[Primer] Boros Burn

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:40 pm

Since I no longer have my Black Cards (I HATE YOU MODERN ROBOTS) I've been venting on 8-mans running a variant on Z burn list (took down 3 so far, trying for my forth now which I'm 2-0 atm):

[deck=MDU's Rw Burn]Lands 23
9 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Boros Guildgate
3 Mutavault

Creatures 7
3 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments 3
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Blind Obedience

Instants 27
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Sideboard 15
1 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Satyr Firedancer
3 Viashino Firstblade
4 Firedrinker Satyr[/deck]

I wanted to run a 3rd BO and 4th Mutavault but I couldn't bring myself to cut MM (though looking back at my MUs I think cutting the MM would be correct).

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:56 pm

I don't think YP$ is what I want to be bringing in vs the mirror. -4 ASh +2 Chain +2 BO has worked fine for me, I am not a fan of giving them more Searing Blood targets.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:06 pm

Who said YP in the miror?

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:21 pm

That was RDW in the Screen Shot not the mirror, YP is for stalling which happens to be great vs Grx Monster, Wx Weenies, Esper Control and all the Bx decks.

What is more important 3rd BO, 4th Vaults or 4th Dancer?

P.S. I won that forth event and avenged Z

Toddington · Postby **Toddington** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:42 pm

Would be great to see some vids MDU!

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:43 pm

4th vault.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:43 pm

You have no idea how well that fucking luck sack ran against me to win, holy fuck.

So thank you.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:04 pm

After 4 events MDU, has cutting the 4th AZ in favor of BO been worth it?

BlakLanner · Postby **BlakLanner** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:09 pm

Wow, we are busy even when Wizards forgets to feed the hamster. YP is always an intriguing option. To me, the only reasons that Firedrinker is viable is because it is a 1-drop and can swing through Caryatids with 2 mana up. Other than that, I am not high on the card so viable alternatives are welcomed.

I have been seriously considering moving BlOb to the main deck. I seem to be bringing it in against anyone not hexproof. The only real question is if I give up Chained (and lose a few points against MBD in game 1) or Shock/Helix (and lose a few points against the BW aggro/enchantment decks that are common at my LGS). I am already struggling with pulling SFD from my board, so I probably won't get on the 4th Mutavault like a few of you.

Edit - Asuka Elementals?

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:22 pm

Felt good to be back.

See, that's EXACTLY where I want to be playing YP$. It just tilts aggro matches so heavily in your favor.

Also, if you switch Ash Zealot for Peezy, you may be able to get away with a fourth Mutavault.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:35 pm

I think the red aggro matchup is already in our favor. When we talk about cutting Ash Zealot for YP$, we are also weakening Searing Blood.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:01 pm

Felt good to be back.
See, that's EXACTLY where I want to be playing YP$. It just tilts aggro matches so heavily in your favor.

Also, if you switch Ash Zealot for Peezy, you may be able to get away with a fourth Mutavault.

Really? I think it's just going to eat a searing blood and you're going to feel bad about yourself for playing it lol.

JohnnyfnB · Postby **JohnnyfnB** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:01 pm

I'm not sold on YP. I tried him out, Guttersnipe and then SFD. All 3 of those cards in the correct game can be a back breaker. The thing is most of the posts in this thread have said, that they don't have an EtB effect and were too slow to consider. Hell, most people have removed SFD completely. Of course, playing them later, so you can play a burner afterwards at least gives them some value. I understand the importance of early pressure, I would feel better using VFB over any of them for early pressure and a chump blocker. I would actually feel better adding a 24th land and siding in 2 Stormbreath Dragons. SBD has immediate impact, he has the potential for monstrosity, it is immune to D-Spheres, it blocks/kills/lives against Blood Baron. That card does so many things and is great against so many match ups.

Now I'm really going to piss in some peoples corn flakes. I don't like FDS and think he is a limited
sb card, which is just a win more against control. I don't play him or like him. We could benefit from other cards for our tougher match ups, but to each his own. I respect peoples opinions and I'm all about play testing, even crazy ideas.

I was happy to see that in the Seattle Top 16 there were 4 R/W variants. If that becomes a common occurrence, our side boards will be morphing on a weekly basis to deal with the hate. That slightly worries me that our side boards will become diluted, as well as our game 2's.

JohnnyfnB · Postby **JohnnyfnB** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:02 pm

Ditto what Lightning_Dolt said.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:07 pm

I consider the deck to be pretty much optimized at this point. I think Ash Zealot is the best two drop for the archetype and the SB feels powerful.

Then again, I've had 70+% winrate with the deck since switching, so I might just be drunk with power. And beer. It's St' Patrick's Day and the last day of school. I may have had a few drinks with dinner.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:40 pm

Felt good to be back.
See, that's EXACTLY where I want to be playing YP$. It just tilts aggro matches so heavily in your favor.

Also, if you switch Ash Zealot for Peezy, you may be able to get away with a fourth Mutavault.
Really? I think it's just going to eat a [card:
uv4plsz3]searing blood[/card] and you're going to feel bad about yourself for playing it lol.

By that logic you shouldn't be playing Mutavault.

It's not something you run out on turn two in the mirror. You play it on turn four with burn in hand.

For the record, I've actually burned my own Phoenix with a Shock in response to Searing Blood in the mirror (I was actually playing my PyroBlack list, so pseudo-mirror) just so he couldn't do damage to me. It was late in the game and I was at 7, but it's a legitimate counter to the card, especially if said opponent has a Phoenix in the yard. I ended up winning that game at three life.

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:41 pm

I'd be very interested in trying out YP$ main and Ash Zealot SB. Swap them out 1:1 in small aggro matches and potentially against U based control as well.

I like YP$ in the GR/Jund Monsters matchup. A lot. They only have 4 Ghor-Clans (some lists run fewer), and I'm seeing more and more people hold him to play as a creature anyway, thinking our burn can't hit it (hello Helix). But the ability of YP's tokens to brick the onslaught of their attacks while we focus fire their dome is just tremendous. Polukranos can obviously be a blowout, but I think we all know to do our best to get rid of him immediately anyway.

I've been running this list on MODO recently, trying to get a good feel for it. I know that 2-mans have low EV, but I wanted them for the practice, not the prizes, so giving up 2x tix was ok. Here's my record so far:

Opp Deck Games Won Games Lost Matches Won Matches Lost Total Games Total Matches
Game Win % Match Win %

Tournament Practice Room
Esper Control 2 0 1 0 2 1 100.00% 100.00%
Jund Monsters 5 4 2 1 9 3 55.56% 66.67%
MBD 7 3 3 1 10 4 70.00% 75.00%
Mirror 2 0 1 0 2 1 100.00% 100.00%
Rakdos Aggro 2 0 1 0 2 1 100.00% 100.00%
Reanimator 2 0 1 0 2 1 100.00% 100.00%
G/W Aggro 1 2 0 1 3 1 33.33% 0.00%
Naya Aggro 2 1 1 0 3 1 66.67% 100.00%

2-Mans
Mirror (mono R w/ Cackler and BTE) 0 2 0 1 2 1 0.00% 0.00%
U/w Devotion 4 1 2 0 5 2 80.00% 100.00%

Disregard that silly mirror loss. I was up really late, playing very sloppy, and got incredibly greedy. In both games I should have focused on controlling his board rather than letting little guys peck away at me. I know it has Cackler and BTE, but he also had main deck Skullcrack and lots of burn. I think he was using BTE to get a body on the board while still burning on T2.

Again, all this is just practice so far. Next step is to enter 8-mans and dailies when I'm able. My job is ending soon so that may be
possible in the near future, though I'll still have school at night. I'm running the stock 60 (3 guildgates and 3 vaults) and this is my board:
[deck]
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Blind Obedience
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Spark Trooper
3 Viashino Firstblade
3 Satyr Firedancer
[/deck]

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:45 pm

Felt good to be back.
See, that's EXACTLY where I want to be playing YP$. It just tilts aggro matches so heavily in your favor.

Also,
if you switch Ash Zealot for Peezy, you may be able to get away with a fourth Mutavault.
Really? I think it's just going to eat a searing blood and you're going to feel bad about yourself for playing it lol.
By that logic you shouldn't be playing Mutavault.

It's not something you run out on turn two in the mirror. You play it on turn four with burn in hand.

For the record, I've actually burned my own Phoenix with a Shock in response to Searing Blood in the mirror (I was actually playing my PyroBlack list, so pseudo-mirror) just so he couldn't do damage to me. It was late in the game and I was at 7, but it's a legitimate counter to the card, especially if said opponent has a Phoenix in the yard. I ended up winning that game at three life.

I don't like activating mutavault unless their mana is tapped.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:49 pm

Yeah same here, unless I have the soul read. Or I know its only Lightning Strike.

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:49 pm

For the record, I've actually burned my own Phoenix with a Shock in response to Searing Blood in the mirror (I was actually playing my PyroBlack list, so pseudo-mirror) just so he couldn't do damage to me. It was late in the game and I was at 7, but it's a legitimate counter to the card, especially if said opponent has a Phoenix in the yard. I ended up winning that game at three life.

I had a mirror match where I was at 2 and he was at around 10. He targeted my Phoenix with Searing Blood, and in response I Warleader Helix'd my Phoenix. I went on to win the game.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:50 pm

Yes, I can see into my opponent's soul and know that they know true fear.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:50 pm

[img]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c353/ ... ee696e.jpg[/img:
l12ga8jt]

Felt good to be back.
See, that's EXACTLY where I want to be playing YP$. It just tilts aggro matches so heavily in your favor.

Also, if you switch Ash Zealot for Peezy, you may be able to get away with a fourth Mutavault.
Really? I think it's just going to eat a searing blood and you're going to feel bad about yourself for playing it lol.
By that logic you shouldn't be playing Mutavault.

It's not something you run out on turn two in the mirror. You play it on turn four with burn in hand.

For the record, I've actually burned my own Phoenix with a Shock in response to Searing Blood in the mirror (I was actually playing my PyroBlack list, so pseudo-mirror) just so he couldn't do damage to me. It was late in the game and I was at 7, but it's a legitimate counter to the card, especially if said opponent has a Phoenix in the yard. I ended up winning that game at three life.
I don't like activating mutavault unless their mana is tapped.

That should rarely happen in the mirror.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:51 pm

Mutavault isn't great in the mirror. Kinda feels good to have that extra white source though.

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:53 pm

Well, sometimes you run it out there on purpose to bait out a kill spell. Against mono black too.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:57 pm

Anyway, because I know that the guests are dying to know.

[deck=Zemanjaski's Boros Burn as at 1:54am on 18-March-14]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments
2 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Lands
3 Boros Guildgate
9 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:01 pm

Z, are you swapping a Guildgate for the Mutavault when you bring in YP$? If so, are you bringing in other white cards at the same time, and does that impact your ability to hit the white you need? Going from 11 to 10 white sources may not be a big deal, but if you're also bringing in VFB, BlOb, and the extra 2 Chained it may be cumbersome. Something to test and see I guess.

I'm going to test 4YP$ main, 4 Ash Zealot side. I'll probably leave the landbase as is and instead of an extra land in the board I'll keep 1x Spark Trooper. So good against Monsters, which is a 50/50 matchup.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:06 pm

Anyway, because I know that the guests are dying to know.

[deck=Zemanjaski's Boros Burn as at 1:54am on 18-March-14]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments
2 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Lands
3 Boros Guildgate
9 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

I fully approve of this 75. Looks awesome.

Also, I can't believe
just how good Searing Blood is. It's almost like we get to play Searing Blaze in Standard. ALMOST. My initial evaluation of the card was a little off. I figured it'd be a decent sideboard card. I didn't realize just how good it was in combination with the other burn spells.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:15 pm

Z, are you swapping a Guildgate for the Mutavault when you bring in YP$? If so, are you bringing in other white cards at the same time, and does that impact your ability to hit the white you need? Going from 11 to 10 white sources may not be a big deal, but if you're also bringing in VFB, BlOb, and the extra 2 Chained it may be cumbersome. Something to test and see I guess.

I'm going to test 4YP$ main, 4 Ash Zealot side. I'll probably leave the landbase as is and instead of an extra land in the board I'll keep 1x Spark Trooper. So good against Monsters, which is a 50/50 matchup.

Nah, Mutavault is for when I want to go to 24 land against control. Hitting 4 land quickly is SO IMPORTANT there; so switching 1x Shock for 1x Mutavault is such
a big upgrade; after all, Mutavault becomes repeatable Shock later anyway.

zenbitz · Postby **zenbitz** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:23 pm

I think if we play YP we should main deck it and cut zealot. Unless it's actually worth 4 slots just to confuse them g2/g3? I guess AZ would take over the FDS slot anyway.

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:34 pm

Z, are you swapping a Guildgate for the Mutavault when you bring in YP$? If so, are you bringing in other white cards at the same time, and does that impact your ability to hit the white you need? Going from 11 to 10 white sources may not be a big deal, but if you're also bringing in VFB, BlOb, and the extra 2 Chained it may be cumbersome. Something to test and see I guess.

I'm going to test 4YP$ main, 4 Ash Zealot side. I'll probably leave the landbase as is and instead of an extra land in the board I'll keep 1x Spark Trooper. So good against Monsters, which is a 50/50 matchup.
n
Nah, Mutavault is for when I want to go to 24 land against control. Hitting 4 land quickly is SO IMPORTANT there; so switching 1x Shock for 1x Mutavault is such a big upgrade; after all, Mutavault becomes repeatable Shock later anyway.

ah, ok. that makes perfect sense.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:35 pm

Ash Zealot aligns with our game 1 plan much better than YP$

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:44 pm

ABSOLUTELY AGREE.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:19 pm

me too.

zenbitz · Postby **zenbitz** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:51 pm

OK, you are making strategic sense with the AZ/YP G1/G2 swap.

Probably someone put crack in my coffee this morning... but what if we go YP+Firedancer (3?) vs. anyone with creatures and get maximum value out of every spell? Plus it overloads removal.

I also like the possibility of getting value out of enchantment hate from YP$.

Jonnymagic · Postby **Jonnymagic** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:27 pm

Hooray back on the YP wagon! Love that guy! I didn't really get that much value out of SFD. I'm still running and loving wear/tear though. Im tempted like Z to run glaring spotlight, because I'm tired of playing that matchup. I've won ONE game vs hexproof and its because I baited him into attacking me with lifegain, wear/teared his lifegain enchant, and he died on the crackback. It's such a miserable matchup. I've also gone off sparky, now that I know the g/r matchup better. It was good while we were learning the matchup and the lines, but it really was just making up for the fact we didn't know how to play against it properly.

Toddington · Postby **Toddington** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:38 pm

I've also gone off sparky, now that I know the g/r matchup better. It was good while we were learning the matchup and the lines, but it really was just making up for the fact we didn't know how to play against it properly.

How do you play against it properly, from someone who has only played a little against G/R? Is it a feel thing? I always underestimate how quick they can kill out of nowhere.

JohnnyfnB · Postby **JohnnyfnB** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:52 pm

I've also gone off sparky, now that I know the g/r matchup better. It was good while we were learning the matchup and the lines, but it really was just making up for the fact we didn't know how to play against it properly.
How do you play against it properly, from someone who has only played a little against G/R? Is it a feel thing? I always underestimate how quick they can kill out of nowhere.

Especially if SFD is in your sb or out of your deck completely.

Jonnymagic · Postby **Jonnymagic** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:01 pm

MY main list is slightly different than a few others here, and I have 3 chains main deck. I bring in the other chains, I bring in wear/tear which functions as another chains against courser, and yes I have used it succesfully every game I've drawn it. I haven't once wanted it to be a burn spell. It has also occasionally killed the s/b bow of nylea, mortars, blind obedience, and take out boros charms and skullcrack. On the play the matchup (for me) is much easier, as you play it as a tempo game rather than a burn race. You sb their elf, chain/wear/tear courser and fling a burn, chain their polu, and then beat in with phoenix/last few burn. I used to try to only race, and *occasionally* you can yahtzee and just melt their face off with no interaction -- but the tempo game is much better vs them. A late game scooze can be an issue, but you have to try to bait them into trying to exile a creature and responding to it with a
burn so you can kill it.

cloudscraper · Postby **cloudscraper** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:14 pm

Zem, what are you cutting in the matchups where you were NOT bringing it firedrinker but are indeed bringing it young peezy?

Is it ok to cut down on mediocre burn spells against green based aggro / midrange or monoblue to add young peezies?

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:36 pm

After 4 events MDU, has cutting the 4th AZ in favor of BO been worth it?

Yes, I've never been unhappy to hit BO (granted I only hit it once during G1 and it was against UW Control) in which my Opp. let it resolved only to get beaten down my mutavaults later because elsepth token citpt - he Dshperes soon after that....

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I can't cut the Firedrinker Satyr from the SB because I can't shake the mindset that UWx is a hard MU - I have nothing against YP though (I even squeezed it into RB aggro at one stage).

Dies to Removal

[Primer] Boros Burn

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