Dies to Removal

That would be overkilling anyway.

I don't feel like sheeping C_P is a wise choice anyway, as he is the less informed player at the moment: he just knows he's town, so every other player is 40% scum to him - you, on the other hand, know his alignment AND yours, so that makes every other player (provided you're town, of course) 50% scum to you.

I'm more interested in people's read rather than just a lynch, anyway.

C_P is worth considering in opinion and you keep minimizing him to gain main town speaker.

If you turn up scum, prolly ham

If you turn up town, we lose

Well, I know it's not me or CP. If I'm believing Ham, then he's either bussing LMD really hard or he's legit town. I'm betting town.

That leaves you and Wraith. I get where Ham's coming from when he says the team has to be you and LMD, but I've never really had a scum read off of you. I'd have to conclude that it's Wraith and they've just done good work distancing each other with voting patterns. Honestly, I can't expect them to be dumb enough to not do something like that in the past if they were on the same team.

See bolded.

So I think it's pretty apparent Dechs is tunneling me

I've been over my thoughts enough times by now. You haven't been helpful to town. Hell, you hardly have any input unless someone's voting you. You had a bomb delivered to you and didn't die when the target of the bomb was unknown. Someone protected you. If it was a townie, that would have been claimed already. Scum protected you, and they'd have to be idiots to protect a townie when scum could have been the target of the bomb.

First point: you're "betting" ham is town?
You're calling LMD sure-scum by 100% believing ham's side of the story, yet you still lack the guts to call him town?

You seem confused, explain yourself to DadNihilist.

This means that 4 players (me, C_P, DK, LMD) has Wraith in their scum team, if I'm correct.

That'd be enough for a lynch.

Anybody backing off?

I think you mean Ham, not CP, but I don't see things the way you do. I don't think Ham/Wraith is a team any more than Wrath/LMD is the team or that you/Wraith is the team. I'm not even certain Wraith is scum.

LMD is who I find the most likely scum. If he is, then it's probably Wraith as his teammate. Wraith is behind an "if" and a "probably," while LMD is behind a bomb that never killed him. My vote isn't changing.

I've asked you before who do you think LMD's partner could be.
You've posted "(...) I'd have to conclude that it's Wraith
and they've just done good work distancing each other with voting patterns. Honestly, I can't expect them to be dumb enough to not do something like that in the past if they were on the same team".
Now you're saying that you don't think Wraith + LMD is more likely than ham + Wraith (a team without your best read, but with the player you've been barning all day).

Please, explain yourself.

That would be overkilling anyway.

I don't feel like sheeping C_P is a wise choice anyway, as he is the less informed player at the moment: he just knows he's town, so every other player is 40% scum to him - you, on the other hand, know his alignment AND yours, so that makes every other player (provided you're town, of course) 50% scum to you.

I'm more interested in people's read rather than just a lynch, anyway.

C_P is worth considering in opinion and you keep minimizing him to gain main town speaker.

1) I've asked C_P's opinion frequently, yet I don'
t want people to sheep him. There's nothing wrong here.
2) Shut up, crime.

That would be overkilling anyway.

I don't feel like sheeping C_P is a wise choice anyway, as he is the less informed player at the moment: he just knows he's town, so every other player is 40% scum to him - you, on the other hand, know his alignment AND yours, so that makes every other player (provided you're town, of course) 50% scum to you.

I'm more interested in people's read rather than just a lynch, anyway.

nC_P is worth considering in opinion and you keep minimizing him to gain main town speaker.

1) I've asked C_P's opinion frequently, yet I don't want people to sheep him. There's nothing wrong here.
2) Shut up, crime.

Explain this.

This means that 4 players (me, C_P, DK, LMD) has Wraith in their scum team, if I'm correct.

That'd be enough for a lynch.

Anybody backing off?

I think you mean Ham, not CP, but I don't see things the way you do. I don't think Ham/Wraith is a team any more than Wrath/LMD is the team or that you/Wraith is the team. I'm not even certain Wraith is scum.

LMD is who I find the most likely scum. If he is, then it'
s probably Wraith as his teammate. Wraith is behind an "if" and a "probably," while LMD is behind a bomb that never killed him. My vote isn't changing.

C_P published a T/S list before where ham and Wraith were his scummiest reads.
ham said that he sees LMD as 100% scum and you being scummier than Wraith.
I'm pretty sure I meant what I've written.

Tell me more about your reads, anyway.

Ok, I apologize. I misinterpreted that entirely. I thought you meant four people who would be paired with Wraith as the scum team, not four people who think Wraith is scum.

That said, it hasn't changed my mind. Ham says I'm scummier than Wraith, then completely clears me a few posts later. He's sure I'm town, so what's that say about Wraith?

My reads?
[Ham/LMD] - One of these has to be scum setting up the other for a fall. I am 100% certain of that. At the end of today, my vote is either going on LMD or Ham because one of these two guys must be
scum. I believe Ham and he's done a lot to help town out the past days. LMD has not. Again, he's hardly ever even talked until he was staring down the gallows.
Red - I broke your wagon down on day one because I read you as town and that hasn't changed. By the analysis and the Occam's Razor bit, you're LMD's scum buddy; I'm not ready to buy that. If you are scum, then I'd like to congratulate you on a game wll played.
Wraith - When LMD flips scum, I say we look at this guy next. There was a quick hammer that nags at me, but I was on the same wagon and I think I'd have done the same thing had I gotten to the thread in the reverse order. I was damn convinced of Rez being scum.

Did I forget anyone?

DK:

I haven't cleared you as town, and the only player I'm sure of is C_P.

I've asked you before who do you think LMD's partner could be.
You've posted "(...) I'd have to conclude that it's Wraith and they've just done good work distancing each other with voting patterns. Honestly, I can't expect them to be dumb enough to not do something like that in the past if they were on the same team".
Now you're saying that you don't think Wraith + LMD is more likely than ham + Wraith (a team without your best read, but with the player you've been barning all day).

Please, explain yourself.

I'm just trying to not analyze a team. I think it's a bit too much for me to handle right now, as this is my first game.

Apologies, Ham, I thought you were convinced I was town. ... I could swear I read you say that after a re-read of Suga's and my posts.

Red said he was convinced of Suga's townieness based on an ISO.

My bad, that was Red.

I'm annoyed, still can't find a better lynch than LMD.

That would be overkilling anyway.

I don't feel like sheeping C_P is a wise choice anyway, as he is the less informed player at the moment: he just knows he's town, so every other player is 40% scum to him - you, on the other hand, know his alignment AND yours, so that makes every
other player (provided you're town, of course) 50% scum to you.

I'm more interested in people's read rather than just a lynch, anyway.

C_P is worth considering in opinion and you keep minimizing him to gain main town speaker.

1) I've asked C_P's opinion frequently, yet I don't want people to sheep him. There's nothing wrong here.
2) Shut up, crime.

Explain this.

I hope it's another sequel to operation mind crime by queensryche

That would be overkilling anyway.

I don't feel like sheeping C_P is a wise choice anyway, as he is the less informed player at the moment: he just knows he's town, so every other player is 40% scum to him - you, on the other hand, know his alignment AND yours, so that makes
every other player (provided you're town, of course) 50% scum to you.

I'm more interested in people's read rather than just a lynch, anyway.

C_P is worth considering in opinion and you keep minimizing him to gain main town speaker.

1) I've asked C_P's opinion frequently, yet I don't want people to sheep him. There's nothing wrong here.
2) Shut up, crime.

Explain this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNuEHUhTkKM

@Red, I don't get it. It just looks like another personal attack to me that is being covered up with a pointless video. Don't spend countless hours searching youtube for stuff like this, thus I am at a loss for understanding.

I'm annoyed, still can't find a better lynch than LMD.

This is particularly true for you because if he's town, then you're a masterfully played scum.

I'm annoyed, still can't find a better lynch than LMD.

This is particularly true for you because if he's town, then you're a masterfully played scum.

I'd love if I was able to go from lurk-mode scum newbie to master scum in 3 games, but I'm simply being outplayed here.

Hi I'm here, sorry for disappearing.

How does everyone feel about no lynching, Wraith NOT BLOCKING Lord McDonalds, and letting Lord McDonalds send out two pieces of mail?

Sure, I'm dead, but I'm not very useful right now, and you'll be able to work off of Lord Mcdonalds proving his ability.

There's no way to actually prove LMD's ability.

Why?

Let's assume we go for a no-lynch.

If he's scum, he can just claim to have mailed the just-nightkilled player or have his partner confirm his mail.
If he's not, he has to send mail to two non-scum players (as those would just refuse getting any mail from him) over the three that are not himself; that means that, even if he manages to actually "hit" two town-players, scum would have a 66% chance of just NKing one of them.

Choosing to go for a no lynch because in order to avoid losing the game on the spot could be viable, but doing so in order to have LMD clear himself doesn't really seem feasible.

Agree with Red here. Going for a no-lynch is handing the game to the scum team.

One of us will be NK'd, probably CP this time (we've said that since day one, though, haven't we?). Then it's down to 3:2 and it only takes three votes to lynch. One wrong vote and scum will pounce.

Also, that scenario requires that all three town players remaining be on the same page. There's no room for error at that point. We have a little cushion as it is.

Let's get this straight: right now mislynching is losing, no-lynching is not.
No-lynching CAN be a viable choice, but since I just don't see how LMD could verify his role I think we should find a better reason to make us want to go that way.

Let's get this straight: right now mislynching is losing, no-lynching is not.
No-lynching CAN be a viable choice, but since I just don't see how LMD could verify his role I think we should find a better reason to make us want to go that way.

The only way a no-lynch is viable is if CP is actually unkillable, claims it, and the scum team believes it/falls for it and kills one of us non-confirmed townies. That shrinks the suspect pool. Otherwise, they just kill CP and we're way worse off.

Mislynching is losing right now, no-lynching is losing tomorrow.

Why is having C_P alive that crucial to you?

Because if he's the NK, that doesn't shrink our suspect pool.

For example: If scum thinks he's unkillable and decides to kill you instead, then we know you're not scum. That tells us things.

If scum kills CP, that tells us nothing.

I meant it in a broader sense, actually.

Anyway, let's just put it this way: we need 2 scumlynches to win, and we can afford up to 1 no kill (today or tomorrow).
If somebody comes up with a good plan involving a no lynch, I'm open to discussion about it.
I'm just against the idea of going for a no-lynch on something so unreliable as giving LMD a chance to prove his role.

I'm just against the idea of going for a no-lynch on something so unreliable as giving LMD a chance to prove his role.

I'm very much agreeing with this.

I'm just saying, I really don't see how a no-lynch helps anyone but the scum team. I mean, sure, it's better than losing right away, but it's not going to give us any new information or reduce the suspect pool at all. We'll be in this exact situation tomorrow with even higher stakes because only one wrong vote will be enough to end the game.

The other problem with c_p plan is wraith not role blocking me, wraith did so last night despite cp asking me to use my role, what's to say he's not going to do it again?

Not to say no lynch isn't an option right now (it is but it would require dk to actually evaluate other scum options which he apparently refuses to do)

I meant it in a broader sense, actually.

Anyway, let's just put it this way: we need 2 scumlynches to win, and we can afford up to 1 no kill (today or tomorrow).
If somebody comes up with a good plan involving a no lynch, I'm open to discussion about it.
I'm just against the idea of going for a no-lynch on something so unreliable as giving LMD a chance to prove his role.

I find it very strange that you would not want LMD to prove his role, but the other points are really sound. Never considered a no lynch an option. I don't mind role blocking someone else if there is a good plan.

A NL today gives us the same dilemma tomorrow, but CP might have some trick up his sleeve that he's not telling us about. I'm fine with giving it a shot, what else could go wrong? Lulz.

Stardust, can I have a time for the deadline?
I'm having trouble understanding when exactly said deadline is.

(I guess it is at 29 hours for now, but I'd rather prefer to know than just guess).

Would have been 27 hours from that post. It's 24.5 hours from the time of this post. 8 am CST (UTC-6).

Ok.
That means 15.00 CET for me.

Vote Wraith

Ok.
That means 15.00 CET for me.

Vote Wraith

So you talk about a no lynch and throw a vote immediately when you ask about deadline. You give weak or no reasons for my vote and flip flop with wanting C_P to give opinions. Starting to think your incessant vote and need to call me scum is you playing scum. In theros game, you were more thoughtful in your opinions and tried to consider the facts more. I think you counter bussed RCW to stay alive.

Why do you ask to speed things up> complain about waiting on C_P > talk about a no lynch> now push a vote. Mixed messages. You going to give another discriminatory attack on me and my country in response?

@everyone else, scum want a fast vote and the fact of
the deadline looming on the horizon. That is what red is doing. Red was in my town read and now I am second guessing that call. Ham, is red acting different from the theros game to you?