[Primer] PyroRed

[zemanjaski]

I just like the idea of hitting for 5 in the air with Phoenix, that's a quick clock.

[Valdarith]

Indeed. Lightning Bolt with buyback is good.

[magicdownunder]

I just like the idea of hitting for 5 in the air with Phoenix, that's a quick clock.

Always fun , I've been using him as my T3 play more often these days mainly due to R/x/x running rampant - its nice dealing damage with out over committing the board.

P.S. I like how our deck ideas seems to be going in the same directions

[zemanjaski]

I'm might be weaker to Loxodon Smiter now, but I'm not sure how relevant that is. Zealot + burn might be better than FFS anyway.

[Pedros]

@Zemanjaski

No love for Walter White Shell? Not worth splashing only for chained to the rocks?

[Link]

ash zealot is better vs. seles charm and boon satyr, so its not life FFS was a strict upgrade. he was easier to cast with mtuavaults but you got 19 mountains now

[Link]

I just like the idea of hitting for 5 in the air with Phoenix, that's a quick clock.

hehahahhaHAHAH we'll make our OWN thundermaw, wizards!

[Keftenk]

I have the most awful time SBing now that I have Pyrewild Shaman in my list ;;
I used to just side out 4 Cacklers 4 Satyrs for a lot of match ups (depending on what I was up against of course), but now...ijdk...

[zemanjaski]

@Zemanjaski

No love for Walter White Shell? Not worth splashing only for chained to the rocks?

Well I did pioneer it but right now I'm enjoying Mutavault too much. I'm not finding I strictly need Chained, so I prefer to get by without the splash if possible. I seem to keep missing GR Ramp which is the deck I most want Chained against, so I just don't have the motivation to splash.

In my sideboard, 1 Burning Earth or 1 Hammer of Purphoros; discuss!

Rest would be:

3 Act of Treason
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Frostburn Weird
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack

+1 of Burning Earth / Hammer (4th Skullcrack?)

[Valdarith]

The only deck I want BE against is Esper and we already destroy them. Hammer has a much broader range of applications ranging from the mirror to control matchups.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Hammer can help with mono-u, esper, and mono-r aggro, while BE helps with esper, naya, and other rogue 3-colors (and technically mazes end I guess...)

At the moment, I think hammer is better overall, but if the meta shifts some with naya control becoming a major thing, then BE could become a better meta-choice.

At my lgs for instance, theres so much naya and dega floating around, that BE would be a better choice. Speaking of which, i need to get some more, sold my playset on accident e.e (thought I had more)

[magicdownunder]

The only deck I want BE against is Esper and we already destroy them. Hammer has a much broader range of applications ranging from the mirror to control matchups.

Junk and Dega says hi, wood's Junk list esp. needs answers against so I predict that is what BE is for.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah I already romp control, having a free-win card for the shard decks (any of them) seems great.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Yeah I already romp control, having a free-win card for the shard decks (any of them) seems great.

I'm a stickler for draw consistency, and I tend to loathe playing single copies of anything...
Is there anyway to fit 2 BEs into the sideboard, ya think?

[zemanjaski]

I don't see why you worry about singletons, that's the real issue lol.

[Link]

problem I have with BE is it doesn't feel liek a free win unless you were already ahead. then it basically seals the day. So instead of "win more" its more like "win defintiely" if ahead.

but you can get behind on board state against the shard decks.... can you push damage through reckoner draws on Dega with BE in hand? Plant into smiter draws against junk?

and do you want to warp your boarding plan to be "play pure control, resolve BE, excpet to win" so that they can't get ahead of you on board? What if they have golgari charm or w/e?

Chandra's just a better 4-drop all the time and you can't afford to mess with your curve that much (imo at all) against midrange decks.

I mean a 1-of is fine, but a 2-of (especially if you're cutting into any of the other tech which I really always want) definitely seems pushing it. I'd more want the 4th skullcrack because at least THEN you can bait
some blood baron swings or just upgrade all your shocks against control etc.

[RaidaTheBlade]

I don't see why you worry about singletons, that's the real issue lol.

I dunno, it's just a thing. If there's a card that good enough to play, then usually I'd like to be able to see it on a regular basis. Specially sideboard when the cards you pull in are pretty important...

I mean, it's not a massive issue to run 1, but if it's worth running, then I'd like to try and get it to where I see it an okay amount

[magicdownunder]

problem I have with BE is it doesn't feel liek a free win unless you were already ahead. then it basically seals the day. So instead of "win more" its more like "win defintiely" if ahead.

but you can get behind on board state against the shard decks.... can you push damage through reckoner draws on Dega with BE in hand? Plant into smiter draws against junk?

and do you want to warp your boarding plan to be "play pure control, resolve BE, excpet to win" so that they can't get ahead of you on board? What if they have golgari charm or w/e?

Chandra's just a better 4-drop all the time and you can't afford to mess with your curve that much (imo at all) against midrange decks.

I mean a 1-of is fine, but a 2-of (especially if you're
cutting into any of the other tech which I really always want) definitely seems pushing it. I'd more want the 4th skullcrack because at least THEN you can bait some blood baron swings or just upgrade all your shocks against control etc.

I see where your coming from, Dega isn't a bad MU esp. for the PyroRed list - but against Wood's Junk list from the PyroRed pov its very easy to get ahead and just lose because they have such a strong curve (which is punished by shock lands) BE on turn4 will seal the deal vs them, BE will most likely do more work then Chandra in that MU - because once they stabilize your as good as dead anyways.

EDIT: Running singleton of anything 4cc or more is fine in RDW because you'll often won't be able to cast it until late in the game anyways

[notap123]

So I went to FNM with every intention of playing Pyrored but being that I haven't played for a couple of years my friends badgered me relentlessly into going with devo red. Their main points were that Firedrinker and YP don't work. They kept going on tangents about jackal pup worked then and not now because of pit fight abilities/burn being too prevalent and YP doesn't work like it does in legacy due to the lack of free spells. Is there any merit to what they were saying? I feel like I should have just gave the deck a whirl but in hind sight I placed 3rd. I lost to GRW ramp, both games played the same way: carytid into reckoner into domri pit fighting me down with reckoner 2 for 1 mode.

x4 Reckoner
x4 Ashely
x4 BTE
x4 FFS
x4 Cackler
x4 Fanatic
x4 Phoenix
x4 Lightning Strike
x4 Magma Jet
x2 Shock
x2 Mutavault
x20 Mountain

[Khaospawn]

Your friends don't know what they're talking about.

[Zooligan]

They kept going on tangents about jackal pup worked then and not now because of pit fight abilities/burn being too prevalent and YP doesn't work like it does in legacy due to the lack of free spells. Is there any merit to what they were saying?

Seems to me against the black-based destroy / sacrifice removal, Satyr is fine. Totally great to pay R to get in a couple or more points damage and suck up a Doom Blade or something.

Just side it out against red direct damage, or green if they can force you to fight a 8/8 fatty or something.

[notap123]

Your friends don't know what they're talking about.

Ye for the better part of an hour I was defending a point of rounding out the curve perfectly as an aggro deck and the loss of life from firedrinker is negligible. I definitely felt not having firdrinker against caryatid. I did however cracke up on a mogis for 6 and a mogis for 7 back to back against the jund player.

As far as YP I didn't have much of an argument mostly because I think reckoner in our meta seems like the better choice due to the amount of aggro/ramp i saw floating around. There was literary only 1 MBC and it was half thrown together.

[magicdownunder]

Your friends don't know what they're talking about.

Ye for the better part of an hour I was defending a point of rounding out the curve perfectly as an aggro deck and the loss of life from firedrinker is negligible. I definitely felt not having firdrinker against caryatid. I did however cracke up on a mogis for 6 and a mogis for 7 back to back against the jund player.

As far as YP I didn't have much of an argument mostly because I think reckoner in our meta seems like the better choice due to the amount of
aggro/ramp i saw floating around. There was literary only 1 MBC and it was half thrown together.

Your playing R FoM in a ramp heavy meta with limited Black? I'll say you're doing it right - heck I'll recommend Big Boros for that meta game.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Decided to give Walter white another go at a side event after scrubbing out of my GPT with Boros Devotion (report here if you care: http://community.ist.utl.pt/viewtopic.p ... 98#p134898)

I played this list:

[deck]Creatures:20
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells:17
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands:23
14 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard:15
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Assemble the Legion
3 Skullcrack[/deck]

Note the lack of mutavaults, I forgot to put them in when I changed my deck and realized halfway
through R1:G2

Round 1 VS Forum Member Solemn10 with PyroRakdos

G1: I mull to 6 and he's on the play. He beats me down in convincing fashion.

G2: I draw (because I read Z's article on playing as the control deck) and the game is close, but I squeak it out.

G3: Another very close attrition based game, but he has vaults and I don't. He eventually just gets me.

0-1-0

Round 2 VS Furuichi with U/W

G1: I beat down and the game ends on T8.

G2: He's on 1 life, no cards in hand, and top decks a Rev with with 10 lands in play. I knock him back to two life, he revs again. Then a third time, then a forth time.

G3: I'm tilting a little bit, but not too bad. He just has all the cards and smokes me while I flood up to 10 lands.

0-2-0

Round 3 VS BYE because you suck too much to play the third round

1-2-0

I've had last round BYE 3x in the last two weeks. Feels bad man. My hot
streak has evaporated. Can't even with my U/W matches

[Helios]

Z: I like that list a lot. Mutavault + Shaman after Esper has 1-for-1'd you seems disgusting. With regards to Ash Zealot, I'd rather have the haste and fs over the BTE + FFS (which is part of the reason I've been playing Walter White still...not as many bad top decks). Adding in Shaman just puts that value through the roof. Haste is super relevant against every deck right now.

Re: Burning Earth v. Shard lists- it's the Assemble the Legion of mono red (though not quite as free winny). I'd play it over Hammer, because Abrupt decay is very much a thing. Plus Naya won't bring in Wear // Tear because you don't have Chained.

Re: Flames v. Elspeth- Ok, ok, I get it Flames from sb v. Esper = no no.

JS: Sorry to hear that man; I think this is just a bad run though, and you should keep your chin up. Shit happens.

vundo: You are quite
welcome! Anyone who will write such a lengthy report at 3 am is fine in my book.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Z: I like that list a lot. Mutavault + Shaman after Esper has 1-for-1'd you seems disgusting. With regards to Ash Zealot, I'd rather have the haste and fs over the BTE + FFS (which is part of the reason I've been playing Walter White still...not as many bad top decks). Adding in Shaman just puts that value through the roof. Haste is super relevant against every deck right now.

Re: Burning Earth v. Shard lists- it's the Assemble the Legion of mono red (though not quite as free winny). I'd play it over Hammer, because Abrupt decay is very much a thing. Plus Naya won't bring in Wear // Tear because you don't have Chained.

Re: Flames v. Elspeth- Ok, ok, I get it Flames
from sb v. Esper = no no.

JS: Sorry to hear that man; I think this is just a bad run though, and you should keep your chin up. Shit happens.

vundo: You are quite welcome! Anyone who will write such a lengthy report at 3 am is fine in my book.

Shit does happen. I had an insane streak at the beginning of the season, so I guess this balances it out. I was kind of hoping I had leveled up though...

[Helios]

Always remember that Brian motherfuckin Kibler went 1-5 at PT Dublin.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Always remember that Brian motherfuckin Kibler went 1-5 at PT Dublin.

Didn't know that.

[zemanjaski]

Kibler scrubs out all the time lol.

[Helios]

Doesn't he always try to play some meta deck and just storm the event? From what I've scene is one of the pros who is actually an excellent player.

[zemanjaski]

No he usually plays a pet deck and does poorly. He's an elite player though for sure.

[DerWille]

Against Esper: I usually side out my Chained to the Rocks when I go against Esper. It misses Aetherling, Blood Baron of Vizkopa, and Obzedat, Ghost Council which are basically the only things they have worse chaining. I'm not sure if you run Assemble the Legion and Hammer of Purphoros like I do, but I'd side something like

OUT: -2 Chained to the Rocks, -2 [card]Shock[/
card]
IN: +2 Boros Charm, +1 Assemble the Legion, +1 Hammer of Purphoros

I prefer hammer over assemble because making every card you draw live with haste is usually enough to completely overwhelm an esper deck. If you're only running one of those two in your sideboard, just take out 1 shockinstead.

I did side out my Chained, derped when reporting. Assemble v. Esper is too dicey, you're banking on them not having a counterspell / Jace / D-sphere, and it's a dead card for so long when you need to draw damage. Hammer is fine but it isn't in my SB, I'm really comfortable with this match-up. Nor is Boros Charm, for the same reason. As much as I hate to say it, Skullcrack shines here- now that they aren't playing Thragtusks and Sphinx's, you can hold it for the inevitable Revelation and win the game.

None of that has really been an
issue. Take a look at it this way:

D-Sphere - PyroWhite has too many targets for them to go after. Chandra's Phoenix, Young Pyromancer tokens, 2 of any card you play, Chandra, Hammer, and Assemble the Legion. Often times you can force out a D-Sphere by curving out. Even if they do D-Sphere the Legion, that's 1 less D-Sphere to worry about for the rest of your cards.

Jace - Yeah, he does negate the tokens entirely and they're running 4 of him. I haven't had this be a problem because in 80% of my games, I kill him after his first activation. 2 2 power creatures + Lightning Strike or 3 2 power creatures + Shock/Magma Jet usually handles him.

Counter Spells - Yeah, these kill about everything, but most control lists run 3 dissolve and that's about it. I haven't any problems with this.

I think you have a point about Boros Charm though. I really do not care about Supreme Verdict in 80% of my games. Phoenixes come back, Chandra gets me more cards, and I'm not stupid and run 10 power onto the
field. I'd rather just stop the life gain than do an extra point of damage or protect from verdict.
---
I really wish I had 1 slot open somewhere to have 1 hammer main board. Hammer + Chandra is fucking ridiculous.

[Helios]

tl;dr for me on Assemble is that it's only worth the effort if it is a free win. Against esper it isn't a free win, so I don't bother.

[magicdownunder]

tl;dr for me on Assemble is that it's only worth the effort if it is a free win. Against esper it isn't a free win, so I don't bother.

Agreed 100%

Here is my 2nd last video report running this list:

[deck=MDU's Australian Winter ]Lands 22
12x Mountain
04x Sacred Foundry
04x Temple of Triumph
02x Mutavault

Creatures 22
04x Firedrinker Satyr
04x Rakdos Cackler
04x Burning-Tree Emissary
03x Firefist Striker
03x Young Pyromancer
04x Chandra's Phoenix

Planeswalkers 02
02x Chandra, Pyromaster

Enchantments 02
02x Chained to the Rocks

Pew Pew 12
04x Lightning Strike
04x Magma Jet
03x Shock
01x Flames of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
04x Boros Reckoner
02x Skullcrack
02x Boros Charm
02x Chained to the Rocks
02x
Mizzium Mortars
02x Fanatic of Mogis
01x Flames of the Firebrand[/deck]

The event was: Standard Daily Event 6210718 (4-0)

G1: GBW Reanimator
G2: RDW AiR
G3: Esper Control
G4: Split for win

Testing with my new list is going well (you can find it if you go a few pages back) I made one change in the SB for -Flames of the Firebrand 1x, +Rod of Ruin 1x - I couldn't bring myself to run 02x Last breath.

[Helios]

It amuses me to no end that you won't run Last Breath, but you will play Rod of Ruin. (I totally get your reasoning, it's just so counterintuitive when you look at the cards).

[magicdownunder]

It amuses me to no end that you won't run Last Breath, but you will play Rod of Ruin. (I totally get your reasoning, it's just so counterintuitive when you look at the cards).

I find my Chains being R.B way too often now, I figured Rod of Ruin kills at least 12 creatures in their deck so I might as well .

EDIT: **** it, I'll just toss in the Last Breath in the next DE - at least this way I can do silly stuff like Last Breath'ing a YP$ token during the mirror.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I've been starting to think about cutting Mizzium Mortars... How much do we really need it?

[Lightning_Dolt]

I mean, obviously Blood Baron of Vitzkopa, but we might be able to just double burn him in a pinch.

[zemanjaski]

There isn't a Blood Baron deck where you bring in Mortars; it's in the list for mono red and GW where you do need it.

[magicdownunder]

There isn't a Blood Baron deck where you bring in Mortars; it's in the list for mono red and GW where you do need it.

Fairly sure BW midrange is a deck and Esper tends to have a few in the boards, so running 02x Mortars in those game are fine since its not like we want an active Blood Baron in play.