redthirst]

I don't know man, when you're actively trying to shit your whole hand onto the table - another regenerate dude who also makes all those useless cards in your yard into relevant spells is pretty good.

My only issue is that he can't sac himself to his own ability, so if you get another in hand without Lotleth Troll then you're probably not going to be using Scriv's ability that game.

That seems pretty corner-case, though.

[Aesnath]

He's do nothing the turn he comes down and requires an extra mana investment to do anything. I'll have to play with him a few times before I'm sure, but I think I'd rather have a 3/3 haste most of the time.

Also, @speculation targets: I do have a funny feeling about the Obezat's Aid (or however you spell it). The effect is unique and it let's you cheat in enchantments and planeswalkers. I'm not sure it will go up, but the uniqueness makes it oddly positioned.

[Helios]

Agree on Obzedat's Aid. I hear cheating Omniscience into play is good.

[redthirst]

On a completely unrelated note - best sig quotes ever:

I think Hitler was also an amazing person...

hitler was pretty amazing.

[redthirst]

He's do nothing the turn he comes down and requires an extra mana investment to do anything. I'll have to play with him a few times before I'm sure, but I think I'd rather have a 3/3 haste most of the time.

I don't think Haste is anywhere close to as necessary in an Aggro deck that has as much resiliency and utility as the one I posted.

The way I read him is as basically putting every creature in your GY back into your hand but with Haste... and that seems pretty baller.

[Valdarith]

I don't know man, when you're actively trying to shit your whole hand onto the table - another regenerate dude who also makes all those useless cards in your yard into relevant spells is pretty good.

My only issue is that he can't sac himself to his own ability, so if you get another in hand without Lotleth Troll then you're probably not going to be using Scriv's ability that game.

That seems pretty corner-case, though.

It also makes Splinterfright seem playable for once.

[Helios]

It also makes Splinterfright seem playable for once.

That deck actually did pretty well for a while, if I recall.

[redthirst]

Ugh...

Channel Fireball had Blood Scriveners for 6.00 - which is probably still high, but it's as cheap as they're going to be for a while - and in the time it took me to check out they sold out.

Fucking fuck.

[Aesnath]

He's do nothing the turn he comes down and requires an extra mana investment to do anything. I'll have to play with him a few times before I'm sure, but I think I'd rather have a 3/3 haste most of the time.

I don't think Haste is anywhere close to as necessary in an Aggro deck that has as much resiliency and utility as the one I posted.

The way I read him is as basically putting every creature in your GY back into your hand but with Haste... and that seems pretty baller.

I've played a list very similar to yours--you're expecting to win fast
with that list, I think you want the haste.

Being able to play your creatures as +1/+1 counters isn't the same as being able to replay them outright (I get that you know this, but still). Scavenge forces you to put your eggs in one basket--not saying it isn't helpful, but it ain't great, especially when you're talking about lacking any form of evasion. The effect is reasonable, but it isn't worth playing an inefficient dude for it.

[photodyer]

Ugh...

Channel Fireball had Blood Scriveners for 6.00 - which is probably still high, but it's as cheap as they're going to be for a while - and in the time it took me to check out they sold out.

Fucking fuck.

Well damn...call it chase rare. Yeah, ebay is still $35-40/playset...I'm not that committed yet, even if it is a 2-drop playable zombie. $3-4 for these guild champs is one thing, but for all we know they could spoil something next week that shoots Scrivener in the foot (wouldn't be the first time).

[redthirst]

I don't see the guy as being that inefficient. Sure 3 mana for a 2/2 sucks, but the guy's also pretty resilient and that effect is nothing to scoff at - I think it's good enough.

Also, there's 8 sources of Trample in the list - so there is some evasion.

[Aesnath]

Fair enough on the trample--I think you'll be disappointed with it though.

[rcwraspy]

I don't see the guy as being that inefficient. Sure 3 mana for a 2/2 sucks, but the guy's also pretty resilient and that effect is nothing to scoff at - I think it's good enough.

Also, there's 8 sources of Trample in the list - so there is some evasion.

Do you think he puts you more into a midrange strategy than pure aggro?